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2018 NBA offseason thread

Discussion in 'Mark Blount's Port Cellar: Celtics Forum' started by DrewDawg, May 30, 2018.

  1. PedroKsBambino

    PedroKsBambino Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    21,441
    As to Jokic, the biggest difference as to passing is role and usage not skill. There is no question he has the ball more—that wasn’t what the comment was, however. And he’s a much, much better scorer (in part because he’s a better shooter).

    I’m a big fan of Jokic—but I think we need to contextualize numbers when making historical comparisons too. The guy can be great and also not be the greatest at every sub-skill.
     
  2. TripleOT

    TripleOT Member SoSH Member

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    1,490
    IIRC, the statisticians were less liberal about handing out assists in the 1980s .
     
  3. Euclis20

    Euclis20 Member SoSH Member

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    Other than vague anecdotal evidence, I haven't heard much on that. 77/78 was Walton's best assist season by far, and that year approximately 57.5% of made baskets were assisted. In 85/86, it was 60.2%. Compare that to last year, when approximately 58.7% of made baskets were assisted. That's really not much of a difference, and definitely doesn't explain that huge edge that Jokic has in both assist and turnover rates.
     
  4. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

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    7,105
    This is interesting...



    For mobil users, Wojo's quote reads,

    As far as I know Jenkins is one of the few reporters close to Kawhi Leonard's camp. This makes sense of Ramona Shelburne's remarks on Kawhi's interest in Clipperland the other day. It will be hilarious if the Lakers fuck this up two summers in a row.
     
  5. chilidawg

    chilidawg Member SoSH Member

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    1,225
  6. ElUno20

    ElUno20 Member SoSH Member

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    3,212
    The clipps have been trying to play chess with the Leonard situation. They fired Bowen as their color guy a couple months back because he was critical of Leonard
     
  7. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

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    Yes, it's a holdover of the Sterling years, where the players were treated like indentured servants.
     
  8. The Process

    The Process lurker

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    17
    Embiid is certainly in the top 10. I would move CP3 down a spot or two but Draymond isn't top 10 for me.
     
  9. snowmanny

    snowmanny Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    9,955
    GS: 2,3,13,22,68,87
    BOS: 16,17,25,39,47,82
    PHI 9.26,48,54,62
     
  10. JakeRae

    JakeRae Member SoSH Member

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    6,289
    Embiid is not as good as Horford. Horford is not a top 10 player. By the transitive property, Embiid is obviously not a top 10 player.

    Jokic, on the other hand, these awful lists to the contrary, clearly is.
     
  11. Sam Ray Not

    Sam Ray Not Member SoSH Member

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    5,072
    ESPN has been dropping its own NBA 100 — now through #21. Some pretty big discrepancies with the SI list where the Celtics are concerned...

    SI / ESPN
    Smart: didn't place / #55
    Rozier: #82 / #82
    Brown: #47 / #37
    Tatum: #39 / #24
    Hayward: #25 / #40
    Kyrie: #17 / TBD
    Horford: #16 / #34
     
  12. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

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    7,105
    ESPN's list is a little screwy, Hayward didn't play last year so they're dropping him, Fultz didn't play last year and made the top 100. But of those two guys only one of them has been a good NBA player.
     
  13. Sam Ray Not

    Sam Ray Not Member SoSH Member

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  14. Sam Ray Not

    Sam Ray Not Member SoSH Member

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    Lots of great stuff (on KD, the Ws, Celtics, Nellie, etc. etc.) in today's Simmons/Nash sitdown:

     
  15. Sam Ray Not

    Sam Ray Not Member SoSH Member

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  16. Sam Ray Not

    Sam Ray Not Member SoSH Member

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    5,072
    ESPN drops their dueling top 20...

    1. LeBron
    2. Curry
    3. Harden
    4. (Tie) Durant, Antetokounmpo
    6. Davis
    7. Westbrook
    8. Kawhi
    9. Embiid
    10. Lillard
    11. CP3
    12. Jokic
    13. PG13
    14. Butler
    15. Oladipo
    16. Draymond
    17. Towns
    18. Simmons
    19. Klay
    20. Kyrie

    Eh, I prefer the SI list.
     
  17. The Social Chair

    The Social Chair Member SoSH Member

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    That list is strange.
     
  18. Kliq

    Kliq Member SoSH Member

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    All the high rankings for Embiid and all I can think about is how winded he got after playing more than 25 minutes in the playoffs.
     
  19. jon abbey

    jon abbey Shanghai Warrior Dope SoSH Member

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    SI’s top four is certainly better, LBJ/Durant/Curry/Harden in that order.
     
