Kevin Love News and Rumors

[DannyDarwinism]

I was using FTr. which is FTA per FGA. he went .127, .130, .147 in that.

 
I see, that's a better stat.  Looking at some other SG/SFs, his FTr is still quite low, but Batum is another guy with similarly low FT numbers who shoots a lot of threes, and I like him a lot.  He's a better passer, rebounder and I suspect he's a better defender, but Klay's superior shooting and his ability to take great care of the ball may make up for it.  FWIW, Pelton (and WARP) loved Batum at his current contract.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Using dRating, Thompson is as good as Batum.

His flaws are ball-handling, and finishing but he showed enough improvement last season to merit bullishness on his game. He won't wow anyone with his athleticism but he has the potential to be a top mid-tier NBA player.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Also, GS does this trade because while Thompson and Lee are a lot of offense to give up, a lineup of Bogut-Love-Green-Iguodala-Curry would be good enough offensively while Bogut-Iguodala-Green would be shut-down defensively. Curry and Love would feast on the transition opportunities.

 

[E5 Yaz]

According to Chad Ford of ESPN, via NBC Sports’ Dan Feldman, Chicago has offered forward-center Taj Gibson, small forward Tony Snell and the Nos. 16 and 19 picks in this year’s draft to Minnesota for a deal that would involve Love going to the Bulls.
 

 
 
http://tracking.si.com/2014/06/23/bulls-offer-taj-gibson-tony-snell-draft-pick-kevin-love-timberwolves-nba/?eref=sihp

 

[jsinger121]

That's total junk offered by Chicago.

 

[moondog80]

That's total junk offered by Chicago.

Gibson isn't junk, but he's 29 years old, so not likely to improve and doesn't fit with a rebuild timeline.

 

[AlNipper49]

That's like doing a fantasy baseball trade in a public ESPN league bad.

 

[zenter]

Gibson isn't junk, but he's 29 years old, so not likely to improve and doesn't fit with a rebuild timeline.

It's junk relative to the reported Celtics offer and the Wolves reported demand for quality assets right now. Sully / Olynyk each has upside (unlike Gibson), and the #6 pick has more value. As I see it, the equivalent Celtics offer is Jeff Green, Phil Pressey, the #17, and the Clippers pick.

 

[jsinger121]

Gibson isn't junk, but he's 29 years old, so not likely to improve and doesn't fit with a rebuild timeline.

 
He's junk in that he had never averaged more than 13 points a game which was this season at age 29. If he's the center piece of the deal then that is a laughable package by the Bulls and a terrible job by Flip Saunders if he took that.

 

[ALiveH]

Snell isn't total garbage as a prospect, but Olynyk or Sullinger are better.
 
Either the #6 or Sullinger are better than any of those assets in the Bulls offer.  #6 + #17 + Olynyk hopefully would get it done.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Please. That Bulls offer is terrible. The Celtics offer has younger players with potential and multiple picks higher than anything the Bulls offer. At this point I think Flip is just fucking with all of us.

 

[wutang112878]

The Bulls offer is like a Quarter and 3 dimes for a dollar, that makes no sense.  Gibson at best is just a starter on a title team and certainly cant be one of your best 3 players on that team.  Minny would be trading a star for depth and you just cant do that, you cant.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Please. That Bulls offer is terrible. The Celtics offer has younger players with potential and multiple picks higher than anything the Bulls offer. At this point I think Flip is just fucking with all of us.

I really wonder if Minnesota ownership is still a little peaved at the highway robbery Ainge committed on them 5 years ago.

 

[The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa]

 
According to Chad Ford of ESPN, via NBC Sports’ Dan Feldman, Chicago has offered forward-center Taj Gibson, small forward Tony Snell and the Nos. 16 and 19 picks in this year’s draft to Minnesota for a deal that would involve Love going to the Bulls.
 
http://tracking.si.com/2014/06/23/bulls-offer-taj-gibson-tony-snell-draft-pick-kevin-love-timberwolves-nba/?eref=sihp
 

 
I love these pu pu platter rumors. I wonder if Chicago is throwing in a signed Michael Jordan jersey as well, it might be the most valuable piece of this package.

