Who's on Third? I don't know

[grimshaw]

FWIW - Nunez isn't in the lineup in SF - though it's a day game after a night game so could be a rest day. He can also play SS and LF so maybe if Bogaerts needs to be DL'd he is capable there.

 

[joe dokes]

FWIW - Nunez isn't in the lineup in SF - though it's a day game after a night game so could be a rest day.

I'm no fan of Nunez. But a 3Bman with 93 OPS+ with 17 SBs improves the team. The fact that as an absolute matter, he sorta sucks, only means he should cost less to acquire.

 

[Snodgrass'Muff]

Meanwhile...


Devers goes oppo deep. You look at this collection of total mediocrity and it starts becoming really clear that the best 3B option for this team is already in the system by the name of Rafael Devers.

Yep. Tread water with Lin/Marrero/Holt until some time in August, call the kid up and profit. I'd be very surprised if he can't provide league average offense with some pop and average to slightly above average defense right now. So, basically, I'm putting his floor at about Todd Frazier.

 

[DanoooME]

What could go wrong picking up a 3B from the Giants?

Not a lot since he's only due ~$1.75M for the rest of the season, then is a free agent. He's got some versatility too, so that couldn't hurt.

Plus, his OPS is decent. He doesn't draw walks, but doesn't strike out either. And he hits a lot better on the road than at home (OPS 790 vs. 643)

If he costs a lottery ticket, so be it. He's not as bad an option as moving someone over there and/or overpaying for mediocrity.

 

[AB in DC]

Yep. Tread water with Lin/Marrero/Holt until some time in August, call the kid up and profit.

SSS and all, Devers is definitely raking in AAA (1.266 OPS), but 2 errors in 5 games is not what you want to see if there is any thought that his glove isn't ML-ready.

 

[HriniakPosterChild]

Texas is 17.5 games back in the division but only 3.5 out of a wildcard spot. They may not be quite ready to raise the white flag.

This is the trouble with the extra wildcard spot.

If you arbitrarily pick "more than 4 games back" as the point where a team is out of the race, the only AL sellers today are: BAL, DET, TOR, OAK and CWS. Half of the damned league thinks they're in contention.

 

[Cumberland Blues]

...call the kid up and profit. I'd be very surprised if he can't provide league average offense with some pop and average to slightly above average defense right now.

If he could play above average defense - he'd already be up. I think the word you are looking for is "adequate" - when they are sure the D will be at least adequate, he'll be up.

 

[chawson]

Fine with Nunez if it costs a lottery ticket. Basically as productive as Lowrie but less brittle and can still play short.

If that same lottery ticket gets Liam Hendriks thrown in to offset the pricier Lowrie, maybe that's better?

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

If he could play above average defense - he'd already be up. I think the word you are looking for is "adequate" - when they are sure the D will be at least adequate, he'll be up.

All the reports I've seen on Dever's defense have been positive as far as I know. Usually its with a "down the road he may have to move to 1B when his body fills out" caveat. But for now It seems to be more than adequate.

 

[Snodgrass'Muff]

If he could play above average defense - he'd already be up. I think the word you are looking for is "adequate" - when they are sure the D will be at least adequate, he'll be up.

Alex Speier has been much higher on his defense this year (heard him talking about it on the BA podcast, I believe), and he gets praised plenty.

Sea Dogs manager Carlos Febles, who also coached former top Red Sox prospect Yoan Moncada last season, recently described Devers to the Boston Globe’s Alex Speier as way more of an advanced hitter than Moncada was at the same age. He even said Devers’ defense is “more refined” than Moncada’s and that he wouldn’t struggle at the hot corner in the major leagues.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/07/13/rafael-devers-red-sox-promotion/

And here's another link with some more detail on Febles' quotes.

“The other thing is his defense. I think [Devers] would not struggle defensively. I think he’s a more refined defender than Moncada,” added Febles. “I know that he has things to work on defensively, but he’s not far away. That’s a guy that comes in, works hard, doesn’t like to make errors. If you’re hitting groundballs to him, he doesn’t like to bobble balls. He gets mad. He doesn’t just want to be another player. This guy wants to be great. He has the tools to do so.”

http://www.weei.com/blogs/ryan-hannable/double-portland-manager-carlos-febles-rafael-devers-way-more-advanced-yoan

So, no, he's not a plus defender yet, but he could be and it sounds like Febles at least thinks he can be average or maybe a touch better right now. But hell, even if he's slightly below average defensively, the bat being average would still make him a big upgrade over what they've gotten this year and would prevent them from burning trade capital on finding another option that probably wouldn't be much, if at all better.

Edit: And potential "plus defender" is a term Speier threw out during the podcast I heard him on. I think it was BA's Red Sox top 10 podcast from early in the year. He's come a long way defensively, even if he still has plenty of room to improve.

