Adam LaRoche, his son, Kenny Williams, and retirement

Leather

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I don't think it's really a big deal. I respect the fact that LaRoche didn't make a public stink about it to put pressure on the team and just put his money where his mouth is.

I mean, it really sounds like he just wanted to hang out with his kid more than he wanted to play baseball this year.
 

RG33

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Yeah, I really have no problem with Laroche leaving because he wanted to be with his kids, nor with the White Sox not wanting him to have his kid in the clubhouse EVERY single day. Good luck to him.
 

CaptainLaddie

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I really respect LaRoche. He's made about $71M despite never being close to an elite player (his OPS+ of 111 confirms this), he doesn't need to deal with clubhouse/upper mgmt shit like this.

Good for him. He likes his kids and he's got his grandkids set for life.
 

E5 Yaz

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I really respect LaRoche. He's made about $71M despite never being close to an elite player (his OPS+ of 111 confirms this), he doesn't need to deal with clubhouse/upper mgmt shit like this.
I don't see it as management shit. I think the White Sox let this go on for a while and are now saying they won't have one kid with special standing when the alternative would be having to allow every player's kids the opportunity to have the same access
 

bbc23

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I really respect LaRoche. He's made about $71M despite never being close to an elite player (his OPS+ of 111 confirms this), he doesn't need to deal with clubhouse/upper mgmt shit like this.

Good for him. He likes his kids and he's got his grandkids set for life.
The kid had his own locker apparently and had his life revolve around the clubhouse wherever dad was. It's one thing for him to be around over his Summer break, another for the Laroche family to believe that the clubhouse teaches you more than a school would.

I'm totally with the White Sox, they shouldn't have to deal with that in a professional work environment, it's insane.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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I don't see it as management shit. I think the White Sox let this go on for a while and are now saying they won't have one kid with special standing when the alternative would be having to allow every player's kids the opportunity to have the same access

Agree. I think it's one thing for the guys to bring their kids around once in a while, let them hang out when they're little and during the summer, etc. Letting a guy have his kid around absent from school, for what seems like a large majority of games seems negligent and sets a weird if not dangerous precedent. This wasn't Papi having his son on the field for BP. It seems this was him taking his kid on road trips and being around all the time. It was likely distracting for teammates and also for him. If everyone caught on, there it goes.

In short, fried chicken and beer < clubhouse day care.
 

keninten

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I doubt he missed any school, unless he`s home-schooled. The games are at night and half the season is during the summer. With the team not doing so great maybe the decision was as much on clubhouse chemistry as anything.

Who knows how the kid acted in the clubhouse, maybe like Stilwell.
 

mauidano

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The kid had his own locker apparently and had his life revolve around the clubhouse wherever dad was. It's one thing for him to be around over his Summer break, another for the Laroche family to believe that the clubhouse teaches you more than a school would.

I'm totally with the White Sox, they shouldn't have to deal with that in a professional work environment, it's insane.
Especially for a guy who was literally at the end of his career. No one should make a bigger deal out of this; good for LaRoche and good for the Sox, they keep $13 million. Have a great life LaRoche family! You've earned it. Now, moving on everyone! Let's play some ball.
 

johnmd20

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This story is kind of weird. So Laroche basically never let his kid out of his sight and thinks school is of less value than the clubhouse?
 

Byrdbrain

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I doubt he missed any school, unless he`s home-schooled. The games are at night and half the season is during the summer. With the team not doing so great maybe the decision was as much on clubhouse chemistry as anything./QUOTE]

Per the Yahoo article linked he missed school all the time when he went on road trips. They had an arrangement with the school and had tutors for the kid but this wasn't just a situation where the kid popped in to the clubhouse after school at home and went on roadtrips when school was out.
He was with the team all the time.
Edit: Dont know what the deal is with the weird formatting
 

garlan5

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I said it yesterday in another thread, Laroche comes off seeming very entitled. The white sox made a mistake letting it get as far as it did. Maybe I'm missing something but it's very out of line as a player and as a parent to do what he did. If the stories of the kid being around near 24/7 are true
 

The Talented Allen Ripley

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LaRoche's dad was former major leaguer Dave LaRoche. Maybe Adam spent a lot of time with him in the clubhouse growing up, had fond memories of it, and took it to the extreme with his own kid. Seems weird, but both sides handled this about as well as one could hope.
 

Leather

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I said it yesterday in another thread, Laroche comes off seeming very entitled. The white sox made a mistake letting it get as far as it did. Maybe I'm missing something but it's very out of line as a player and as a parent to do what he did. If the stories of the kid being around near 24/7 are true
How is he "entitled" by accepting the team's decision and then making the calculated decision that he didn't want to play baseball anymore?

