Adam LaRoche, his son, Kenny Williams, and retirement
- Thread starter Curll
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Promises are broken everyday in the world. We DON"T know the specifics of any agreement. At this point LaRoche is a journeyman player on the very end of his lucrative career. No one would be taking on that contract in the strong likelihood he shits the bed. Again, NO ONE forced Adam to walk away. He wanted it all on his terms or not at all. He decided he didn't want to compromise. People are making this a big deal because he put his kid ahead of $13 MM and the team. It was a unique situation that ran it's course. Nothing more, nothing less. He walked away. That's fine. No one has a problem with that part. His choice.
It's Sale that has blown this story up into something bigger with an emotional reaction and that's fine too but at the end of the day, the game will go on and Sale, I guarantee you will continue to collect his check. He's not walking and he's not winning this battle.
If there is something in LaRoche's contract about this arrangement, then yeah, I agree with you that Williams should have known it would become a union issue. Barring that, I don't know that Williams should have anticipated this big blow up before he first talked to LaRoche.
I'd guess that the timing might be related to when complaint(s) reached Williams.
Heck, signed contracts are broken everyday. Often it's just a business decision.
So on the outside chance and I mean very outside chance, the Sox cave in to the players feelings and beg Laroche to come back. How does the hierarchy play out? LaRoche is not getting any better or younger. In all likelihood, the decline continues and you have very pricey hole in the lineup that is hurting the team. Yet, because he is now "untouchable" and the kid gets carte blanche with the team, chaos reigns supreme. Dysfunction creeps in pretty quickly.
Or you just hand the reins over to the kid.
Or you just hand the reins over to the kid.
From this article, it appears that Williams was the fall guy for the White Sox and that he only told LaRoche to dial it back with Drake after players and staff members complained about it.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/bob-nightengale/2016/03/18/adam-laroche-drake-laroche-kenny-williams/81993428/
The only aspect of this saga that is completely clear to me is that Robin Ventura has no control over his clubhouse. He should have dealt with this one way or the other. Given his terrible W-L record as a manager, I have no idea why Ventura still has this job.
And if this doesn't die down soon and Chris Sale doesn't let it go, it will be a Shit Show of an Opening Day. Ventura won't survive it.
Glad the USA Today article showed a little more of both sides. LaRoche was kind of being a dick about the whole thing. Can't believe he's being made out to be a martyr. File the papers already.
It's fine that you disagree with how this is being reported, but I don't get how you move from there to saying that "LaRoche is being a dick."
He was asked to cut down the frequency of his son being in the clubhouse. When that response became an edict eliminating clubhouse access, he retired.
He didn't hold a press conference or issue a press release. (The statement in the article above was issued days after the fact because no one had heard anything from LaRoche and he wanted to clarify what happened.) He doesn't seem to have given interviews. He filled out and submitted his retirement papers and left. And because you don't agree with how upset Chris Sale is, this makes LaRoche a dick?
The USA Today article makes it pretty clear that Ken Williams screwed this up from the outset.
- They agreed to give Drake LaRoche unlimited clubhouse access, even providing a locker for him.
- They appear to have been aware of complaints from some players last year, but (almost incredibly) didn't address this and/or suggest changes to their agreement with LaRoche until he showed up in camp.
- When LaRoche either ignored Williams' suggestion or didn't move quickly enough to change his routine, Williams appears to have flown off the handle and told LaRoche that his son would lose all access. Which is what prompted LaRoche to retire.
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Maybe players tried to go to Ventura, who said he couldn't do much because it was a contractual issue and would have to be brought to Williams?
I hadn't really followed anything about this story except to say: he wasn't sending his kid to school at all? What the fuck?
Edit: Nevermind, from reading rest of thread, appears to be some weird homeschooling thing with 6mo in a baseball clubhouse. Still odd.
Edit: Nevermind, from reading rest of thread, appears to be some weird homeschooling thing with 6mo in a baseball clubhouse. Still odd.
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He's the home-schooling type, even if he didn't play baseball. I'll be honest, I'm fully inclined to side against LaRoche here, not just because I think he comes off poorly, but because of the type of person he is. He's of the Duck Dynasty demographic. His kid is probably a total piece of shit.
And it's easy to say that LaRoche was being a dick. Apparently he was asked to scale it back and totally ignored the request. Then when that topic was revisited, he took his ball and went home. No sympathy. Bye.
