Wander Franco Is In Trouble (Grooming/Pedo Warning)

SemperFidelisSox

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He has a wife. He has two sons. He has millions. He has everything a man could possibly want in life, and all of it at just 22 years old. Hall of Fame to Hall of Stupid.
 

joe dokes

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Plus we have to consider the timeline of when it happened. Nothing is an excuse for what he did. but it's a different thought process.
But yeas, sometimes it is about control and certain sick instincts rather than attraction.
You're right. We dont know. The power/control dynamic might not be a precise fit here.
And I really didn't mean to open up a can of worms in my response to @Yaz4Ever. I think I'm just pre-emptively pissed at what I suspect will be numerous stories of "what [*he*] could have been..."
 

Rovin Romine

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I think I'm just pre-emptively pissed at what I suspect will be numerous stories of "what [*he*] could have been..."
I wonder if we'll see a lot of those, absent a very-close-in-age situation (which the rumors suggest are unlikely.)

But we might. That drunken coked-up dickhead Jose Fernandez still gets the "tragedy" treatment from some quarters, even after killing two of his friends: https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/950933/the-tribute-to-jose-fernandez-outside-of-marlins-park-has-been-removed-and-replaced-with-a-plaque-not-a-statue
 

Marciano490

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I wonder if we'll see a lot of those, absent a very-close-in-age situation (which the rumors suggest are unlikely.)

But we might. That drunken coked-up dickhead Jose Fernandez still gets the "tragedy" treatment from some quarters, even after killing two of his friends: https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/950933/the-tribute-to-jose-fernandez-outside-of-marlins-park-has-been-removed-and-replaced-with-a-plaque-not-a-statue
I mean, there’s a lot more willfulness in fucking minors than there is in doing some blow and crashing a boat. I’ll let you guess what this upright citizen can empathize with a lot more.
 

Ale Xander

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I mean, there’s a lot more willfulness in fucking minors than there is in doing some blow and crashing a boat. I’ll let you guess what this upright citizen can empathize with a lot more.
“Crashing a boat” is doing a lot of work here

He killed two people, dude.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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I wonder if we'll see a lot of those, absent a very-close-in-age situation (which the rumors suggest are unlikely.)

But we might. That drunken coked-up dickhead Jose Fernandez still gets the "tragedy" treatment from some quarters, even after killing two of his friends: https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/950933/the-tribute-to-jose-fernandez-outside-of-marlins-park-has-been-removed-and-replaced-with-a-plaque-not-a-statue
Yeah, I'm sure his buddies were stone cold sober.

I'm all aboard the "fuck Wander" train, but where are we at with accusations right now?

The first one we're all fairly comfortable with. Is there just a second one, or is there multiple? Do we know who the second person is? What the allegations are?

I'm not trying to defend him, just trying to understand what is actually out there right now.
 

Marciano490

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“Crashing a boat” is doing a lot of work here

He killed two people, dude.
Yeah the outcome was terrible and operating cars or boats while intoxicated is shitty and something I don’t think I’d do now, but at 23 or however old he was…. I can’t get down on a guy for doing something I did just because I got luckier than he did.

On the other hand, if Wander was hooking up with multiple underage girls….

I judge more on intent than outcome, but reasonable legal scholars differ.
 

LogansDad

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“Crashing a boat” is doing a lot of work here

He killed two people, dude.
Two people who were adults, knew what he was doing, and went along for the ride anyway.

If you can't see the difference between that and what Wander is being accused of, well, I don't really know what to tell you, man.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Two people who were adults, knew what he was doing, and went along for the ride anyway.

If you can't see the difference between that and what Wander is being accused of, well, I don't really know what to tell you, man.
A group of friends coked up and drunk, doing something stupid? If this doesn't ring true to you, I question how much you enjoyed your youth.
 