 

[gammoseditor]

I really wonder if Minnesota ownership is still a little peaved at the highway robbery Ainge committed on them 5 years ago.

 
If they had kept Al Jefferson and Gerald Green then Kevin Love might not be looking for a way out.

 

[The Social Chair]

or they could have drafted Curry and Cousins instead of Jonny Flynn and Wesley Johnson. The Wolves are a joke.

 

[Devizier]

Minnesota could have also kept Ty Lawson.
 
Hard to bag on them for Derrick Williams though, because that draft was horrible.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Flynn was legit though at least on par with Curry. His hip injury ended his career although one can say the Wolves should have known more about his pre-existing issues. So explosive and a natural leader.

 

[The Social Chair]

It still doesn't make sense though. You either draft Rubio/Curry or Flynn/Curry. Rubio/Flynn made little sense. If they needed a PG while Rubio was in Spain then they could have kept Lawson.

 

[Stitch01]

http://www.thescore.com/nba/news/526091
 
Looks like the Warriors are the front runners

 

[Devizier]

Hah! Terrible deal for the 'Wolves.

 

[Reardon's Beard]

http://www.thescore.com/nba/news/526091
 
Looks like the Warriors are the front runners

 
Unless they're just trying to put pressure on Boston. I hope that's the case - would hate to lose the Love sweepstakes.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Unless they're just trying to put pressure on Boston. I hope that's the case - would hate to lose the Love sweepstakes.

When he forces his way to the Lakers next year, you'll be happy it didn't happen.

 

[jon abbey]

Zach Lowe had a very good piece on a potential Love/Thompson deal earlier today, detractors of Thompson should read this as it gets into his plusses and minuses very accurately IMO:
 
http://grantland.com/features/kevin-love-klay-thompson-golden-state-warriors/

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Zach Lowe had a very good piece on a potential Love/Thompson deal earlier today, detractors of Thompson should read this as it gets into his plusses and minuses very accurately IMO:
 
http://grantland.com/features/kevin-love-klay-thompson-golden-state-warriors/

 
 
Zach Lowe is the best NBA writer by a wide margin these days.  He is spot on about Thompson - he is a very good player and all things considered, it is NOT a terrible deal for the Timberwolves.  Its not a rebuilding deal like the C's are offering but we already covered the relative merits of each trade.  I know this site has its share of prospect-humpers and I enjoy watching young players develop into stars as much as anyone else.  However you can see how the T-Wolves might not want to go through yet another rebuild when they can source better than average known NBA talent right now.
 
The thing that people are ignoring is that David Lee is a very good offensive PF.  He can score with both hands around the basket, he rebounds decently and while his defense is poor, its not like the guy he is replacing is a wizard.  In short, Lee will give Minnesota ~ .70-80% of Love's production.  Furthermore, he is a great team guy so its not like the T-Wolves are getting completely rooked here - and they have him for two more years which gives them a window to be a playoff team and hopefully acquire other parts elsewhere.  Thompson is a huge upgrade for them on the wing.  Its not inconceivable that they make the playoffs and even win a round with a core of Pekovic, Lee, Thompson, Rubio and Brewer (they will need bench help - my God that bench is fucking putrid).  
 
Would you or I do this trade?  Probably not but then again, unlike Flip Saunders, you don't have to balance retooling a franchise that is about to lose its only star player while trying to win fans back after perpetually rebuilding and failing each time, over the past eight years.

 

[Statman]

If Thompson is indeed on the table then that is a likely the best deal Minnesota could get for Love. We are all Boston homers but there is no way the Celtics can match anything close to that offer.

 

[Devizier]

I just don't see Thompson as a particularly great basketball player. Not that the Celtics deal is all that terrific, either.

I just don't know what Minnesota is building towards, here. Golden State pre-Curry?

