Xavier Tillman to Celtics for 2 2nd round picks

InstaFace

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He should be a better defender of BIGs than Grant, who got found out by the end.
I dunno, I think Bam is still looking for him.

There aren't many 7 footers who can shoot, which is Grant's kryptonite, and they largely can't move him and can't dance around him. When he's focused and trying, he can stay in front of really big strong guys, as long as they can't just pull up and shoot over him.
 

Euclis20

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I dunno, I think Bam is still looking for him.

There aren't many 7 footers who can shoot, which is Grant's kryptonite, and they largely can't move him and can't dance around him. When he's focused and trying, he can stay in front of really big strong guys, as long as they can't just pull up and shoot over him.
Better against Giannis than Embiid, that's for sure.
 

Eddie Jurak

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He also seems to know how to shut the fuck up. In other words nothing like Grant.

Can't we just love him for who he is?
Jesus fucking Christ.

He's a good, perhaps better than good player who I hope will be re-signed. But he is a career 26% 3-point shooter and this year he has been shooting below 40% outside of 3 feet. I agree it is good he doesn't yap like Grant did, but I wasn't commenting on that.
 
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DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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End of bench player who may not be here after June. I like what Tillman brings but if you look at his salary, it tells you all you need to know about his worth in the NBA. He is valuable but for a fairly narrow range of things.
 

chilidawg

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Jesus fucking Christ.

He's a good, perhaps better than good player who I hope will be re-signed. But he is a career 26% 3-point shooter and this year he has been shooting below 40% outside of 3 feet. I agree it is good he doesn't yap like Grant did, but I wasn't commenting on that.
He can't shoot, keeps his mouth shut, defends bigs well. All are nothing like Grant. I'm not sure what that I said is pissing you off so much. Maybe more smilies will help. :);):p:cool:
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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He's still on this rookie deal, right?
Your are spot on and my lazy post did a poor job. His price point in terms of a trade also tell you about his value. Aside from a few people hoping for a draft heist in three/four years and Lamar Stevens fans, he was available for pocket change and lint.

I really like Tillman and I think he brings an edge this team is lacking however he is just another tool in the team's toolkit. Maybe he gets a lot of run during the playoffs but I suspect he will be used situationally and people pining for far fewer Kornet minutes are going to be disappointed. But maybe that's wrong and Tillman quickly becomes a big part of the rotation - defensively he is definitely credible.
 

Devizier

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Your are spot on and my lazy post did a poor job. His price point in terms of a trade also tell you about his value. Aside from a few people hoping for a draft heist in three/four years and Lamar Stevens fans, he was available for pocket change and lint.
Plenty of guys like that find a role in the league. Tillman has enough skills and could be a system fit to the extent that the Celtics keep him around. I see it as a different flavor of Kornet.
 

Auger34

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Plenty of guys like that find a role in the league. Tillman has enough skills and could be a system fit to the extent that the Celtics keep him around. I see it as a different flavor of Kornet.
I don’t know about that…before Kornet came to the Celtics I think he had literally 0 value.
Tillman cost 2 2nd rounders at the least.

It seems like some posters overrated Tillman in this thread (talking about baby Horford and how their shooting could be similar) and then there was pushback which has now underrated him.

IMO, the guy is a legitimate top 8-9 player who is a better player with more value than Kornet. Love the size and BBIQ but unfortunately his shot is pretty shot
 

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Kornet had an injury that stopped him from being able to shoot threes. I love Luke, very solid player, perfect fit for the offense, amazing chemistry guy. But Tillman is just better lol, and going to be a real part of this team going forward.

Something I kept telling people after the trade was that Tillman’s ability as a passer will be a real asset for this team, especially on the short roll.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I don't know what the future holds and I have no idea how the Cs coaching staff views these guys but Mazzulla feels like a coach who values execution over upside. Tillman may well be the superior player over time but I don't think he is right now - he got a lot of leash in Memphis with all their injuries and his results were mixed. My guess is that even if he has more upside, he is going to have to earn non-situational minutes via gameplay. That's possible or maybe the Cs have bigger plans already.

It really hard to say Tillman is the better player at present.

78924
 

RorschachsMask

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It really hard to say Tillman is the better player at present.

