Wander Franco Is In Trouble (Grooming/Pedo Warning)

Marciano490

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The Rays weren’t actually giving away hats to fans 14 and under tonight were they?

Shit news. Hope it’s not true, for the kid’s sake.
 

koufax32

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Yikes
Man do I hope this isn’t true for all the obvious reasons.

I’m not familiar at all with morality or “conduct unbecoming” clauses in MLB contracts. Are they standard, rare, non-existent, or impermissible? Looking down the line and IF the worst case scenario happens, what kind of fight would TB have on their hands in trying to void that contract if they wanted to?
 

cheekydave

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Thank you for reposting this. The only evidence I had when I originally posted this internet news besides the entire internet exploding, was a spanish worded post. I was trying to get it translated thru google to then post it here when my post got locked. I fully understand why , as I had no substantiation for such a horrible crime, I just wasnt able to translate the spanish article and upload it in time. The volume of chatter on the internet made it very clear there was a massive amount of smoke. Hope the investigation clears this all up.
 
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Marciano490

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What ended up happening to the Pirates closer like 3-4 years ago? Felipe something I think.
 

BigSoxFan

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I’m a bit confused about this. Social media posts from who? I’m aware of what is being alleged (gross) but who is the source?
 

jon abbey

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jon abbey

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Rasputin

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Yikes
Man do I hope this isn’t true for all the obvious reasons.

I’m not familiar at all with morality or “conduct unbecoming” clauses in MLB contracts. Are they standard, rare, non-existent, or impermissible? Looking down the line and IF the worst case scenario happens, what kind of fight would TB have on their hands in trying to void that contract if they wanted to?
I'm pretty sure there's a conduct clause in the standard player contract, but it's one of those things that's more or less never used. If this is true--and I'll join the chorus in saying I hope it isn't--I don't see how he plays again.

I mean, Bonds, Clemens, and Rose are being kept out of the Hall of Fame for far less.
 

Marciano490

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Seems like that’s as specific as it needs to get. Or that I’d wanna hear, anyways.
 

Marceline

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There’s a discussion thread on /r/tampabayrays right near the top that has more detailed info (screen shots) on the allegations.
 

Fishercat

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To Wingack’s point, there’s a lot of noise on this right now too and a wide range of outcomes that this could look like when more facts, whatever they are, come out. It feels like the range on this could be massive in terms of wrongdoing and nuance.

What a mess.
 

Marciano490

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Is that worded odd to anyone else? Are the Rays not also doing due diligence or are all such things only handled by the league?
 

CoolPapaBellhorn

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Is that worded odd to anyone else? Are the Rays not also doing due diligence or are all such things only handled by the league?
It’s a crutch for the teams. They don’t say anything while MLB handles the investigation. That was the standard line from the Dodgers during the Trevor Bauer situation, even as they extended his leave every two weeks. They literally said/did nothing else until MLB suspended him and then the team finally released him.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Seems like that’s as specific as it needs to get. Or that I’d wanna hear, anyways.
This is NOT posted as fact. I am NOT reporting this as news. But explaining what the league is looking into is obviously relevant here.

Screenshot_20230814_090246_Reddit.jpg

Anything the reddit poster says in his "SUPPOSEDLY" paragraph is irrelevant and purely speculation and should be taken as such.
 

RIrooter09

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Needing assurances that a girl you're dating is not underage seems like a red flag to me.
 

TSC

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It’s a crutch for the teams. They don’t say anything while MLB handles the investigation. That was the standard line from the Dodgers during the Trevor Bauer situation, even as they extended his leave every two weeks. They literally said/did nothing else until MLB suspended him and then the team finally released him.
I think that's probably the best way for teams to handle things though, right?

Like, if they come out too hard against the player - and it turns out the player is innocent, that relationship is now soured. On the other hand, if they support the player and he ends up being guilty - they look like they endorse that behavior.

The best thing for the team to do might just be to not do anything and let a relatively impartial (MLB) entity handle it.
 

Wingack

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This is NOT posted as fact. I am NOT reporting this as news. But explaining what the league is looking into is obviously relevant here.

View attachment 69107

Anything the reddit poster says in his "SUPPOSEDLY" paragraph is irrelevant and purely speculation and should be taken as such.
That post said it was from a few years ago, how old was Franco then? He’s a young guy now. He may have been a teenager himself at the time too.
 

Fishercat

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This is NOT posted as fact. I am NOT reporting this as news. But explaining what the league is looking into is obviously relevant here.

View attachment 69107

Anything the reddit poster says in his "SUPPOSEDLY" paragraph is irrelevant and purely speculation and should be taken as such.
That post said it was from a few years ago, how old was Franco then? He’s a young guy now. He may have been a teenager himself at the time too.

