Celtics trade rumors - Deadline 2/18, 3 PM

Jeff Van GULLY

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 13, 2005
4,035
Mannix is on WEEI and he says that Boston will be on the list of teams in Kevin Durant's free agency.
I never considered that Durant would consider Boston, just dismissed it out of hand as a fantasy. He's about the most perfect fit for this team in terms of skill set. Add in maximum skill level...

I still won't open my heart to the possibility until Durant actually signs.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,383
I never considered that Durant would consider Boston, just dismissed it out of hand as a fantasy. He's about the most perfect fit for this team in terms of skill set. Add in maximum skill level...

I still won't open my heart to the possibility until Durant actually signs.
Durant came out of tonights game as doctors looked at his surgically repaired right foot. This isn't the first problem he's had with this same foot. He returned and finished the game but 7-1 and up players are prone to foot injuries and once they get them their careers generally end a short time later. I stay as far away from Durant as possible.....major buyer beware.
 

PC Drunken Friar

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 12, 2003
14,626
South Boston
Durant came out of tonights game as doctors looked at his surgically repaired right foot. This isn't the first problem he's had with this same foot. He returned and finished the game but 7-1 and up players are prone to foot injuries and once they get them their careers generally end a short time later. I stay as far away from Durant as possible.....major buyer beware.
What NBA team wouldn't give up their first pick, even if it were Simmons or Ingram for Durant? It's buyer beware, but if that is the price, you need to take it.
 

sox311

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 30, 2004
1,753
That's what she said.
I think he is "reverse jinxing" it... The Cs are built so amazingly to have a player like KD, I too will not even consider that fantasy. But if we had the chance we would give every pick in the cupboard for him. All three Brooklyn picks, and Danny's doomsday cellar.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
22,851
What do 7-1 and up players have to do with Durant?
Some people believe Durant is 6'11" the way KG and Bill Walton were 6'11". I don't really see the difference in HRB's point, tall people have foot problems, a few inches here or there doesn't really effect that.

Edit: After further research, Durant is officially listed at 6'9".
 

Papelbon's Poutine

Homeland Security
SoSH Member
Dec 4, 2005
19,615
Portsmouth, NH
Your further research is why I asked the question

Edit: to be clear, I understand his point and foot injuries are scary no matter what height. But why the classification of 7-1, when Durant is four inches short of that? Not a big deal, was just wondering why he threw it in there.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,716
That's the risk on both sides and likely why it wasn't consummated. If you know you can draft Ingram or Simmons with the pick you likely do the deal without needing much more. Right now the risk is too great that you're choosing between Dunn, Jaylen Brown, Bender, etc at which point you want much more than only the Brooklyn pick to do the deal......and Ainge isn't going to give up Smart and maybe even another player/pick in addition to the unkown Brooklyn pick.

Once there is certainly following the lottery I'd expect there is a chance this deal is done by draft night.
I hope not, I'm not really an Okafor fan. But maybe Boston lands #1 and Philly get locked out of the top three and Okafor can be the price of the pick swap. Because, really, I think the NBA game is passing guys like Okafor by.
 

NoXInNixon

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 24, 2008
5,339
What NBA team wouldn't give up their first pick, even if it were Simmons or Ingram for Durant? It's buyer beware, but if that is the price, you need to take it.
He's a free agent this offseason. And I think Boston makes a lot of sense for him. With him, the Celtics become real title contenders. Winning a top 2 pick in the lottery makes it an even more appealing destination.
 

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
51,548
Butler makes the most sense. Right age, right skill set, potential to draw other talent. Not seeing it with Okafor.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

posts way less than 18% useful shit
SoSH Member
Nov 17, 2010
14,479
He's a free agent this offseason. And I think Boston makes a lot of sense for him. With him, the Celtics become real title contenders. Winning a top 2 pick in the lottery makes it an even more appealing destination.
He's signing a 1 year to take advantage of the max deals going up. He's not doing his free agency tour for another year.
 

wutang112878

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 5, 2007
6,066
I hope not, I'm not really an Okafor fan. But maybe Boston lands #1 and Philly get locked out of the top three and Okafor can be the price of the pick swap. Because, really, I think the NBA game is passing guys like Okafor by.
Specifically how is it passing him by? Is it because he isnt a rim protector?

Its not as common in today's NBA as it used to be, but I do think there is still tremendous value in a big who is a great scorer in the post assuming they can also pass out of the post if they attract defensive attention. This can create opportunities for 3s and lanes for your teammates to drive to the hoop so you can still play the high efficiency game, you just use your low-post scorer to initiate it.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
71,218
Specifically how is it passing him by? Is it because he isnt a rim protector?

