Promises are broken everyday in the world. We DON"T know the specifics of any agreement. At this point LaRoche is a journeyman player on the very end of his lucrative career. No one would be taking on that contract in the strong likelihood he shits the bed. Again, NO ONE forced Adam to walk away. He wanted it all on his terms or not at all. He decided he didn't want to compromise. People are making this a big deal because he put his kid ahead of $13 MM and the team. It was a unique situation that ran it's course. Nothing more, nothing less. He walked away. That's fine. No one has a problem with that part. His choice.Why would LaRoche "do well" to go away without his money, if Williams is breaking a promise? Why would you expect a co-worker like Sale to worry about "helping the situation" in a union context?
We don't know all the facts, but it seems likely that Williams made an ill-considered promise, then went back on it. Im not sure why LaRoche, Sale, or any other player should be ok with that, unless you think players in general should grovel before their masters with gratitude that they're paid handsomely to play a game.
It's Sale that has blown this story up into something bigger with an emotional reaction and that's fine too but at the end of the day, the game will go on and Sale, I guarantee you will continue to collect his check. He's not walking and he's not winning this battle.If other players were unhappy about it, Williams was better of confronting this issue now than some time later in the season. You can't put players in the position of having to confront a majority of their peers, and for a team that has played below .500 for the last three years, I'm thinking that there might be players and coaches genuinely stressing about their futures. What if some of those guys find the kid being there all the time to be a distraction?
It's nice for Sale to get all emotional about it, but he's an elite player who doesn't have much to worry about career-wise. At least not for the moment.
If there is something in LaRoche's contract about this arrangement, then yeah, I agree with you that Williams should have known it would become a union issue. Barring that, I don't know that Williams should have anticipated this big blow up before he first talked to LaRoche.LaRoche walked away -- it sounds like he had to be prodded into filing a grievance.
The issue is that other players have taken up his cause. In a union shop, and especially on a club where ownership has been notoriously anti-union for a long time (Reinsdorf might be MLB's most hated man), it's not surprising that this incident has become a flashpoint. Williams should've seen this coming and handled the situation differently.
I'd guess that the timing might be related to when complaint(s) reached Williams.I still find the timing curious. Why not address it towards the beginning of spring training or even in the offseason?
Has this been building in just the last couple weeks?
Heck, signed contracts are broken everyday. Often it's just a business decision.Promises are broken everyday in the world. We DON"T know the specifics of any agreement. At this point LaRoche is a journeyman player on the very end of his lucrative career. No one would be taking on that contract in the strong likelihood he shits the bed. Again, NO ONE forced Adam to walk away. He wanted it all on his terms or not at all. He decided he didn't want to compromise. People are making this a big deal because he put his kid ahead of $13 MM and the team. It was a unique situation that ran it's course. Nothing more, nothing less. He walked away. That's fine. No one has a problem with that part. His choice.
John Henry should ban pizzaToo bad Sandoval didn't have his kid hanging around the clubhouse every day.
From this article, it appears that Williams was the fall guy for the White Sox and that he only told LaRoche to dial it back with Drake after players and staff members complained about it.I still find the timing curious. Why not address it towards the beginning of spring training or even in the offseason?
And while the early evidence frames this as a Williams vs. LaRoche battle over clubhouse time for LaRoche’s son, multiple baseball officials with direct knowledge of the Adam LaRoche brouhaha told USA TODAY Sports a different tale.
Several players and staff members privately complained to White Sox management recently about the constant presence of LaRoche’s 14-year-old son, Drake, in the clubhouse. Drake LaRoche, multiple people say, was with the team about 120 games during the 2015 season.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/bob-nightengale/2016/03/18/adam-laroche-drake-laroche-kenny-williams/81993428/Certainly, if the White Sox wanted to scale back Drake’s presence, someone should have told LaRoche during the winter. It at least should have been addressed before spring training.
Instead, it wasn’t until Williams heard complaints, sat down with LaRoche, and told him to scale back his son’s presence in camp. He could still come to camp and be in the clubhouse, but perhaps just half the time. Certainly, not every day.
Well, after their heart-to-heart talk, nothing changed, according to multiple people in White Sox camp.
LaRoche kept bringing his son to the ballpark every day. This went on for at least three or four days. When Williams saw Drake on the field this week, in the middle of a practice drill, standing on the pitcher’s mound, he lost it.