 

[Ed Hillel]

I just don't see Thompson as a particularly great basketball player. Not that the Celtics deal is all that terrific, either.

I just don't know what Minnesota is building towards, here. Golden State pre-Curry?

It's not just that, it's that he's an RFA next season and they will either lose him or likely have to overpay him long-term. Since the T Wolves aren't going to compete this year, the potential for them is to have someone eating up too much cap space for the foreseeable future. I can't see how that's a better option than high draft picks and Sullinger, but that's fine with me. I don't think Love is a good fit for Boston right now anyway.

 

[DannyDarwinism]

Yeah, that's another great piece from Lowe.  It's interesting that he speculates that Klay's next contract will start off at around 10 million and then goes on to say he'll likely be overpaid.  He fits that Warriors team so well.  If they manage to land Love, it's crazy to think that they could be even more fun to watch on offense next year.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

It still doesn't make sense though. You either draft Rubio/Curry or Flynn/Curry. Rubio/Flynn made little sense. If they needed a PG while Rubio was in Spain then they could have kept Lawson.

Sure it did. They were looking to add a stud PG and use the other one to bring back a star frontcourt player since there wasn't any available in that backcourt-rich draft. Let's not forget that MANY people had questions about Curry being able to succeed at this level due to him being so frail at the time and whether he could defend his position......hindsight is 20/20.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I just don't see Thompson as a particularly great basketball player. Not that the Celtics deal is all that terrific, either.

I just don't know what Minnesota is building towards, here. Golden State pre-Curry?

A playoff appearance is probably the extent of the short term goals.
 
Assuming a trade of Love and Martin for Lee, Thompson, filler (Kuzmic's non-guaranteed deal makes it work) and a protected 1st......
 
PG: Rubio/Barea
SG: Thompson/Muhammed/Shved
SF: Brewer/Buddinger/Hummel
PF: Lee/Mbah a Moute
C: Pekovic/Dieng/Turiaf
 
Probably not an 8 seed there, talent might be in the neighborhood, but depth is not great, even when you add whoever they draft 13.
However going forward it is probably a playoff contender once they lock up Thompson and Rubio.
They'll have Rubio/Thompson/Pek long term, with some young guys with potential (Dieng, Muhammed, 13) They'll also have a lot of trade flexibility between picks, Lee, a bunch of expirings.

 

[ALiveH]

That Wolves team would definitely not be an 8 seed in the west.  the starting unit is about league average.  the reserves (apart from Dieng) are awful and would lose them a ton of games.

 

[MakMan44]

That Wolves team would definitely not be an 8 seed in the west.  the starting unit is about league average.  the reserves (apart from Dieng) are awful and would lose them a ton of games.

So 100% like this years team. 

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

That Wolves team would definitely not be an 8 seed in the west.  the starting unit is about league average.  the reserves (apart from Dieng) are awful and would lose them a ton of games.

 
Agree to disagree.  The addition of Lee plus Thompson makes them deeper than with just Love.  They were in the running for the playoffs this season until the last few weeks and it was Pekovic, Love, Brewer, Martin and Rubio, who wasn't very good.  Love is clearly better than Lee but Thompson has more upside than Martin and is, at the very least, a much better defender.    As has been noted, if they can get some bench help, they are in the mix.    If Dallas and/or Memphis take a step back, they have a shot.  

 

[radsoxfan]

 
Agree to disagree.  The addition of Lee plus Thompson makes them deeper than with just Love.
 

 
Why deeper?  Martin and Love is the same depth as Thompson and Lee. 
 
I think Thompson is a nice player, but I don't think he is not even a huge step up from Martin. He is certainly younger, and has more upside (though you'll be paying top dollar for it soon), but I think he is still overrated by plenty of people around here. More importantly,  the downgrade from Love to Lee is significantly bigger than the upgrade from Martin to Thompson in my opinion.
 
