Marrero is much better at SS.Was there any reason given for Lin going to SS and Marrero to 3rd instead of vice versa? Is Lin considered the better defensive SS?
Marrero is much better at SS.Was there any reason given for Lin going to SS and Marrero to 3rd instead of vice versa? Is Lin considered the better defensive SS?
And at 3rd. He's there again tonight.Marrero is much better at SS.
No. He's treating the trade scenario like a trade in The Show. Fill up the meter and you get you guy! There is absolutely no way the Red Sox would trade Devers for Rosenthal and Gyorko. None.
Not even.I was going to say it sounds fair.
If they also take Panda and his salary.
I just saw Devers at bat in the Futures game. He looked like a very young kid and struck out. I am not claiming this means anything at all. It's just that I'd never seen him before and was surprised he looked so young. Lin looks very mature in comparison.It would make some sense if you were talking a guy who was blocked, lets say an OF who was tearing up AA.
It makes no sense to trade an up and coming 3B who is so close to being ready for a 3B. As Snod said and the guy that wrote this pretty much stated there is a decent chance Devers would be just about as good as Gyorko is right now.
If the Sox trade for a 3B it will be a rental who will cost them a spare part and a lottery ticket.
Michael Chavis we hardly knew ye.what do you think that would cost us? Prado through 2019? salary dump from the marlins?
I'm not advocating that Devers be brought up now(though I can see how you would read it that way) I just don't see any reason to trade for someone who may not be better than him right now.I just saw Devers at bat in the Futures game. He looked like a very young kid and struck out. I am not claiming this means anything at all. It's just that I'd never seen him before and was surprised he looked so young. Lin looks very mature in comparison.
Its not going to cost ChavisMichael Chavis we hardly knew ye.
This is stupid. Why are we giving up assets to add to the bullpen - which has been the strongest part of the team. And won't Prado put the team over the LT?
Not to mention Prado sucks. And will continue to suck , blocking Devers next year.
The bullpen success is mostly a mirage outside of Kimbrel. Barnes is a disaster on the road, Kelly's numbers absolutely SCREAM regression, Abad is no where near as good as his ERA, Thornburg is probably toast this year and Carson Smith getting back on the mound and being effective this year is looking more and more like a pipe dream. They need bullpen help if they want to win in October.Michael Chavis we hardly knew ye.
This is stupid. Why are we giving up assets to add to the bullpen - which has been the strongest part of the team. And won't Prado put the team over the LT?
Not to mention Prado sucks. And will continue to suck , blocking Devers next year.
So a couple things. Joe Kelly has 3.01 fip and a 3.93 xfip. If those are the numbers he puts up the rest of the year, then that is fine. Matt Barnes has a 3.25 fip and a 3.35 xfip which are both very close to his ERA. Thornburg is gone this year and possibly forever since he got Thoracic outlet surgery and yeah I agree with your assessment of Smith. At the end of the day though, getting David Phelp or really anybody is not going to help the bullpen if it is really as bad as you seem to think it is. If the bullpen really is that bad then we are talking about having to get a couple bullpen arms in there. That being said, I think the numbers prove the bullpen might be due for some regression, but overall is very solid.The bullpen success is mostly a mirage outside of Kimbrel. Barnes is a disaster on the road, Kelly's numbers absolutely SCREAM regression, Abad is no where near as good as his ERA, Thornburg is probably toast this year and Carson Smith getting back on the mound and being effective this year is looking more and more like a pipe dream. They need bullpen help if they want to win in October.
At first base with Travis being the fall back/insurance plan maybe, since I really can't envision a scenario at this point where DD doesn't end up putting the "my guy" tag on Moustakas as a FA. Once Pablo is finally gone and Linsanity has run it's natural course, the potential check marks are going to make a pretty convincing case this winter when we probably won't have much of an outside shopping list otherwise:Devers starts next year after a Sept call up. DD knows what he is doing.
Prado is a solid, all around 3 win player. He doesn't suck at all.Michael Chavis we hardly knew ye.
This is stupid. Why are we giving up assets to add to the bullpen - which has been the strongest part of the team. And won't Prado put the team over the LT?
Not to mention Prado sucks. And will continue to suck , blocking Devers next year.
I will be shocked if he ever takes the field for them again. The time to move on is now...Am I the only one who thinks Sandoval gets DFAed before Friday? Seems like the most logical time
Not this year he isn't. And he's 33 so improvement is unlikely.Prado is a solid, all around 3 win player. He doesn't suck at all.
He is a bit old though and signed through 2019 which could create a log jam next year.
If they took on his full contract, they probably wouldn't have to give up a ton.
It's not that he's terrible, but taking on his contract (which still has $28.5m left on it after this year) is probably a deal breaker alone there. Before even getting into what Swihart+ type flyer they'd be willing to take for him.Prado is a solid, all around 3 win player. He doesn't suck at all.
He is a bit old though and signed through 2019 which could create a log jam next year.
If they took on his full contract, they probably wouldn't have to give up a ton.