View attachment 78924
EPM has Tillman as -0.1, heavily dinged by his inefficient shooting this year. Kornet at -1.8. LEBRON has them pretty similar, 0.17 for Luke, and 0.26 for Tillman.

Tillman grades out as elite defensively by pretty much any measure, so it’s about hoping that he’s closer to the 75% shooter within 3 feet from last season, as opposed to the guy shooting 59% this year.
 

slamminsammya

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I think in the playoffs you much rather have the guy who is an elite defender and kinda shit at everything else than Kornet who is solid in several areas but top notch in none.
 

Red Averages

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You know it’s a good season, borderline historic when the passionate debates are about the 3rd string center and postseason fit.
 

lovegtm

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He's a decent 2nd-string center, and they acquired him to pay him as such next summer. He needs time to get his fit with the team right.

He's very elite defensively, and the hope is that his previously decent offensive numbers were dragged down by playing with Memphis' G-League lineups. Seriously, who watched the most recent Memphis game in Boston? Borderline unwatchable, total trash team with absolutely everyone hurt.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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He's a decent 2nd-string center, and they acquired him to pay him as such next summer. He needs time to get his fit with the team right.

He's very elite defensively, and the hope is that his previously decent offensive numbers were dragged down by playing with Memphis' G-League lineups. Seriously, who watched the most recent Memphis game in Boston? Borderline unwatchable, total trash team with absolutely everyone hurt.
Actually if you like grind em out teams, similar to how the early Brad Stevens teams played you can do far worse than Memphis.

That team, regardless of personnel, plays as hard as anyone imo. Even with all their injuries. They are likely to be tough next season even in a crowded WC.
 

lovegtm

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Actually if you like grind em out teams, similar to how the early Brad Stevens teams played you can do far worse than Memphis.

That team, regardless of personnel, plays as hard as anyone imo. Even with all their injuries. They are likely to be tough next season even in a crowded WC.
Yeah, I was trying to be pretty specific about how bad/sad that game was to watch, and how little talent they have.

They definitely grind it out, but it was a.....sub-optimal environment for someone like Tillman to score in.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Plenty of guys like that find a role in the league. Tillman has enough skills and could be a system fit to the extent that the Celtics keep him around. I see it as a different flavor of Kornet.
He’s not going to be Kornet-level cheap to keep around though especially if he finds a postseason role on this team. I know we talk about Wyc paying tax and everything but there has to be a limit somewhere.
 

Red Averages

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He’s not going to be Kornet-level cheap to keep around though especially if he finds a postseason role on this team. I know we talk about Wyc paying tax and everything but there has to be a limit somewhere.
Yeah, but in this case i do wonder if this can be spun as the Horford insurance for the next 2-3 years. Given he’s the most likely to fall off/get hurt/retire
 

lovegtm

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He’s not going to be Kornet-level cheap to keep around though especially if he finds a postseason role on this team. I know we talk about Wyc paying tax and everything but there has to be a limit somewhere.
If he's good enough, you start thinking about things like paying him, and then salary-dumping soon-to-be-then-39 year-old Horford.

Sounds extreme, but if he actually is a long-term solution at backup C, you don't let a guy who's almost 40 stand in the way.
 

Red Averages

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If he's good enough, you start thinking about things like paying him, and then salary-dumping soon-to-be-then-39 year-old Horford.

Sounds extreme, but if he actually is a long-term solution at backup C, you don't let a guy who's almost 40 stand in the way.
Absolutely. But in order to do so CKXT had better spend his summer getting 3s up.
 

lovegtm

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Absolutely. But in order to do so CKXT had better spend his summer getting 3s up.
imo 3-point shooting for centers is very overrated on teams that can always put 4 other shooters on the floor.

Defense, passing, and screening can easily offset a non-shooting center, if he does those things well.
 

chilidawg

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I don't know what the future holds and I have no idea how the Cs coaching staff views these guys but Mazzulla feels like a coach who values execution over upside. Tillman may well be the superior player over time but I don't think he is right now - he got a lot of leash in Memphis with all their injuries and his results were mixed. My guess is that even if he has more upside, he is going to have to earn non-situational minutes via gameplay. That's possible or maybe the Cs have bigger plans already.

It really hard to say Tillman is the better player at present.