Its not as common in today's NBA as it used to be, but I do think there is still tremendous value in a big who is a great scorer in the post assuming they can also pass out of the post if they attract defensive attention. This can create opportunities for 3s and lanes for your teammates to drive to the hoop so you can still play the high efficiency game, you just use your low-post scorer to initiate it.
The thing is that it's really hard to play two bigs simultaneously against most opposing lineups these days, so the one big really needs to be able to defend the rim. It doesn't matter too much how good they are on offense if they give it all back on the other end and more, a la Amare Stoudemire in recent seasons.
 

bowiac

Caveat: I know nothing about what I speak
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 18, 2003
12,945
New York, NY
Its not as common in today's NBA as it used to be, but I do think there is still tremendous value in a big who is a great scorer in the post assuming they can also pass out of the post if they attract defensive attention. This can create opportunities for 3s and lanes for your teammates to drive to the hoop so you can still play the high efficiency game, you just use your low-post scorer to initiate it.
The bolded is the key. The post-up itself isn't a great play these days, since defense are much better about providing help and preventing deep penetration in the first place. Plus, the upside of a successful postup is a good, but not great efficiency shot. But if you can pass out of it, then it becomes a great weapon.

Okafor didn't pass so much in college, but he was pretty effective regardless then. He's not passing much now, but maybe that's due to a lack of talent around him. I'm not an Okafor believer, but if he does succeed, that's probably the most likely avenue.

The thing is that it's really hard to play two bigs simultaneously against most opposing lineups these days, so the one big really needs to be able to defend the rim. It doesn't matter too much how good they are on offense if they give it all back on the other end and more, a la Amare Stoudemire in recent seasons.
I agree it's tough to play two bigs, but with sufficient perimeter D, you can still have a good defense. The Celtics don't have much rim protection, but are a good to almost great defensive team for instance. But I agree this is another issue - you now need to tailor the rest of your team around your C if they don't protect the rim.
 

wutang112878

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 5, 2007
6,066
Granted its the Spurs, but they've made it work with Duncan and Aldridge and I dont think Aldridge is really an amazing defender and neither of them can really shoot outside of 10 feet. Also, if you are asking me to teach a big man a skill, I'd much rather try to make him adequate defensively than great offensively especially in the case of Okafor because his raw offensive talent is really so rare.
 

wutang112878

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 5, 2007
6,066
The bolded is the key. The post-up itself isn't a great play these days, since defense are much better about providing help and preventing deep penetration in the first place. Plus, the upside of a successful postup is a good, but not great efficiency shot. But if you can pass out of it, then it becomes a great weapon.

Okafor didn't pass so much in college, but he was pretty effective regardless then. He's not passing much now, but maybe that's due to a lack of talent around him. I'm not an Okafor believer, but if he does succeed, that's probably the most likely avenue.
I also think the passing out of the post is a skill that takes a few years to develop. Coming into the league the great offensive scorers never really had to worry about passing out of doubles in college because their opponents either didnt have the ability to do this effectively or they were so skilled offensively that they could make their moves before a double even got there. Early in their careers most of your elite offensive players look kind of baffled when a double comes their way because of this. And this is another one of those skills that I think can indeed be taught.

Then when you add in that Okafor leads the team in usage and the 76ers are 28th in TS% as a team, I really think you have to assume that his play is going to suffer. His situation is really, really brutal.
 

Grin&MartyBarret

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 2, 2007
4,932
East Village, NYC
Granted its the Spurs, but they've made it work with Duncan and Aldridge and I dont think Aldridge is really an amazing defender and neither of them can really shoot outside of 10 feet. Also, if you are asking me to teach a big man a skill, I'd much rather try to make him adequate defensively than great offensively especially in the case of Okafor because his raw offensive talent is really so rare.
Aldridge is one of, if not the most effective mid-range shooters in the league. He's one of the few guys who shoots a 20 foot jumper at a high enough percentage that it becomes a valuable shot.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,716
Yeah, LMA is Jermaine O'Neal 2.0. Solid defensive player who scores a lot in the midrange, especially if he's in one of his sweet spots.

As for Okafor, he's sort of like Jefferson. Low post offense is slow and not overly efficient, no matter how pretty it looks. Those guys are fine as roleplayers, but they need to be something really special to be a team centerpiece, and I'm not sure that Okafor has it. Honestly I would much rather have Noel as I think he's the sort of defensive anchor that would do well here, with the advantage of not needing the ball. Now, if Okafor was the price of a trade for Jimmy Butler, sign me up.
 