 

[Van Everyman]

Forgive me if this has been said already but are we sure Brock Holt isn't the answer? I know 3B isn't his best position vis a vis the eye test. And that he wasn't very good so far this year. And that it would be nice to add some pop at the position of possible. But if he plays around his mean as a regular everyday player for a half season, shouldn't that be enough?

 

[JimD]

I'm not sure what from the trade details suggests that Dombrowski "let" anything happen. The Yankees made a more appealing offer. In order to beat it, the Sox would have had to build a package around Groome, which was a non-starter.

I'm in agreement - I was simply noting that DD's actions in not allowing himself to be held up by Rick Hahn were certainly contrary to Nightengale's characterization of the Sox as desperate.

 

[pokey_reese]

Forgive me if this has been said already but are we sure Brock Holt isn't the answer? I know 3B isn't his best position vis a vis the eye test. And that he wasn't very good so far this year. And that it would be nice to add some pop at the position of possible. But if he plays around his mean as a regular everyday player for a half season, shouldn't that be enough?

If your expectations for the position are a below average bat and below average glove, than sure. You kind of hit on the question of "if we have been SO bad at 3B to this point that replacement level is an upgrade, why not just go for replacement level?" Brock Holt might be the answer in that case, but it really comes down to how far below average you think the bat is going to be. If he can be the 98 wRC+ guy of 2014, then yeah, the job should be his. If it's closer to the 80ish wRC+ he's put up since, maybe not...

 

[shaggydog2000]

Forgive me if this has been said already but are we sure Brock Holt isn't the answer? I know 3B isn't his best position vis a vis the eye test. And that he wasn't very good so far this year. And that it would be nice to add some pop at the position of possible. But if he plays around his mean as a regular everyday player for a half season, shouldn't that be enough?

So bad defense and around a 90 wrc+? I guess it's better than the 57 wrc+ the Sox have gotten out of 3B so far, but not optimal.

 

[Rasputin]

So bad defense and around a 90 wrc+? I guess it's better than the 57 wrc+ the Sox have gotten out of 3B so far, but not optimal.

You have to balance what's optimal for the major league roster now with what's optimal for the major league roster long term and what's optimal long term is not to be optimal now.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Forgive me if this has been said already but are we sure Brock Holt isn't the answer? I know 3B isn't his best position vis a vis the eye test. And that he wasn't very good so far this year. And that it would be nice to add some pop at the position of possible. But if he plays around his mean as a regular everyday player for a half season, shouldn't that be enough?

Even if he is the answer, 3b is still the easiest position to upgrade.

 

[RedOctober3829]

What about Yunel Escobar? .751 OPS, owed only prorated portion of $7 million left on his expiring contract.

 

[nvalvo]

What about Yunel Escobar? .751 OPS, owed only prorated portion of $7 million left on his expiring contract.

Lowrie is probably more available, is a year younger, earns about the same, and is having a better year with both bat and glove.

edited to add: Lowrie is making $6.5m this year, but has a $6m team option for 2018 with a $1m buyout. We might actually want that option, for the role of dude who loses his starting role to Devers in May, and is probably a good sport about it because this is probably his last contract anyway and he's had a good career.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

What about Yunel Escobar? .751 OPS, owed only prorated portion of $7 million left on his expiring contract.

He has a history with Farrell, and it's not a good one. Oil and water.

 

[johnnywayback]

Lowrie is probably more available, is a year younger, earns about the same, and is having a better year with both bat and glove.

edited to add: Lowrie is making $6.5m this year, but has a $6m team option for 2018 with a $1m buyout. We might actually want that option, for the role of dude who loses his starting role to Devers in May, and is probably a good sport about it because this is probably his last contract anyway and he's had a good career.

And who offers some other value (being able to play another position or two like Lowrie, or being a lefty-masher like Freese, or being a valuable runner like Nunez).

 

[shaggydog2000]

You have to balance what's optimal for the major league roster now with what's optimal for the major league roster long term and what's optimal long term is not to be optimal now.

I certainly don't want them trading anything of significance to upgrade the spot. But mainly because I have a prospect crush on Devers and I want to see him there in late August. If they can pick up an Aaron Hill type for cheap, sure do that. I just want to remind people that Holt is a great super-sub, human spackle capable of filling in every spot except catcher or pitcher, and a good offensive player for that role. But as a starting 3B he is not a solution for more than a short interim while someone else gets ready or you make a trade. His short hot stretches do not hold up because he is overall a mediocre hitter, not because he wears down. Sample size catches up with him, not fatigue.

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

Fine with Nunez if it costs a lottery ticket. Basically as productive as Lowrie but less brittle and can still play short.

