He isn't LeBron by any stretch but he can effectively guard smaller, faster players as well as bigger guys too. You would not want him guarding Chris Paul or Blake Griffin all game but he could do so effectively for stretches.BigSoxFan said:
Kevin Love News and Rumors
- Thread starter Reardon's Beard
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I'm skeptical he can bang with PFs, but he has shown he can guard PGs pretty effectively. And if he's a good, versatile defender who can approach the offensive production of a prime Kevin Martin, he may well be worth a max contract. I just see him as a very good fit for GS, and a particularly bad one for the Wolves. Pekovic and Lee are both effective low post guys, who can kick it out if doubled, but Brewer and Rubio have got to be the worst shooting PG/SF combo in the league. Klay would be seeing the opponent's best perimeter defender, and guys shading to his side all game.
I do agree that it's a much better plan to stay relevant in the short term, and I like it for the Wolves better than a deal based around Faried, who I think is a bit overrated, and Wilson Chandler, who's replacement level. But I'd be surprised if that team could compete for the 8th seed.
I do agree that it's a much better plan to stay relevant in the short term, and I like it for the Wolves better than a deal based around Faried, who I think is a bit overrated, and Wilson Chandler, who's replacement level. But I'd be surprised if that team could compete for the 8th seed.
I was a big Dieng fan and really wanted Danny to take him but we passed. To be fair, I also wanted PJIII.DannyDarwinism said:
My gut feeling on Love is that he's basically a west coast guy and if he gets the chance to go there, he will.
No dog in the Clay debate, but thought I'd contribute to the overall question...
When to SIgn an NBA Player to a Max Contract:
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/features/when-to-sign-an-nba-player-to-the-max/
Please refer to the above link whenever the question comes up.
Good rule of thumb: if he's not an all-NBA 1st, 2nd or 3rd team (or very close to it) then it's not worth it.
When to SIgn an NBA Player to a Max Contract:
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/features/when-to-sign-an-nba-player-to-the-max/
Please refer to the above link whenever the question comes up.
Good rule of thumb: if he's not an all-NBA 1st, 2nd or 3rd team (or very close to it) then it's not worth it.
Hasnt Woj also been breaking the news on all the deals Minny has on the table? I have a feeling he is putting that out there for his Minny source aka Flip
Having just read this quote from Austin Ainge I'm somewhat skeptical: “Ignore all of it. It’s all planted on purpose,” Ainge said of the Celtics mentality toward reports this time of year. “Anyone who’s willing to talk – even off the record – this time of year has an agenda and is trying to accomplish something. So we ignore absolutely all of it.”
That said, Woj is pretty tuned in. If the Warriors are willing to give up Klay, Lee and Barnes or a future pick, I wouldn't want Celtics to shoot their wad in order to compete with that offer. We've seen what Love + drek leads to in Minnesota.
That said, Woj is pretty tuned in. If the Warriors are willing to give up Klay, Lee and Barnes or a future pick, I wouldn't want Celtics to shoot their wad in order to compete with that offer. We've seen what Love + drek leads to in Minnesota.
I'f I'm Minny, I'd rather have a Klay + Lee package than anything the Celtics can offer. I don't want Boston to empty all their assets for Love either.
You sound like a Boston fan doing a terrible job at pretending to be Minny.ifmanis5 said:
The original Klay + Lee is a garbage deal. If Barnes and picks are added, then yes, it is a bit more appealing, but for a team like Minny, they need to bottom out again and start all over.
Barnes isn't very good, though. Then again, we've seen guys like Mozgov be the difference between making a deal or not.
Its hard to see the Clips trading Griffin for Love. After Kobe, he has to be the biggest sports star in Los Angeles. And I think BSF is right. Its more of a lateral move than an upgrade for LAC.
What do you mean by relevant? As has already been pointed out, the T'Wolves didn't make the playoffs last year. Now they are going to trade their best player (by far) for two worse parts.....and somehow they are going to be relevant?DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
With the GSW trade they are going to max out as an 8 seed for the entire cycle of that team. I don't see how that's a relevance any general manager should strive to attain
Rubio, Martin, Brewer, Love, Pekovic
vs
Rubio, Thompson, Brewer, Lee, Pekovic
Seems like treading water at best. The upgrade from Martin to Thompson is pretty similar to the downgrade from Love to Lee.
vs
Rubio, Thompson, Brewer, Lee, Pekovic
Seems like treading water at best. The upgrade from Martin to Thompson is pretty similar to the downgrade from Love to Lee.
