Any chance he was about to be released? Is it worth $13-million for the WS to limit a 2-year mistake to one and just cut bait?
Adam LaRoche, his son, Kenny Williams, and retirement
- Thread starter Curll
- Start date
Indeed. In fairness though, that approach doesn't appear to have worked out all that badly for daddy..Who knows where it takes the son though.
Edit - silly quote thing.
I'm sure it was a negotiation point that didn't make it into writing. Williams probably said something to the effect 'bring your kid in as much as you want as long as it doesn't cause any issues in the clubhouse.' Laroche is surely oblivious to some guys not wanting to watch their mouths or deal with a kid hanging around so he didn't anticipate there could possibly be an issue and ignored any caveats. I don't agree with his parenting style in the least given what I feel is a need for a 14 year old to attend school and socialize with peers, but that's his business and he didn't make a stink about it, he just decided to move on. In that sense, he handled it as well as could be. Sale and the rest of those guys, not so much.
Not sure how anyone could come to that conclusion.
If they had been on the verge of releasing LaRoche, Kenny Williams would have personally delivered his retirement papers to MLB headquarters the second the office opened today. Instead, the White Sox have delayed taking any action to give LaRoche a chance to reconsider.
Not released today. Maybe Kenny is just jumping of the grenade for some players that weren't happy about the kid being around all the time.
Regardless, I think Kenny is happy with what was probably an unintended result and he doesn't have any reason to rush it. Let Adam do all the heavy lifting and if he's bluffing, navigate his own walk back from hastily retiring.
This thing is really taking on a life of it's own. However, like everything else it will too pass. Kenny's credibility is not the highest to begin with, however he's handling it as best as it can possibly be handled. Chris Sale and the other WS that are barking made their point and need to let it go. They won't win the war. LaRoche ain't coming back and the WS aren't asking.
Pretty sure the reports said he went on road trips as well. So I'm not sure how he *wouldn't* miss school, unless he's home schooled.I doubt he missed any school, unless he`s home-schooled. The games are at night and half the season is during the summer. With the team not doing so great maybe the decision was as much on clubhouse chemistry as anything.
Who knows how the kid acted in the clubhouse, maybe like Stilwell.
The article definitely made it sound like he was home-schooled, between his father and a tutor.
You have to wonder what LaRoche is doing now to share time with his kid. If he can´t be with him at his baseball job, he won´t be alright with the kid going to school. He will be home-schooled and they will be going hunting, travelling, hiking, canoeing, whalewatching, volcanoclimbing, Icelanding and so on.7
On a serious note: I understand he wants time with his kid(s), but the boy is 14 and should get a perspective in life(outside of baseball), other social contacts than family; Friends, soon there will (should) be girls, sports, parties and such things. And Adam should move on from overparenting. You want to raise independent kids/teenagers. Yes, Drake has all the money in the world, but does he know how to live his life when Dad´s gone tomorrow or in five years? Comments like "we´re not big into school" sound stoneaged and really dumb.
What I like about LaRoche is that he obviously doesn´t make the smallest problem about this story at all and just walked away: that´s classy.
On a serious note: I understand he wants time with his kid(s), but the boy is 14 and should get a perspective in life(outside of baseball), other social contacts than family; Friends, soon there will (should) be girls, sports, parties and such things. And Adam should move on from overparenting. You want to raise independent kids/teenagers. Yes, Drake has all the money in the world, but does he know how to live his life when Dad´s gone tomorrow or in five years? Comments like "we´re not big into school" sound stoneaged and really dumb.
What I like about LaRoche is that he obviously doesn´t make the smallest problem about this story at all and just walked away: that´s classy.
Bob Nightengale @BNightengale 2m2 minutes ago
Chris sale paying tribute to LaRoche family #whitesox
Bob Nightengale @BNightengale 8m8 minutes ago
Blake LaRoche autographed his uniform to Sale: Thanks for everything. I'll never forget you!
Bob Nightengale @BNightengale 4m4 minutes ago
Drake LaRoche inscription to Chris Sale on another jersey: Chris thank you for taking care of me. #Whitesox
Chris sale paying tribute to LaRoche family #whitesox
Bob Nightengale @BNightengale 8m8 minutes ago
Blake LaRoche autographed his uniform to Sale: Thanks for everything. I'll never forget you!