I think the GSW trade is Flip's best bet to stay afloat in the West next season, but long term, it's getting them nowhere.  Their best hope for the future is getting #6 from the Celtics this season,  and convincing Danny to throw in an unprotected Nets pick or two. None of these rumored GSW or Bulls trades has much of a chance to turn them into a real contender. 

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

 
Why deeper?  Martin and Love is the same depth as Thompson and Lee. 
 
I think Thompson is a nice player, but I don't think he is not even a huge step up from Martin. He is certainly younger, and has more upside (though you'll be paying top dollar for it soon), but I think he is still overrated by plenty of people around here. More importantly,  the downgrade from Love to Lee is significantly bigger than the upgrade from Martin to Thompson in my opinion.
 
I think the GSW trade is Flip's best bet to stay afloat in the West next season, but long term, it's getting them nowhere.  Their best hope for the future is getting #6 from the Celtics this season,  and convincing Danny to throw in an unprotected Nets pick or two. None of these rumored GSW or Bulls trades has much of a chance to turn them into a real contender. 

 
Well, I think Thompson is a superior player to Martin now when you factor in defense and and his superior outside shooting.    I also think people here discount Lee too much - I've watched the guy play for the past few seasons and he is a very good NBA PF all things considered so I don't think this trade is awful from Minnesota's standpoint given Love's express desire to leave anyhow.
 
That said, regarding your second point, as a C's fan, I too am inclined to see the Boston package as superior.  But Minnesota can't just hit on a pick and then build around them (see Love, Kevin) because other picks don't pan out (see this thread as well as any of the others on the draft) and elite free agents aren't going to seriously consider the T-Wolves unless they happen to be close to a contender.    In other words, they have already tried that strategy and it got them to a point where there only star player is about to leave one way or another.
 
Does this proposed trade make Minnesota an instant contender or give the organization a long-term leg up?  Clearly, no.  But it at least makes them relevant and if they do the deal it will suggest that they value that over rolling the dice for the next three to five years in the hopes that they come up with a few star players in the draft.

 

[radsoxfan]

 
Well, I think Thompson is a superior player to Martin now when you factor in defense and and his superior outside shooting.    

 
I too would take Thompson over Martin. Age and defense matters.  But its worth noting Thompson is a career 44% 2PT/41% 3PT shooter, while Martin is a career 44% 2PT/39% 3PT shooter.
 
My main point is that Martin isn't so much worse that Thompson changes the "depth" of the team.  Overall the Wolves would improve moderately at SG, while getting worse by an even bigger amount at PF.  

 

[luckiestman]

I could see the wolves being a better team with klay and lee but I'd rather have neither and the money.

 

[knucklecup]

Klay Thompson defends better than Kevin Martin, which is about the only thing he's better than him at.

It's funny to see Martin's contract deemed horrible when in actuality, they would be trading Kevin Love to further overpay / give an even more team crippling contract for a different mediocre player.

I honestly can't tell what thought is more flawed if this is all true; the idea that Thompson wouldn't be expendable or that Minnesota would do this in the first place.

The whole trade idea is completely asinine.

I think the ramifications of a guy like Klay Thompson being deemed max worthy and on a similar pay scale to players far superior to him could lead to a work stoppage down the line. That's how horrifically awful this deal is for Minnesota.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Klay Thompson defends better than Kevin Martin, which is about the only thing he's better than him at.

It's funny to see Martin's contract deemed horrible when in actuality, they would be trading Kevin Love to further overpay / give an even more team crippling contract for a different mediocre player.

I honestly can't tell what thought is more flawed if this is all true; the idea that Thompson wouldn't be expendable or that Minnesota would do this in the first place.

The whole trade idea is completely asinine.

I think the ramifications of a guy like Klay Thompson being deemed max worthy and on a similar pay scale to players far superior to him could lead to a work stoppage down the line. That's how horrifically awful this deal is for Minnesota.

He's a much better defender, he also is more than 7 years younger, improving while Martin decline, last year he had a better assist rate, shot significantly better from the floor, both from 2 and 3. So no there are many ways in which Thompson is much better.

