Trading Rondo...

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Wright would represent an improvement defensively at the 5 over anything the Celts currently have.  Zeller's been alright but he's still best-suited as a reserve.  And is going to have a lot fewer easy opportunities when Rondo is moved.
 
Yeah, I need to look up stats before I post.  But, maybe Rondo's all-around game helps them more than Nelson's in the playoffs?

 
Maybe? I don't really know what we mean by "all-around game" though. Rondo's really just not a good defender right now, and hasn't been for several years. Maybe that's an effort thing, and the Mavs are banking on his ability to turn that on come playoff time, but I'd be very concerned that a lot of the defensive impact the numbers assigned him early in his career was a symptom of advanced stats not doing a great job of being able to recognize where Garnett's impact began/ended. That's just a theory, of course, and nothing I've really made an attempt to look into, but it feels like Rondo's a really odd gamble for Dallas. They're gambling A) that their league best offense isn't hindered by adjusting to a new point guard and/or B) that the point guard they acquired isn't the mediocre defensive player he's appeared to be and just needs to up his effort level. Feels like the upside is really limited here, and I think losing Wright actually hurts Dallas a lot more than people would realize. Triply so if Chandler doesn't stay healthy. Chandler was a corpse by the end of the last couple of seasons in New York.

 

[amfox1]

ProBasketballTalk ‏@nbcprobballtalk  22m22 minutes ago
Report: Lakers offered Steve Nash, draft picks for Rondo http://wp.me/p14QT0-32ZL 

 

[swingin val]

Lakers want him so they can have his Bird Rights and sign him for 5 years at the max?

God I hope so

 

[fairlee76]

So Nash and picks to the Celts and we hope that no big name FAs (Love?) sign there this offseason?  Can the Rockets 2015 pick owed to the Lakers be included in a trade?
 
A Rondo/Bryant core going forward would be great for the Celtics if this trade materializes.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Dallas Mavericks Twitter followers

Clearly, TMac and Popeye Jones are going to become Mavericks too.

 

[zenter]

Lakers want him so they can have his Bird Rights and sign him for 5 years at the max?

God I hope so

 
IIRC (not up on my CBAFAQ), it's any 5 year extension, which means they can spread money out, rely on TV deal to make the contract completely manageable.
 

So Nash and picks to the Celts and we hope that no big name FAs (Love?) sign there this offseason?  Can the Rockets 2015 pick owed to the Lakers be included in a trade?
 
A Rondo/Bryant core going forward would be great for the Celtics if this trade materializes.

 
On the one hand, yes. Kobe professes to love Rondo, though, so who knows.
 
I'm caught on what the Lakers really can offer. There aren't a lot in the way of picks. I have to assume a 3rd (or fourth) team is involved so everyone gets what they want.

 

[amfox1]

Should note that HOU and LAL picks may be restricted.  DAL has no restrictions on trading its 1st round picks.
 
HOU - traded their 2015 1st round pick (top 14 protected in 2015, top 10 in 2016/2017, top 5 in 2018/2019, top 3 in 2020) to LAL, have NO's 2015 1st round pick (top 3 & top 20-30 protected).  No restrictions on future 1st round picks.
 
LAL - traded their 2015 1st round pick (top 5 protected) to PHX, have HOU's 2015 1st round pick (see above for restrictions), traded their 2017 1st round pick (top 5 protected, in which case it converts into 2017/2018 2nd round picks) to ORL.

 

[RedOctober3829]

@ChrisMannixSI: Boston remains engaged with multiple teams beyond Dallas/Houston on Rondo, per sources. Said one rival exec: "They are aggressive."

 

[RedOctober3829]

@WojYahooNBA: Sacramento's discussed Rondo w/ Celtics in past, but Boston's asking price is too high for Kings to re-start talks now, sources tell Yahoo.

 

[amfox1]

 
I'm caught on what the Lakers really can offer. There aren't a lot in the way of picks. I have to assume a 3rd (or fourth) team is involved so everyone gets what they want.

 
LAL can trade (1) the incoming HOU pick, whenever received, (2) the 2017 ORL pick if it top 5 only (assuming the 2015 PHX pick is sent this year) and/or (3) 2019 and later 1st round picks.
 