Myt1

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I mean, there’s a lot more willfulness in fucking minors than there is in doing some blow and crashing a boat. I’ll let you guess what this upright citizen can empathize with a lot more.
Yeah, I'm sure his buddies were stone cold sober.

I'm all aboard the "fuck Wander" train, but where are we at with accusations right now?

The first one we're all fairly comfortable with. Is there just a second one, or is there multiple? Do we know who the second person is? What the allegations are?

I'm not trying to defend him, just trying to understand what is actually out there right now.
Yeah the outcome was terrible and operating cars or boats while intoxicated is shitty and something I don’t think I’d do now, but at 23 or however old he was…. I can’t get down on a guy for doing something I did just because I got luckier than he did.

On the other hand, if Wander was hooking up with multiple underage girls….

I judge more on intent than outcome, but reasonable legal scholars differ.
Two people who were adults, knew what he was doing, and went along for the ride anyway.

If you can't see the difference between that and what Wander is being accused of, well, I don't really know what to tell you, man.
A group of friends coked up and drunk, doing something stupid? If this doesn't ring true to you, I question how much you enjoyed your youth.
Our collective misspent youths notwithstanding, I think it’s pretty clear that @Rovin Romine and @Ale Xander aren’t equating the two situations, because “Example of homicidal asshole lionized as a tragic wasted talent,” doesn’t really require them to.
 

richgedman'sghost

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Two people who were adults, knew what he was doing, and went along for the ride anyway.

If you can't see the difference between that and what Wander is being accused of, well, I don't really know what to tell you, man.
I'd feel a lot more sorry for Jose Fernandez's passengers if he was the Captain of a Staten Island ferry or something and the passengers were just regular commuters who had no control of the situation. In reality though, Jose's friends were adults who were stoned as well and went along with the boat ride. They all had agency of the situation.
The Wander Franco situation is completely different. If what is rumored is true then his victims did not have control or agency of the situation. Hopefully this did not have to be explained.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Franco immediately denied the allegations in an Instagram post.

There’s not enough reliable information about this for me to form an opinion either way. But MLB doing the right thing, suspending Franco pending investigation, and Franco accepting that suspension isn’t evidence that he’s guilty.
The deafening silence from the MLBPA sure seems worth noting here.
 

Rovin Romine

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I'd feel a lot more sorry for Jose Fernandez's passengers if he was the Captain of a Staten Island ferry or something and the passengers were just regular commuters who had no control of the situation. In reality though, Jose's friends were adults who were stoned as well and went along with the boat ride. They all had agency of the situation.
The Wander Franco situation is completely different. If what is rumored is true then his victims did not have control or agency of the situation. Hopefully this did not have to be explained.
As noted before your post, I wasn't comparing the severity of the two situations.

As a side note on Fernandez: if you had been in the boat, trying to keep an eye on your friend so they wouldn't be alone, I can't imagine your colleagues, friends, or loved ones lead with: "Richgedman'sghost was an adult who had agency. Therefore it's a tragedy, not that he died, but that the drunk who killed him had a baseball career cut short." (Because, well. . .you've just never seemed that much of an asshole to me. ;) )

And, FWIW, Fernandez had a BAL of 0.147 (far above Florida's legal limit of 0.08), as well as cocaine in his system. Both the friends had BAL's below the legal limit. Only one had any indication of any other drug in their system, and that (IIRC) was a significantly lower amount cocaine than Fernandez.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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The first one we're all fairly comfortable with. Is there just a second one, or is there multiple? Do we know who the second person is? What the allegations are?

I'm not trying to defend him, just trying to understand what is actually out there right now.
As far as I can tell, we have some pictures on the internet from one girl and a report that another girl has filed a complaint (it's my understanding that this complaint was filed prior to the pictures being posted).

That's about it.

One thing I am reading for the first from this article:

However, criminal matters in the [DR] are more in line to civil cases, where the person charged with the crime provides payment to the victim's family, who then tell law enforcement if they are satisfied and whether they want to pursue criminal charges.
 

