Trading Rondo...

[Cellar-Door]

I don't think that Rondo and Smart can't be on the floor together.
Smart's best comparison if he is at SG is a Wade type (obviously not Wade himself). A slasher, who doesn't shoot threes. You can do that with our current roster since all our frontcourt guys can shoot (or at least try to shoot).
Long term though it is a waste of Smart's better skills to have him off the ball. Rondo is likely getting traded, not because we have Smart and they can't play together, but because we are in a longer rebuild and he's coming up on free agency, and unlikely to want to sign an extension before hitting the market.

 

[Auger34]

What could Rondo land in a trade? McLemore and 2 1st round picks for Rondo?

 

[Blacken]

McLemore and maybe another pick. Everybody's got a point guard.

 

[Blacken]

That's what I think the ceiling is, not what they'll easily get.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

That's what I think the ceiling is, not what they'll easily get.

 
Why do you think that?*
 
 
*Actually, I understand why you think that and happen to agree with you but I just feel this thread is best served by answering posts with questions.  Don't you agree?

 

[ElcaballitoMVP]

If they could have gotten Mclemore and a pick, wouldn't it have happened?

 
Well, I could see SAC being much more interested in moving next year's #1 as opposed to #8 this year. 
 
A Rondo/Stauskas/Gay/J.Smith/Cousins team has the potential to be a lot better than what they rolled out last year. 

 

[Auger34]

 
Well, I could see SAC being much more interested in moving next year's #1 as opposed to #8 this year. 
 
A Rondo/Stauskas/Gay/J.Smith/Cousins team has the potential to be a lot better than what they rolled out last year. 

 
Completely agree. The Kings organization, especially the owner, seem intent on competing right away and I would bet they think with Rondo (along with other moves like J-Smoove) would improve the team and move the pick down to the middle of the draft.
That would give the Celtics another asset and the team's weakness (front court players)  would dovetail nicely with the 2015 Draft (most of the projected top picks are big men. Okafor, Karl Towns, Cliff Alexander, Myles Turner, Porzingis.) And as luck would have it, the obvious worst team in the NBA just spent two top 6 picks on big men

 

[moly99]

What could Rondo land in a trade? McLemore and 2 1st round picks for Rondo?

 
I can't believe there is really that much value in Rondo given his contract situation. There's a reason we don't want to give him a max contract. He is a better than average point guard, but if you commit to a max contract for him he would be a negative from a cost/benefit perspective.

 

[Brickowski]

In order to get Smith, won't the Kings have to give up Gay?  Sure, Smith was a disaster in Detroit, but I don't think they will let him go for bits and pieces.
 
If the Kings do manage to get Smith, their interest in Rondo will go up. Houston is another team that might want Rondo.  So might the Lakers, the Mavs or the Raptors (if Lowry leaves).  IMHO the market for Rondo will solidify once Lowry finds a home.

 

[bosockboy]

As I said above, this only happens with max guys, MLE guys, and veteran minimum guys. Rondo is not LeBron, Bosh, Wade or Howard. That's what I meant by "in Rondo's situation" - someone signing a long term free agent contract for more than a salary cap exception, but less than the max.

Plus max guys have heavy endorsement money to fall back on. Rondo and next level types not so much.

 

[dylanmarsh]

It'd be pretty funny if the TWolves took a big chance and brought in Rondo to help Love and convince him to stay. It'd be even funnier if they had to take Green or Bass in order to get him. Why the hell not?

Edit: it could be a pu-pu platter of Budinger, Brewer, Rubio and draft picks. It would be a bet against Love and Rondo staying beyond next season.

 

[knucklecup]

IMHO the market for Rondo will solidify once Lowry finds a home.

Completely agreed.

My waitress last night was named Patience. I wanted to have intercourse with Patience but when it comes to the Celtics I have none.

Let other teams overpay for Lowry. Don't feel pressured to trade Rondo. Be content with another rebuilding season. With patience, the Rondo market will come.

Edit: I will say, being in Vegas for the majority of the playoffs, there is a part of me that wants a horse in the race even if that horse can't beat the Heat.

 

[ishmael]

The only question DA should worry about right now is whether Rondo has more value now or at the trade deadline.
 
This will be a full season coming off ACL surgery and with a (slightly) improved supporting cast. If Rondo can look like he did in 2010, then there will be a market for him come next February...

 

[bowiac]

Alternatively, if he struggles, both because he's not fully healthy, and because he's not playing with three hall of famers, then I think his trade value goes to zero awfully quickly.
 