 

[knucklecup]

Eh, there's no doubt he's a better player. Significantly a better defender no doubt but the "this dudes slinging threes with hands in his face yo" approach that Lowe takes is again, what is entirely wrong with basketball statistics.

Would Kevin Martin have had as bad of a season as he had alongside Curry? Absolutely not.

Would Klay Thompson have a less efficient season alongside Rubio playing on an awful team? Absolutely.

 

[moondog80]

It's funny to see Martin's contract deemed horrible when in actuality, they would be trading Kevin Love to further overpay / give an even more team crippling contract for a different mediocre player.


I think the ramifications of a guy like Klay Thompson being deemed max worthy and on a similar pay scale to players far superior to him could lead to a work stoppage down the line. That's how horrifically awful this deal is for Minnesota.

 
Bingo.  Paying the wrong guy too much money is a hindrance in baseball, but it's crippling in basketball where a bad contract takes up a much bigger share of your payroll .

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Klay Thompson defends better than Kevin Martin, which is about the only thing he's better than him at.

It's funny to see Martin's contract deemed horrible when in actuality, they would be trading Kevin Love to further overpay / give an even more team crippling contract for a different mediocre player.

I honestly can't tell what thought is more flawed if this is all true; the idea that Thompson wouldn't be expendable or that Minnesota would do this in the first place.

The whole trade idea is completely asinine.

I think the ramifications of a guy like Klay Thompson being deemed max worthy and on a similar pay scale to players far superior to him could lead to a work stoppage down the line. That's how horrifically awful this deal is for Minnesota.

In a vacuum yes.....but this is Minnesota who are the one team who really has to overpay FA backups to play up there and live up there in the winter. I've spent weeks in Minnesota during each winter month.....you'd have to overpay me to spend my winters there when I can live in Phoenix, Miami, Texas, or California instead.

It's also not crippling to them as they aren't going to be spending/luring big name FA to Minnesota. It's the price of doing business so long as an NBA team plays in that city during the winters.

 

[wutang112878]

If Minny makes this move they are just treading water.  Thompson is better than Martin, but the drop off from Love to Lee is going to be more dramatic.  Then they are still at roughly $66M in salary for next year and $50M the following year and thats before a Thompson extension.  Flip must not want to rebuild by moving bad contracts off the books, which is fine but that means they need to bring young players in on rookie deals not continue to hand out more big money deals.
 
Just taking a step back, if the trade for Thompson and resign him say he settles for $10M, they would have Thompson at $10M, Lee at $15M and Pekovic at $12M, for a grand total of $37M or more than half the cap and then their payroll for 15/16 is at like $60M so they dont even have any real flexibility.  I can see what Flip is thinking with this move whatsoever, he is really, really overestimating what he would get out of Thompson and Lee.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

If Minny makes this move they are just treading water.  Thompson is better than Martin, but the drop off from Love to Lee is going to be more dramatic.  Then they are still at roughly $66M in salary for next year and $50M the following year and thats before a Thompson extension.  Flip must not want to rebuild by moving bad contracts off the books, which is fine but that means they need to bring young players in on rookie deals not continue to hand out more big money deals.
 
Just taking a step back, if the trade for Thompson and resign him say he settles for $10M, they would have Thompson at $10M, Lee at $15M and Pekovic at $12M, for a grand total of $37M or more than half the cap and then their payroll for 15/16 is at like $60M so they dont even have any real flexibility.  I can see what Flip is thinking with this move whatsoever, he is really, really overestimating what he would get out of Thompson and Lee.

Their superstar is letting the team and everyone in the NBA know he can't get out of town soon enough. At this point if the team can tread water in a return they are a massive winner in this deal as opposed to taking back 50 cents on the dollar.

It's about expectations......the Wolves goal isn't to win a Championship like an OKC or a Miami. Making the playoffs is a monumental accomplishment with the obstacles they face in acquiring players and they know this.......and their fans know this!