The eight seed is exactly what I mean. I agree with you that, all things being equal, a GM should strive to build a true contender. But this is the TWolves we are talking about.tbb345 said:
They haven't made the playoffs in a long time and they are never going to attract marquee free agents so their choices are limited. They can build through drafts where they are going to have to get really lucky. They can acquire assets and flip them for star players. Or they can trade their only real star for better than average NBA talent which will help them compete for the playoffs for the next few years. While its not an optimal strategy, there is a case to be made for it as it will placate fans who must be sick of losing and are almost certainly going to be sore over losing Love.
Fwiw, I think a GS/Minnesota trade is highly unlikely.
For a team playing in the frigid winters of Minnesota (seriously have you guys ever been there in Dec - March?) that has to overpay anyone to play there......competing for an 8-seed every year is most definitely a success for that franchise.tbb345 said:
The way a franchise like Minnesota has to be successful is through the draft and smart trades. The Boston offer allows them to properly rebuild. Whether their management takes advantage of the picks they'd get is up to them.HomeRunBaker said:
The Wolves should be playing to win, big. If Oklahoma City, of all places, can build a contender, so can Minnesota. Decent, but far from elite established players isn't the way to go for anyone. That trade makes the Wolves a lesser version of what the warriors were 3 years ago.
RedOctober3829 said:
Sounds like you guys are smarter than Flip.Devizier said:
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/06/20/wojnarowski-on-felger-mazz-dont-think-boston-has-enough-to-complete-love-trade/
Flip is dicking around, and is going to end up getting a poor return for Love. Can't wait.
Or Flip is trying to extract more by negotiating through the media. As was said earlier, we should believe nothing in these reports.
DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
That one in particular is an eye-roller, "yeah we really don't need to move him anyway, we're not over a barrel here or anything."
And for you latest shit-against-the-wall Love rumor- Klay to the Lakers, with the #7 pick presumably going to the Wolves and Love going to the dubs. With, uh, some other moving parts?
MakMan44 said:
The fact that Woj opens with that first line should be cause enough for everyone to stop reading/listening. We have more assets than anyone else and it's really not even close. Now, Danny may not give up enough of those assets to get Minny to do a deal, but to say that they don't have enough to do a deal is just absurd.
If Flip takes David Lee and the #7 pick over Sully/KO and #6 (plus 1 or 2 more picks), they deserve to have a crappy team who might be able to get an 8 seed. Rubio/Martin/McDermott (#7)/Lee/Pekovic? Something like that is what they're looking at. And that team stinks. This is posturing 101 and it's pretty obvious.
I could see the Wolves holding onto him past the draft and it not being a disaster. IF they are looking for a deal built around NBA talent the same offers will be there up until the deadline.
Cellar-Door said:
I agree with this. Saunders is better off hoping for a superior package later (or the Wolves magically coalescing into a solid team, thus convincing Love to stay) than settling for an inferior package now. The only notable assets on the table that disappears after the draft is the right to control the Celtics' sixth pick, and the Celtics have plenty of future assets to deal if Saunders decides to wait on a trade until midseason.
Saunders might ultimately get a weaker deal taking this approach, but it's not inconceivable that he gets a better one.
Yeah but our "assets" kinda suck. We don't have an young high upside player like we did with Jefferson in the KG trade and our pick is #6 this year with the other future picks we hold figuring to be late lottery at best. We have a pretty crappy offer overall without any impact player or highly regarded pick whatsoever.ElcaballitoMVP said:
I still think Ainge is going to get this done but it will involve more picks than many here will like with less protection than we would like. It certainly isn't an offer that is going to blow anyone away though.
HomeRunBaker said:
I don't think our assets suck as much as they just have so much more unknown attached to them. Now for a good GM, that might be a plus. You get to mold the team how you would like. But other than Sullinger/Olynyk, there are no actual NBA players. It takes some confidence as a GM to trade Love for a bunch of picks, some of which you don't even know how high they will be. It only turns out to be a good deal if Flip is good at drafting and/or those future picks turn out to be really high.
I can see Saunders shying away from that challenge and going with the instant gratification of a package built mostly around current NBA players that he knows. It's not how I would rebuild a team, but Flip doesn't strike me as the sharpest tool in the shed, so it wouldn't surprise me.
They have the potential to be pretty bad.....but in the East that could still mean an 8-seed. It would take a lot for them to be 76er-bad since they will be spending money and replacing those large salary slots with other players who will probably keep them from falling to that level.RedOctober3829 said:
More smoke that we might or might not believe.