People throw around that word a lot without knowing what it means.
 

Schnerres

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garlan meant LaRoche comes around as entitled, as he brings his kid to his work every day and believes this is normal until told otherwise.
I would not go to my work and bring my kid with me (each day) until my boss told me to leave him at home for 50% of the time. Seems like over-the-top superstar behaviour, where someone brings his entire entourage and someone of them has a look for your kid. And LaRoche definitely isn´t that superstar. He is an average player. So if the next guy decides to bring his twins, you have a kindergarten in clubhouse.
 

MakMan44

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garlan meant LaRoche comes around as entitled, as he brings his kid to his work every day and believes this is normal until told otherwise.
I would not go to my work and bring my kid with me (each day) until my boss told me to leave him at home for 50% of the time. Seems like over-the-top superstar behaviour, where someone brings his entire entourage and someone of them has a look for your kid. And LaRoche definitely isn´t that superstar. He is an average player. So if the next guy decides to bring his twins, you have a kindergarten in clubhouse.
As Rip points out, maybe LaRoche didn't think it was so weird because he spent a lot of time in the club house when he was a kid.

Also, if nobody points this out to him, why would he think it was weird? He's going to think it's acceptable behavior because he was never told otherwise.
 

Dummy Hoy

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LaRoche's dad was former major leaguer Dave LaRoche. Maybe Adam spent a lot of time with him in the clubhouse growing up, had fond memories of it, and took it to the extreme with his own kid. Seems weird, but both sides handled this about as well as one could hope.
Both brothers grew up in clubhouses with dad. Adam has said for years how important it is that his son be with him, which I'm okay with. White Sox thought it was a bit distracting having the teenage son of a barely passable major leaguer around all the time, which I'm okay with.
 

Leather

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As Rip points out, maybe LaRoche didn't think it was so weird because he spent a lot of time in the club house when he was a kid.

Also, if nobody points this out to him, why would he think it was weird? He's going to think it's acceptable behavior because he was never told otherwise.
Exactly. And other players are all saying it was no problem, the kid kept his head down and helped out around the place.

There are plenty of businesses where parents have their kids come and help out. People slamming LaRoche for this are reaching for something that isn't there. Like:

. Seems like over-the-top superstar behaviour, where someone brings his entire entourage and someone of them has a look for your kid. And LaRoche definitely isn´t that superstar. He is an average player. So if the next guy decides to bring his twins, you have a kindergarten in clubhouse.
1) so a 13 year old kid is now the same as "an entourage" of, presumably, adult men?
2) are there any reports that other kids were there, causing problems? No. Slippery slope arguments suck because they ignore the facts in favor of a hypothetical that probably won't occur.
 

TheYaz67

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That Ken Griffey Jr. kid really ended up screwed up from spending lots of time in an MLB clubhouse, that is for sure!

Many players are too young to have kids his age, and MLB tradition has been that kids have been long tolerated in the clubhouses. Hard to know if Williams just did this because he is a dick, or if players who were uncomfortable telling LaRoche directly and told the manager/GM instead....
 

Alcohol&Overcalls

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Exactly. And other players are all saying it was no problem, the kid kept his head down and helped out around the place.
Yeah - I think this is the most important point. When I was 14, I spent the summer bagging groceries - I think spending the summer shagging balls, cleaning up around the clubhouse, and putting away equipment after drills would have taught me exactly the same work ethic/life lessons but with the added bonus of being super fucking sweet, and also including time with my dad in the process. Adam Eaton went out of his way to praise the kid and say they fought to keep the kid and LaRoche around.

This isn't entitlement any more than driving a Jaguar to the games is - it's just an incredible opportunity only afforded to ballplayers, and it sounds like one that was far from abused. To my mind, this is Kenny Williams exerting authority and trying to save $13 million (or accidentally doing so, and I'm not sure the specifics on that matter). That's his job, and LaRoche felt he was doing his as a dad. Nobody's a bad guy here.
 

B H Kim

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When he was with the Nationals, he had his son around all the time and it certainly seemed like everyone, including the players, were fine with it. (I remember stories about Drake and Harper drinking cider in the clubhouse together while everyone else was drinking champaign and beer after they clinched the division in 2012.) I would be very surprised if LaRoche didn't raise this issue with the White Sox before he signed with them, so they should have known what they were getting.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Both brothers grew up in clubhouses with dad. Adam has said for years how important it is that his son be with him, which I'm okay with. White Sox thought it was a bit distracting having the teenage son of a barely passable major leaguer around all the time, which I'm okay with.
Right. He grew up in a clubhouse and presumably spent a lot of time in a clubhouse. How many of his teammates' kids did he see there on a regular basis?