Rovin Romine

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As far as I can tell, we have some pictures on the internet from one girl and a report that another girl has filed a complaint (it's my understanding that this complaint was filed prior to the pictures being posted).

That's about it.

One thing I am reading for the first from this article:

However, criminal matters in the [DR] are more in line to civil cases, where the person charged with the crime provides payment to the victim's family, who then tell law enforcement if they are satisfied and whether they want to pursue criminal charges.
While I'm sure the victim's family might have some input, it's probably one factor among many MLB would use when considering sanctions.

Wild guesses: Franco is probably on Admin leave while the investigation develops. If, before the end of the season, the investigation concludes with no charges filed, MLB will likely suspend anyway - likely enough to keep him out of post-season play. If charges are filed, the Admin leave will continue for as long as it takes.

So I'm guessing the earliest return for him is sometime early in 2024? But that would be in a "no charges" scenario.
 

Ale Xander

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Won’t the MLBPA be heavily opposed if investigation concludes and there are no charges filed and he still can’t play?

Obviously DR law applies if the act was in DR but if they don’t press charges, why should he still be suspended if FL laws allow the act if the older person is 23 or under? (Provided the victim is 16+)

Im assuming DR presses charges if she’s 14 or something but what if they decline because she’s 16or 17 (and therefore still Legal under FL R&J law)
Or what if they can’t prove sexual contact and therefore don’t press charges. Why would he still be suspended?
 

NDame616

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Won’t the MLBPA be heavily opposed if investigation concludes and there are no charges filed and he still can’t play?

Obviously DR law applies if the act was in DR but if they don’t press charges, why should he still be suspended if FL laws allow the act if the older person is 23 or under? (Provided the victim is 16+)

Im assuming DR presses charges if she’s 14 or something but what if they decline because she’s 16or 17 (and therefore still Legal under FL R&J law)
Or what if they can’t prove sexual contact and therefore don’t press charges. Why would he still be suspended?
How offended were they when charges against Bauer were dropped and he was essentially black balled from the league?

Sleeping dogs lay or something.....
 

Ale Xander

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How offended were they when charges against Bauer were dropped and he was essentially black balled from the league?

Sleeping dogs lay or something.....
Brought and dropped is different from never been brought at all. Plus there was way more smoke (and actual evidence in general, and actual evidence of violence and non-consensual acts [in the layman term] ) in the Bauer case.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Brought and dropped is different from never been brought at all. Plus there was way more smoke (and actual evidence in general, and actual evidence of violence and non-consensual acts [in the layman term] ) in the Bauer case.
MLB conducted it's own investigation too, didn't it? Bauer wasn't suspended because the police charged him with a crime (whether charges were dropped or not). He was suspended because MLB investigators concluded he'd done something worth being suspended over. I'm sure the same thing could happen if Franco escapes criminal prosecution but there's still evidence of his having done something untoward.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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MLB conducted it's own investigation too, didn't it? Bauer wasn't suspended because the police charged him with a crime (whether charges were dropped or not). He was suspended because MLB investigators concluded he'd done something worth being suspended over. I'm sure the same thing could happen if Franco escapes criminal prosecution but there's still evidence of his having done something untoward.
Likely yes. Also, there were three sets of accusations of sexual violence in Bauer's case that MLB investigated (one wasn't made public until after the investigation). https://www.latimes.com/sports/dodgers/story/2022-04-29/trevor-bauer-accused-sexual-assault-third-woman
 

NDame616

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Brought and dropped is different from never been brought at all. Plus there was way more smoke (and actual evidence in general, and actual evidence of violence and non-consensual acts [in the layman term] ) in the Bauer case.
We also have no idea what evidence will come up from the Franco case...
 

pdaj

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I've been trying to follow this story as an MLB fan, as well as a fantasy baseball participant who happens to roster Wander in his (freakin') dynasty league, but with such little/vague information available, it's been challenging to formulate an opinion. Over the last week or so, details on any progress have been non-existent.
 

pdaj

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There's still not much in terms of details -- timeframe, age, nature of the relationship, evidence, etc. Was the accuser 17 at the time when Wander was 18 or 19, or did this relationship occur with the minor recently? Some folks appear comfortable equating accusations with guilt (I've certainly been guilty of this in the past), but I'm trying to avoid that here, even amidst the keyboard virtue-signalers.