I was arguing that he didn't suck (3.1 and 3.8 WAR the past two years and been on the DL half the year this year) and that it wouldn't take Chavis if they took on his whole contract. It's not a great fit for this team unless they can flip him again when Devers is ready.It's not that he's terrible, but taking on his contract (which still has $28.5m left on it after this year) is probably a deal breaker alone there. Before even getting into what Swihart+ type flyer they'd be willing to take for him.
I don't see the Sox having a big problem with over the cap spending, but it won't be in the name of a somewhat mediocre solution like him imo.
AAA stats:I will be shocked if he ever takes the field for them again. The time to move on is now...
Take a look at the home road splits for Barnes. He's horrendous on the road. And a 3.93 xFIP is not good for a reliever by any stretch of the imagination. They have exactly one pitcher I'd be comfortable with late in a playoff game with a lead. That's it.So a couple things. Joe Kelly has 3.01 fip and a 3.93 xfip. If those are the numbers he puts up the rest of the year, then that is fine. Matt Barnes has a 3.25 fip and a 3.35 xfip which are both very close to his ERA. Thornburg is gone this year and possibly forever since he got Thoracic outlet surgery and yeah I agree with your assessment of Smith. At the end of the day though, getting David Phelp or really anybody is not going to help the bullpen if it is really as bad as you seem to think it is. If the bullpen really is that bad then we are talking about having to get a couple bullpen arms in there. That being said, I think the numbers prove the bullpen might be due for some regression, but overall is very solid.
It's not always about min/maxing paper value. You are factoring in Devers' on-field value at the MLB level before he even essentially has any. The bat potential is the real sell there imo, and where he ends up playing for us is more the gravy.But I really can't see Moustakas either as a FA signing. It doesn't make sense to move either him or Devers over to 1b since it weakens one of their values significantly. You mentioned Devers' defense, and the knock has been primarily that he'd eventually need to move off of 1b, not that he couldn't play there now (look at Speier's link upthread ). Why block him with a mid-tier guy before that happens?
Do you really see the Sox signing Moustakas to a Pablo-level deal? Because that's probably what it takes. Pablo was a year younger than Moustakas will be as a FA, but they are roughly equal over their last 3 years with the bat and Moose is better with the glove. And overall salary inflation. 5 years, $90 million is not out of the realm of possibility for Moose and it could be more. And he's certainly not settling for a shorter duration.It's not always about min/maxing paper value. You are factoring in Devers' on-field value at the MLB level before he even essentially has any. The bat potential is the real sell there imo, and where he ends up playing for us is more the gravy.
Like the surrounding David Price scenario before it I ultimately just see the fit making too much sense at the time. With this being more in our FO's typical spending wheel house to boot (he's getting paid, but he's not getting that monster mega deal), and not even requiring the outside our comfort zone reach Price did.
Take a look at the home road splits for Barnes. He's horrendous on the road. And a 3.93 xFIP is not good for a reliever by any stretch of the imagination. They have exactly one pitcher I'd be comfortable with late in a playoff game with a lead. That's it.
Maybe he doesn't sleep well other than at home. Actually, career, his home/away numbers are very close. This year his home/away numbers could still be called small sample size. That's what Farrell and Willis will conclude. Or, might they move Hembree ahead of him in the depth chart? I think they go status quo for a while. They just swapped Kelly and Barnes. Have to let that sit for a while.There is not a logical bone in my body that can explain away a home-road split like that except for (a) remarkable coincidence, or (b) EV.
It's not like his pitching is impacted by the shape of the field or the weather.
Considering a probable LT reset on the horizon, and where they are plus will be in relationship to the current window? Absolutely. Given the market lately and depending on where Moustakas' OBP for the year ends up it could also play out to be less too btw.Do you really see the Sox signing Moustakas to a Pablo-level deal? Because that's probably what it takes. Pablo was a year younger than Moustakas will be as a FA, but they are roughly equal over their last 3 years with the bat and Moose is better with the glove. And overall salary inflation. 5 years, $90 million is not out of the realm of possibility for Moose and it could be more. And he's certainly not settling for a shorter duration.
Mike Moustakas will go into the offseason with a career wRC+ of right around 100, with his most recent three years at about 120. On November 1, 2014, Pablo Sandoval's career wRC+ was 122, with his most recent three years at 114. Obviously, the trend direction in Moustakas' case is better, but I think it's a stretch to suggest that there's a clear difference in value between Sandoval then and Moustakas now. It's hard to remember, but when we signed him Pablo was an above-average player according to basically everybody. Not as good a player as the World Series hype made some think, but a good player.Not quite sure how you are measuring up that Pablo comparison either btw, but I'm not seeing it. Pablo's signing basically just amounted to covering the hole with a body while using WAR value at it's worst imo, where as Moustakas is more of a tailored to the current roster solution that buys out a bunch of questionable variables that could/would otherwise be going into next year's overall build equation.
As opposed to what, watching a team that obviously could use more power in the middle of the lineup fall short and do nothing of note in response other then hand off both corner IF jobs to 2 unproven rookies? Or do we just take another flyer on MM and see DD parade that around as his centerpiece fix all winter. Because there is probably no David Price signing or Chris Sale trade happening otherwise, and I'm also left guessing that for better or for worse we'll be spending a lot of time talking about a full health return of both Thornburg/Smith.Mitch Moreland has a higher wRC+ for his career than Moustakas. we are going to sign another mediocre 3B to a FA deal just because there is nothing else going on this offseason? He is a mediocre player having a career year right before he hits FA.
