What does 2023 look like?

Red(s)HawksFan

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Refsnyder occupying a roster for small money presumably (hopefully) means not a smaller payroll, but more money to spend on other parts of the team.
Exactly. If he hits like he did this season, he's a really strong bench player who can play anywhere in the outfield and in combination with Kike and Arroyo, gives them a good deal of flexibility when playing against LHP.
 

chawson

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Exactly. If he hits like he did this season, he's a really strong bench player who can play anywhere in the outfield and in combination with Kike and Arroyo, gives them a good deal of flexibility when playing against LHP.
Surprisingly playable defensive outfielder too. He graded as an average center fielder defensively (small sample), which is really useful if his bat holds.

For me, the optimism about Ref's bat is entirely about his line drive rate. It's very high! That's more valuable in a league with a heavier baseball (if that should remain the case next year), and I'm less worried about his high 2022 BABIP (.394) as a result.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Only concern with holding on to Hosmer is it locks up a roster spot and potentially makes it more difficult to acquire someone who would be a better fit to a back up 1b (although I guess that could be Dalbec). Flipping Hosmer for a player that better fits the roster seems ideal for all sides.
I think that it's a good idea to keep him around at least for the first few months. If Casas pulls a Dalbec and can't hit, it would be nice to have a backup plan.

A low-cost DH platoon w Hosmer?
Good lord, I hope we can do better than this. Yikes.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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I have lots of doubt. I think it is smart for the Sox to act like they don't need another starter, but, I think it is their top need (which will strengthen the bullpen by allowing Whitlock and Houck to pitch in relief and potentially make spot starts as needed).
I've been vocally on record as saying making Whitlock a starter would be a catastrophic error, but I suppose that's noise in the wind now.

But if he gets hurt in the rotation again, their options to get another starter in the middle of the season will likely be pretty unappealing.
 

lexrageorge

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I've been vocally on record as saying making Whitlock a starter would be a catastrophic error, but I suppose that's noise in the wind now.

But if he gets hurt in the rotation again, their options to get another starter in the middle of the season will likely be pretty unappealing.
He has the stuff of a starter. There is nothing that says his body cannot handle being a starter. He had a brief stint in the IL last year, but that had nothing to do with him being a starter. The better pitchers will always be made into starters; just the way it is and will likely remain.
 

chrisfont9

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If he spends a full year really giving it a go as a starter and his stuff doesn't play, then at least you know what to do. I wouldn't assume anything about his body not holding up apart from the usual elbow stuff. A past TJ is a risk but his hip inflammation this year doesn't sound like a sign of chronic injury risk.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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He has the stuff of a starter. There is nothing that says his body cannot handle being a starter. He had a brief stint in the IL last year, but that had nothing to do with him being a starter. The better pitchers will always be made into starters; just the way it is and will likely remain.
He was less effective as a starter, he got hurt as a starter last year and got hurt as a starter in the minors as well.

I’ve said more than enough on this topic for a lifetime so I won’t bore anyone. I hope they have a contingency plan.
 

grimshaw

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I think they'll still acquire another quality starter regardless of whether they think Whitlock can stick in the rotation or not.
With 4 or 5 innings being the new normal for starters, they need multiple inning arms.
 

JBJ_HOF

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He was less effective as a starter, he got hurt as a starter last year and got hurt as a starter in the minors as well.
I mean, he got hurt sliding into first base covering. When he was starting he was hurt and yet still put up eye opening control and strikeouts numbers for a starting pitcher.
 

scottyno

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I know it's been discussed here before, but Whitlock's numbers on 0-2 days rest really aren't that great, his numbers as a reliever with 3+ days rest are phenomenal.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Whitlock should be a starter, especially if his usage in the pen is going to be limited by him needing so much time off. I think it’s too difficult to use him effectively out of the pen given the restrictions. If those restrictions are going to be eased a bit, then maybe that changes but as of now I think he deserves a shot in the rotation.

I am not sure that his numbers based on days of rest mean much, though, it’s pretty small samples. His entire relief career is only 68 games.
 

JM3

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Enmanuel Valdez was added to the 40-man which currently has 37 players:

Pitchers (19): Matt Barnes, Brayan Bello, Ryan Brasier, Kutter Crawford, Franklin German, Darwinzon Hernandez, Tanner Houck, Zack Kelly, Bryan Mata, Kaleb Ort, James Paxton, Nick Pivetta, Jake Reed, Chris Sale, John Schreiber, Connor Seabold, Josh Taylor, Garrett Whitlock, Josh Winckowski.