Bob Nightengale @BNightengale 4m4 minutes ago
Drake LaRoche inscription to Chris Sale on another jersey: Chris thank you for taking care of me. #Whitesox
Looks like if any players complained, they were in the minority:
http://abc7chicago.com/sports/white-sox-players-considered-boycott-to-support-adam-laroche/1250055/
http://abc7chicago.com/sports/white-sox-players-considered-boycott-to-support-adam-laroche/1250055/
I think people are going a bit overboard with the home-schooling thing. The kid goes to regular school during the off-season already. At least, that's the impression I got from this older story from when LaRoche was in Washington.
I guess the debate over whether it is proper for Drake to be at the ball park every day is a valid one, but there's no basis for the criticism that LaRoche is a poor parent for not having the kid educated or socialized in a "normal" way.
If the result of LaRoche retiring is that he returns to his "small Kansas town" to live full time, then Drake can go to school full-time like a "normal" kid and Adam is there every day to spend time with him after school or on the weekends...way more than he would if he were traveling the country playing baseball full time. I would imagine the big impetus behind the way the LaRoches chose to educate their son is because the alternative is likely that Adam is away from Drake from mid-February through mid-June, then again from mid-August through September (or October) when he's with the team and the kid (and presumably his wife) is back home in school. That's 6-7 months out of the year where maybe he sees the kid once or twice a month if mom and son fly in to where ever he's playing for a weekend.
I guess the debate over whether it is proper for Drake to be at the ball park every day is a valid one, but there's no basis for the criticism that LaRoche is a poor parent for not having the kid educated or socialized in a "normal" way.
yah... This isn't going to go away any time soon
Bill Shaikin @BillShaikin 4m4 minutes ago
White Sox player rep Adam Eaton says he has talked with MLBPA about potential La Roche grievance
Bill Shaikin @BillShaikin 4m4 minutes ago
Eaton says La Roche told him he did have contractual agreement for son to be in clubhouse.
Bill Shaikin @BillShaikin 12m12 minutes ago
Chris Sale said Ken Williams told "bald-faced lie," variously blamed teammtes, coaches and management for change in Drake La Roche's access.
Bill Shaikin @BillShaikin 17m17 minutes ago
Chris Sale: "This isn't us rebelling against rules. This is us rebelling against BS."
Bob Nightengale @BNightengale 3m3 minutes ago
Chris Sale accuses #WhiteSox VP Ken Williams of lying to team, and now have a meeting scheduled with Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf.
Bob Nightengale @BNightengale 1m1 minute ago
Chris Sale: The wrong guys walked out of that room, meaning teammate Adam LaRoche, and not #WhiteSox VP Ken Williams
Bill Shaikin @BillShaikin 4m4 minutes ago
White Sox player rep Adam Eaton says he has talked with MLBPA about potential La Roche grievance
Bill Shaikin @BillShaikin 4m4 minutes ago
Eaton says La Roche told him he did have contractual agreement for son to be in clubhouse.
Bill Shaikin @BillShaikin 12m12 minutes ago
Chris Sale said Ken Williams told "bald-faced lie," variously blamed teammtes, coaches and management for change in Drake La Roche's access.
Bill Shaikin @BillShaikin 17m17 minutes ago
Chris Sale: "This isn't us rebelling against rules. This is us rebelling against BS."
Bob Nightengale @BNightengale 3m3 minutes ago
Chris Sale accuses #WhiteSox VP Ken Williams of lying to team, and now have a meeting scheduled with Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf.
Bob Nightengale @BNightengale 1m1 minute ago
Chris Sale: The wrong guys walked out of that room, meaning teammate Adam LaRoche, and not #WhiteSox VP Ken Williams
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One issue I haven't seen discussed is liability. What if Drake gets injures using team equipment? What if he gets hit in the head with a ball during BP? Does the team have any liability for these things and, if so, does that justify banning him?
Even though Drake is there 100% of the time, it's not like kids haven't been in the clubhouse or on the field during BP before.
Thanks for this post. It is hard to know what is really going on with the White Sox. About the tradition of older players bringing sons along for more than just batting practice once in a while: the Franconas also come to my mind. Terry says he was a regular with Tito from age 9-age 11, including interacting with stars and hearing salty stuff on the team bus.
I think how acceptable it is depends on a lot that is hard to measure; how the kid behaves, what others on the team feel like. Unfortunately this also reminds me of the last days of that Pesky fellow in the dugout. Although it was a league rule and apparently an opposing team making the push, It seemed that someone with the Red Sox wanted to see a little less of their legend, but couldn't say it directly or say it without looking (more) like asses.