Not everyone with some home schooling background is part of the 'Duck Dynasty demographic'. For someone who has virtually unlimited money to throw at the problem, it's easy to believe the kid isn't missing out on the education front at least. There are plenty of other opportunities for socialization in life. In short, we don't know jack or shit, but your sympathy seems quite easily lost on the basis of one thin fact. How charitable.
Yeah, I'm generalizing about home-schooled kids, but the LaRoches ARE of that demographic.
If you couldn't tell, I'm biased here. I don't like Adam LaRoche.
I will admit that my sarcasm detector is malfunctioning these days, but please tell me that this is performance art. Because otherwise, you're being an ignorant tool.
Edit: from the post directly above mine, it appears that you were being serious. In which case, you are an unspeakable asshole.
Really? Glad you think so. I stand by my opinions and am thrilled to know where you stand, so I don't waste any time on you going forward.
You described a 14 year old kid as "probably a total piece of shit" based on nothing more than your admitted religious/cultural prejudices and your response is to say that "I stand by my opinion."
Please explain how this is different than hating someone because of their race, gender or sexual orientation?
Please explain how this is different than hating someone because of their race, gender or sexual orientation?
This is a message board. We sometimes engage in hyperbole and rip on people. The comment about his kid was clearly not 100% serious - I obviously don't know this kid at all. Judging by the people who have raised him and the values that they hold, I'm confident that this kid has some horrible opinions (even if it's not his fault). So you're right - I apologize. I don't know that he's a total piece of shit. It's more like a 75% chance that he is.
Seriously, get off your high horse. "How DARE you discuss a child in this manner?!" Spare me.
Doesn't seem to speak too well for "most of the players"
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/19/sports/baseball/for-adam-laroche-the-father-son-bond-proves-stronger-than-the-game.html?contentCollection=weekendreads&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=c-column-middle-span-region®ion=c-column-middle-span-region&WT.nav=c-column-middle-span-region&_r=0
No, it doesn't. But specifically, LaRoche and Sale are coming off like petulant children. Do White Sox fans care about this beyond how their players' temper tantrums seem to be sinking the season before it even starts? I suspect Red Sox fans would have zero sympathy for LaRoche (and would be pissed at Sale) if this were a Boston clubhouse issue. These guys have one of the strongest unions on the planet backing them, are multimillionaires, their employment is guaranteed even when they're incredibly awful at their job, and I don't think many people want their coworkers' kids around every moment of the workday anyway. Beyond that, how many fans can relate to giving up $12M because they can't be around their kid constantly at work? Especially when in six months the job will evaporate and they could spend as much time as they want with the kid. This whole thing reminds me of Phil Mickelson complaining publicly about taxes--so wildly out of touch. The big difference being that the PGA Tour had the sense to convince him to shut his mouth.
Once again, I feel it needs to be pointed out that Drake LaRoche is not home-schooled, at least not full time. During the off-season, when Adam LaRoche is home and not traveling around playing baseball for a living, Drake attends a public school like a "normal" kid. With LaRoche retiring, I'd bet good money Drake will go back to his public school full time rather than be privately tutored or home schooled.
What's lost in this is that there is a 14 YO boy that wants to spend that much time with his father. I, for one, am incredibly jealous of that.
My quote was "kind of being a dick". When approached by Williams about this and scaling back even after LaRoche said he would if it ever was a problem, he blew Williams completely off. So basically he told his boss "Fuck you, I changed my mind and I'll do what I want to do". That's where this initially blew up three days later when he saw Drake on the mound. In the real world and probably most other club houses, this wouldn't fly. So Williams had a hard line stance to that and then the fun began. So yeah, I'll stand by my quote. I also stand by my quotes that LaRoche is entitled to retire if he doesn't get his way. It was handled poorly by ALL involved. If LaRoche had done what he initially agreed to, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
What did LaRoche agree to do?
I mean, I know what Williams wanted him to do, but I have not seen any reporting that LaRoche agreed to it.
I mean, I know what Williams wanted him to do, but I have not seen any reporting that LaRoche agreed to it.
I'll go look for it but he said that if it ever became an issue or a problem, he would address it.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/15007382/mlb-statement-adam-laroche
"Though I clearly indicated to both teams the importance of having my son with me, I also made clear that if there was ever a moment when a teammate, coach or manager was made to feel uncomfortable, then I would immediately address it. I realize that this is their office and their career, and it would not be fair to the team if anybody in the clubhouse was unhappy with the situation."