Catchers (4): Caleb Hamilton, Ronaldo Hernández, Reese McGuire, Connor Wong

Infielders (7): Triston Casas, Yu Chang, Bobby Dalbec, Rafael Devers, Jeter Downs, Eric Hosmer, Trevor Story

Outfielders (4): Franchy Cordero, Jarren Duran, Rob Refsnyder, Alex Verdugo

Infielder/Outfielders (3): Christian Arroyo, Kiké Hernández, Enmanuel Valdez

https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2022/11/red-sox-roster-moves-enmanuel-valdez-selected-tommy-pham-becomes-free-agent-40-man-at-37.html
 

jon abbey

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Moved from the rotation thread....

Bolded isn't the only option. Because of his low cost to the Red Sox, if they don't want/need him, they can just DFA him. Which gives the Sox a bit of leverage re: Hosmer's NTC. "You can accept this trade or we'll DFA you and you can land with whoever picks you up."
I can't see Hosmer breaking camp with the Sox unless Casas gets hurt. He doesn't hit enough to be a DH and Sox don't need another LH first baseman.
Kind of surprised no one has brought this up before (I know we talked about it a bit in August) but I think Hosmer is going to be on the BOS roster at least for a while in part to tutor Casas, as they have trained together and went to the same high school. NY did this down the stretch this year with Marwin Gonzalez and Oswaldo Cabrera, Marwin did not deserve a roster spot based on his baseball skills, but both are Venezuelan utility men who can play almost everywhere, and I think they kept Marwin on the team to tutor Cabrera.

https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2022/09/triston-casas-and-eric-hosmer-went-to-same-high-school-trained-together-are-now-red-sox-teammates-it-was-meant-to-be.html
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Tutor him? Seems like a waste of a roster spot. A weak hitting LH 1b (who can’t play any other position) to back up a LH 1b just doesn’t really make any sense, especially since Casas is good defensively. I struggle to see when Hosmer would play. Who would he PH for? I guess he could theoretically be part of a DH platoon with Dalbec, but for a team with oodles of money to spend…I struggle to understand the point. Casas is ready, he doesn’t need a caddy.
 

jon abbey

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Tutor him? Seems like a waste of a roster spot. A weak hitting LH 1b (who can’t play any other position) to back up a LH 1b just doesn’t really make any sense, especially since Casas is good defensively. I struggle to see when Hosmer would play. Who would he PH for? I guess he could theoretically be part of a DH platoon with Dalbec, but for a team with oodles of money to spend…I struggle to understand the point. Casas is ready, he doesn’t need a caddy.
We'll see, but if Hosmer sticks around and people question why, there is one reason. Again, I would think this would be unlikely except NY just did the same thing down the stretch this year.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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We'll see, but if Hosmer sticks around and people question why, there is one reason. Again, I would think this would be unlikely except NY just did the same thing down the stretch this year.
But Marwin could play multiple positions, at least. Hosmer can really only play first.
 

jon abbey

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But Marwin could play multiple positions, at least.
He certainly was good at standing in many places on the field and not embarrassing himself, but unfortunately for NY, one of those places was not the batter's box. From July 8-October 1 (games 84-157), he went an almost impossible 5 for 71, a .070 BA and a .338 OPS. Cabrera came up on August 17 and showed he belonged very quickly, I am certain Marwin was kept around almost entirely for this specific relationship, also maybe additional clubhouse stuff (there is so much we don't know but have to guess at, for instance I was confused for years how the mediocre Luis Cessa survived in the NY bullpen with no options left but it turned out everyone loved him, like Wandy now, except Wandy is actually good at his job).

Let me try another angle on this: why do people think Chaim traded for Hosmer in the first place? To me it made decidedly more sense once I learned about the Hosmer/Casas prior relationship.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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I have no idea why he traded for him. I’m assuming because he was cheap and they needed someone to play first for the last few months of a lost season. I don’t really see why Casas needs a caddy, that a player from his HS is in the league seems like a weird oddity. Who knows. I guess they could keep him but when exactly do you think Hosmer would play? If the Sox are trying to contend, a backup 1b who can actually hit RH seems like a better fit. I guess you could go with Wong / McGuire, Hosmer, Arroyo, and Refsnyder? But you are kind of stuck with no good options against tough LH. Can really only fit Dalbec on the roster if you go to 12 pitchers which seems like blasphemy.