I'm OK with Nunez too, but both of the bolded bits are open to question. Particularly, saying he can still play short needs to be asterisked with the info that he has only played 82 innings there this year, and while the sample size is way too small to infer anything from the numbers, they're in line with his 2016. And when he was playing SS a lot, with the Yankees, he was pretty terrible. And younger. So I think "can still play short" should translate to "can probably still play short as badly as ever."

 

[edoug]

This guy seems pretty good.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/wednesday-mlb-scores-trade-rumors-news-updates-arenado-hits-three-homers/

Any chance we can convince Colorado that it's all downhill from here?

 

[soxhop411]

Red Sox discussions with SF involve Eduardo Nunez and reliever Hunter Strickland, per the Globe.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

So the Sox effectively trade Sandoval, salary free, to the Giants plus whatever Evans can wrangle out of Dombrowkski for Nunez and Strickland. Nice.

Nunez isn't going to cure the Sox power woes but he is a decent bat who will probably fare well getting out of AT&T.

Strickland, is scary. I know his ERA looks all great but most of his peripherals are trending in the wrong direction and his average velocity is down. And said fast-ball is straight and misses up. Bryce Harper goes from six to midnight anytime he sees Strickland pitching. In short, this guy is a gas-can placed atop a pile of dynamite and would be working with a short fuse in the AL East.

Yes to Nunez but tell the Giants they can take their recycled highly-combustibles and peddle them elsewhere.

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

So the Sox effectively trade Sandoval, salary free, to the Giants plus whatever Evans can wrangle out of Dombrowkski for Nunez and Strickland. Nice.

Nunez isn't going to cure the Sox power woes but he is a decent bat who will probably fare well getting out of AT&T.

Strickland, is scary. I know his ERA looks all great but most of his peripherals are trending in the wrong direction and his average velocity is down. And said fast-ball is straight and misses up. Bryce Harper goes from six to midnight anytime he sees Strickland pitching. In short, this guy is a gas-can placed atop a pile of dynamite and would be working with a short fuse in the AL East.

In short, yes to Nunez but tell the Giants they can take their recycled highly-combustibles and peddle them elsewhere.

Strickland is also walking guys at a much higher rate than prior years

 

[Sox and Rocks]

Yeah, while Nunez makes some sense, Strickland doesn't. Surely there are numerous better relievers available that won't cost a top prospect.

 

[Sox and Rocks]

This guy seems pretty good.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/wednesday-mlb-scores-trade-rumors-news-updates-arenado-hits-three-homers/

Any chance we can convince Colorado that it's all downhill from here?

An opening offer of Edrod, Bogarts, Devers and Groome might keep them from laughing and hanging up.

 

[Snodgrass'Muff]

Tweet from Speier.

Devers just went deep to left-center on a curveball away. The wind was blowing in. Just ... immense all-fields power for a 20-year-old.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Yahoo's Tim Brown goes there:

The Red Sox would have to overpay, whatever that means today. In this case it would mean helping to put the Rangers in a better position to compete with the Astros, and relatively soon.

Then, Beltre would have to agree to the trade, both because he has no-trade protection and the Rangers could only do right by a man who has become iconic in Arlington in a short time span. If he wants to stay, he stays. If the team must be reworked in the years Beltre will be finishing his career, then perhaps he’d prefer regular October work.

https://sports.yahoo.com/heres-red-sox-trade-adrian-beltre-130041599.html

 

[Cesar Crespo]

It would be something to trade for a guy with 2986 career hits. It seems like a huge disservice to the fans. Maybe fans aren't invested into 3000 hits as they used to be.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Beltre say he would go if Texas wanted to go in that direction and I'd take him in a heartbeat. Teach Devers a new position or accept the fact that you have a new young valuable trade chip to work with in him.

 

[Rasputin]

Beltre say he would go if Texas wanted to go in that direction and I'd take him in a heartbeat. Teach Devers a new position or accept the fact that you have a new young valuable trade chip to work with in him.

Cot's says Beltre is a free agent after 2018 so there's no need to teach Devers a new position. Mind you, getting Beltre might take Devers and I'm not sure how I feel about that.