My guess is that any LAL trade would be for Nash, the HOU pick (as of 12/17, pick 28) and a 2019 pick.
 
***
 
BOS's current picks
2015 1st round picks (BOS & LAC), plus 2nd round picks (BOS & PHI +WAS 2nd round pick, top 49 protected) (as of 12/17, picks 10, 24, 31, 40, 55)
2016 1st round picks (BOS, CLE (top 10 protected in 16/17/18, unprotected in 19) & BRK) (plus PHI/MIA/CLE 2nd round picks – no BOS 2nd round pick)
2017 1st round pick (higher of BOS & BRK), will lose 2nd round pick if #46+ and if BOS switches 1st round picks w/BRK, plus CLE 2nd round pick
2018 1st round picks (BOS & BRK), plus 2nd round pick

 

[fairlee76]

 
Maybe? I don't really know what we mean by "all-around game" though. Rondo's really just not a good defender right now, and hasn't been for several years. Maybe that's an effort thing, and the Mavs are banking on his ability to turn that on come playoff time, but I'd be very concerned that a lot of the defensive impact the numbers assigned him early in his career was a symptom of advanced stats not doing a great job of being able to recognize where Garnett's impact began/ended. That's just a theory, of course, and nothing I've really made an attempt to look into, but it feels like Rondo's a really odd gamble for Dallas. They're gambling A) that their league best offense isn't hindered by adjusting to a new point guard and/or B) that the point guard they acquired isn't the mediocre defensive player he's appeared to be and just needs to up his effort level. Feels like the upside is really limited here, and I think losing Wright actually hurts Dallas a lot more than people would realize. Triply so if Chandler doesn't stay healthy. Chandler was a corpse by the end of the last couple of seasons in New York.

I am most likely over-rating Rondo's game, specifically his ability to defend, based on biases attained in the 2010 - 2012 time span.  But, yeah, I do think he could be more of a difference-maker than Nelson in the postseason.  I'm thinking more about his playmaking abilities than anything else.  And on defense, I don't think Rondo is a downgrade from Nelson.  At worst, that is a wash.
 
Absolutely right about not being able to quantify the KG effect and I did not take into account Wright's impact as a back-up to Chandler or replacement should Chandler gets injured.  That's a definite consideration.

 

[triniSox]

From my perspective as a Mavs fan, a few thoughts:
 
1. Anyone who just looks at Wright's raw numbers are missing out how efficient he is (great PER). But maybe this is his ceiling - a great bench piece.
2. Rondo may have declined defensively but he is a sure upgrade over anyone the Mavs have run out there at PG - in fact the Mavs backcourt has been very subpar defensively and have been exploited by PGs in the West like Paul, Dragic, Curry, Westbrook, Parker. I have no doubt that even if Rondo has slipped defensively, he'd be able to help against these guys.
3. This will affect the efficient Mavs offense BUT I always trust Carlisle to run an efficient offense even with non-ideal player fits. I'd bet he makes it work sufficiently anyways. 
4. Sadly, I'm not hopeful the Mavs have enough to get this deal done. Wright is awesome but so far he's a career bench guy - maybe he can step as a quality starter but that's an unknown. It'd be Wright, veteran pu-pu platter and some crappy picks (unless they are in 2018 or so)

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

I am most likely over-rating Rondo's game, specifically his ability to defend, based on biases attained in the 2010 - 2012 time span.  But, yeah, I do think he could be more of a difference-maker than Nelson in the postseason.  I'm thinking more about his playmaking abilities than anything else.  And on defense, I don't think Rondo is a downgrade from Nelson.  At worst, that is a wash.
 
Absolutely right about not being able to quantify the KG effect and I did not take into account Wright's impact as a back-up to Chandler or replacement should Chandler gets injured.  That's a definite consideration.

 
Think the possibility of "playoff Rondo" showing up has to factor heavily into their calculus, but man. . .you have to take a pretty serious leap of faith to assume you can get him out of his own head, fix this free throw issue, and get him to a point where he's confident enough to attack the basket the way he did in playoffs of yore. To some extent, Dallas probably recognizes that they're realistically not good enough to beat Memphis/OKC/Golden State/SA, etc. in the playoffs and this is basically a hail mary with limited downside for them. So I get it, mostly.