And if this doesn't die down soon and Chris Sale doesn't let it go, it will be a Shit Show of an Opening Day. Ventura won't survive it.The only aspect of this saga that is completely clear to me is that Robin Ventura has no control over his clubhouse. He should have dealt with this one way or the other. Given his terrible W-L record as a manager, I have no idea why Ventura still has this job.
It's fine that you disagree with how this is being reported, but I don't get how you move from there to saying that "LaRoche is being a dick."And if this doesn't die down soon and Chris Sale doesn't let it go, it will be a Shit Show of an Opening Day. Ventura won't survive it.
Glad the USA Today article showed a little more of both sides. LaRoche was kind of being a dick about the whole thing. Can't believe he's being made out to be a martyr. File the papers already.
Maybe players tried to go to Ventura, who said he couldn't do much because it was a contractual issue and would have to be brought to Williams?The only aspect of this saga that is completely clear to me is that Robin Ventura has no control over his clubhouse. He should have dealt with this one way or the other. Given his terrible W-L record as a manager, I have no idea why Ventura still has this job.
He's the home-schooling type, even if he didn't play baseball. I'll be honest, I'm fully inclined to side against LaRoche here, not just because I think he comes off poorly, but because of the type of person he is. He's of the Duck Dynasty demographic. His kid is probably a total piece of shit.I hadn't really followed anything about this story except to say: he wasn't sending his kid to school at all? What the fuck?
Not everyone with some home schooling background is part of the 'Duck Dynasty demographic'. For someone who has virtually unlimited money to throw at the problem, it's easy to believe the kid isn't missing out on the education front at least. There are plenty of other opportunities for socialization in life. In short, we don't know jack or shit, but your sympathy seems quite easily lost on the basis of one thin fact. How charitable.He's the home-schooling type, even if he didn't play baseball. I'll be honest, I'm fully inclined to side against LaRoche here, not just because I think he comes off poorly, but because of the type of person he is. He's of the Duck Dynasty demographic. His kid is probably a total piece of shit.
And it's easy to say that LaRoche was being a dick. Apparently he was asked to scale it back and totally ignored the request. Then when that topic was revisited, he took his ball and went home. No sympathy. Bye.
Yeah, I'm generalizing about home-schooled kids, but the LaRoches ARE of that demographic.Not everyone with some home schooling background is part of the 'Duck Dynasty demographic'. For someone who has virtually unlimited money to throw at the problem, it's easy to believe the kid isn't missing out on the education front at least. There are plenty of other opportunities for socialization in life. In short, we don't know jack or shit, but your sympathy seems quite easily lost on the basis of one thin fact. How charitable.
I will admit that my sarcasm detector is malfunctioning these days, but please tell me that this is performance art. Because otherwise, you're being an ignorant tool.He's the home-schooling type, even if he didn't play baseball. I'll be honest, I'm fully inclined to side against LaRoche here, not just because I think he comes off poorly, but because of the type of person he is. He's of the Duck Dynasty demographic. His kid is probably a total piece of shit.
And it's easy to say that LaRoche was being a dick. Apparently he was asked to scale it back and totally ignored the request. Then when that topic was revisited, he took his ball and went home. No sympathy. Bye.
Really? Glad you think so. I stand by my opinions and am thrilled to know where you stand, so I don't waste any time on you going forward.I will admit that my sarcasm detector is malfunctioning these days, but please tell me that this is performance art. Because otherwise, you're being an ignorant tool.
Edit: from the post directly above mine, it appears that you were being serious. In which case, you are an unspeakable asshole.
This is a message board. We sometimes engage in hyperbole and rip on people. The comment about his kid was clearly not 100% serious - I obviously don't know this kid at all. Judging by the people who have raised him and the values that they hold, I'm confident that this kid has some horrible opinions (even if it's not his fault). So you're right - I apologize. I don't know that he's a total piece of shit. It's more like a 75% chance that he is.You described a 14 year old kid as "probably a total piece of shit" based on nothing more than your admitted religious/cultural prejudices and your response is to say that "I stand by my opinion."
Please explain how this is different than hating someone because of their race, gender or sexual orientation?
Doesn't seem to speak too well for "most of the players"Manager Robin Ventura told reporters that Drake was more mature than most of the players, and there was no indication that players had complained about him.