View attachment 78924
I wouldn't be surprised to see his DARKO trend up with a change in scenery.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Your are spot on and my lazy post did a poor job. His price point in terms of a trade also tell you about his value. Aside from a few people hoping for a draft heist in three/four years and Lamar Stevens fans, he was available for pocket change and lint.

I really like Tillman and I think he brings an edge this team is lacking however he is just another tool in the team's toolkit. Maybe he gets a lot of run during the playoffs but I suspect he will be used situationally and people pining for far fewer Kornet minutes are going to be disappointed. But maybe that's wrong and Tillman quickly becomes a big part of the rotation - defensively he is definitely credible.
For this season, I could see things going various different ways with Tillman. I think he has the skillset to be a good backup big on this team, but he still is working on learning the system. Obviously he has to figure that out before he can be a regular playoff option. If he does, then his minutes could either come from Kornet or from Pritchard with the Celtics going to more of a consistent 2-big look. I think the latter is a real possibility if Pritchard's defense doesn't hold up in the playoffs. Right now they use a mix of 1- and 2- big lineups and Pritchard gets 20 minutes per game. If they go to more 2-big looks he is the guy who will lose minutes with Brown playing more at the 2 than the 3, Tatum more at the 3 than the 4. Previously, Grant and Horford both filled roles as bigs who could handle being switched out onto the perimeter. XT is bigger than Grant who was always a smallish big, but he can do some of that.

Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if he's just a spot minutes guy in the playoffs or if he carves out more of a regular role.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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While we're talking about X, here's an article with clips talking about his defensive impact (also has material on John Konchar, who we talked about in the trade deadline discussion): https://subtsakalidis.substack.com/p/xavier-tillman-john-konchar-defense-grizzlies. One thing I didn't know:
Tillman isn’t an emphatic shot-blocker like his frontcourt partner Jaren Jackson Jr., nor does he possess the measurements of most imposing rim deterrents. However, he’s a phenomenal rim protector. He ranks 5th in “Rim defensive field goal percentage vs. expected,” as opponents shoot 13.2% worse with Tillman defending the rim — per The B-Ball Index. He offsets physical limitations with impeccable timing and smart contests.
I think BOS is going to make every effort to re-sign him as they do have limited ways of adding to the roster once this season is over.
 

benhogan

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For this season, I could see things going various different ways with Tillman. I think he has the skillset to be a good backup big on this team, but he still is working on learning the system. Obviously he has to figure that out before he can be a regular playoff option. If he does, then his minutes could either come from Kornet or from Pritchard with the Celtics going to more of a consistent 2-big look. I think the latter is a real possibility if Pritchard's defense doesn't hold up in the playoffs. Right now they use a mix of 1- and 2- big lineups and Pritchard gets 20 minutes per game. If they go to more 2-big looks he is the guy who will lose minutes with Brown playing more at the 2 than the 3, Tatum more at the 3 than the 4. Previously, Grant and Horford both filled roles as bigs who could handle being switched out onto the perimeter. XT is bigger than Grant who was always a smallish big, but he can do some of that.

Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if he's just a spot minutes guy in the playoffs or if he carves out more of a regular role.
Agreed. 2BIGz Versatility to match up against larger frontlines (at the expense of PP)

Tillman also provides overall Center injury insurance (KP questionable today)

He won't be guarded on the perimeter BUT expect pindown screens, pick/short roles from the top, & cutting/crashing from the Corner. Any scoring from the 5th option is a bonus.
 

jmcc5400

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Agreed. 2BIGz Versatility to match up against larger frontlines (at the expense of PP)

Tillman also provides overall Center injury insurance (KP questionable today)

He won't be guarded on the perimeter BUT expect pindown screens, pick/short roles from the top, & cutting/crashing from the Corner. Any scoring from the 5th option is a bonus.
Given the "reckless" way that Draymond plays, I'd just as soon have KP watch this one from the bench and see what XT can do in an extended run.
 