 

[fairlee76]

 
IIRC (not up on my CBAFAQ), it's any 5 year extension, which means they can spread money out, rely on TV deal to make the contract completely manageable.
 
 
On the one hand, yes. Kobe professes to love Rondo, though, so who knows.
 
I'm caught on what the Lakers really can offer. There aren't a lot in the way of picks. I have to assume a 3rd (or fourth) team is involved so everyone gets what they want.

If it is a core of Rondo/Bryant going forward, I would gladly roll the dice on their draft position versus that of the Mavericks.  The Lakers have their own picks in 2016 and beyond, right?

 

[dylanmarsh]

Dallas Mavericks Twitter followers

Clearly, TMac and Popeye Jones are going to become Mavericks too.

https://twitter.com/suns/status/545679900963643392
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https://twitter.com/suns/status/545679900963643392"]link

link to tweet to tweet[/url]

 

[amfox1]

If it is a core of Rondo/Bryant going forward, I would gladly roll the dice on their draft position versus that of the Mavericks.  The Lakers have their own picks in 2016 and beyond, right?

 
Check post #480.

 

[the1andonly3003]

 
 

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link to tweet
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are others really giving credence to the fact that Dallas followed Rondo, that they are trading for him? It just sounds dumb on F&M

 

[RedOctober3829]

https://twitter.com/suns/status/545679900963643392
https://twitter.com/suns/status/545679900963643392

https://twitter.com/suns/status/545679900963643392

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That's great.

 

[fairlee76]

 
Check post #480.

So the LAL return would be Nash, HOU first-round pick this year, and an LAL first rounder or two down the line?  LAL cannot trade 2016 first-rounder because of consecutive pick rule, right?

 

[amfox1]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA  17m17 minutes ago
Dallas is emerging as the frontrunner in pursuit of a deal to acquire Boston's Rajon Rondo, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.
 
Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA  14m14 minutes ago
Lakers and Knicks declined to be part of three-way deals that could've sent Rondo elsewhere, league sources tell Yahoo.
 
Marc J. Spears ‏@SpearsNBAYahoo  13m13 minutes ago
With Dallas in the lead, the Rockets are also “still fighting” to acquire Celtics point guard Rajon Rondo, a source said.
 
Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA  1m1 minute ago
Seems to be some urgency on Boston's part to get a Rondo deal done - anyone acquired in trade needs 60 days before re-tradable in a package

 

[amfox1]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA  3m3 minutes ago
In Rondo talks, Boston and Dallas discussing package including Brandan Wright, Jae Crowder and a first-round pick, sources tell Yahoo.
 
Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA  1m1 minute ago
Dallas' 2015 first-round pick is part of proposed Rondo deal, and there could be further draft considerations as part of a package.
 
Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA  29s29 seconds ago
There could be more players and picks involved in a larger deal, but those mentioned have been major part of talks, sources said.

 

[amfox1]

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/celtics_insider/2014/12/celtics_likely_to_trade_rajon_rondo_within_days
 

It appears that it will be an upset if Rajon Rondo is still a Celtic by the end of Friday.
 
League sources are telling the Herald that the Celts are fully prepared and willing to make a move right now with their best player, believing that, despite what Rondo says about wanting to re-sign here when he becomes an unrestricted free agent this summer, it will be hard for the club to compete with more inviting situations elsewhere once he begins being recruited.

The three teams in the running for Rondo at present are Dallas, Houston and the Lakers. (Sacramento has shown no interest.) The composition of the offers has been shifting, and there have been talks about expanding the deal beyond Rondo to make it more attractive to the Celtics.
 

Involved sources are saying that Celtics president of basketball operations Danny Ainge is focused on potentially high draft picks. He is not expecting to get a major player in return, and, in fact, anyone coming to Boston would almost certainly be on an expiring or limited contract.
"Danny's not interested in players," a league source told the Herald. "He just wants future assets."
 

But word is the club has come to believe the opposite, that the offers they receive now may be the best they will get -- and could even diminish over the next several weeks.
 