I dunno, just don’t see how Hosmer fits at all.
 

chawson

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Let me try another angle on this: why do people think Chaim traded for Hosmer in the first place? To me it made decidedly more sense once I learned about the Hosmer/Casas prior relationship.
I’ll bite on this. I think Bloom thought there was a good chance Hosmer could put up a Green Monster-aided .800 OPS for a couple months, making him look like a more attractive piece for a trade (at minimum salary). It was only 50 PA, but Hosmer’s time in Boston featured the lowest ground ball rate and lowest pull rate of his career, and a bit of a resurgent hard hit rate.

If there’s an argument for Hosmer in Boston at all, it’s that he’s helped by that wall. Two months of him making that trick work would have rebuilt his value pretty well. I don’t think Bloom trades no matter what, but he’s a bad fit at DH and it’d be a missed opportunity to not trade him while he still appears to other teams like a league average first baseman.
 

buttons

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Hosmer I believe has a strong no trade clause
and at the minimum salary we are obligated to
psy why would we not want to keep him.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Hosmer I believe has a strong no trade clause
and at the minimum salary we are obligated to
psy why would we not want to keep him.
Petegine has already pointed out why they don't keep him: his roster spot could be better used with a more versatile and less redundant player. I've been saying since they acquired him that he'll likely stick around at least into spring training next season, but if Casas is ready to go for Opening Day, Hosmer will be gone. I think that is still the most likely play for Bloom. He can be in Ft Myers and do the mentor thing with Casas, and then within a couple weeks of Opening Day, he can be moved to a team that finds itself in need of a 1B due to injury or underperformance or something. Hosmer may simply have more trade value as an emergency fill-in in March than as a plan A type acquisition in December/January. And if there are no takers, outright release isn't off the table.
 

zougwa

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Hosmer could be an interesting trade chip to some other team if their original 1B plan blows out a knee or something in Spring Training. I doubt the NTC really holds things up if his choice is between a starting gig and a bench tutor role here.
 

Alex Cole's Rec Specs

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Hosmer could be an interesting trade chip to some other team if their original 1B plan blows out a knee or something in Spring Training. I doubt the NTC really holds things up if his choice is between a starting gig and a bench tutor role here.
The Rays just traded their starting 1B Ji-Man Choi to the Pirates to clear some salary. Hosmer at the league minimum seems like a perfect fit for Tampa Bay, and I believe he lives in Florida in the offseason; trading him to a contender close to home where he could start seems like a good way to get around the NTC.
 

Bread of Yaz

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The Rays just traded their starting 1B Ji-Man Choi to the Pirates to clear some salary. Hosmer at the league minimum seems like a perfect fit for Tampa Bay, and I believe he lives in Florida in the offseason; trading him to a contender close to home where he could start seems like a good way to get around the NTC.
Rays still have Yandy Diaz, Isaac Paredes and Harold Ramirez to cover first, they all play other positions to some degree, and the Rays highly value positional flexibility, so Hosmer may not be the best fit for them.
 

Super Nomario

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Tutor him? Seems like a waste of a roster spot. A weak hitting LH 1b (who can’t play any other position) to back up a LH 1b just doesn’t really make any sense, especially since Casas is good defensively. I struggle to see when Hosmer would play. Who would he PH for? I guess he could theoretically be part of a DH platoon with Dalbec, but for a team with oodles of money to spend…I struggle to understand the point. Casas is ready, he doesn’t need a caddy.
I could see it making sense, or not, depending on what they do elsewhere. If they spend at RF, SS, and C, they might decide to go cheap at DH. Or if they decide to go cheap at C and / or SS, they might have a glove-first player that needs to be pinch hit for regularly. Certainly there are other scenarios where Hosmer does not have a place.
 

chrisfont9

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I’ll bite on this. I think Bloom thought there was a good chance Hosmer could put up a Green Monster-aided .800 OPS for a couple months, making him look like a more attractive piece for a trade (at minimum salary). It was only 50 PA, but Hosmer’s time in Boston featured the lowest ground ball rate and lowest pull rate of his career, and a bit of a resurgent hard hit rate.