TripleOT

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Tillman has shown a lot of good signs in short minutes with the Celtics. He sets a heck of a pick and when he makes the short roll into the lane he knows what to do with the ball when he gets it quickly. He can move his feet and cover some ground against smaller players in the pickle roll game, and has looked pretty stout under the basket. I watched a lot of Memphis playoff games last season, and he really battled when he had to step in as the third string center.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Tillman has shown a lot of good signs in short minutes with the Celtics. He sets a heck of a pick and when he makes the short roll into the lane he knows what to do with the ball when he gets it quickly. He can move his feet and cover some ground against smaller players in the pickle roll game, and has looked pretty stout under the basket. I watched a lot of Memphis playoff games last season, and he really battled when he had to step in as the third string center.
The year prior Tillman was starting and playing 30 mpg in the playoffs. This kid is far from a Queta-like stiff.
 

lovegtm

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The year prior Tillman was starting and playing 30 mpg in the playoffs. This kid is far from a Queta-like stiff.
He's an elite defender in his physical prime.

I hope this doesn't happen, and it would be a slog/rockfight, but they could probably make the Finals now even if one of KP/Al missed significant playoff time.
 

benhogan

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He's an elite defender in his physical prime.

I hope this doesn't happen, and it would be a slog/rockfight, but they could probably make the Finals now even if one of KP/Al missed significant playoff time.
Yep. A bunch of teams (OKC, 76ers) could have used Tillman, on a minimum deal, this season. Fantastic insurance policy.

Brad has turned a negative, Center Depth, into a source of strength at the cost of a couple of 2nds.

Not expecting a robust FA market for him or Luke or Queta. Would love to see all 3 return
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Man, its been a minute since Queta has even seen the floor. I don't think he's even played garbage time in a while.
He's been inactive since the ASB. With the arrival of Tillman, there aren't any minutes for him.

Coincidentally (or not), he also has a knee injury that is going to keep him out another couple of weeks.
 

lovegtm

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Yep. A bunch of teams (OKC, 76ers) could have used Tillman, on a minimum deal, this season. Fantastic insurance policy.

Brad has turned a negative, Center Depth, into a source of strength at the cost of a couple of 2nds.

Not expecting a robust FA market for him or Luke or Queta. Would love to see all 3 return
I think we'll end up a bit surprised at how high Tillman's number is ($6-8M/year?), but I also expect the Celtics to pay it, because he's much better than Kornet, can be a long-term solution at the backup 5 as Horford ages out, and Horford comes off the books after next season.

Should we talk at some point about whether Al will ever age? He looks as good as ever at nearly 38.
 

benhogan

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I think we'll end up a bit surprised at how high Tillman's number is ($6-8M/year?), but I also expect the Celtics to pay it, because he's much better than Kornet, can be a long-term solution at the backup 5 as Horford ages out, and Horford comes off the books after next season.

Should we talk at some point about whether Al will ever age? He looks as good as ever at nearly 38.
Hoping Brad extends Horford this summer (& signs Tillman to that number for multiple years)

eventually 25 mpg + load management, probably good for a few more seasons as the backup 5.
His 3pt stroke is mustard.

I could envision Al here into his 40s (Udonis Haslem role if need be). Horford is universally respected in the NBA
 

lars10

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I think we'll end up a bit surprised at how high Tillman's number is ($6-8M/year?), but I also expect the Celtics to pay it, because he's much better than Kornet, can be a long-term solution at the backup 5 as Horford ages out, and Horford comes off the books after next season.

Should we talk at some point about whether Al will ever age? He looks as good as ever at nearly 38.
I like Tillman as an addition.. but is he better than Kornet, let alone much better? Post 214 has their Darko charts.. and at the moment it looks like Kornet is actually the better player.
 

lovegtm

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I like Tillman as an addition.. but is he better than Kornet, let alone much better? Post 214 has their Darko charts.. and at the moment it looks like Kornet is actually the better player.
Break it down by offense and defense. Tillman is an elite defender by Darko, eye test, anything really.

His offense was dragged down by playing on a Memphis team that had all its scoring talent hurt. If Kornet played for Memphis, he'd look awful offensively too.
 

bigq

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I like Tillman as an addition.. but is he better than Kornet, let alone much better? Post 214 has their Darko charts.. and at the moment it looks like Kornet is actually the better player.
I think Kornet is better on offense than Tillman while Tillman is better than Kornet defensively and DARKO shows that as well.

Tillman is a big strong physical wide body and he works like hell on the defensive side. I watched him closely in the second half of yesterday's game and he was pretty much 100% effort on defense all the time.

I like Luke a lot but he is not the defensive stopper that Tillman is. I can see Tillman getting situational minutes in the playoffs in match up specific roles against other bigs like Embiid.