67YAZ

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2000
8,832
Where are all these Jimmy Butler fantasies coming from? You think Mark Wahlberg can convince him to force a trade to Boston and rake in all those Wahlburgers endorsement dollars? Butler's salaries moving forward: $17.5m in 16/17, $18.7m in 17/18, $19.8m in 18/19, and player option $19.8m in 19/20. All very reasonable salaries for an All Star during his prime years under the higher cap.

The Bulls will try desperately to move Rose and his $21m salary to a teams looking to make splash this summer but who are not getting much traction with free agents. I'm dubious that they'll be able to move Rose in time to actually use any of the salary cap space a trade would open up, so they'll probably roll into next year with a core of Butler, Rose, and whomever they can get with with $22m in cap space (assuming Gasol opt out).
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,383
Where are all these Jimmy Butler fantasies coming from? You think Mark Wahlberg can convince him to force a trade to Boston and rake in all those Wahlburgers endorsement dollars? Butler's salaries moving forward: $17.5m in 16/17, $18.7m in 17/18, $19.8m in 18/19, and player option $19.8m in 19/20. All very reasonable salaries for an All Star during his prime years under the higher cap.

The Bulls will try desperately to move Rose and his $21m salary to a teams looking to make splash this summer but who are not getting much traction with free agents. I'm dubious that they'll be able to move Rose in time to actually use any of the salary cap space a trade would open up, so they'll probably roll into next year with a core of Butler, Rose, and whomever they can get with with $22m in cap space (assuming Gasol opt out).
Well we know that Ainge loves him and had a scheduled meeting to (presumably) offer him the max that we could last summer. Then Chicago stepped up when they recognized they had to max him out to retain him. So there was a delay on the Bulls part.....was it to try and save a few bucks which generally doesn't occur when you commit to a star or were they simply looking to retain an asset to move later and earn a return?

There is a ton of smoke to this being much more than fantasy.
 

ElcaballitoMVP

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 19, 2008
3,953
Almost put this in the draft thread, but probably makes more sense here.

A Pelicans blogger is suggesting they look to trade back from what is likely going to be the 6th or 7th pick in the draft to add assets. One of the deals is with Boston:

Suggests the 6/7th pick in exchange for DAL(17)+BOS (23), with the hopes of getting one of Amir or Jerebko added. Seems like an ideal way to consolidate our plethora of draft picks, and I would throw in one of our 2nds as well to beat the other trades he mentions. If the C's want to add 2 stars, Amir is a likely option to be moved.

The BKL + NO picks would give Danny a ton of ammo.
 

chilidawg

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 22, 2015
5,989
Cultural hub of the universe
Almost put this in the draft thread, but probably makes more sense here.

A Pelicans blogger is suggesting they look to trade back from what is likely going to be the 6th or 7th pick in the draft to add assets. One of the deals is with Boston:

Suggests the 6/7th pick in exchange for DAL(17)+BOS (23), with the hopes of getting one of Amir or Jerebko added. Seems like an ideal way to consolidate our plethora of draft picks, and I would throw in one of our 2nds as well to beat the other trades he mentions. If the C's want to add 2 stars, Amir is a likely option to be moved.

The BKL + NO picks would give Danny a ton of ammo.
Considering we (supposedly, not sure i believe it) tried to trade 4 firsts to go from 16 to 9, that seems like a screaming deal. Not sure why NO would want AJ considering how much he seems to be slowing. But I'd certainly throw him or JJ in, as well as a couple seconds.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,716
Almost put this in the draft thread, but probably makes more sense here.

A Pelicans blogger is suggesting they look to trade back from what is likely going to be the 6th or 7th pick in the draft to add assets. One of the deals is with Boston:

Suggests the 6/7th pick in exchange for DAL(17)+BOS (23), with the hopes of getting one of Amir or Jerebko added. Seems like an ideal way to consolidate our plethora of draft picks, and I would throw in one of our 2nds as well to beat the other trades he mentions. If the C's want to add 2 stars, Amir is a likely option to be moved.