However, I'm sure that my patience will be tested if the accusations grow further, as they did with Watson.
 

ThePrideofShiner

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There's still not much in terms of details -- timeframe, age, nature of the relationship, evidence, etc. Was the accuser 17 at the time when Wander was 18 or 19, or did this relationship occur with the minor recently? Some folks appear comfortable equating accusations with guilt (I've certainly been guilty of this in the past), but I'm trying to avoid that here, even amidst the keyboard virtue-signalers.

However, I'm sure that my patience will be tested if the accusations grow further, as they did with Watson.
I mean, you came into a thread where an adult is credibly accused of having relationships with underage girls and are attacking posters for "keyboard virtue-signaling" while complaining this hurts your fantasy team. I'm not sure who you think you are making look bad, but rest assured it is just yourself.
 

pdaj

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I mean, you came into a thread where an adult is credibly accused of having relationships with underage girls and are attacking posters for "keyboard virtue-signaling" while complaining this hurts your fantasy team. I'm not sure who you think you are making look bad, but rest assured it is just yourself.
Sorry, but this is a classic strawman tactic. Please re-read my original post. I stated that I was following the story as a result of being a general MLB fan and having rostered Wander in fantasy, not to "complain" about his unavailability. This doesn't change the fact that, as of today, details/evidence remain vague and incomplete, which makes it difficult to formulate an opinion on potential guilt.
 

Mr. Stinky Esq.

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I've been trying to follow this story as an MLB fan, as well as a fantasy baseball participant who happens to roster Wander in his (freakin') dynasty league, but with such little/vague information available, it's been challenging to formulate an opinion. Over the last week or so, details on any progress have been non-existent.
There's still not much in terms of details -- timeframe, age, nature of the relationship, evidence, etc. Was the accuser 17 at the time when Wander was 18 or 19, or did this relationship occur with the minor recently? Some folks appear comfortable equating accusations with guilt (I've certainly been guilty of this in the past), but I'm trying to avoid that here, even amidst the keyboard virtue-signalers.

However, I'm sure that my patience will be tested if the accusations grow further, as they did with Watson.
You're talking about sports. Not even sports. Fantasy sports. The word fantasy is in the name. I would think that would be sufficient to tell you how serious you should take it relative to the real world.

And "we haven't seen much in terms of details" ≠ "there's not much in terms of details". The allegations are along the lines of child abuse / child sexual assault. There's a criminal investigation. There's an MLB investigation. They don't update fantasy managers in real time, but hey, Thoughts and Prayers™ to your team.

This doesn't change the fact that, as of today, details/evidence remain vague and incomplete, which makes it difficult to formulate an opinion on potential guilt.
Then don't. No one's asking you to.
 

pdaj

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And "we haven't seen much in terms of details" ≠ "there's not much in terms of details". The allegations are along the lines of child abuse / child sexual assault. There's a criminal investigation. There's an MLB investigation. They don't update fantasy managers in real time, but hey,.
This makes a lot of sense. Thank you.

... Thoughts and Prayers™ to your team.
I appreciate this, as well!
 

Rovin Romine

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This doesn't change the fact that, as of today, details/evidence remain vague and incomplete, which makes it difficult to formulate an opinion on potential guilt.
"Guilt" can mean a lot of different things. Like, is he going to be found guilty of a crime in a court of law? Or would a civil case against him prevail? Or, regardless, do you think, as a matter of private opinion based on credible reporting/public facts, that he did something you find morally reprehensible?