No, it doesn't. But specifically, LaRoche and Sale are coming off like petulant children. Do White Sox fans care about this beyond how their players' temper tantrums seem to be sinking the season before it even starts? I suspect Red Sox fans would have zero sympathy for LaRoche (and would be pissed at Sale) if this were a Boston clubhouse issue. These guys have one of the strongest unions on the planet backing them, are multimillionaires, their employment is guaranteed even when they're incredibly awful at their job, and I don't think many people want their coworkers' kids around every moment of the workday anyway. Beyond that, how many fans can relate to giving up $12M because they can't be around their kid constantly at work? Especially when in six months the job will evaporate and they could spend as much time as they want with the kid. This whole thing reminds me of Phil Mickelson complaining publicly about taxes--so wildly out of touch. The big difference being that the PGA Tour had the sense to convince him to shut his mouth.Doesn't seem to speak too well for "most of the players"
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/19/sports/baseball/for-adam-laroche-the-father-son-bond-proves-stronger-than-the-game.html?contentCollection=weekendreads&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=c-column-middle-span-region®ion=c-column-middle-span-region&WT.nav=c-column-middle-span-region&_r=0
I hadn't really followed anything about this story except to say: he wasn't sending his kid to school at all? What the fuck?
Edit: Nevermind, from reading rest of thread, appears to be some weird homeschooling thing with 6mo in a baseball clubhouse. Still odd.
Once again, I feel it needs to be pointed out that Drake LaRoche is not home-schooled, at least not full time. During the off-season, when Adam LaRoche is home and not traveling around playing baseball for a living, Drake attends a public school like a "normal" kid. With LaRoche retiring, I'd bet good money Drake will go back to his public school full time rather than be privately tutored or home schooled.He's the home-schooling type, even if he didn't play baseball.
I think where dad works is probably a big part of this.What's lost in this is that there is a 14 YO boy that wants to spend that much time with his father. I, for one, am incredibly jealous of that.
My quote was "kind of being a dick". When approached by Williams about this and scaling back even after LaRoche said he would if it ever was a problem, he blew Williams completely off. So basically he told his boss "Fuck you, I changed my mind and I'll do what I want to do". That's where this initially blew up three days later when he saw Drake on the mound. In the real world and probably most other club houses, this wouldn't fly. So Williams had a hard line stance to that and then the fun began. So yeah, I'll stand by my quote. I also stand by my quotes that LaRoche is entitled to retire if he doesn't get his way. It was handled poorly by ALL involved. If LaRoche had done what he initially agreed to, we wouldn't be having this conversation.It's fine that you disagree with how this is being reported, but I don't get how you move from there to saying that "LaRoche is being a dick."
He was asked to cut down the frequency of his son being in the clubhouse. When that response became an edict eliminating clubhouse access, he retired.
He didn't hold a press conference or issue a press release. (The statement in the article above was issued days after the fact because no one had heard anything from LaRoche and he wanted to clarify what happened.) He doesn't seem to have given interviews. He filled out and submitted his retirement papers and left. And because you don't agree with how upset Chris Sale is, this makes LaRoche a dick?
The USA Today article makes it pretty clear that Ken Williams screwed this up from the outset.
I'm not there, but if feels like Williams created the monster by agreeing to provide unlimited access and then caused the situation to blow up by not handling it properly in the end. Regardless of how I might feel about what LaRoche did (and it's more than a bit odd to me) he was only doing what Williams agreed to when he signed.
- They agreed to give Drake LaRoche unlimited clubhouse access, even providing a locker for him.
- They appear to have been aware of complaints from some players last year, but (almost incredibly) didn't address this and/or suggest changes to their agreement with LaRoche until he showed up in camp.
- When LaRoche either ignored Williams' suggestion or didn't move quickly enough to change his routine, Williams appears to have flown off the handle and told LaRoche that his son would lose all access. Which is what prompted LaRoche to retire.
I'll go look for it but he said that if it ever became an issue or a problem, he would address it.What did LaRoche agree to do?
I had not read that. If that's so, then yeah, it changes things quite a bit.I'll go look for it but he said that if it ever became an issue or a problem, he would address it.
That pretty much sums it up. A lot of over reactions but Sale threw gas on the otherwise simmering flames.So he addressed it by retiring, right?
I feel like people are attributing Chris Sale's (overly dramatic, I feel) actions to LaRoche.
And an excellent long-form piece.This whole "Laroche had an agreement" bit means nothing to me. He signed a contract with all his teammates? They all agreed to babysit?
This is where I am.So he addressed it by retiring, right?