The BKL + NO picks would give Danny a ton of ammo.
I mean I could see the Pelicans wanting to move down as a means of adding depth and losing a sunk cost like Asik. I'm just not sure I'd really be up for taking on Asik for the right to draft Henry Ellenson or the hope that you can find a team willing to eat Asik along with the two lottery picks for a real star. But if Trader Danny could find a way of convincing the Lakers that they really need Asik to backline their perimeter guys then hey, I'm all for it.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
34,870
Considering we (supposedly, not sure i believe it) tried to trade 4 firsts to go from 16 to 9, that seems like a screaming deal. Not sure why NO would want AJ considering how much he seems to be slowing. But I'd certainly throw him or JJ in, as well as a couple seconds.
I always wonder about that "4 PICKS!!!" line. It sure seems like classic Ainge Bullshitting, I'm sure one of them was the Minny pick which was always going to be 2 seconds.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,383
I always wonder about that "4 PICKS!!!" line. It sure seems like classic Ainge Bullshitting, I'm sure one of them was the Minny pick which was always going to be 2 seconds.
This is fair but back to original comment. 17 and 23 figure to move you up into the 13-14 range......not into 6-7. Oh but they get Amir's expiring deal yippee. That swap needs some major tweaking to be realistic.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
34,870
This is fair but back to original comment. 17 and 23 figure to move you up into the 13-14 range......not into 6-7. Oh but they get Amir's expiring deal yippee. That swap needs some major tweaking to be realistic.
Yeah. Though decent chance Dallas falls out of the playoffs
 

67YAZ

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2000
8,832
There is a ton of smoke to this being much more than fantasy.
At his point, to trade Butler is to blow it all up and rebuild from scratch. The Bulls only have about $27.5m committed in 17/18 to Butler, Dunlevey, McDermott, and Portis. Butler plus cap space for 2 max contracts in summer 2017 is a pretty ok plan; it at least gives them an established star to try to attract other stars and market as the post-Rose "face of the franchise."

Sending him to Boston means the 16/17 core becomes Rose, Brooklyn pick, and (hopefully) max contract free agent. In 17/18, Rose expires and the Bulls are back on the market for another max free agent.

But who know right now. Hoiberg has really struggled to adjust, and it's not clear how Foreman is going to a diagnose the problem - is it Hoiberg or is this just a transition season with Hoiberg trying to run his system with a team built for Thibs?
 

Devizier

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 3, 2000
19,593
Somewhere
Considering we (supposedly, not sure i believe it) tried to trade 4 firsts to go from 16 to 9, that seems like a screaming deal. Not sure why NO would want AJ considering how much he seems to be slowing. But I'd certainly throw him or JJ in, as well as a couple seconds.
Amir is still an excellent defender, but dumping a high pick for one year? Seems crazy, but who knows.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,383
Amir is still an excellent defender, but dumping a high pick for one year? Seems crazy, but who knows.
Is he though? Opponents shoot better, score better and rebound better when he's in the game as opposed to when he's not. This passes my eye test of him being pretty much what he is......an ordinary backup big.

He's playing as if his $10m is guaranteed next season. He may be in for a rude awakening.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,716
This is fair but back to original comment. 17 and 23 figure to move you up into the 13-14 range......not into 6-7. Oh but they get Amir's expiring deal yippee. That swap needs some major tweaking to be realistic.
Well, if they're losing Asik's relatively useless $45 million I could see it. That essentially frees them up to sign additional help to go with Davis.
 

mcpickl

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 23, 2007
4,556
Almost put this in the draft thread, but probably makes more sense here.

A Pelicans blogger is suggesting they look to trade back from what is likely going to be the 6th or 7th pick in the draft to add assets. One of the deals is with Boston:

Suggests the 6/7th pick in exchange for DAL(17)+BOS (23), with the hopes of getting one of Amir or Jerebko added. Seems like an ideal way to consolidate our plethora of draft picks, and I would throw in one of our 2nds as well to beat the other trades he mentions. If the C's want to add 2 stars, Amir is a likely option to be moved.

The BKL + NO picks would give Danny a ton of ammo.
He's really light on his suggestion.

In the 2014 draft, the Bulls had #16 and #19. They packaged those two picks with a second rounder to move up to #11, and had to take Anthony Randolph back from Denver to make the deal. They later unloaded Randolph on Orlando, but had to give them to more second rounders to do it. In total, #16, #19 and three second round picks just to get to #11.

It's really tough to get value bundling up picks to move up. Gotta trade them for players.
 

Sprowl

mikey lowell of the sandbox
Dope
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2006
34,645
Haiku
Is he though? Opponents shoot better, score better and rebound better when he's in the game as opposed to when he's not. This passes my eye test of him being pretty much what he is......an ordinary backup big.