Regardless, you're just going to have to be patient.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I've been trying to follow this story as an MLB fan, as well as a fantasy baseball participant who happens to roster Wander in his (freakin') dynasty league, but with such little/vague information available, it's been challenging to formulate an opinion. Over the last week or so, details on any progress have been non-existent.
Why is it urgent to you to formulate an opinion? If you're having trouble formulating an opinion, just wait. You are not obligated to have an opinion before you are ready to have an opinion.

Nobody is required to have an opinion about anything. Just sit on the sidelines without an opinion. Maybe something will happen and you will find it easier to have one, one way or the other.

It did seem like you were asking whether Franco will be a valuable asset in a dynasty league, in which case I would gobsmacked if you really can't understand the pushback.
 

brs3

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I've been trying to follow this story as an MLB fan, as well as a fantasy baseball participant who happens to roster Wander in his (freakin') dynasty league, but with such little/vague information available, it's been challenging to formulate an opinion. Over the last week or so, details on any progress have been non-existent.
There's still not much in terms of details -- timeframe, age, nature of the relationship, evidence, etc. Was the accuser 17 at the time when Wander was 18 or 19, or did this relationship occur with the minor recently? Some folks appear comfortable equating accusations with guilt (I've certainly been guilty of this in the past), but I'm trying to avoid that here, even amidst the keyboard virtue-signalers.

However, I'm sure that my patience will be tested if the accusations grow further, as they did with Watson.
Sorry, but this is a classic strawman tactic. Please re-read my original post. I stated that I was following the story as a result of being a general MLB fan and having rostered Wander in fantasy, not to "complain" about his unavailability. This doesn't change the fact that, as of today, details/evidence remain vague and incomplete, which makes it difficult to formulate an opinion on potential guilt.
I thought the first post might've been tongue in cheek, but the second and third post are classic whataboutit posts. Virtually every article about the multiple allegations state the girls were underage at the time. How many accusations are enough to say, oh, okay, I guess there might be something off here? Is your assumption that the 2nd and 3rd are unfounded? Made up? Questionable due to timing? Is the threshold of worrying about a dynasty league 5 allegations? 6? Or maybe the eventual court details will convince you it's not a sham. I'm sure your league will give you special dispensation to add/drop for your poor luck.

There's zero chance your dynasty league is secondary to your interest in this story as an MLB fan. You should absolutely die on the hill of defending the innocent until proven guilty. Thank you for your service, Eyes Of The Law.
 

Max Power

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It would be amazing if he traded Mookie to get Franco in this league. Then we could have another 10 pages of discussion about it.
 

Doc Zero

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If the only three points you’ve managed to make after several hours of posting in a thread like this are “it’s disappointing we can’t yet form an opinion about this person’s guilt,” “it’s important not to equate accusations with guilt,” and “all of you are virtue signaling,” you should probably be prepared for others to pick up on the dog whistle.
 

pdaj

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Why is it urgent to you to formulate an opinion? If you're having trouble formulating an opinion, just wait. You are not obligated to have an opinion before you are ready to have an opinion.

Nobody is required to have an opinion about anything. Just sit on the sidelines without an opinion. Maybe something will happen and you will find it easier to have one, one way or the other.

It did seem like you were asking whether Franco will be a valuable asset in a dynasty league, in which case I would gobsmacked if you really can't understand the pushback.
This assumption was/is a faulty one.

I'm in a lot of social circles where this story has come up/been discussed. Family/friends, as well as professionally. All sports fans. When I came across this thread, I became interested in the discussion, as it seemed as "caught up" with the situation as anywhere else and there were diverse opinions.

If theres smoke, theres usually fire. Theres probably not a whole lot of details becuase it actually involves minors.
I agree with this. Previously, there was suspicion of involvement with one minor (with a popular Twitter "rumor" circulating that it was when Wander was 17) and another possible complaint. Further complaints make it challenging for me to remain patient and not assume guilt.