 

[ALiveH]

They would have needed to win about 9 more games this year to make the playoffs.  If next year is anything like that, making the playoffs is a pipe dream in just about any scenario for the Wolves.

 

[TheoShmeo]

I agree with HRB.
 
As to Saunders putting out there that he's leaning to keeping Love, I suspect that's for negotiating reasons.  If that's the case, it's understandable and likely a good tactic. 
 
But if he actually keeps Love on the hope that the player will change his mind, that's a dangerous game.  Maybe Saunders is so focused on the present that he's willing to take the chance.  If he is, it's just one more demonstration of the importance of stability and having a long term view in team management.  And if I were a Wolves fan, I'd hate the short term view and want the team to convert Love into the best package possible.

 

[Leather]

In a vacuum yes.....but this is Minnesota who are the one team who really has to overpay FA backups to play up there and live up there in the winter. I've spent weeks in Minnesota during each winter month.....you'd have to overpay me to spend my winters there when I can live in Phoenix, Miami, Texas, or California instead.

It's also not crippling to them as they aren't going to be spending/luring big name FA to Minnesota. It's the price of doing business so long as an NBA team plays in that city during the winters.

 
Ya, because living in Minneapolis in the winter is so much worse than living in Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Cleveland, or Detroit (all  less vibrant cities with bad winters). Following your logic, Boston, Toronto, Chicago, New York, and Philly must overpay backups to a lesser extent as well, right?  Because NBA players don't like cold cities?
 
This is the stupidest thing I'll read all day.
 
Are there some players who are probably less inclined to go to Minnesota due to the weather?  Sure.  Likewise, there are probably some players who are disinclined to go to Boston because of its perceived racial makeup/history, and players less inclined to go to Detroit because of its economy, or Denver because they like the ocean, etc... 
 
The idea that Minnesota, and Minnesota alone, has to budget on account of its climate? Come the fuck on.  If players don't want to go to Minnesota, it has more to do with the fact that the franchise is consistently inept and there's no sign that the situation will ever change.  The weather has nothing to do with it.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

 
Ya, because living in Minneapolis in the winter is so much worse than living in Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Cleveland, or Detroit (all worse cities with similarly bad winters) in the winter.  Following your logic, Boston, Toronto, Chicago, New York, and Philly must overpay backups to a lesser extent as well, right?  
 
This is the stupidest thing I'll read all day.

It is? With the exception of the Pacers, who play in a city which is not as cold as Minneapolis and has been considered a contender for a few seasons now, has any one of the teams from the cities you mentioned attracted a top free agent? If so, please name them.

The only way those teams will convince a marquee free agent to sign is if they happen to be close to contending for a title.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

 
Ya, because living in Minneapolis in the winter is so much worse than living in Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Cleveland, or Detroit (all worse cities with similarly bad winters) in the winter.  Following your logic, Boston, Toronto, Chicago, New York, and Philly must overpay backups to a lesser extent as well, right?  
 
This is the stupidest thing I'll read all day.
 
Are there some players who are probably less inclined to go to Minnesota due to the weather?  Sure.  Likewise, there are probably some players who are disinclined to go to Boston because of its perceived racial makeup/history, and players less inclined to go to Detroit because of its economy, or Denver because they like the ocean, etc... 
 
The idea that Minnesota, and Minnesota alone, has to budget on account of its climate? Come the fuck on.  If players don't want to go to Minnesota, it has more to do with the fact that the franchise is consistently inept and there's no sign that the situation will ever change.  The weather has nothing to do with it.

You are comparing major media markets and big city living for young millionaires.......with Minnesota and Milwaukee? I agree Boston is not on the top of the list for FA as I've stated this on many occassions as to why remaining above the salary cap ADDS flexibility in our case.

Small markets + frigid winters are not great selling points. Anyone arguing this is either blind, completely closed minded or a resident of these cities. This wasn't me slamming the city (i enjoyed my time in Minny......when i was indoors) only stating the obvious. Hey, Ramon $essions sure liked it!