He's playing as if his $10m is guaranteed next season. He may be in for a rude awakening.
Johnson seems to be wearing down, and Stevens is taking him out earlier and keeping him off the court longer. Like Olynyk's, Johnson's strong performances depend heavily on matchups; unlike Olynyk's, Johnson's offense is limited to converting Thomas's passes inside. It looks like Ainge would take Jerebko's option over Johnson's. Johnson is the team's only rim protector, but they seem to play better defense without rim protection.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,716
Johnson seems to be wearing down, and Stevens is taking him out earlier and keeping him off the court longer. Like Olynyk's, Johnson's strong performances depend heavily on matchups; unlike Olynyk's, Johnson's offense is limited to converting Thomas's passes inside. It looks like Ainge would take Jerebko's option over Johnson's. Johnson is the team's only rim protector, but they seem to play better defense without rim protection.
I think Johnson's the ballast for a draft night trade at this point.
 

wutang112878

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 5, 2007
6,066
Aldridge is one of, if not the most effective mid-range shooters in the league. He's one of the few guys who shoots a 20 foot jumper at a high enough percentage that it becomes a valuable shot.
To pile on this point. He's been used differently, but he's a serious threat beyond 12 ft.
Yeah, um, mea culpa. Total brain cramp by me, I feel somewhat embarrassed by my stupidity.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,614
Johnson seems to be wearing down, and Stevens is taking him out earlier and keeping him off the court longer. Like Olynyk's, Johnson's strong performances depend heavily on matchups; unlike Olynyk's, Johnson's offense is limited to converting Thomas's passes inside. It looks like Ainge would take Jerebko's option over Johnson's. Johnson is the team's only rim protector, but they seem to play better defense without rim protection.
It was reported a couple of months ago that Johnson had plantar fascitis. That doesn't just go away. It will debilitate a player for awhile, then abate for awhile, neither with much rhyme or reason. I think he's in the "debilitated" phase these days.
 

Reardon's Beard

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 3, 2005
3,798
Yeah, um, mea culpa. Total brain cramp by me, I feel somewhat embarrassed by my stupidity.
Don't be embarrassed, it happens. Now the Republican debate tonight. That is a national embarrassment the universe can see, but I digress.

As someone mentioned upthread, get Durant. I did not think this team would be good enough by this time following the Big Three era...that they would be competitive for 35's next big deal. Boston is a couple moves away from being a legitimate title contender. I know Golden State is other wordly right now, but another solid year of experience for this team that sees them go to the ECF - if you can add a healthy superstar like Durant, plus some interior D - anything's possible.
 

zenter

indian sweet
SoSH Member
Oct 11, 2005
5,641
Astoria, NY
As someone mentioned upthread, get Durant. I did not think this team would be good enough by this time following the Big Three era...that they would be competitive for 35's next big deal.
You and the last couple posts are making fanboy-zenter drool over a Cs lineup built around Thomas, Butler, and Durant. So... Stop it.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,383
It was reported a couple of months ago that Johnson had plantar fascitis. That doesn't just go away. It will debilitate a player for awhile, then abate for awhile, neither with much rhyme or reason. I think he's in the "debilitated" phase these days.
Has he always had it? Amir isn't debilitated this is the player he was last year as well. Aside from a little less bounce which 11-year vets typically experience this is the same player he's always been.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,614
Has he always had it? Amir isn't debilitated this is the player he was last year as well. Aside from a little less bounce which 11-year vets typically experience this is the same player he's always been.
I'm seeing a different player from the first 30 games or so, which roughly corresponds to when it was announced.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,383
I'm seeing a different player from the first 30 games or so, which roughly corresponds to when it was announced.
Amir's monthly splits have improved each month with Janaury far and away his most productive. He has been pretty awful the past several games but that's what you expect from bench players with small samples like a handful of games.
 

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
32,867
Amir's monthly splits have improved each month with Janaury far and away his most productive. He has been pretty awful the past several games but that's what you expect from bench players with small samples like a handful of games.

I think he's hurt. He was a mess in the last game.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,383
I think he's hurt. He was a mess in the last game.
So much for him being hurt. 15/8 tonight.

Amir is what he is.....a backup big/spot-starter complimentary player who puts up 8/6 in 20 mpg with some games better than others. It's what he's always been, it isn't going to change in his 11th season.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,614
So much for him being hurt. 15/8 tonight.

Amir is what he is.....a backup big/spot-starter complimentary player who puts up 8/6 in 20 mpg with some games better than others. It's what he's always been, it isn't going to change in his 11th season.
In the end you're probably right. He's such a generally limited player that its hard to tell, But if you've ever had -- or read the accounts of athletes that have had -- plantar fascitis (Antonio Gates comes to mind), there are some days you barely feel it and others where its like there's broken glass in your shoes.