If there’s an argument for Hosmer in Boston at all, it’s that he’s helped by that wall. Two months of him making that trick work would have rebuilt his value pretty well. I don’t think Bloom trades no matter what, but he’s a bad fit at DH and it’d be a missed opportunity to not trade him while he still appears to other teams like a league average first baseman.
He's been about a 108 OPS+ guy for the last couple years, so it's not like Hosmer is garbage. With a decent glove and experience to impart on Casas, he has some possible value. Also he's a reverse split, so you actually DO want him in there vs lefties. Whether it will work, I don't know, but it's hardly insane to think of them in a job share.
 

chawson

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He's been about a 108 OPS+ guy for the last couple years, so it's not like Hosmer is garbage. With a decent glove and experience to impart on Casas, he has some possible value. Also he's a reverse split, so you actually DO want him in there vs lefties. Whether it will work, I don't know, but it's hardly insane to think of them in a job share.
Hosmer vs. LHP over '21-22: .311 expected wOBA
Hosmer vs. RHP over '21-22: .324 expected wOBA

Like a lot of other people who've posted, I think we have better uses for a roster spot than a short-side platoon who hits lefties about as well as Christian Vazquez hits everyone.
 

dhappy42

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How sure are we that Casas is the starting first baseman next year? He looked the part in his 27 games up, but didn’t exactly mash — 197/358/408.
 

Green Monster

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How sure are we that Casas is the starting first baseman next year? He looked the part in his 27 games up, but didn’t exactly mash — 197/358/408.
I was impressed with his general approach at the plate. Showed a disciplined approach, but he did strikeout more than I was lead to expect. Seemed to handle himself well defensively. I would assume he is the preferred option at 1B at this point. However, he missed extended time in AAA due to injury and has now been shut-down in fall ball. .... Hopefully he is not injury prone
 

dhappy42

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I was impressed with his general approach at the plate. Showed a disciplined approach, but he did strikeout more than I was lead to expect. Seemed to handle himself well defensively. I would assume he is the preferred option at 1B at this point. However, he missed extended time in AAA due to injury and has now been shut-down in fall ball. .... Hopefully he is not injury prone
I was impressed too. I think he’s the Red Sox first baseman of the future, but I’m not certain that future starts on opening day. It makes sense to keep Hosmer on the roster, at least for a while.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Casas 766 ops in his first taste of big league action is quite a bit better than you’d expect from Hosmer, though. He looked ready to me. There’s no upside with Hosmer. It’s cool that he’s being paid the minimum, but there’s a reason.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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How sure are we that Casas is the starting first baseman next year? He looked the part in his 27 games up, but didn’t exactly mash — 197/358/408.
766 OPS is better than Hosmer has been the last two years (.725 in '21-22 combined). That OBP relative to his batting average is reason to be really excited about him, IMO. If he can maintain that kind of gap while raising his average even 40 points, he'll be a very productive piece in the order.
 

Dewey'sCannon

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With all the focus (understandably) on Xander, Raffy and the starting rotation, there's hasn't been much discussion about what to do about the OF, or other ways to improve the offense other than finding someone better than Hosmer.

A couple of thoughts while looking at the FA lists:

- Haniger for the OF? He was hurt a lot last year, but still looks like a good RH power bat, which we could use in the OF (or DH). MLBTR projects 3/39, which seems reasonable.

- Evan Longoria for 1B platoon w/Casas and DH. Has also been hurt, but could come cheap and be a valuable RH platoon/bench piece. Probably a better fit than Hosmer, although he would cost more than the minimum.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Jose Abreu seems like the guy they need. Can Dh bur also play 1b. Hits for a ton of power, but is 35 and probably won’t require more than a 3 year deal. Assuming the conventional wisdom is he just stays in Chicago?

Conforto is probably the guy I’d be looking at for RF. Seems like he’s looking for a two year deal with an opt out.
 

moondog80

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Jose Abreu seems like the guy they need. Can Dh bur also play 1b. Hits for a ton of power, but is 35 and probably won’t require more than a 3 year deal. Assuming the conventional wisdom is he just stays in Chicago?

Conforto is probably the guy I’d be looking at for RF. Seems like he’s looking for a two year deal with an opt out.
Chicago has a couple of bad glove guys in Eloy Jiminez and Andrew Vaughn that they'd probably like to occupy DH and 1B. So I can see Abreu. Conforto too, but for LF or DH. Both guys should be willing to sign short term deals.
 

JM3

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So they're saying there's no chance...

Report: Abreu's chances to return to White Sox are 'zero'
Or are they?

"The Cubs will soon be in discussions with representatives for first baseman Jose Abreu, whose chances of returning to the White Sox are close to zero, according to multiple sources," 670 the Score's Bruce Levine wrote on Wednesday.
 

Jack Rabbit Slim

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How about Brantley splitting time between LF and DH? The shoulder injury is a little concerning but he has been a consistently good bat. His patience/OBP would look great at the top of the order.