I'm pessimistic personally, and would take a comparatively "low" offer because I think he's unlikely to be worth big assets.

 

[Sprowl]

The only question DA should worry about right now is whether Rondo has more value now or at the trade deadline.
 
This will be a full season coming off ACL surgery and with a (slightly) improved supporting cast. If Rondo can look like he did in 2010, then there will be a market for him come next February...

 
Well put. Rondo put on some very good shows when he wasn't being held out of back-to-back games.
 
I also think that Smart will not suffer from watching Rondo play quarterback for three months. When Rondo was playing, each of the other Celtics got the ball in the right place and the right tempo to maximize their limited offensive talents. Rondo's spectacular athleticism for rebounding and defense will probably never come back to full speed, but he has matured into a great distributor. He makes better scorers of Bradley and Green in particular.

 

[Reardon's Beard]

I must be in the distinct minority but I love Rondo, I want him to stay, and I want us to get Love however we can and try to lure at least one more player here to make the Celtics a competitive playoff team. If the Heat break up, and they very well might, there's no reason this team couldn't take the East next year.

 

[zenter]

I must be in the distinct minority but I love Rondo, I want him to stay, and I want us to get Love however we can and try to lure at least one more player here to make the Celtics a competitive playoff team. If the Heat break up, and they very well might, there's no reason this team couldn't take the East next year.

I also love Rondo and want him to stay, but the dominoes that need to fall just right for Love to come to Boston and the Heat to disintegrate is, well, an unlikely scenario.

I'm not completely convinced that Rondo and Smart cannot coexist, but if the right offer comes for Rondo, Cs should jump.

 

[mcpickl]

 
Well, I could see SAC being much more interested in moving next year's #1 as opposed to #8 this year. 
 
A Rondo/Stauskas/Gay/J.Smith/Cousins team has the potential to be a lot better than what they rolled out last year. 

 
Sacramento owes their pick next year to Chicago(top 10 protected)
 
Earliest pick they can currently move is 2017.
 
Feel like if a deal for Rondo is going to happen with Sacramento, the principals of the deal will be players.

 

[Reardon's Beard]

Check the Heat thread, I think you missed today's news. They will be better next year.

 
I didn't miss any news. A bunch of them opted out - but hasn't gone beyond that yet.
 
Sure they might all re-sign and the team could improve. But we don't know for sure until it happens.

 

[knucklecup]

You're certainly taking a chance by letting the season play out as far as Rondo's trade value goes but I'm not sure that justifies selling low on him this offseason.

For example, what does swapping Mclemore in for Rondo do to make the Celtics better?

 

[bowiac]

You're certainly taking a chance by letting the season play out as far as Rondo's trade value goes but I'm not sure that justifies selling low on him this offseason.

For example, what does swapping Mclemore in for Rondo do to make the Celtics better?

Just depends on what you think the odds are of Rondo "returning to form". I think they're pretty low personally, so I'd like to cash out.. 
 
McLemore gives the Celtics a prospect who could be good down the line...

 

[Devizier]

I'm not fond of McLemore, to be honest.
 
I think the Celtics will just end up playing out the string with Rondo (a la the Timberwolves with Love).

 

[bowiac]

I'm not fond of McLemore, to be honest.
 
I think the Celtics will just end up playing out the string with Rondo (a la the Timberwolves with Love).

I have no particular love of McLemore, but I suspect he might be the best the Celtics can do. Even a healthy Rondo was a somewhat questionable asset given the direction the NBA is headed, which is why I'm skeptical of his trade value.

 

[radsoxfan]

I have no particular love of McLemore, but I suspect he might be the best the Celtics can do. Even a healthy Rondo was a somewhat questionable asset given the direction the NBA is headed, which is why I'm skeptical of his trade value.

 
If that's the best they can do for Rondo, they should just keep him.  McLemore was the 7th pick in a brutal draft, and had an awful rookie year.  Given what we know now about him, if he was put into the draft this year, he would not have been taken in the top 20 (I'd much rather have Gary Harris or James Young for example).  If all Danny can get for Rondo is a semi-busted 21 year old, just keep Rondo and hope he has a great first half of the season. Plus, there is still some value in finding out how he and Smart play together.  
 
There was talk of McLemore being on the table to move up from 8 to 6 in this year's draft.  Don't know how legit that was, but his value is not much.

 

[Brickowski]

I have no interest in McLemore either, and the Kings don't have a pick to trade for some time.
 
