Victorino Says Stuff.

Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt · Mar 24, 2015

Here's my totally unfair, but emotionally honest (over)reaction to the above Victorino quote:

This makes me dislike him and wish he were healthy so we could trade him. Again, totally unfair, but shut the fuck up, Shane. You can't stay healthy. You need days off. You're paid a lot for a guy who gets tight or sore or whatever as often as you have lately. There's a growing injury history with you and we have multiple players right now who MAY be better options than a continually hobbled, formerly beloved post-season hero.

This is the part where you SHUT UP and get healthy and reclaim your position, not when you hedge your bets and hope against hope that the team will hand you RF and a spot in the batting order despite someone (or two) else beating you out for it.

jimbobim · Mar 24, 2015

Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt said:
Here's my totally unfair, but emotionally honest (over)reaction to the above Victorino quote:

This makes me dislike him and wish he were healthy so we could trade him. Again, totally unfair, but shut the fuck up, Shane. You can't stay healthy. You need days off. You're paid a lot for a guy who gets tight or sore or whatever as often as you have lately. There's a growing injury history with you and we have multiple players right now who MAY be better options than a continually hobbled, formerly beloved post-season hero.

This is the part where you SHUT UP and get healthy and reclaim your position, not when you hedge your bets and hope against hope that the team will hand you RF and a spot in the batting order despite someone (or two) else beating you out for it.

I assume you mean this one from Nicky earlier today ?

“The one thing we can’t avoid is that Shane is coming off back surgery, so he’s not 100 percent right now. We said Shane Victorino healthy is our starting right fielder. We haven’t come off that. We’re still in the process of him regaining quickness and running speed. What’s his overall durability and how many games can we plan for?”
We interpret that as meaning there’s a chance Victorino could start on the disabled list, letting him get stronger with minor league at-bats. Victorino might oppose this idea, though.

For a bunch of beat writers and media that have been annoyingly persistent in wondering where the 39 y/o DH is, the benefit of the doubt being afforded Vic is so over the top it's unbelievable. Compare Craig and Vic and one has been bussing everywhere doing everything possible to show he's recovered from the foot. With Vic he came out saying all the right things , trying to switch hit again, and so on. Now ,switch hitting has been dropped ,Edes buries the headline in an article late last night that opposing scouts are deeply mistrustful he's healthy and ,yet ,all we've heard all Spring is the 2013 Vic was arguably their best OF. Also completely agree with what someone upthread said i,t's not like Castillo is a 23-24 y/o . He's 27 and while you may want more at bats for him ,ideally, the reality is given the massive health concerns surrounding Vic , Castillo should be in the starting OF. The quotes today from Farrell seem to indicate that "if healthy" qualifier may finally be justifiably be in doubt.

LesterFan · Mar 26, 2015

Red Sox Stats @redsoxstats

Saw @FenwayNation mention this. Could someone pls tell Victorino to STFU this spring? Convenient he'd send Betts out.

Am I misunderstanding, or is Victorino saying why hope Betts becomes himself? Betts is already better than him. Regardless, starting to get annoyed with Victorino.

Snodgrass'Muff · Mar 26, 2015

There is no reason to believe he's talking about Betts instead of Swihart there. He was very non-specific and could easily mean either. Leaping to the conclusion that he's arguing Betts should be sent out to make room for him is, well.. a leap.

reggiecleveland · Mar 26, 2015

Fellas you can't expect an athlete to believe the best option is not himself. He would not have gotten to where he is without extreme confidence and a selfish focus. Even if he was healthy he would want the Sox to go for it. He has one year left with the team he would like to play in the Ws. The best cahne is to load up on Vets. He does not give fuck what happens next year, other that where he will play. If you guys would rather he didn't say it, fine, but you can't fault a guy for thinking it.

It is human nature to rationalize getting what best suits yourself. I was laughing at myself at a baseball meeting last night. Last year my kid was a first year player. I was all for development, playing everybody, spread the playing time etc. This year he is one of the older kids and improved a ton this winter. Now suddenly I start wondering if we should try to be a bit more competitive this year.