I feel like people are attributing Chris Sale's (overly dramatic, I feel) actions to LaRoche. I mean, why should LaRoche play if he doesn't want to, for whatever reason?
I'll admit that I can't relate to LaRoche or the situation, but I don't see how he's being a monster here.“The decision was easy, but in no way was it a reflection of how I feel about my teammates, manager, general manager or the club's owner Jerry Reinsdorf.
“The White Sox organization is full of people with strong values and solid character. My decision to walk away was simply the result of a fundamental disagreement between myself and Ken Williams.’’
He's being a "monster" (and this is a bit too harsh) by putting his club in this position. His boss asked him to scale back his son coming into the clubhouse, he ignored his boss, his boss had to do something so he told him that Drake wasn't allowed in the clubhouse at all. So LaRoche quits and insinuates that the White Sox are not family friendly and does nothing when his former teammates make it sound like the LaRouches were decapitated in the middle of The Cell (is that what people call Comiskey II, I don't know).I'll admit that I can't relate to LaRoche or the situation, but I don't see how he's being a monster here.
That could very well be. But if it was me, I would ask them not to use my son as a martyr for their cause.Maybe. Or Sale (and other members of the team) have had a hard on for Williams for however long, and for whatever reasons, and this is just an excuse to finally bring it to a head.
His statement doesn't read like the high road. He had agreed to address it if people complained. Then when people complained he specifically called out Williams, trying to twist the knife on the way out the door.Furthermore he seemed to want to take the high road and not disparage anyone on the way out the door.
That would pretty much sum up my feelings if I were a Chisox fan. Definitely makes some good points about the likely perspective of journeymen players in the organization towards the presence of a teenager taking up space and time in their workouts - I don't doubt that Williams told LaRoche to dial it back after hearing negative feedback.This seems to sum it up for most on the south side:
http://www.southsidesox.com/2016/3/19/11269960/open-letter-to-white-sox-players
Agreed. I meant on Thursday when this was being thought of as a non-story. He just retired and walked away, Williams seemed cool with it too. Then it blew up and now everyone is covered in shit.His statement doesn't read like the high road. He had agreed to address it if people complained. Then when people complained he specifically called out Williams, trying to twist the knife on the way out the door.
This seems to sum it up for most on the south side:
http://www.southsidesox.com/2016/3/19/11269960/open-letter-to-white-sox-players
Apropos of nothing, one of my favorite bits of trivia is that Adam LaRoche and JD Drew share the same first name. Go forth and amaze your friends.
Justin Gorman thinks that Kenny Williams did what was best for the organization:Williams defended his actions by saying that the White Sox want to reduce the amount of time LaRoche’s son is permitted in the clubhouse by 50 percent, and added that most workplaces don’t allow employees to bring their kids to work. But isn’t one of the most endearing qualities of a general manager staying ahead of the curve on mainstream ideas? The fact that Williams had to throw in the qualifier “most” workplaces indicates that it is done in some venues
JimBoSox9 thinks they're both rational actors in this situation and this is all just a media firestorm:Williams (and by extension, the White Sox front office) has the authority to make the rules. They also have the right to do whatever they can to improve their financial bottom line, as well as make the team more competitive and put the team in the best position to be successful going forward. The front office is the group who have been placed in charge of running the business of the Chicago White Sox – they establish the rules of the workplace.
In order to even have a hot take on the situation as it stands today, you need to rely on facts not in evidence while making assumptions every which way to support your initial argument, like an analysis report written by Ted Wells. We don’t know how united the clubhouse is behind Sale in their opinions. We don’t know what motivated Williams to take action initially. We don’t know anything at all about Drake’s education nor his well-being. We don’t, most critically, know what the level of agreement was initially between Williams and LaRoche (written, verbal, verbal-misunderstanding, or none), and unless it’s inked in the contract it’s unlikely we ever will.
http://www.todaysknuckleball.com/around-the-diamonds/mlb-rumors-rumblings-laroche-situation-should-lead-to-uniform-rules-for-kids-in-the-clubhouse/“It’s a tough situation because Adam is as good as it gets as a teammate and a person and Drake is a great kid who shouldn’t have been dragged into the middle of this whole thing,” the player said. “But it was to the point where it kind of exceeded the limit.
“Drake was out there on the field every day in spring training while we were going through drills. I had no problem with him being in the clubhouse or hanging around the dugout but I think you have to draw the line as far as on-field stuff. That is where the problem came from. That bothered some guys.
“When you’re on the field, it’s time to work.”