  20. The Social Chair

    The Social Chair Member SoSH Member

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    Giannis over Davis is a hard no.

    Lillard, Jokic, and Draymond are all way too high.
     
  21. deanx0

    deanx0 Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    1,843
    KD not in the top 2 is creating a fake issue to generate clicks and discussion at its finest. It is such a non-starter that it automatically disqualifies the entire list.
     
  22. Jimbodandy

    Jimbodandy Member SoSH Member

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    Agreed.

    I love Giannis as much as anyone, but a conversation about KD below #2 is nonsense. Better debate is whether he's #1. FTR, I dont think he is #1, but it's a better case than 3/4.
     
  23. snowmanny

    snowmanny Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Or 4/5, which is how they have him.

    By the way, how dumb is it to have a tie on a list like this, which can claim to accurately slot Simmons between Towns and Thompson and crap like that? Was it voted on by a panel and they tied in points?
     
  24. Jimbodandy

    Jimbodandy Member SoSH Member

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    I think that we have to look at everything as clickbait now, unfortunately.

    There is no metric that explains that list.
     
  25. the moops

    the moops Member SoSH Member

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    I would have Curry #2 on my list. Not sure that is a particularly hot take
     
  26. Kliq

    Kliq Member SoSH Member

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    The case for Curry over Durant is not indefensible imo; and is based around the idea that Curry's unique shooting ability, particularly off of the dribble, warps defenses in such a way that no other player in history has been able to do, and opens up more avenues for all of Curry's teammates to flourish. Curry impacts the game in a very non-traditional way in that regard, and it's reflected in his teams' winning percentage, as well as advanced metrics that all suggest he is one of the best players of his era.

    That however ignores the defensive side of the ball; where Durant is really one of the most versatile defenders in the game, capable of chasing guards on the perimeter as well as swatting shots at the rim. As multi-faceted as Durant is on the offensive end, he's nearly as gifted on the defensive side as well.
     
  27. Jimbodandy

    Jimbodandy Member SoSH Member

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    I think that you're wrong to have Curry over Durant at #2, but not nuts. Having Durant at #4 is nuts and disqualifies the listmaker as a serious person.
     
  28. Spelunker

    Spelunker Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Yeah, I'm fine with Curry over Durant. I mean, I disagree with it, but I'm fine with someone making that case.

    Harden over Durant is willfully stupid and/or trolling.
     
  29. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  30. Sam Ray Not

    Sam Ray Not Member SoSH Member

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    I can’t really judge Curry objectively since he’s never not been my guy, but with Durant I can draw on my impressions from his OKC days, and man, great as Harden is, KD always crushed him in the critical “scares the living shit out of me” and “please don’t let him face us in the playoffs” tests. The Warriors always had 3-4 guys who could hang defensively with Harden (Klay, Dre, Dray, Shaun, HBarnes); none of those guys could really handle KD.

    And that’s just the offensive end. While KD has never rated as a great defender over a full season, in big games he has tools to make his impact felt defensively at a completely different level from Harden (or Curry). I mean, KD can and does guard Anthony Davis. Good luck with that, Harden and Curry.

    Independent of context (which is what these lists strive to be) LeBron and KD have been the consensus two best players in the world for the last 5-6 years. Anyone who watches them even casually, on their teams or for Team USA, can see this pretty readily, and the efficiency/usage numbers pretty consistently bear it out. It takes a lot of overthinking, special pleading, and or click-baiting to put break up that pair, let alone drop KD to #4-5.

    (TLDR: I agree with all of you).
     
  31. Tony C

    Tony C Dope Dope

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    10,790
  32. jon abbey

    jon abbey Shanghai Warrior Dope SoSH Member

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    So if the NBA decreed tomorrow that GS could not play with both Durant and Curry going forward and you were inexplicably the one who was forced to make the choice, who would you keep? Presumably Durant, I just want to hear you say it as you see them the most of us.

    I can’t be the only one who watched the GS/HOU series last year and constantly thought about how I would order their five perimeter players, Durant was clearly the #1, then I’d go Curry/Harden/Paul/Klay, the last three are more debatable IMO.
     
  33. Big John

    Big John lurker

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    1,332
    I doubt if anyone is taking Dieng's deal (which doesn't end until 2021), especially the Heat, who will be paying a ton of luxury tax this year for a team with no chance of winning, even with Butler.

    I can construct credible packages for a dozen teams, including many from wannabe playoff teams in the EC, where I assume the Wolves will want to send Butler.