Savin Hillbilly · Mar 26, 2015

Snodgrass'Muff said:
There is no reason to believe he's talking about Betts instead of Swihart there. He was very non-specific and could easily mean either. Leaping to the conclusion that he's arguing Betts should be sent out to make room for him is, well.. a leap.

There's no reason to assume he's talking about any one young player in particular, but if he is, it's far more likely he's talking about one of the guys who could take his job--Betts or Rusney--rather than Swihart, who can't.

judyb · Mar 26, 2015

I don't know, if he's really thinking about any of the guys who could take his job while saying that, I'd like to think he might realize how self-serving he sounds.

Reverend · Mar 26, 2015

LesterFan said:
Red Sox Stats @redsoxstats

Saw @FenwayNation mention this. Could someone pls tell Victorino to STFU this spring? Convenient he'd send Betts out.

Am I misunderstanding, or is Victorino saying why hope Betts becomes himself? Betts is already better than him. Regardless, starting to get annoyed with Victorino.

Don't post if you're not reading the thread.

Thanks.

- The Mgmt.

Tyrone Biggums · Mar 26, 2015

Snodgrass'Muff said:
There is no reason to believe he's talking about Betts instead of Swihart there. He was very non-specific and could easily mean either. Leaping to the conclusion that he's arguing Betts should be sent out to make room for him is, well.. a leap.

Agreed. He could also be referring to Castillo too despite being 27. I don't think Mookie is considered a prospect anymore. Besides I see nothing wrong with this at all, it shows Victorino wants to win. I'm fine with that. I think this team needs Hamels to do it, but they won't have to part with Swihart to get him. Betts has graduated to Xander status, which is former top prospect that's now apart of the future core and untouchable.

Besides, I can't find the article but I'm pretty sure Victorino was complementary of Betts earlier in camp.

MikeM · Mar 26, 2015

Savin Hillbilly said:
There's no reason to assume he's talking about any one young player in particular, but if he is, it's far more likely he's talking about one of the guys who could take his job--Betts or Rusney--rather than Swihart, who can't.

If we were "hoping" Swihart becomes Vazquez as a hitter, a deal for Hamels would probably have been Ben's first pitching acquisition of this past winter.

Red(s)HawksFan · Mar 26, 2015

Apparently, Victorino is pissed about the misinterpretation of his comments being about Betts.

Brian MacPherson @brianmacp
Victorino fired up about "Mazz and whoever that other guy is" interpreting his comments as him wanting Mookie Betts traded.

Brian MacPherson @brianmacp
Victorino: "Don't sit behind a mike and be a coward and put words in my mouth." Reiterated belief Betts is a McCutchen in the making.

Rob Bradford @bradfo
Victorino not happy with suggestion trying to get young OFs traded. Very adamant in his defense. More coming on @WEEI weei.com

I interpreted his comments as being pro-Hamels, not anti-Betts/Castillo. He wants them to acquire Hamels and doesn't think prospects should be the hurdle that prevents it.

TigerBlood · Mar 26, 2015

Red(s)HawksFan said:
<p>Apparently, Victorino is pissed about the misinterpretation of his comments being about Betts.

link to tweetBrian MacPherson @brianmacp
Victorino fired up about "Mazz and whoever that other guy is" interpreting his comments as him wanting Mookie Betts traded.

link to tweetBrian MacPherson @brianmacp
Victorino: "Don't sit behind a mike and be a coward and put words in my mouth." Reiterated belief Betts is a McCutchen in the making.

[url=" [URL="https://twitter.com/bradfo/status/581079463720558592%22%5D

https://twitter.com/bradfo/status/581079463720558592%22%5D"]https://twitter.com/bradfo/status/581079463720558592"]

link to tweet[/url]Rob Bradford @bradfo[/url]
Victorino not happy with suggestion trying to get young OFs traded. Very adamant in his defense. More coming on @WEEI weei.com

I interpreted his comments as being pro-Hamels, not anti-Betts/Castillo. He wants them to acquire Hamels and doesn't think prospects should be the hurdle that prevents it.

Sometimes I wish GMs were as mouthy as players, just so they would respond in kind when players try to give their two cents on how to do the front office's job like this.