I'm reading that Houston will decline its option on Chandler Parsons, making him restricted.  Rondo for Lin, filler and a first round pick, plus an agreement by Houston not to match an offer sheet on Parsons, is another option.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

 
Well put. Rondo put on some very good shows when he wasn't being held out of back-to-back games.
 
I also think that Smart will not suffer from watching Rondo play quarterback for three months. When Rondo was playing, each of the other Celtics got the ball in the right place and the right tempo to maximize their limited offensive talents. Rondo's spectacular athleticism for rebounding and defense will probably never come back to full speed, but he has matured into a great distributor. He makes better scorers of Bradley and Green in particular.

Green's offensive production went through the roof the minute Rondo went down with his knee injury two years ago. I know the "Rondo makes people better" is thrown around here loosely but Green took a leap once the ball was in his hands and not Rondo's.

Look at Green's splits in Feb/March/April and the leap he took once Rondo went down.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/greenje02/splits/2013/

 

[Sprowl]

Green's offensive production went through the roof the minute Rondo went down with his knee injury two years ago. I know the "Rondo makes people better" is thrown around here loosely but Green took a leap once the ball was in his hands and not Rondo's.

Look at Green's splits in Feb/March/April and the leap he took once Rondo went down.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/greenje02/splits/2013/

 
That applies to every other Celtic during 2012-13 as well, since Rondo was dominating the ball and Green and Courtney Lee were reduced to spot-up shooters, when their best game is off the dribble. That was a team with a lot of weapons, and Rondo stifled them.
 
The 2013-2014 team was a different animal, struggling for offense, with limited talent and creativity. Green and Bradley struggled to create on their own, but Rondo got them the ball where they needed it to play up their strengths. Rondo clearly made last year's team better, and if anything, the 2013-14 Celtics would have been better had Rondo dominated the ball more.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

 
That applies to every other Celtic during 2012-13 as well, since Rondo was dominating the ball and Green and Courtney Lee were reduced to spot-up shooters, when their best game is off the dribble. That was a team with a lot of weapons, and Rondo stifled them.
 
The 2013-2014 team was a different animal, struggling for offense, with limited talent and creativity. Green and Bradley struggled to create on their own, but Rondo got them the ball where they needed it to play up their strengths. Rondo clearly made last year's team better, and if anything, the 2013-14 Celtics would have been better had Rondo dominated the ball more.

Oh c'mon stop. I've been hearing this for years how Rondo makes his team better yet whenever he's out of the lineup the team wins games at a higher rate including last season when Jordan Crawford started and when Phil Pressey started.

If Rondo "clearly" made the Celtics better it sure didn't show up in the results of the games so I struggle with understanding where and how they were better.

 

[Sprowl]

Oh c'mon stop. I've been hearing this for years how Rondo makes his team better yet whenever he's out of the lineup the team wins games at a higher rate including last season when Jordan Crawford started and when Phil Pressey started.

If Rondo "clearly" made the Celtics better it sure didn't show up in the results of the games so I struggle with understanding where and how they were better.

 
Stop yourself. Look at who Rondo was held out against last year. It was a modified tanking strategy that kept the Celtics close enough to lose respectably against good teams with Rondo, and to lose respectably against bad teams without Rondo. Rondo clearly made certain Celtics better on offense because they need a playmaker. Bradley can't score inside without a well-timed pass on the cut. Green scores much better in transition when he gets the ball down low before the defense has a chance to set up. If you can't see that, then I wouldn't put much stock in your eye test.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

 
Stop yourself. Look at who Rondo was held out against last year. It was a modified tanking strategy that kept the Celtics close enough to lose respectably against good teams with Rondo, and to lose respectably against bad teams without Rondo. Rondo clearly made certain Celtics better on offense because they need a playmaker. Bradley can't score inside without a well-timed pass on the cut. Green scores much better in transition when he gets the ball down low before the defense has a chance to set up. If you can't see that, then I wouldn't put much stock in your eye test.

Sprowl, I apologize how I came across there. It wasn't meant to appear like I was attacking you.

We saw the Celtics struggle scoring in the half court down the stretch of games WITH Rondo last year as well as without. The results showed this and they matched my eye test. As far as who we held Rondo out against it was already pre-determined he wouldn't play in B2B games.

We were 6-24 in the games Rondo played last year.....the majority vs EC teams. Those 6 wins included Orlando, Philadelphia, and Detroit. I can't buy the case that he made us better.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Why would the C's hold on to Rondo now?  They need to see if Smart can play at the NBA level, Rondo is going to cost a lot to resign and its not clear if he is the type of player that the Celtics can contend with going forward (they will never again have the types of players they had in Garnett, Pierce and Allen).  
 