See above for my thoughts on trying to penalize Moustakas for his early career struggles.Mike Moustakas will go into the offseason with a career wRC+ of right around 100, with his most recent three years at about 120. On November 1, 2014, Pablo Sandoval's career wRC+ was 122, with his most recent three years at 114. Obviously, the trend direction in Moustakas' case is better, but I think it's a stretch to suggest that there's a clear difference in value between Sandoval then and Moustakas now. It's hard to remember, but when we signed him Pablo was an above-average player according to basically everybody. Not as good a player as the World Series hype made some think, but a good player.
Yup. He's had four appearances on the road where he gave up multiple runs, a total of nine runs in those four games. Of the 16 he's allowed all year. He's had 23 appearances on the road and didn't allow a run in 16 of them. So I don't think he's allergic to pitching in road games.There's no real reason to believe his "on the road" numbers are any more real than his home numbers. Most likely, he's somewhere in between. As almost always with relievers, the numbers are small, and small numbers are easily influenced by variance. The 3.467 OPS he gave up in 5 PA in Minnesota drags his full season OPS up 20 points, and I'm sure walking 2 guys, giving up 2HR, and getting one out makes a tangible difference in FIP/xFIP when the denominator is 20 innings. The point isn't that these shitshows don't count, or didn't happen, it's that reading too much into when and where they happened isn't wise.
I agree completely. Let's not waste any more capital on the suck that is 3B.I'm so confused. Why are we talking about Moustakas again? Even the ridiculous scenario where the Red Sox waste the rest of Devers' 2017 in AA despite having no acceptable major league third baseman, he's gotta be first pick for the job in 2018 and certainly you wouldn't sign a guy who would block him for years in 2018. You don't sign a third baseman FA when your top prospect is a 3B.
And, the Royals have been the best team in the AL over the past month, they are 1.5 games back in the wildcard and still competitive for the division. They look like buyers, not sellers at the deadlne.
As for Prado, I think the basic attitude should be, sure we will take him. What will the Marlins give us in return?
We did not giveCould end up being one of the worst trades in the last 15 years.
for aup one of the NL MVP's
. Thornburg was a very good, young, cost-controlled arm and may still have a future with us. The trade was notuseless kid from the Brewers
, it was a rational decision. And I certainly wouldn't trade Rafael f-ing Devers now for Travis Shaw straight up. Would you?DD's complete screw up
Oh hell no.After DD's complete screw up with Travis Shaw... Would you trade Devers for Shaw straight up right now?
The more I think about it, the more I think this is the best option. We need to do two things. 1) Make the post-season, preferably by winning the division and 2) Have a team that can get hot in October.I agree completely. Let's not waste any more capital on the suck that is 3B.
Have a bet both ways on Lin; Marrero can capably provide good defence and a very occasional good day at the plate, and get Devers a cup of coffee a six weeks from now, and aim for him to start at 3B in 2018. Tired of wasting good prospects on bad acquisitions.
edited for clarity
No. Nobody would do that. Nobody would do anything close to that.After DD's complete screw up with Travis Shaw... Would you trade Devers for Shaw straight up right now?
I would say it's more like three, since Sandoval, Peralta, and Marrero are obviously terrible.I actually think they can, and should, wait a couple weeks to decide on 3B: between Sandoval, Peralta, Holt, Lin, Marrero, and Devers, you have six possible options.
Stating the obvious, perhaps, but I think Peralta is the first to be shipped off the island. There's no contractual obligation and he's shown next to nothing.No. Nobody would do that. Nobody would do anything close to that.
I would say it's more like three, since Sandoval, Peralta, and Marrero are obviously terrible.
Peralta's current line in Pawtucket: .200/.195/.375. Tough to have an OBP lower than your BA but that's what you get with a 11/0 K/BB ratio. But at least he makes up for his horrendous bat with defense that is merely very bad.
His OPS vs lefties in the minors by seasonIs there any chance at all that Marrero continues to be not shitty against LHPs, such that he's at least platoon-worthy, in addition to being versatile?
Holt has made 90 starts at third base in season seasons of major league ball and he hasn't fielded especially well at that position. He also has had an average OPS+ of 91 during those years with 98 being his top. He is a utility player you bring off the bench but he does have the advantage over Lin/Marrero of having played the four infield positions as well as both corner outfield ones. Frankly, If I were the Red Sox (based on what I have seen so far) I would try to expand Lin's positioning with the idea of making him the man off the bench....but when Holt gets back, having no platoon split, I would hope he'd get a shot.
Lin had no career L/R split in the minors and this year had identical slash lines vs L and R in the minors. This is only true if you say Lin doesn't hit righties well either.It has worked short term because neither Lin nor Panda (nor Peralta recently) hit lefties well, but when Holt gets back, having no platoon split, I would hope he'd get a shot.
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