"Shane's hit a bunch of home runs before I think, therefore he should definitely just do that every at bat for the next few years since he wants me to sell off all his replacements. Also, he's a grown man playing a sport so he won't mind taking a pay cut down to what we were going to pay Betts"

Plympton91 · Mar 26, 2015

I also interpreted Victorino's comments as being more about his disbelief that the Red Sox would pass up a chance to acquire Hamels than about any particular Red Sox prospect. He should still STFU.

Buzzkill Pauley · Mar 26, 2015

Plympton91 said:
I also interpreted Victorino's comments as being more about his disbelief that the Red Sox would pass up a chance to acquire Hamels than about any particular Red Sox prospect. He should still STFU.

Me too. Sure he should STFU, but acquiring Hamels must be especially compelling to Vic because a) they already won a WS together, b) Hamels won the MVP of that series, c) Vic is on the last year of his deal, and d) the Sox starting pitching is suspect.

It's unfortunate that his comments can be taken so easily as anti-competition because of the injuries and OF logjam and all, but you can't fault him for wanting to GFIN or wanting to reunite with a past teammate who can help with that goal. He's justified to be pissed off at whomever seized on the soundbite to make a headline.

RetractableRoof · Mar 26, 2015

I've got no issue with him speaking his mind on acquiring Hamels. If he knows Hamels is available and the Sox have shown interest - then he also has to know what has been reported as the Phillies asking price. At that point you either choose your words carefully or risk being seen as throwing people under the bus. He can't have it both ways. If asked, decline comment or tread carefully. If he had been in town 2 months and didn't know the media here I'd give the benefit of the doubt. But he's a veteran with a good media rapore and likely thought he could speak his mind. But claiming he was being called out for something he didn't do is lame at best. STFU is about right.

Savin Hillbilly · Mar 26, 2015

RetractableRoof said:
I've got no issue with him speaking his mind on acquiring Hamels. If he knows Hamels is available and the Sox have shown interest - then he also has to know what has been reported as the Phillies asking price. At that point you either choose your words carefully or risk being seen as throwing people under the bus. He can't have it both ways. If asked, decline comment or tread carefully. If he had been in town 2 months and didn't know the media here I'd give the benefit of the doubt. But he's a veteran with a good media rapore and likely thought he could speak his mind. But claiming he was being called out for something he didn't do is lame at best. STFU is about right.

Exactly this. You can't on the one hand say "we shouldn't hold on to young hopefuls at the expense of getting a guy who's already elite", and on the other, deny that you were suggesting actual young hopefuls in your organization should be traded. The one inevitably implies the other. He can say that he didn't mean any specific player, but that's just tantamount to admitting, "I didn't really think this through before I opened my mouth"--a pardonable sin but not one that is likely to go unpunished in Boston.

Harry Hooper · Mar 26, 2015

Savin Hillbilly said:
Exactly this. You can't on the one hand say "we shouldn't hold on to young hopefuls at the expense of getting a guy who's already elite", and on the other, deny that you were suggesting actual young hopefuls in your organization should be traded. The one inevitably implies the other. He can say that he didn't mean any specific player, but that's just tantamount to admitting, "I didn't really think this through before I opened my mouth"--a pardonable sin but not one that is likely to go unpunished in Boston.

Right, he thought he WAS being careful by talking about trading a pitching prospect for an established pitcher, and then about trading a hitting prospect for an established hitter. But that's obviously not enough cover.

JohntheBaptist · Mar 26, 2015

There's also the fact that you can express that sentiment--"boy, I'd love to have Cole Hamels on this team"--without once mentioning a minor leaguer or going into some breakdown of your own roster construction philosophies.

It probably wasn't malicious, but it wasn't real smart either. In any event, it's a moot point because Mookie Betts is going absolutely nowhere.

joe dokes · Mar 26, 2015

Also, given the number of "you knows" in a 2 minute conversation with Victorino, things getting lost in translation is not surprising.

There's also the fact that you can express that sentiment--"boy, I'd love to have Cole Hamels on this team"--without once mentioning a minor leaguer or going into some breakdown of your own roster construction philosophies.

Hey, the tampering thread is two door down on the left.