 

[Stan Papi Was Framed]

Cot's says Beltre is a free agent after 2018 so there's no need to teach Devers a new position. Mind you, getting Beltre might take Devers and I'm not sure how I feel about that.

if price for Beltre would be Devers, I'm sure Sox answer would be "no"

 

[Rasputin]

if price for Beltre would be Devers, I'm sure Sox answer would be "no"

I suspect you are correct. On the other hand, if you add Beltre to this team, it's probably the best team in the AL going forward with a rotation and bullpen that nobody wants to face.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Given contract and age, I wouldn't think Beltre would cost Devers. I don't know what Texas's system is like, but a Chavis or Travis seems like a fit, plus a couple of other pieces

 

[Snodgrass'Muff]

Given contract and age, I wouldn't think Beltre would cost Devers. I don't know what Texas's system is like, but a Chavis or Travis seems like a fit, plus a couple of other pieces

He'd put them over the threshold this year and make it really hard to get back under next year, so unless they are kicking in good enough prospects for Texas to eat at least half the money, or you think the Sox know they won't be in on any high end free agents the next two years, Beltre doesn't make sense as a target. They're not putting themselves in a position to lose draft picks to grab the last 1.5 seasons of control of a 38 year old Adrian Beltre. Yes, he's still really good, but at his age he could fall off a cliff at any time. The injury issues this year could be the first step there, actually.

 

[E5 Yaz]

He'd put them over the threshold this year and make it really hard to get back under next year, so unless they are kicking in good enough prospects for Texas to eat at least half the money, or you think the Sox know they won't be in on any high end free agents the next two years, Beltre doesn't make sense as a target. They're not putting themselves in a position to lose draft picks to grab the last 1.5 seasons of control of a 38 year old Adrian Beltre. Yes, he's still really good, but at his age he could fall off a cliff at any time. The injury issues this year could be the first step there, actually.

Granted, but I was so tired of reading some of the other ideas floated in this thread that I thought I'd use Brown's column as a leavening agent

 

[edoug]

Beltre is within 13 hits of 3000. Has anybody ever been traded when they were so close to a milestone?

 

[Byrdbrain]

Would he put them over this year? Per COTs the Sox are roughly $12M under and Beltre is owed about $8M for the rest of this year.
Obviously adding $18M next year makes getting under then much harder.

As a note I don't think they are getting Beltre(partly because of what edoug says) but I don't think the Sox would need the Rangers to pick anything up.

 

[Snodgrass'Muff]

Would he put them over this year? Per COTs the Sox are roughly $12M under and Beltre is owed about $8M for the rest of this year.
Obviously adding $18M next year makes getting under then much harder.

As a note I don't think they are getting Beltre(partly because of what edoug says) but I don't think the Sox would need the Rangers to pick anything up.

Fair. I hadn't pro-rated the contract this year. I think the impact on next year is probably still enough that this isn't likely, though. And you seem to agree, so I guess I'm done here.

 

[MikeM]

Would he put them over this year? Per COTs the Sox are roughly $12M under and Beltre is owed about $8M for the rest of this year.
Obviously adding $18M next year makes getting under then much harder.

As a note I don't think they are getting Beltre(partly because of what edoug says) but I don't think the Sox would need the Rangers to pick anything up.

COTs doesn't appear totally accurate though in terms on accounting for everything. Namely guys on the bottom who've been on the 25 man and have nothing showing in their salary box.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Fair. I hadn't pro-rated the contract this year. I think the impact on next year is probably still enough that this isn't like, though. And you seem to agree, so I guess I'm done here.

They are at $129 million for 2018 before any arbitration figures for eligible players and filling Moreland/Young/Abad/Holt roster spots. Adding Beltre for '18 would squeeze them pretty tightly considering Betts/Bogaerts/Bradley/Pomeranz/Kelly figure to get pretty good raises and in some cases(Betts) they might want to extend for big money.

 

[Snodgrass'Muff]

COTs doesn't appear totally accurate though in terms on accounting for everything. Namely guys on the bottom who've been on the 25 man and have nothing showing in their salary box.

They may be rolled up into the 40 man figure.

 

[benhogan]

Sell high then. Subsidize the rest of his contract, package him with a #20-30 prospect and fly him to San Fran. Maybe they can rejuvenate him.

With nothing else to root for this season, Pac Bell can nostalgically go back to wearing their Panda hats/mittens this summer.

We'll gladly take half a season of Eduardo Nunez in exchange.

From 6/15

Not far from what transpired. A fully subsidized Panda ends up with San Fran (for the hat sales). Shaun Anderson, #17 on Soxprospects.com + Santos, goes to SF for Nunez.

Nunez proceeds to light it up.

 

[terrynever]

Now playing for Philly, Will Middlebrooks broke a tibia and injured an ankle yesterday in a collision. Says he might be done.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/will-middlebrooks-fearless-season-may-have-ended-before-it-started-20180225.html

 

[Harry Hooper]

Now playing for Philly, Will Middlebrooks broke a tibia and injured an ankle yesterday in a collision. Says he might be done.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/will-middlebrooks-fearless-season-may-have-ended-before-it-started-20180225.html

Last quotation indicates he hasn't given up yet:

“I think I’ll be fine,” Middlebrooks said. “If it takes two months, if it takes four or five months, I don’t know how long it will take. I’m not counting myself out. I plan on playing this year.”

I am pretty sure I don't want to see a replay of the collision.