Just to add a tiny bit on the timing of this as I feel not great in terms of diving into this, I think if someone wants to, the tattoo on then neck (the three crosses, not the MLB Logo) could be used to date this. Getting in game images of that side of Wander's face is oddly difficult as he needs to be hitting righty (or the helmet covers it) but that means the other side of his neck is facing away from the camera.

Using these videos (both against the Sox...sorry guys)

WANDER FRANCO HAS ARRIVED! GAME-TYING 3-RUN HOMER FOR FIRST MLB HIT! - YouTube
All 6 of Wander Franco's 2022 Home Runs - YouTube

You can round the photo to at least after his debut, which takes out some of the years ago theory for the photos (not that you know, this couldn't pre-date it, we have no where near the facts yet on any of this). You can clearly see the tattoo on the Rich Hill HR (last one) on the second video. There is a now removed 2022 Spring Training photo describing the tattoo as "new", so I'm guessing that's your rough timeframe.
 
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Yaz4Ever

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A few years ago, he would've been 19. If she really was 14 and in the 8th grade as is being reported all over Twitter (who knows?), that's not good. At least as bad as the Trevor Bauer thing IF TRUE. Who knows if it's true, but I seriously hope not.
 

epraz

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Ah yes, very normal, getting mom’s permission to date her adult daughter.
 

opes

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You can round the photo to at least after his debut, which takes out some of the years ago theory for the photos (not that you know, this couldn't pre-date it, we have no where near the facts yet on any of this). You can clearly see the tattoo on the Rich Hill HR (last one) on the second video. There is a now remove 2022 Spring Training photo describing the tattoo as "new", so I'm guessing that's your rough timeframe.
SO jan/feb of '22 would be a round-about date for his tattoo. His debut was June 22nd, 2021 and he was 20 yrs old. So he would be close to 21 around the date of his new tattoo. I guess that doesn't really matter If he was involved with someone young. Jesus, I hope this isn't true.

Born: March 1, 2001 (Age: 22-166d) in Bani, Dominican Republic

Debut: June 22, 2021 (Age 20-113d, 22,417th in major league history)
 

TFisNEXT

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A few years ago, he would've been 19. If she really was 14 and in the 8th grade as is being reported all over Twitter (who knows?), that's not good. At least as bad as the Trevor Bauer thing IF TRUE. Who knows if it's true, but I seriously hope not.
If he legitimately thought she was 18 and he was 19 or 20 or 21, then it's definitely murkier than your typical underage case.

Still, lots of red flags like "getting permission" to date daughter. I'd wait for more confirmed details to come out, but it doesn't sound good for him.
 

Yaz4Ever

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If he legitimately thought she was 18 and he was 19 or 20 or 21, then it's definitely murkier than your typical underage case.

Still, lots of red flags like "getting permission" to date daughter. I'd wait for more confirmed details to come out, but it doesn't sound good for him.
Completely agree.

I don't want anyone dragged through the mud without proof, but if he was really 20 and she was 14 he's in big trouble, as he should be. I'm going to wait before vilifying him, though and I'm happy to see this thread refrain from judging and sentencing him yet.
 

CoolPapaBellhorn

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I think that's probably the best way for teams to handle things though, right?

Like, if they come out too hard against the player - and it turns out the player is innocent, that relationship is now soured. On the other hand, if they support the player and he ends up being guilty - they look like they endorse that behavior.

The best thing for the team to do might just be to not do anything and let a relatively impartial (MLB) entity handle it.
I don't disagree. I was referencing the weirdness of the Rays' statement mentioned by @Marciano490.

Teams probably should stay hands-off if MLB is already involved, but how they communicate with fans about the issue in the meantime (usually not at all) is frustrating.
 

Zososoxfan

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Just a quick cultural note on the "permission" aspect--in Latin culture, families are typically much closer-knit and "conservative" than you might be used to. For example, young adults often go to college while still living at home (I know this happens in the States too, but I think it might be more of the rule than the exception there), and continue to do so sometimes until they marry. So getting permission to date a parent's child isn't dispositive in this instance IMO. We're all still waiting for facts, and that's the only right thing to do here, but I wouldn't see that 'permission' tidbit and draw conclusions from it.

I was at the Trop yesterday and was bummed that Wander wasn't in the lineup. They did give away these snazzy yellow snapbacks and yes, they were Wander Franco-themed...

On a happier note, on Sunday day games kids get to run the bases and play in the outfield after the game. It was incredibly fun and I'm not sure who enjoyed it the most in my family. Is this common at other parks?
 

Wingack

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If he legitimately thought she was 18 and he was 19 or 20 or 21, then it's definitely murkier than your typical underage case.
Teenagers dating above and below the 18/17 year old line is not uncommon at all. My wife and were that way and 23 years later we are still married. I imagine that lots of athletes could get busted for that if the media started looking into everyone.