@GwashburnGlobe: #celtics president Danny Ainge said it's "the most likely scenario" that the team keeps both of its draft picks.
@GwashburnGlobe: #celtics president Danny Ainge said it's "the most likely scenario" that the team keeps both of its draft picks.
And the next most likely scenario is that they trade one pick and the third most likely scenario is that they trade both picks...
Technically, the "most" likely scenario could still have a low probability of actually happening
The biggest problem with a Love trade is that Flip has ridiculous power in MIN and he doesn't really want to rebuild.
Add in an owner in his 70's who also seems to not really want a rebuild, and I see why they aren't jumping on Love deals.
Of course when he goes to LA in a year for nothing the team is going to be brutally bad, so hopefully for Minny fans they have someone in that Front office willing to point out that he needs to be traded by the deadline.
Add in an owner in his 70's who also seems to not really want a rebuild, and I see why they aren't jumping on Love deals.
Of course when he goes to LA in a year for nothing the team is going to be brutally bad, so hopefully for Minny fans they have someone in that Front office willing to point out that he needs to be traded by the deadline.
RedOctober3829 said:
Either this is posturing or Klay Thompson is a million times better than I think. Because if they balk at trading Thompson -- who will be a FA after this year and want lots and lots of money -- as the main piece for Love, or the #7 pick...that's insane. I just see him as a volume scorer who put up decent numbers in a favorable system. What am I missing?
I would probably trade Thompson for Love, I wouldn't consider trading hm for #7. Shooting guard is brutal in the NBA right now, and Thompson is one of the better ones. He is one of the best 3pt shooters in the league, is a strong defender and he's only 23. He's shown improvement in drawing fouls, and decreasing his turnovers. He's a really good player, and I certainly wouldn't call him a "volume scorer" considering his efficiency, he takes a lot of shots (particularly a ton of 3s) and makes them at a good rate.moondog80 said:
I wouldn't trade him for Love in a package (is anyone suggesting it would be straight up?) if Love told me he wouldn't re-sign, because Thompson is restricted and I know I control him. Otherwise, yes I would give him up in a package for Love in a heartbeat if I knew I could keep Love long-term.moondog80 said:
Thompson doesn't get to the line, that is why his points per shot are low as PPS credits you for FT points scored, but not with the attempt. He had the highest points per touch in the league among guys who played in 20 or more games (that eliminates Brook Lopez who was ahead of him). That is incredibly efficient, he is rarely fouled because he takes so many threes, but he makes so many that every time he touches the ball he gets you 0.48 pts.
Cellar-Door said:
But is there any good reason to think that Thompson could significantly increase his free throw attempts without sacrificing elsewhere (e.g. lower eFG% and more turnovers)? Given he's playing with Curry, who has one of the strongest gravitational effects in the league, Thompson seems like he should be in a good situation to drive to the basket for lay-ups and fouls, and yet he can't. Why? Probably because he's not very athletic with the ball, and I don't see why that would change.
Are there any players with Klay's physical and statistical profile that get much better?
That's not his role in the offense, it is Curry's and they have 2 big men inside.Mugthis said:
His role is to stretch the defense and knock down shots.
I don't know why he would need to drive, he's one of the most effective per touch players in the league, you build around that skill set. However he has increased his FT rate each of his first three years in the league, and Glen rice comes to mind as a similar player, he jumped his FT rate significantly without any loss in 3pt shooting.
Not a comp in terms of position, but Bird saw a pretty decent uptick in FTrate as well.
Cellar-Door said:
Minor nitpick, but Basketball Reference has him at 2.9 FTA/100 possessions his rookie year and 2.7 in '12/13. I had looked into Mitch Richmond as as similar player, but his FT rate remained fairly steady in his career. Rice is a good find. Reggie Miller also showed an increase, though not as dramatic as Rice's. Like Rice and Miller, Klay strikes me as savvy guy who will learn to initiate contact.
Thompson's success is making Nick Stauskas look more attractive as Thursday night gets closer.
But why wouldn't that be his role if he could do it? If he's going to be worth a max-contract or not trading for Love, he's going to have to vastly expand his game. Right now, is he more than a Danny Green type, except younger (granted, that is important). I just don't see much evidence for thinking that he can expand his game enough. Here are his 2014 ranks among qualified SGs (i.e., the weakest position in the game):
I see a great three point shooter who's not good at much else, and terrible at many important things. He's young, so maybe he gets better...but probably not.
I see a great three point shooter who's not good at much else, and terrible at many important things. He's young, so maybe he gets better...but probably not.