I don't think that it's a bad idea to bring your kid to work once in awhile--especially if your dad's a ball player--but to expect that he can be there every, single day is a little much. Even though it has a fun name, a "club house" is still a place where professionals work. And relax. How many times have we heard a player say, "The clubhouse is a special place, it's the one place where the team can be the team and not have to worry about the outside world."? Inviting a kid into that world once, maybe twice a week isn't a huge deal, but for an extended period of time? Ugh.

I have kids. I like kids. But a lot of times, other people's kids are the worst. And of course all the other players are saying that this wasn't a problem, who wants to look like a monster? "Yeah, this kid was a real fucking prick. He wouldn't shut up about the time he grabbed Suzi Rottencrotch's tit, he leaves his zit cream all over the place and he won't quit staring at my junk." I've worked with plenty of people who bring their kids in when they are in a pinch and for the first five or ten minutes, it's fun. But after awhile, it starts to suck. The dynamic of the room changes, you kind of have to watch what you say and ultimately they get bored and start making themselves a nuisance.

And if this was Williams' way of getting rid of a $13M albatross, it's fucking brilliant.
 

glennhoffmania

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Also, if nobody points this out to him, why would he think it was weird? He's going to think it's acceptable behavior because he was never told otherwise.
I don't think this is a big deal either way, but I hear this kind of excuse in various contexts and I never get it. If no one else is doing what you're doing, maybe it should click that there's a reason for it. Sometimes people need to use some common sense instead of throwing up their hands and saying that since no one ever told them a certain kind of behavior is frowned upon there's no way they could know it wasn't ok.
 

mauf

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If LaRoche cared enough about this issue to walk away from $13mm, wouldn't he have been willing to take a couple million less as a free agent to sign with a team that would accommodate him? There's zero chance this issue didn't come up during contract negotiations. I'm sure Williams assured LaRoche that his son would be welcome in the clubhouse; I'm equally sure that he didn't realize how pervasive his son's presence would be. And I'm sure neither side pressed the issue -- LaRoche didn't tell Williams exactly how much his son would be around, and Williams didn't inquire why LaRoche asked.

It doesn't make for a hot take, but it seems to me that both sides are handling this misunderstanding honorably.
 

Leather

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It doesn't make for a hot take, but it seems to me that both sides are handling this misunderstanding honorably.
Exactly. The media is trying to create a "PLAYER QUITS IN HUFF AFTER TEAM DISRESPECTS HIS SON!" story and it's just not there.

People quit jobs to get a better work/life balance every single day in every profession. My buddy worked at a Big Law firm for 4 years and left to go in house somewhere, largely because he has two young kids and his hours at the firm were brutal. Nobody blames the law firm for making him work on Sundays, and nobody blames my buddy for shrugging off possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars over the years, and maybe more if he made partner.

It's a calculation that both parties made, and that's that. There is no bad guy here.
 

garlan5

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How is he "entitled" by accepting the team's decision and then making the calculated decision that he didn't want to play baseball anymore?

People throw around that word a lot without knowing what it means.
garlan meant LaRoche comes around as entitled, as he brings his kid to his work every day and believes this is normal until told otherwise.
I would not go to my work and bring my kid with me (each day) until my boss told me to leave him at home for 50% of the time. Seems like over-the-top superstar behaviour, where someone brings his entire entourage and someone of them has a look for your kid. And LaRoche definitely isn´t that superstar. He is an average player. So if the next guy decides to bring his twins, you have a kindergarten in clubhouse.
Dr leather, Schnerres sums up what I meant. More power to him for walking though. While I'm sure most of the guys had zero problem with it there's likely a few who were rubbed the wrong way over time. Seems excessive to me, again if the reports are correct that the kid was there daily.
 

soxhop411

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uh.... I think the players were perfectly fine with him in the locker room


White Sox players considered boycott to support Adam LaRoche

Chicago White Sox players considered not playing in Wednesday's spring training game in support of former teammate Adam LaRoche, sources told ESPN's Karl Ravech.

LaRoche abruptly retired Tuesday after team president Ken Williams told the slugger that he had to limit the time his 14-year-old son, Drake, spent with the team.

Sources told Ravech that White Sox manager Robin Ventura intervened and persuaded the players, who were united in support of LaRoche, to play the game against the Milwaukee Brewers.

There likely will be a meeting in the coming days among owner Jerry Reinsdorf, executive vice president Ken Williams and general manager Rick Hahn to go over ground rules for clubhouse access for those in upper management. Sources said there is a division between those in the front office, and Ventura and his players regarding clubhouse access.