But the tattoo sleuthing in here shows he was likely a bit older.

Edit: also on the permission thing, it was pretty standard in the evangelical church I grew up in to ask the parents if you could date their daughter.
 

wilked

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A summary of 'information' (not facts)

-Photos of him arm and arm and a cheek-kiss to a young female
-Reports that she was 14 in the above photos
-Deduction that he was 20/21 at the time of the photos / events
-Reports that the mother gave permission for Wander to date her daughter at that time, and that both mother / daughter indicated her age to be 18

What a mess. I hope for the sake of everyone involved this does not turn out to be worst case scenario
 

opes

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Teenagers dating above and below the 18/17 year old line is not uncommon at all. My wife and were that way and 23 years later we are still married. I imagine that lots of athletes could get busted for that if the media started looking into everyone.


But the tattoo sleuthing in here shows he was likely a bit older.

Edit: also on the permission thing, it was pretty standard in the evangelical church I grew up in to ask the parents if you could date their daughter.
In the midwest at least, its not uncommon to ask permission from the father of the bride to propose. I did at least.
 

glennhoffmania

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Teenagers dating above and below the 18/17 year old line is not uncommon at all. My wife and were that way and 23 years later we are still married. I imagine that lots of athletes could get busted for that if the media started looking into everyone.


But the tattoo sleuthing in here shows he was likely a bit older.

Edit: also on the permission thing, it was pretty standard in the evangelical church I grew up in to ask the parents if you could date their daughter.
I think in some states at least an 18 year old can date a 17 year old, but a 21 year old can't. Otherwise it would make no sense.
Same here in the South. I asked my now father-in-law for permission (he is from Maryland).
I thought that was pretty much all over. I asked as well, but even if he said no I would've done it because he's a fucking moron.
 

Ale Xander

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On a happier note, on Sunday day games kids get to run the bases and play in the outfield after the game. It was incredibly fun and I'm not sure who enjoyed it the most in my family. Is this common at other parks?
Yes.
Fenway does it, but only for like 6 days a year, most/all of them getaway Sundays or sometimes Thursdays. Always a day game. Including yesterday.
 

CarolinaBeerGuy

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I thought that was pretty much all over. I asked as well, but even if he said no I would've done it because he's a fucking moron.
It was definitely more out of respect/tradition than anything else. I would have proposed regardless of what he said.

EDIT: Now back on topic. I really hope this Wander thing isn’t true.
 

Rovin Romine

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Devil's in the details on this one.

First, the general inference seems to be all this took place in the DR, which probably has the following implications:

1) The DR has a general age of consent (AFAIK) of 18? If there are specific "Romeo and Juliet" exceptions for parties being within a few years of each other across the age of consent line, I do not know them. Likewise, if the DR isn't strict liability (where you can assert you were mislead and thus avoid liability), I don't know. So, criminal/civil liability in the DR will depend on not only the ages of the parties, but the law of that country.

2) Even given the written DR law (whatever it is) the social culture of the DR is not the same as the US.

3) Baseball is looking into this on their own and will make determinations that stand outside the criminal authorities reaction to the issue. e.g., Trevor Bauer. How much they will be swayed by the law/local culture of the DR is an open question.

So, really the devil is in the details. Their relative ages and the kinds of relationships they had at what points in time being the biggest things here, obviously.

I can see discipline issuing if the numbers look bad. e.g., he was >20 having sex with a 14 or 15 year old.

The asking for permission thing seems like it’s a red herring.
Does it really matter if the mother is also a bad actor?

I suppose in a moral sense it goes to if he knew or should have known his girlfriend's age. But there I think, she'd have age-peer friends, attend a specific school, have or not have a driver's license, etc. etc. There's any number of ways one could know - this isn't alleged to be a one-night-stand with a 17 year old who claims they're 18.

I suppose it also might factor in if the mother knew the girl was technically underage - 17 years, 9 months, and approved anyway. But the alleged facts are nowhere near that.
 

sodenj5

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So if he met her family and everyone said she was 18, is he really at fault?

We don’t know the details, but what if they showed him a fake ID or birth certificate? If her family was in on it, it probably wouldn’t be the craziest thing for a Dominican family to try and set up their daughter with a rich and successful athlete.

This seems pretty murky and Wander is probably going to miss a decent chunk of time while this investigation plays out.
 

Rovin Romine

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trekfan55

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I applaud MLB and the Rays for sitting him down and doing the necessary investigation into the matter.

We need to wait for this to be cleared up properly though. Him being 21 and a major leaguer being involved with a 14 year old is terrible (and illegal too). Him being a teenager dating another teenager (ages being key) is different.
Let's hope the details come out and it's not as horrible as it looks. For all our sakes.