Ben McLemore (who might be moved for J-Smoove instead of Rondo) isn't a great return but with team control of the guy for the next three seasons, he represents the type of asset that '86 has shown a penchant for accumulating.  I would be shocked and a bit disappointed if Rondo is playing for the Celtics beyond next season's trade deadline.  He is worth more to them going forward in terms of the warm bodies he nets vs anything he can do on the court.  And I say this as a huge fan of his...

 

[wutang112878]

Just another option to consider although its probably just as difficult as trying to find a player swap with Rondo where you get value.  But perhaps you could move him for 2 first rounders in next years draft and then we would have 4 first rounders and then if Danny can flip those 4 picks he might be able to turn that into a top 3 pick and/or without Rondo they might be in the top 3 with their own pick next year.
 
Now, the Celts dont match up with any of the teams with multiple first rounders:
 
Atlanta has their own & Brooklyn
Chicago has their own, Sacramento & Cleveland
Cleveland has Memphis & Miami but owes Chicago
Phoenix has their own, Minny's & Lakers
 
None of these teams in PGs, but if you found a 3 way deal to send Rondo to team X who sends something to any of these 4 teams and Team X gives you their 2015 1st and one of the teams above gives you a 2015 first, and to facilitate that we would probably have to take on some bad salary then we would have 4 2015 1sts (these 2 + ours + Clippers + 0.000001% chance we get Philly's if its 13 or later).
 
The more I type the more I realize this is a real out there idea, but having another option on the table isnt a bad thing.

 

[Blacken]

The value of first rounders has risen so precipitously that I have a hard time seeing any team trading two firsts in the same draft for any player not named LeBron or Durant. If they could get firsts for their assets, almost every team would rather that than pick up a top 40-ish player like Rondo.

 

[wutang112878]

In my 1% chance of happening scenario, I am suggesting you pick up one first from one of the teams above with multiples and another first from the team that ultimately gets Rondo, so no one is giving up multiple firsts. 
 
And the value of 1sts at the top of the draft is high, but considering the miss rate the value in the 2nd half really isnt that special.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Just another option to consider although its probably just as difficult as trying to find a player swap with Rondo where you get value.  But perhaps you could move him for 2 first rounders in next years draft and then we would have 4 first rounders and then if Danny can flip those 4 picks he might be able to turn that into a top 3 pick and/or without Rondo they might be in the top 3 with their own pick next year.
 
Now, the Celts dont match up with any of the teams with multiple first rounders:
 
Atlanta has their own & Brooklyn
Chicago has their own, Sacramento & Cleveland
Cleveland has Memphis & Miami but owes Chicago
Phoenix has their own, Minny's & Lakers
 
None of these teams in PGs, but if you found a 3 way deal to send Rondo to team X who sends something to any of these 4 teams and Team X gives you their 2015 1st and one of the teams above gives you a 2015 first, and to facilitate that we would probably have to take on some bad salary then we would have 4 2015 1sts (these 2 + ours + Clippers + 0.000001% chance we get Philly's if its 13 or later).
 
The more I type the more I realize this is a real out there idea, but having another option on the table isnt a bad thing.

The problem is finding a destination that a) has a PG need, b) values Rondo highly, c) is willing to pay him close to max to avoid him hitting FA, and d) has to be a destination Rondo agrees to remain.

The time to get value for Rondo ended 2 years ago imo and Ainge missed the boat on this one.

 

[wutang112878]

The problem is finding a destination that a) has a PG need, b) values Rondo highly, c) is willing to pay him close to max to avoid him hitting FA, and d) has to be a destination Rondo agrees to remain.

The time to get value for Rondo ended 2 years ago imo and Ainge missed the boat on this one.

 
I was saying the exact same thing about KG & PP until the Nets trade which seemed like a fantasy.
 
On B, C, and D yup these are problems.  And another option the Celts have is letting him hit free agency and then hoping there is a team over the cap that wants to sign him and working out a sign and trade to get some type of asset that way.  Unless we find the perfect situation to trade him to, all of these options really suck in some way.

 

[ALiveH]

At this point I'd be pretty psyched just to get 1 mid-1st round pick for Rondo.
Unless we're acquiring some superstar (Love / Anthony / whoever) this offseason and have a contender within the next 2 years, while Rondo is still in his 20s, then Rondo literally has zero value to this team.  He'll be winning us a few extra games next year when we're supposed to be trying to tank and then he'll demand to be overpayed to stay in an unhappy rebuilding situation during the last of his prime years.  One could even argue he has negative value to us in this scenario.