LaRoche, 36, walked away from a contract that would have paid him $13 million this season.
 

TheYaz67

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What a douchebag Williams is - sounds like the teammates were totally supportive of the kid being there, no one complained, and Williams did this on his own initiative thinking the guys were not focused b/c of LaRoche's kid being around. So wanting his team to focus on baseball, he creates a massive non-baseball distraction, and alienates several of the guys he needs to "focus". What an idiot - glad to see this backfiring on him so badly....
 

pedro1918

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If LaRoche cared enough about this issue to walk away from $13mm, wouldn't he have been willing to take a couple million less as a free agent to sign with a team that would accommodate him? There's zero chance this issue didn't come up during contract negotiations. I'm sure Williams assured LaRoche that his son would be welcome in the clubhouse; I'm equally sure that he didn't realize how pervasive his son's presence would be. And I'm sure neither side pressed the issue -- LaRoche didn't tell Williams exactly how much his son would be around, and Williams didn't inquire why LaRoche asked.

It doesn't make for a hot take, but it seems to me that both sides are handling this misunderstanding honorably.
I don't agree "there is zero chance this issue didn't come up during contract negotiations." Even if it did it there could have been a misunderstanding. LaRoche could have heard the White Sox are "kid friendly". WIlliams may have assumed "having my kid in the clubhouse" didn't mean every moment of the season. The White Sox are saying they didn't change their policy, but I'd bet LaRoche thinks they have.

I don't think WIlliams did anything wrong. He made a reasonable request. LaRoche made his decision. I may not understand it, but we are all different. If that's where we are, fine.
 

Snoop Soxy Dogg

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I hear what the players are saying publicly, but I have a hard time believing that there is not a single one of them + Coaching staff who thought this was a little weird/inappropriate. May be the kid was fine, didn't get in the way, etc., but I'm not quite sure what the public statement says, other than maybe the fact that most players didn't see this as a major issue.

But then, maybe one or two did; why would Williams do this now? Maybe somebody suggested that he should do something about it. Maybe he saw something he didn't like, who knows. But the "Kenny's just being a douchebag for the heck of it" take is a little simplistic IMO.

Like JMOH said above, nobody's going to be the monster coming out saying that they don't like having a kid around their workplace every freaking day. Peer pressure is a beautiful thing.
 

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After three strait seasons of sucking, maybe the clubhouse needs to be a bit more business-like and some boundaries just might be appropriate.
If the WS start slow, stress is going to be high in that room, at least it should be, and heads are going to roll.
Is there any chance LaRoche might have been released? His spring isn't showing last season to be an outlier of suck and he's hardly played.
 

TheYaz67

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White Sox ace Chris Sale got into a heated confrontation with Williams, according to a Yahoo report. The lefty shouted f-bombs at Williams during the conversation, bothered that the executive didn’t spend enough time around the team to understand the chemistry that he was questioning.
I think I will stick with my "clueless executive douchebag" hypothesis, Occam's Razor and all that....
 

JimD

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I'm trying to imagine some member of the '04 Red Sox bringing his kid to work ... his wife would probably be having a talk with him to ask why Junior strips his clothes off as soon as he gets home every day and tries to do naked chin-ups.
 

MakMan44

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I don't think this is a big deal either way, but I hear this kind of excuse in various contexts and I never get it. If no one else is doing what you're doing, maybe it should click that there's a reason for it. Sometimes people need to use some common sense instead of throwing up their hands and saying that since no one ever told them a certain kind of behavior is frowned upon there's no way they could know it wasn't ok.
Well apparently it was part of his agreement to sign with the White Sox, so I guess we know why nobody told him it wasn't okay until today.


 

MakMan44

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Yeah, it it sounded like it was a verbal agreement but still, if it was brought up and he was told it wouldn't be an issue before he signed, I'm a little less surprised by his hard stance.
 

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I suppose it's easier to walk away from 13M when you've made 70M in your career ... unless, of course, you've already pissed through the 70M
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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So... Allen Craig and $5m to the White Sox for an A-ball reliever?
I'd be happy with an Allen Craig for Drake LaRoche swap.

But it's like SJH says, LaRoche was pretty bad last year as were the White Sox. If he had a good season and the Sox did okay, I doubt that this would be an issue. But now this has become one, even though it really shouldn't be. Put it this way, if Dad posted a +78 OPS for the first two months, little Drake wasn't going to be waddling into the White Sox clubhouse for much longer.

I still find it dumb that the LaRoches aren't "big on school". What a strange, stupid thing to say.