"Though I clearly indicated to both teams the importance of having my son with me, I also made clear that if there was ever a moment when a teammate, coach or manager was made to feel uncomfortable, then I would immediately address it. I realize that this is their office and their career, and it would not be fair to the team if anybody in the clubhouse was unhappy with the situation."
That pretty much sums it up. A lot of over reactions but Sale threw gas on the otherwise simmering flames.
This is where I am.
I don't know enough to say I if Sale is being a first class idiot or if Williams completely mismanaged the situation, but I can at least understand why people would be turned off by what Sale has said.
The only thing I've seen LaRoche say about the situation is the statement that was part of the USA Today story:
I'll admit that I can't relate to LaRoche or the situation, but I don't see how he's being a monster here.
He's being a "monster" (and this is a bit too harsh) by putting his club in this position. His boss asked him to scale back his son coming into the clubhouse, he ignored his boss, his boss had to do something so he told him that Drake wasn't allowed in the clubhouse at all. So LaRoche quits and insinuates that the White Sox are not family friendly and does nothing when his former teammates make it sound like the LaRouches were decapitated in the middle of The Cell (is that what people call Comiskey II, I don't know).
It started off as both sides doing the "right thing" when they disagreed but it has completely blown up to comical levels. And I think that LaRoche could have probably nipped this in the bud with a call to Sale saying, "Knock it off. It's really not that big of a deal."
That could very well be. But if it was me, I would ask them not to use my son as a martyr for their cause.
LaRoche seemed more than okay with his decision on Thursday to retire. Furthermore he seemed to want to take the high road and not disparage anyone on the way out the door. His (former) teammates kicked this up a few notches and he could have told them to cut the shit.
Is it standard procedure for the Executive VP or the GM to take the lead on clubhouse issues? Or is this just a clubhouse issue? It really feels as though Ventura should have been out in front on it if there was a real issue. And maybe there was a disagreement between the front office and the clubhouse on whether there was an issue. Or, as I think someone mentioned before, maybe someone took it to Ventura, who gave them no satisfaction, so it moved upstairs. In any event, it's a cluster. The actual event is nowhere near as big as it's been blown up to be, and your ace is in open hostility with the Executive VP. Not good.
The White Sox ace appears to be of the low wattage bulb variety. If you require your kid around all the time and you don't work in daycare... an MLB clubhouse shouldn't be the next best thing. If actual MLB players, unlike Adam at this point at his point in his hanging on careert, didn't want 24-7 of this otherwise fine young man... happy retirement super dad.
His statement doesn't read like the high road. He had agreed to address it if people complained. Then when people complained he specifically called out Williams, trying to twist the knife on the way out the door.
This seems to sum it up for most on the south side:
http://www.southsidesox.com/2016/3/19/11269960/open-letter-to-white-sox-players
Apropos of nothing, one of my favorite bits of trivia is that Adam LaRoche and JD Drew share the same first name. Go forth and amaze your friends.
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That would pretty much sum up my feelings if I were a Chisox fan. Definitely makes some good points about the likely perspective of journeymen players in the organization towards the presence of a teenager taking up space and time in their workouts - I don't doubt that Williams told LaRoche to dial it back after hearing negative feedback.
Also, FWIW, Karl Ravech on ESPN was reporting that Sale and other players believe that Williams and other executives have invaded their sanctuary and are pretty much demanding that not be allowed in the clubhouse. More incredulously, he stated that Robin Ventura is on the side of the players in this dispute. What a freaking mess Williams has on his hands there.
Agreed. I meant on Thursday when this was being thought of as a non-story. He just retired and walked away, Williams seemed cool with it too. Then it blew up and now everyone is covered in shit.
Three writers from .com took on this story this morning.
Lisa Carney came out in support of the LaRoches:
Lisa Carney came out in support of the LaRoches:
Justin Gorman thinks that Kenny Williams did what was best for the organization:
JimBoSox9 thinks they're both rational actors in this situation and this is all just a media firestorm:
Quotes from an anonymous WS player regarding DrakeGate.
http://www.todaysknuckleball.com/around-the-diamonds/mlb-rumors-rumblings-laroche-situation-should-lead-to-uniform-rules-for-kids-in-the-clubhouse/