(edit: grammar)
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Yeah that's true. It was more of a general question about whether liability is an issue that teams need to worry about in this context.
I honestly don't have an answer. It's an interesting question but I'd assume it's something that's been brought up before. Thankfully, it hasn't been an issue but you're right, in theory have Drake there every day ups the risk factor significantly.
Williams didn't totally ban the kid from the clubhouse or team activities. Just didn't want him there all the time. All those old traditions are still intact. Laroche and his son could still get all those benefits that previous players/kids enjoyed. But those traditions could easily be ended if more players wanted their kids to spend a lot of time with the team. On the field, in the clubhouse, on the road, whatever. A bunch of kids spending even 50% of the time around the club could be distracting. If the privilege gets abused, it is more likely to end for all kids. And that would be a shame.
Well put! There has to be limitations. I get the LaRoche loves his kid, realizes he's at the end of his career and wants to share the moments with him. But what if EVERYONE wanted to have a family member there to "share the moments" 100% of the time. The teams don't even let the wives travel all the time with the team on the plane. There are special times when they do but can you imagine if you wanted your daughter or your dad or your brother hanging out all the time? And you gave them their own locker too? It just got a little out of hand. Someone has to be the bad guy and that falls on Williams who plays the part well. The Sox had better stop crying, grow up and do their job.
LaRoche has tweeted a statement. According to him, Drake's ability to be in the clubhouse full time was negotiated in LaRoche's contract. Obviously this is just one side of the story, but combined with the players' reactions, it looks like Ken Williams is on an island in this.
As already reported, not all the players are on LaRoche's side in this issue.
If the clause is in LaRoche's contract, then instead of retiring he ought to get the MLBPA involved. Seems pretty straightforward. If he just got a verbal agreement, then he's out of luck.
This has the potential to become even more divisive. Just what the Sox need with the season starting in a couple weeks. I'm sure the Sox can find a taker for LaRoche and his family. No one is going to win here, no one. LaRoche should take his .207 average and just move on with his life while he still has some public support. Maybe Chris Sale can move in with the LaRoche family if he misses Drake that much. FFS, no one died here!
@PeteAbe
An angry Chris Sale is an opportunity for Red Sox: http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2016/03/18/angry-chris-sale-opportunity-for-red-sox/gW00Jj19jKg4pb1ar1VNYP/story.html?event=event25…
An angry Chris Sale is an opportunity for Red Sox: http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2016/03/18/angry-chris-sale-opportunity-for-red-sox/gW00Jj19jKg4pb1ar1VNYP/story.html?event=event25…
And what happens if Sale has triplets next year? There probably isn't enough space in Fenway's clubhouse for three extra lockers.
Like it or not, a major-league clubhouse is a union shop. If there was a specific clause in LaRoche's contract and Williams reneged on it, then a threatened player boycott is pretty much exactly what I would expect to happen. I initially thought both sides had handled this well, but as more facts come to light, it sounds like Williams made a big unforced error here.
Professional baseball is a relatively small, insular community. You don't want a reputation as someone who doesn't keep his promises.
Williams probably made a mistake by promising LaRoche special treatment, but that's water under the bridge. He compounded that mistake by going back on his word.
And this is the problem with the entire set up. Per LaRoche's post: "Though I clearly indicated to both teams the importance of having my son with me, I also made clear that if there was ever a moment when a teammate, coach or manager was made to feel uncomfortable, then I would immediately address it. I realize that this is their office and their career, and it would not be fair to the team if anybody in the clubhouse was unhappy with the situation. Fortunately, that problem never developed."
So, you have 2 problems:
1) He's putting teammates who don't want to share their workspace & locker room with a 14 year old in a bad position. Anyone that complains will be seen as the bad guy.
2) According to LaRoche, the remedy for any complaints is that he would "address it." Not sure if it was that vague when the deal was made, but according to LaRoche there may not have been a solid plan to address remedies in the original deal.
Or, maybe retiring is considered "addressing it." If so, I don't see how you can make Williams the bad guy. LaRoche should never have put his teammates & coaches in this position.
Just heard on Michael Kay that reports are out there that when LaRoche was with the Nats (or about to sign with the Nats), his son and daughter asked him to retire, supposedly to spend more time with them.
That's what I was thinking was going on here, that LaRoche has been wanting to spend every day with his family and was only still in baseball because of the special arrangement. The agreement ended and LaRoche retired. All the dissent didn't need to happen, it could have been done more mutually.