    Milwaukee: Snell, Henson, Teletovic. Pick any two
    Philadelphis: Covington and Bayless
    Toronto: straight up for Ibaka. Or Danny Green and C.J. Miles
    Washington: Austin Rivers and Markieff Morris
    Brooklyn: DeMarre Carroll and Caris LeVert
    Indiana: Evans and Bogdanovic
    Cleveland: Jordan Clarkson, Kyle Korver

    Any of these deals could be sweetened with picks, if necessary.
     
  34. The Social Chair

    The Social Chair Member SoSH Member

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  35. Sam Ray Not

    Sam Ray Not Member SoSH Member

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    5,072
    Cue the Imperial Death March theme...

     
  36. Sam Ray Not

    Sam Ray Not Member SoSH Member

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    5,072
  37. DeJesus Built My Hotrod

    DeJesus Built My Hotrod Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    27,043
    AKA Rajon Rondo and three people he will want to murder on the court by 11/30/18
     
  38. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    30,255
    Really wish Rondo weren’t in that photo because it would have been the biggest collection of basketball stupid ever captured in the same photo.
     
  39. DeJesus Built My Hotrod

    DeJesus Built My Hotrod Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    27,043
    [​IMG]
     
  40. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

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    Minnesota's owner might like a backcourt swap (i.e. Butler/Teague for Fultz/Bayless/Chandler), but that would be about ten weeks out and therefore not terribly practical.
     
  41. Sprowl

    Sprowl Emile de Becque Dope

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    30,684
  42. Caspir

    Caspir Member SoSH Member

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    5,154
    Looks like Beasley and McGee rode in together and hot boxed the fuck out of the car before heading into the building.
     
  43. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    17,080
    It's still offseason, right?

    Malik Monk was checking into tonights game at the scorers table. Dead ball ensues, officials wave him into the game, Monk removes his warmup...…..and there is no jersey beneath it! So the game goes on as Monk walks back to the locker room to put on his uniform.

    This may seem cute or a nothingburger to some but not to me. To me, it's a sign that the player is seriously lacking from the head up which is crucial to success in this cutthroat league. When you wonder why talented kids fail to make it in this league there is a very good chance it has to do with maturity, preparation, and understanding how to approach ones job as a professional.

    https://deadspin.com/no-one-involved-in-putting-malik-monk-into-hornets-pres-1829480529
     
  44. ElUno20

    ElUno20 Member SoSH Member

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    3,212
    Eh. Blake did the same thing last year. It's not a fatal offense
     
  45. cheech13

    cheech13 Member SoSH Member

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    Neither here nor there, but it's been almost twenty years since I played basketball at any competitive level and I still routinely have dreams where I show up for a game and have mistakenly left my jersey at home.
     
  46. Tony C

    Tony C Dope Dope

    Messages:
    10,790
    I can't imagine GMs put much thought into this survey, but thought it was interesting all the same:
    https://www.nba.com/gmsurvey/2018

    The most underrated acquisition or the biggest draft steal questions, for example. In re the latter:

    Which rookie was the biggest steal at where he was selected in the Draft?

    1. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (11), LA Clippers – 27%

    2. Svi Mykhailiuk (47), L.A. Lakers – 13%

    2. Wendell Carter Jr. (7), Chicago – 10%

    Michael Porter Jr. (14), Denver – 10%

    Gary Trent Jr. (37), Portland – 10%

    6. Luka Doncic (3), Dallas – 7%

    Kevin Knox (9), New York – 7%
     
  47. Kliq

    Kliq Member SoSH Member

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    I always like reading the GM survey, particularly for things that I don't know much about, like who is considered to be the best Assistant Coach in the NBA. The interesting one this year was "Who would you chose to build your franchise around?" Giannis won the vote, but last year's winner, KAT, didn't get a single vote, which I thought was odd because it wasn't like he had a lost season last year.

    LeBron being named the best leader was interesting. He's the most talented player and a smart guy, but for the last several years his teams have always had some weird behind-the-scenes drama. Leadership is hard to define, though.
     
  48. Imbricus

    Imbricus Member SoSH Member

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    1,178
    What? Not one vote for Williams? Doncic at 3 hardly seems a "steal." Even if you were convinced he should have gone #1, he dropped only two places. And he still has to show his flash translates to the NBA.
     
  49. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    Other GMs are sleeping on him.
     
  50. Tony C

    Tony C Dope Dope

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    The KAT thing popped to me, too -- you're right it wasn't a lost season for him, but nonetheless think his stock has significantly dropped.

    Hadn't noticed the LeBron leadership thing. Really hard to comment on behind the scenes stuff based only on media reports...I guess that might be one where I'd defer to GMs.

    Btw, is the one GM who didn't have Boston in the E Conf top 4 Ainge in a "don't jinx" sort of way? Or is there seriously someone who has 4 teams ahead of the Celts? I'll assume the former.
     

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