Buzzkill Pauley · Mar 26, 2015

Savin Hillbilly said:
Exactly this. You can't on the one hand say "we shouldn't hold on to young hopefuls at the expense of getting a guy who's already elite", and on the other, deny that you were suggesting actual young hopefuls in your organization should be traded. The one inevitably implies the other. He can say that he didn't mean any specific player, but that's just tantamount to admitting, "I didn't really think this through before I opened my mouth"--a pardonable sin but not one that is likely to go unpunished in Boston.

I'm sorry, but this seems fair really only for management. It's pretty unreasonable to hold players to the same standards that might be expected of the GM or ownership group when making statements on how best to balance long and short term team building. Shane Victorino wasn't hired to make decisions impacting the ability of the club to win both now and five years down the road. He was hired to launch a late-inning Game 6 curveball into the Monster Seats.

Because a ballplayer's job is to win now, it's a no-win situation to ever answer any question from a reporter about team building or roster construction. Especially in Boston.

joe dokes · Mar 26, 2015

Buzzkill Pauley said:
Because a ballplayer's job is to win now, it's a no-win situation to ever answer any question from a reporter about team building or roster construction. Especially in Boston.

Seriously...this is it. "Cole's a great pitcher, but we all know Ben and the gang know how to build a great team" is about as far as a player can go.

ALiveH · Mar 26, 2015

I was pissed at Victorino's comments and between that & the injuries & how much he's getting paid & the probability that he'd actually underperform the young guys, I would not be sad to see HIM traded (but I do appreciate & love him for 2013). I thought his comments were reflective of the well-documented entitlement mentality MLB veterans have towards rookies. It had undertones of Gregg Zaun, minus the physical abuse & hazing:
http://andrewstoeten.com/2015/02/19/gregg-zaun-on-playing-the-right-way-and-physical-abuse-at-the-hands-of-cal-ripken/

geoduck no quahog · Mar 26, 2015

I suspect all will be forgiven if he's hitting .300 on May 1.

I suspect people will hate him if he's hitting .200 on May 1.

Who gives 2 fucks about what a player says to the assholes that write for sports pages. Didn't ballghazi teach us that sports "reporters" are the most incompetent collection of ignorant boobs on the planet?

I don't care what sports figures say (supposedly or not), as that's a clubhouse issue. I care what they do. I would think most people here agree with that.

smastroyin · Mar 26, 2015

I hate the mountain out of molehill "what players say" stuff.

That said, is it any surprise at all that a veteran who

- is not going to be around to watch the kids mature
- has no real interest in the long-term of the Boston Red Sox
- would like to win

would really like the Red Sox to forego the future in favor of obtaining his buddy that he played with an won a World Series and a pennant with?

Sure, don't make Shane Victorino the GM. But why this makes his detestable is beyond me.

chrisfont9 · Mar 26, 2015

ALiveH said:
I was pissed at Victorino's comments and between that & the injuries & how much he's getting paid & the probability that he'd actually underperform the young guys, I would not be sad to see HIM traded (but I do appreciate & love him for 2013). I thought his comments were reflective of the well-documented entitlement mentality MLB veterans have towards rookies. It had undertones of Gregg Zaun, minus the physical abuse & hazing:
http://andrewstoeten.com/2015/02/19/gregg-zaun-on-playing-the-right-way-and-physical-abuse-at-the-hands-of-cal-ripken/

Meh. He was talking to Philadelphia media about a former teammate. Of course he's going to pump Hamels' tires a bit. So what?

Sprowl · Mar 26, 2015

Victorino is hyper and not too bright, and his mouth moves faster than his brain. He's also entering the last year of his contract, needs to show that he has come off injury, and plays on a team with a long-term surplus of outfielders and a possible short-term shortage of catchers.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a my-problem-for-your-mistake deal, in which the Red Sox will cover a chunk of Victorino's salary and get a stopgap veteran catcher to stand in with Hanigan while Christian spends 40 days in the desert.

I'd like to hear Fenway sing at least one last rousing chorus of Three Little Birds, and we'll always have 2013.

mauidano · Mar 26, 2015

Early season "taken out of context" stuff. Not the first time and not the last time. Much ado about nothing. Let's play some ball already.

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