The Celtics bench is really good this year. Will be fun to see CJM tinker with line ups over the next 20+ regular season games.
 

lars10

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Break it down by offense and defense. Tillman is an elite defender by Darko, eye test, anything really.

His offense was dragged down by playing on a Memphis team that had all its scoring talent hurt. If Kornet played for Memphis, he'd look awful offensively too.
I’m not as familiar with how Darko works .. but to me their peaks look the same and Tilman’s peak was 200 games ago.. while Kornet is rising. I like both of them… just wonder if Luke is being undervalued. As he’s gotten minutes I feel like he’s gotten better. Decent rim protection and pretty much dunking anything on the offensive side. Tillman may fit in better in the long run.. maybe as a better passer… but I think they both bring something good to the table.
 

lars10

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I think Kornet is better on offense than Tillman while Tillman is better than Kornet defensively and DARKO shows that as well.

Tillman is a big strong physical wide body and he works like hell on the defensive side. I watched him closely in the second half of yesterday's game and he was pretty much 100% effort on defense all the time.

I like Luke a lot but he is not the defensive stopper that Tillman is. I can see Tillman getting situational minutes in the playoffs in match up specific roles against other bigs like Embiid.

The Celtics bench is really good this year. Will be fun to see CJM tinker with line ups over the next 20+ regular season games.
I’m happy they’re both here, you can never have enough bigs... nightmares of Perkins going down in the playoffs etc. CJM has seemed to have gotten a lot better with rotations.. and both of them have a great attitude about being ready whenever they get minutes.
 

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Hoping Brad extends Horford this summer (& signs Tillman to that number for multiple years)

eventually 25 mpg + load management, probably good for a few more seasons as the backup 5.
His 3pt stroke is mustard.

I could envision Al here into his 40s (Udonis Haslem role if need be). Horford is universally respected in the NBA
On the flip side, I could see Al winning a Chip and retiring. A ring almost certainly cements his HOF creds.
 

benhogan

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I like Tillman as an addition.. but is he better than Kornet, let alone much better? Post 214 has their Darko charts.. and at the moment it looks like Kornet is actually the better player.
We discussed Brad's bench approach before the season started. While the NBA media incessantly described the Celtics bench as weak, many of us didn't see it that way. Since Boston will play at least 2-3 All-Star level players you want your bench to be complimentary players who understand their roles & are extremely good at one thing. In Tillman's case, metrics show him to be an excellent defensive Center.

The Celtics' TOP8 players are all PLUS offensive players. XT will always be the 5th option on offense. He can add plenty of value on the offensive end by running around setting screens for those 8.

Setting wipeout screens probably does nothing for his advanced Box Score metrics, but will help his teammates be more efficient scorers.
 

lovegtm

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The Memphis broadcast team would yell "X gon give it to ya!" whenever he made a big play, and that should probably be the title of this thread, since I can't unhear it now whenever I watch him play.
 

lars10

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We discussed Brad's bench approach before the season started. While the NBA media incessantly described the Celtics bench as weak, many of us didn't see it that way. Since Boston will play at least 2-3 All-Star level players you want your bench to be complimentary players who understand their roles & are extremely good at one thing. In Tillman's case, metrics show him to be an excellent defensive Center.

The Celtics' TOP8 players are all PLUS offensive players. XT will always be the 5th option on offense. He can add plenty of value on the offensive end by running around setting screens for those 8.

Setting wipeout screens probably does nothing for his advanced Box Score metrics, but will help his teammates be more efficient scorers.
Yeah.. I think this is just a way of stating what I mean, but better said. I think Tilman brings a particular set of skills... different than Kornet's. But they're both complimentary to the team and the players we have. The bench may have been 'weak' to start the season, but when you have a starting five as good as they are, that can then be played with the bench in any number of configurations.. that bench doesn't look as bad. And you also have a sixth man that could start on other teams. With that said, I also think that Hauser, PP and Kornet have all improved fairly significantly this year. It helps that they're all a lot more open this year, but I also feel like they're playing with more confidence/have more experience. Adding another very serviceable player to that group is almost ridiculous.

Edit: 7 players still on this team that played against the Warriors in the finals.. feel like they all had that game circled on the calendar.