Unusual plays

flymrfreakjar

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 30, 2006
2,704
Brooklyn
Lose Remerswaal said:
 
Happens all the time, especially with bunts.  This is why you'll see a fielder wait for it to get across the foul line and then dive in to grab it before it has a chance to roll back in to fair ground.  Can be because the ground around the foul line is sloped a bit (no MLB rule against that), or if it hits the edge of the grass it might roll back towards fair territory.
Sure, I've seen that many times. I guess I always assumed they at least started in fair territory. Never thought about it starting foul and coming back. Thought it at had to hit fair first, at least for a second.
 

cannonball 1729

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Sep 8, 2005
2,587
The Sticks
I just watched that again - did the third base coach accidentally knock Carrera off 3rd?  It kind of looks like he taps Carrera, and then Carrera falls over as the coach stands there dumbfounded.
 

Soxfan in Fla

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 30, 2001
7,126
cannonball 1729 said:
I just watched that again - did the third base coach accidentally knock Carrera off 3rd?  It kind of looks like he taps Carrera, and then Carrera falls over as the coach stands there dumbfounded.
Pretty sure you are right.
 

Rice4HOF

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 21, 2002
1,726
Calgary, Canada
Depends on local ground rules. If the last place his feet were before making the catch was in "live ball" territory, then it's a catch. If he steps into "dead ball" territory (e.g., the stands) and then catches the ball it's just a foul ball. The top of the fence? Depends on the ground rules. I know locally most of the stadiums have the tarp being dead ball territory because they don't want anyone stepping on it and tearing it. It's obviously in play in the MLB. Since they awarded the out, I'm guessing the top of the facing is deemed to be in play.
Note that they did award the baserunner an extra base since Rizzo fell in dead ball territory after making the catch.
 

soxhop411

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 4, 2009
34,224
AB in DC said:
Thanks, soxhop.  One of these days I'll learn how to embed clips like that.
control click, copy image URL then click the icon that looks like a picture (the one to the left of  < >) and paste the link)
 
Edit: on PC Right click
 

OfTheCarmen

Cow Humper
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2007
3,443
I was hoping to see an angle that showed whether the 2B ump made an out call or not.  If he did, there's some understandability on Howard's reaction.
 

BroodsSexton

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 4, 2006
9,193
guam
Isn't he out of the baseline, anyways?  Or is that only an out if it's done to avoid a tag?
 
EDIT:  Looks like (a)(1) applies only if the batter is attempting to avoid being tagged.  But what about (a)(2)?
 
Link:
 
(a) (1) He runs more than three feet away from his baseline to avoid being tagged unless his action is to avoid interference with a fielder fielding a batted ball. A runners baseline is established when the tag attempt occurs and is a straight line from the runner to the base he is attempting to reach safely; or (2) after touching first base, he leaves the baseline, obviously abandoning his effort to touch the next base;
Rule 7.08(a) Comment: Any runner after reaching first base who leaves the baseline heading for his dugout or his position believing that there is no further play, may be declared out if the umpire judges the act of the runner to be considered abandoning his efforts to run the bases. Even though an out is called, the ball remains in play in regard to any other runner.
This rule also covers the following and similar plays: Less than two out, score tied last of ninth inning, runner on first, batter hits a ball out of park for winning run, the runner on first passes second and thinking the home run automatically wins the game, cuts across diamond toward his bench as batter-runner circles bases. In this case, the base runner would be called out for abandoning his effort to touch the next base and batter-runner permitted to continue around bases to make his home run valid. If there are two out, home run would not count (see Rule 7.12). This is not an appeal play.

 
 
It appears that abandoning efforts to run the bases can be an out, but according to this, it is only after reaching first base.  Could a runner be called out for abandoning his effort to get to first?
 

OfTheCarmen

Cow Humper
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2007
3,443
I've seen on dropped third strikes, the ump calling the batter out after he walks away and the catcher doesnt chase him down to tag or throw to first.
 

Soxfan in Fla

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 30, 2001
7,126
Went to Rays/Royals and saw 3 different plays which were pretty unusual.

Top 3rd, runner on 1st, no one out and Butera is up. He squares to bunt on first pitch. Then bunts on the next pitch. Perfectly put down in front of the plate for the Rays to turn two with Butera running. Problem is, Rivera picks the ball up and looks at 2nd and Beckham, the SS, isn't covering. Then he looks at 1st and no one is covering 1st either.

2nd is top of the 8th. Morales is up with 1st and 3rd and 1 out. He hits it to Loney at first who throws home. Rivera easily tags Zobrist for the out. He then turns around to see Kendry Morales still standing in the box. He tags him out for the double play. Morales thought it should have been foul and didn't bother running.

2nd batter in bottom of the 8th is Asdrubal Cabrera. He is down 0-1 in the count and attempts to call time but doesn't get it. So he lunges and hits a grounder to first, them stays at home plate to argue. In the span of 3 batters, 2 of them hit grounders to first and never left the batters box.
 

E5 Yaz

Transcends message boarding
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
62,141
Oregon
Shane Victorino just broke the left field fence in Oakland
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
37,946
Not really unusual play I guess, but last night Ziegler entered game for D-Backs in the 9th with 3 run lead. Had he finished off the game he would have gotten a save. Instead, though, because he blew the game he doesn't get a blown save because his appearance wasn't a save situation when he entered, it could only become one if he closed other team out.
 
Seems odd that in a situation where you could earn save, you don't get a blown save for not doing it.
 

Rice4HOF

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 21, 2002
1,726
Calgary, Canada
DrewDawg said:
Not really unusual play I guess, but last night Ziegler entered game for D-Backs in the 9th with 3 run lead. Had he finished off the game he would have gotten a save. Instead, though, because he blew the game he doesn't get a blown save because his appearance wasn't a save situation when he entered, it could only become one if he closed other team out.
 