LaRoche is trying to take the high road here but the longer this plays out the the more likely this will turn on him. No one asked him to retire nor was he released. He DIDN'T want to try and work out a reasonable solution with Williams. It was all or nothing. Sale is not helping the situation with his inflammatory remarks that have blown this out of proportion. LaRoche would do well just let this all fade away and enjoy retirement on his terms. His family have built a cool baseball facility back home, he can spend all the time in the world now with his kid there.
Awkward on National Awkward Moment Day. Again, FFS NO ONE died here. It's professional sports; I get that Sale was probably close to the LaRoche's and there is a human element and emotion involved. People retire all the time, they get released, traded etc. It's part of the business.
OK, now I don't want to unload our farm system for him. Can we just stay away from this freakshow? If La Roche was able to basically live his preferred retired life but still draw his salary by hanging around the team and getting a hit every week or so, he should be thankful he got away with it for so long. Maybe he is and doesn't feel any regret about retiring. But for everyone else on the team to freak out about it is just so, so weird.
Yeah, I know it is a "business" and all that, but their job is a game. A game they all started playing as kids, not a "profession" they took up in their adult life. So obviously Sale and others are emotionally attached to the kid - they see that joy in his eyes, and the connection to their youth and first coming to love the game at likely a similar age.
I mean, why could Williams not say to the couple guys (who would not take it up with LaRoche directly) that he both had an agreement with LaRoche for his kid to be there, but also that they were a very small minority - clearly (the near game boycott) the vast majority of the team are cool with Drake being there. Why couldn't Williams demonstrate some damn leadership by saying "guys, its only one more year, for the good of team peace and cohesion (which has just been destroyed) could you guys please either take it up with Adam directly or just deal with it?". He could have pointed out to those guys that a likely result of him changing his agreement with LaRoche to address their concerns, LaRoche may retire, and other teammates may be mad about that. But no, he decided instead to create a huge distraction and drive a wedge in the clubhouse.
I mean he clearly did not run this by anyone or get the "pulse of the overall clubhouse" on the issue, then stumbled around making up various excuses and lies after the fact. Not much of a leader. This is on him, he needs to own it and I don't blame LaRoche for walking or his teammates being pissed about that result and the lies that followed.
Why would LaRoche "do well" to go away without his money, if Williams is breaking a promise? Why would you expect a co-worker like Sale to worry about "helping the situation" in a union context?
We don't know all the facts, but it seems likely that Williams made an ill-considered promise, then went back on it. Im not sure why LaRoche, Sale, or any other player should be ok with that, unless you think players in general should grovel before their masters with gratitude that they're paid handsomely to play a game.
If Adam's current abilities are 25-man roster worthy the Sox are in for long summer. This result is for the good of the team.
A washed up corpse has not only been removed, the team saves $13-million.
The drama out of Adam and Sale makes this seem like a much larger clubhouse issue.
A washed up corpse has not only been removed, the team saves $13-million.
The drama out of Adam and Sale makes this seem like a much larger clubhouse issue.
If other players were unhappy about it, Williams was better of confronting this issue now than some time later in the season. You can't put players in the position of having to confront a majority of their peers, and for a team that has played below .500 for the last three years, I'm thinking that there might be players and coaches genuinely stressing about their futures. What if some of those guys find the kid being there all the time to be a distraction?
It's nice for Sale to get all emotional about it, but he's an elite player who doesn't have much to worry about career-wise. At least not for the moment.
If LaRoche has something in his contract, there are ways for him to deal with that. If there isn't anything in his contract, then he really should have expressed to his agent the full scope of his preferences and got it in the contract.
It's nice for Sale to get all emotional about it, but he's an elite player who doesn't have much to worry about career-wise. At least not for the moment.
I don't think this seems likely at all. Clearly there is a misunderstanding about how much the kid is there, or maybe how the concerns of other players or coaches should be addressed, but I don't know how anyone can tell how much that misunderstanding is on Williams, LaRoche, or LaRoche's agent.
If LaRoche has something in his contract, there are ways for him to deal with that. If there isn't anything in his contract, then he really should have expressed to his agent the full scope of his preferences and got it in the contract.
LaRoche walked away -- it sounds like he had to be prodded into filing a grievance.
The issue is that other players have taken up his cause. In a union shop, and especially on a club where ownership has been notoriously anti-union for a long time (Reinsdorf might be MLB's most hated man), it's not surprising that this incident has become a flashpoint. Williams should've seen this coming and handled the situation differently.