 

[RedOctober3829]

@WojYahooNBA: Boston has reached the point of no return on a Rondo deal and Danny Ainge is moving fast toward sifting offers and making his best deal.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Interesting note from Zach Lowe's podcast today:
 
He said he thinks it is an overpay, but the Lakers can trade the rights to this year's pick (if it falls in the top 5). I don't think the Lakers do it, and the other issue is that with Rondo they probably don't come top 5.

 

[amfox1]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA  6m6 minutes ago
The reality is this: Rondo's value no longer dictates an All-Star in return, and waiting until the trade deadline won't improve packages.

 

[amfox1]

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine  42s43 seconds ago
ESPN sources say Mavericks and Celtics are progressing toward completion of Rajon Rondo trade tonight
 
Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine  4s4 seconds ago
ESPN sources say teams closing in on swap to send Brandan Wright, Jae Crowder, Jameer Nelson, one future first & one future second to Celts

 

[ifmanis5]

Agreed with the above Woj post on value and that's why something will happen sooner than later. Also, no way Lakers give up picks for Rondo since they are very confident they can sign him FA. I guess they could always make a panic move but I don't see it.

 

[RedOctober3829]

@ESPNSteinLine: ESPN sources say Mavericks and Celtics are progressing toward completion of Rajon Rondo trade tonight

 

[RedOctober3829]

@WojYahooNBA: Boston's informed teams it's focused on completing deal with Dallas soon, closing on a package to send Rajon Rondo to Mavs, sources tell Y.

 

[Murby]

 
Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine  42s43 seconds ago
ESPN sources say Mavericks and Celtics are progressing toward completion of Rajon Rondo trade tonight
 
Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine  4s4 seconds ago
ESPN sources say teams closing in on swap to send Brandan Wright, Jae Crowder, Jameer Nelson, one future first & one future second to Celts
 

 
Being no fan of Rajon, I kind of like this deal. Moreover, if completed tonight, it would allow them to trade any of those players before the deadline. Not bad. 

 

[nattysez]

I always knew the years after the Big Three were broken up would be rough, but this really stinks (not the trade return, just that the Celts are wheeling and dealing and getting weaker short-term). 

 

[RedOctober3829]

@SherrodbCSN: #Celtics Rajon Rondo is bracing himself for a trade to Dallas that's looking like it'll go down within the next 24-48 hours, says sources.

 

[ifmanis5]

I'm on board with this. Wouldn't mind seeing Green & Bass moved as well.

 

[amfox1]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA  1m1 minute ago
Rajon Rondo and his reps made it clear to Dallas that the All-Star guard would be inclined to sign Mavs extension this summer, sources said.

 

[RedOctober3829]

@WojYahooNBA: Rajon Rondo and his reps made it clear to Dallas that the All-Star guard would be inclined to sign Mavs extension this summer, sources said.

 

[amfox1]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA  7m7 minutes ago
Boston will send Rajon Rondo and Dwight Powell to Dallas for Brandan Wright, Jae Crowder, Jamar Nelson, 2015 first-round and future second.

 

[Infield Infidel]

29 Rondo trades that didn't happen
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/12/18/7418339/rajon-rondo-trade-rumors-history-celtics

 

[Devizier]

29 Rondo trades that didn't happen
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/12/18/7418339/rajon-rondo-trade-rumors-history-celtics

 
A lot of "never gonna happens" in there, but a few that caught my eye:
 

5. Memphis Grizzlies:
The Celtics scoffed with vigor Tuesday night when we presented them with a Rajon Rondo/Brian Scalabrine-for-Rudy Gay/Mike Conley scenario -Marc Stein, ESPN

 
Missed opportunity for sure; Conley turned out to be a pretty great point guard in his own right, and maybe Gay turns it around earlier in his career in a swingman role with the Celtics.
 

6. Detroit Pistons:
The Celtics offered Ray Allen and Rajon Rondo to the Detroit Pistons for a package that included Richard Hamilton, Tayshaun Prince and Rodney Stuckey, league sources told Yahoo! Sports. -Adrian Wojnarowski

 
Thank God Dumars rejected that one. I remember these rumors at the time and I hated, hated, hated them. Hamilton was already toast by the end of 2009, and Prince was not far behind. Stuckey continued his career arc as decent third guard. Sometimes when you offer something stupid, you get bailed out by the even stupider person on the other end of the line. Ainge got let off the hook big time.