Seems odd that in a situation where you could earn save, you don't get a blown save for not doing it.
This isn't quite right. In a situation that you can earn a save, you DO get a blown save if you leave the game after giving up the lead. In last night's game, he entered leading 4-1 and left while still leading 4-3. He left the bases loaded and subsequently 2 of his runners scored, so he got tagged with all 4 runs and the loss, but it was actually the pitcher that came in after him that got the blown save as he was on the mound when the winning run scored. To make it even more unfair, Ziegler actually got credit for a hold because he held the lead (very perilously).

In fact if a reliever comes into the game with a 1 run lead and the bases loaded in the 6th inning and allows a run to score and is replaced, he too will get charged for a blown save as it could have been a save situation if he pitched until the end of the game.

Each game can have many pitchers get holds or blown saves on both teams and at most one with the save. In fact it's possible (but I've never seen it happen) for the same pitcher to get 2 blown saves in 1 game.

Sorry I can talk all day on scoring rules, and how stupid most of them are.
 

AB in DC

OG Football Writing
SoSH Member
Jul 10, 2002
6,146
Springfield, VA
Yeah, I remember that rule from Game 5 of the 2004 ALCS.  Mariano came into the game a one-run lead, runners on first and third and no outs.  Even though a run scores like 90% of the time in that situation, the Tek sac fly officially gave him a blown save.
 

kieckeredinthehead

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 26, 2006
8,167
Rice4HOF said:
This isn't quite right. In a situation that you can earn a save, you DO get a blown save if you leave the game after giving up the lead. In last night's game, he entered leading 4-1 and left while still leading 4-3. He left the bases loaded and subsequently 2 of his runners scored, so he got tagged with all 4 runs and the loss, but it was actually the pitcher that came in after him that got the blown save as he was on the mound when the winning run scored. To make it even more unfair, Ziegler actually got credit for a hold because he held the lead (very perilously).

In fact if a reliever comes into the game with a 1 run lead and the bases loaded in the 6th inning and allows a run to score and is replaced, he too will get charged for a blown save as it could have been a save situation if he pitched until the end of the game.

Each game can have many pitchers get holds or blown saves on both teams and at most one with the save. In fact it's possible (but I've never seen it happen) for the same pitcher to get 2 blown saves in 1 game.

Sorry I can talk all day on scoring rules, and how stupid most of them are.
The internet seems to think that if you blow the save and your offense comes back to take the lead, you are now the pitcher of record in line for the win and can't be charged with a second blown save.
 

Rice4HOF

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 21, 2002
1,726
Calgary, Canada
kieckeredinthehead said:
The internet seems to think that if you blow the save and your offense comes back to take the lead, you are now the pitcher of record in line for the win and can't be charged with a second blown save.
I don't always believe everything I read on the internet as there are many "experts" spouting opininons who don't really know what they are talking about.  But in this case what you said is absolutely correct. In that situation you'd only have one blown save, and then possibly a win or a loss as well. 
 
But a pitcher being charged with 2 blown saves can happen, although I've never seen it in the MLB. It would require a pitcher to blow a save, and be replaced on the mound, but staying in the game. Later, after his team takes the lead he pitches again, and again blows another lead. He would be charged with a blown save for each of his 2 separate pitching appearances in that game. 
 

LogansDad

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 15, 2006
17,503
Alamogordo
Rice4HOF said:
I don't always believe everything I read on the internet as there are many "experts" spouting opininons who don't really know what they are talking about.  But in this case what you said is absolutely correct. In that situation you'd only have one blown save, and then possibly a win or a loss as well. 
 
But a pitcher being charged with 2 blown saves can happen, although I've never seen it in the MLB. It would require a pitcher to blow a save, and be replaced on the mound, but staying in the game. Later, after his team takes the lead he pitches again, and again blows another lead. He would be charged with a blown save for each of his 2 separate pitching appearances in that game. 
I'm pretty sure seeing this happen would fall close behind Pedro, Tom Brady, Papi, and my kids on my list of favorite things ever.

It needs to happen with Vin Scully calling the game, though.
 

Rice4HOF

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 21, 2002
1,726
Calgary, Canada
singaporesoxfan said:
I think he was talking about cases where the pitcher moves to left field for one or more batters and then comes back on the mound, which is totally legit.

Chris Resop did this in this game in 2008 - http://m.bbref.com/m?p=XXboxesXXATLXXATL200804030.shtml
Yes that's what I was talking about. Was a bit more common in the 70s. I remember Pirates reliever Kent Tekulve doing that a few times, presumably to bring someone in for a batter to get a lefty/lefty matchup.
 

singaporesoxfan

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 21, 2004
8,090
Washington, DC
Retrosheet has a list of games in which pitchers made two appearances though it's incomplete (doesn't have the Resop game I listed above for example) - http://retrosheet.org/Research/WeigandJ/Pitchers%20with%20Two%20Appearances%20in%20One%20Game.pdf

My favorites are the ones in which a pitcher started and finished the game but didn't get a complete game (Sam McDowell did it twice) and the 1986 game where Jesse Orosco and Roger McDowell took turns on the mound in the last 5 innings depending on who was at bat.
 

AB in DC

OG Football Writing
SoSH Member
Jul 10, 2002
6,146
Springfield, VA
By the way, when I started this thread, I never intended for this to be an "ESPN Not Top Ten" ripoff for just gawking at dumb things that players do.  It was to highlight plays or events that you probably have never seen before that people found cool and interesting.
 
So please consider this a humble request to leave the other stuff for your local social network, or start a new thread or whatever.