 

[ifmanis5]

I don't think Ben Mac is much but if that's all you can get for Rondo on the open market, that says a lot about Rondo's value at the moment.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

This is the new Rondo rumor floating around today: http://greenstreet.weei.com/sports/boston/basketball/celtics/2014/06/30/cedric-maxwell-rajon-rondo-requested-100-million-contract/.
 
I don't even think it's possible for Rondo to get to $100 million, given where his current contract stands, so Maxwell may be wrong on this. He can get 5 years with a 7.5% raise on 13,000,000. Maybe Maxwell used the word "extension" when he meant that Rondo just wanted a max contract at the end of next season. Either way, if there's any truth to the 100 million dollar number, Rondo's as good as gone.

 

[BigMike]

This is the new Rondo rumor floating around today: http://greenstreet.weei.com/sports/boston/basketball/celtics/2014/06/30/cedric-maxwell-rajon-rondo-requested-100-million-contract/.
 
I don't even think it's possible for Rondo to get to $100 million, given where his current contract stands, so Maxwell may be wrong on this. He can get 5 years with a 7.5% raise on 13,000,000. Maybe Maxwell used the word "extension" when he meant that Rondo just wanted a max contract at the end of next season. Either way, if there's any truth to the 100 million dollar number, Rondo's as good as gone.

 
 
It may well be what he wants at this point, and the 100Mil was a shot across the bow to nudge it along.   He also probably wants to make it real clear he isn't going to be signable to suitors who aren't the one(s) he wants to go to.  He probably has a place or two in mind, where he wants to go. 

 

[wutang112878]

Max had to have meant a max contract.  Its great that team Rondo is so delusional because $100M is Chris Paul money, good luck getting that.

 

[zenter]

Max had to have meant a max contract.  Its great that team Rondo is so delusional because $100M is Chris Paul money, good luck getting that.

 
OR... It's an opening position to level-set and indicate how much of a "discount" Rondo takes when all is said and done. Given that all negotiations start at absurd points (see: Jon Lester), there is nothing to see here.

 

[wutang112878]

In this case though its a bit of a calculated risk because if you really want a max deal and you want to have some say in where you get it, then you have to work somewhat nicely with the team that holds your rights.  Rondo has to leave significant dollars on the table if he isnt resigning but instead leaving in free agency.  So if he wants the max he either has to get the Celts to agree to it, and if they wont then he has to work with them, and not against them, to get him to a team that he would both be happy taking the max from and who would be willing to give it to him.  As it currently stands, both the Celts and Rondo have the power to really ruin his chances of getting a max deal.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

It had been leaked over the past couple years with whispers that Rondo will want a max deal which is what is making him virtually untradeable as no team in their right mind want to give us value for the right to overpay him or have him leave via FA. This isn't a surprise and it's why we drafted a PG in the lottery.

He's been as good as gone for 2 years now imo and I was only hoping it was sooner to get a return rather than later for minimal sign-n-trade or nothing in exchange. The ACL didn't help this timeline.

 

[kazuneko]

Looks like the Cs are trying to trade Rondo in a sign and trade for Isaiah Thomas...
http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/celtics_blog/2014/07/celtics_begin_free_agency_by_recruiting_isaiah_thomas_raisin.html?p1=Topopage:Carousel_lead_headline

 

[kazuneko]

Per Mark Stein (via rotoworld)
"The Pacers have reportedly reached out to the Celtics in an effort to construct a multi-team trade that would presumably land Goran Dragic in Indiana. In the latest incarnation of this rumor, the Suns would land Rondo (who coincidentally drafted him), while the Celtics' proposed return is unclear at the moment. The one thing that is clear is that the Pacers are all-in on a point guard upgrade and George Hill may soon be left without a starting job. Jul 3 - 11:16 AM"

 

[ifmanis5]

The Kings just moved Thomas to Phoenix. Their desire for Rondo may have increased.

 

[bbc23]

The Kings just moved Thomas to Phoenix. Their desire for Rondo may have increased.

They also already signed Darren Collison as a prelude to that move so I doubt it.  

 

[Devizier]

The Kings just moved Thomas to Phoenix. Their desire for Rondo may have increased.

 
That must mean Bledsoe is heading elsewhere. Or perhaps Dragic is the one getting shipped out?

 

[Reardon's Beard]

Sounds to me like Indiana, Phoenix, Houston, and Sacramento are all potential landing spots at this point.
 
Now - where can we get the best return?