I thought the first post might've been tongue in cheek, but the second and third post are classic whataboutit posts.
Whataboutism is defined as: the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counteraccusation or raising a different issue.

I did no such thing.

I reiterated my prior points. Details remain vague and there hasn't been a lot of progress with the investigation. Those who pointed out that this is common with circumstances involving minors -- thank you. Growing accusations would change my perspective.

If the only three points you’ve managed to make after several hours of posting in a thread like this are “it’s disappointing we can’t yet form an opinion about this person’s guilt,” “it’s important not to equate accusations with guilt,” and “all of you are virtue signaling,” you should probably be prepared for others to pick up on the dog whistle.
I'll manage!

And, several hours? It's been closer to 15-20 minutes cumulatively.
 
Last edited:

joe dokes

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There's still not much in terms of details -- timeframe, age, nature of the relationship, evidence, etc. Was the accuser 17 at the time when Wander was 18 or 19, or did this relationship occur with the minor recently? Some folks appear comfortable equating accusations with guilt (I've certainly been guilty of this in the past), but I'm trying to avoid that here, even amidst the keyboard virtue-signalers.

However, I'm sure that my patience will be tested if the accusations grow further, as they did with Watson.
"Virtue-signaling"?
No other explanations are needed.
I hope your patience passes the test.
 

pdaj

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My 6x6 league has kid fucking as a category.

If more people did this it wouldn’t be a debate.
That's a mic drop.

"Virtue-signaling"?
No other explanations are needed.
I hope your patience passes the test.
That's the tricky thing, isn't it? Many times, our quick judgment can prove accurate. And we're often applauded for being fastidious in our determination, making it quite addicting. But, then, there's a Manti Te'o type of situation every so often. Historically, POC have been granted far less patience with due process, which I'm also sensitive to.

Anyway, for the sake of general society, MLB, and my fantasy baseball team, I'm hoping that the investigation soon uncovers the truth and that Wander's involvement with teenagers occurred while he was also a teenager and within the law.

Please keep the updates coming!
 

YTF

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That's a mic drop.



That's the tricky thing, isn't it? Many times, our quick judgment can prove accurate. And we're often applauded for being fastidious in our determination, making it quite addicting. But, then, there's a Manti Te'o type of situation every so often. Historically, POC have been granted far less patience with due process, which I'm also sensitive to.

Anyway, for the sake of general society, MLB, and my fantasy baseball team, I'm hoping that the investigation soon uncovers the truth and that Wander's involvement with teenagers occurred while he was also a teenager and within the law.

Please keep the updates coming!
Honestly, you should quit while you're behind.
 

Marciano490

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Kinda wanna hear the rest of his baseball and football rosters. Dude has had Watson and Wander in dynasty leagues. I wanna make sure we don’t have any common players.
 

DontTauntOrtizMe

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He must not have been around when Aaron Hernandez was going through stuff because I don’t remember hearing how that impacted his fantasy team.
 

Ale Xander

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I never understood hockey fantasy leagues where PIM was a positive category, worth the same as Goals and Assists.

Pdaj’s league must take this to a whole new level.
 

jon abbey

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OK, while I think this pile-on is fully merited and I’m proud of everyone who participated (seriously), let’s move on, thanks.
 

jayhoz

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https://www.tampabay.com/sports/rays/2023/12/18/wander-franco-mlb-pre-arbitration-bonus-pool-isaac-paredes/

ST. PETERSBURG — Though Wander Franco missed the final 42 games of the season following allegations of improper relationships with minors, the Rays shortstop received one of the biggest payouts from baseball’s pre-arbitration bonus pool.

Franco made an additional $706,761, which was 13th most of the 101 players who got paid through the program, implemented under the 2022 labor agreement to funnel more money to players who don’t have enough service time to be eligible for arbitration; they typically are younger and making close to the league minimum.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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