UFC/MMA in 2016

djbayko

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So how does this work? There is no longer a belt on the line - they're simply fighting for purse / glory / record, correct? And they've agreed upon a revised weight of 170? I'm not a huge follower of UFC, but I find this intriguing and am curious to see what these guys will look like without having to cut.

I'm a fan of Conor's cocksure attitude. He's setting himself up for a huge letdown somewhere down the road, a la Rousey, but it sure is fun in the meantime.
 

Marciano490

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Eh, he's already lost and being undefeated doesn't seem like such a big deal for male MMA fighters. Even Silva had a loss from way back when.

Plus, he's taking fights where he's not going to take crap for losing. He basically seems to be saying that he's going to go up and up till he's stopped.
 

Hagios

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Question from someone who only watches MMA occasionally. I read that Dada almost died because of having to cut weight. Why don't MMA fighters (and boxers, wrestlers, etc.) require their weigh-in ten minutes or an hour before the fight starts? Sometime close enough to the fight that you can't expect to fully rehydrate from an IV.
 

rembrat

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The UFC would miss out on the really cool photo ops that happens during the face downs? I don't know.

Most fighters would probably hate it and go somewhere else. There are bunch of fighters that walk around 1 or 2 full weight classes above the one they compete in.

Marciano?
 

luckiestman

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Question from someone who only watches MMA occasionally. I read that Dada almost died because of having to cut weight. Why don't MMA fighters (and boxers, wrestlers, etc.) require their weigh-in ten minutes or an hour before the fight starts? Sometime close enough to the fight that you can't expect to fully rehydrate from an IV.

because the fighters would still cut weight and it would be more dangerous to have dehydrated dudes fighting
 

rembrat

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because the fighters would still cut weight and it would be more dangerous to have dehydrated dudes fighting
The powerlifting federation I compete in has 2 hour weigh-ins and it is a pretty good deterrent against huge water cuts. So the dudes that want to cut 20lbs and have 24hrs to replenish go compete somewhere else.
 

Marciano490

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Amateurs were before the fights, but rembat and LM have it. You'd still have people cutting, only much closer in time to the fights which would not only be more dangerous, but also affect the quality of the fights. The day before is far healthier. I agree cutting can be dangerous, but - and I'm no doctor - I don't think Dada had issues because he cut, I think he had issues because he's a fat shit in terrible condition.
 

mikeford

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Amateurs were before the fights, but rembat and LM have it. You'd still have people cutting, only much closer in time to the fights which would not only be more dangerous, but also affect the quality of the fights. The day before is far healthier. I agree cutting can be dangerous, but - and I'm no doctor - I don't think Dada had issues because he cut, I think he had issues because he's a fat shit in terrible condition.
Well he had issues because he's a fat shit in terrible condition who tried to drop 40 pounds in a week before the fight. It's all related to each other.

There's no easy answer to the weight cutting thing. If you push it closer to the fight, you'd have some guys who stop cutting dramatically, but you also run the risk of someone still massively cutting and then possibly dying in the ring. The last thing UFC wants is a dead fighter in the Octagon. And of course if you push it further from the fight, you're going to get guys putting on crazy amount of weight and stepping into the cage 20-30 pounds heavier than they weighed in, which at that point makes the whole concept of a weight class seem pointless.
 

Marciano490

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Yes, obviously it's all related, but one of the things about cutting weight is you have to be in otherwise good health to do it. Plus, I don't know the man, but from the looks of him, he's not a nutrition and sport science expert so I doubt this was a finely executed Duffin/Sapir/Carroll type cut.

Frankly, I'd think the healthier thing is to have weigh ins further out and maybe put a night-of cap in place. So, say you have to weigh in at 168 3 days before the fight, but still must step in the ring at 180 or 185. I really thing weight is overblown as a factor in safety within reason. Some larger guys are weaker and hit with less force than smaller guys. It's a pretty poor proxy for dangerousness.
 

mikeford

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Yes, obviously it's all related, but one of the things about cutting weight is you have to be in otherwise good health to do it. Plus, I don't know the man, but from the looks of him, he's not a nutrition and sport science expert so I doubt this was a finely executed Duffin/Sapir/Carroll type cut.

Frankly, I'd think the healthier thing is to have weigh ins further out and maybe put a night-of cap in place. So, say you have to weigh in at 168 3 days before the fight, but still must step in the ring at 180 or 185. I really thing weight is overblown as a factor in safety within reason. Some larger guys are weaker and hit with less force than smaller guys. It's a pretty poor proxy for dangerousness.
Its not just about punching power though in MMA. Having a dude 35 pounds heavier than you lay on top of you proves much harder to extract yourself from than a guy who is the same weight.
 

Marciano490

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Its not just about punching power though in MMA. Having a dude 35 pounds heavier than you lay on top of you proves much harder to extract yourself from than a guy who is the same weight.
Right, same as in boxing. Having a heavy dude lay on you and push you back against the ropes takes your legs. There's a difference, though, between it being harder to extract yourself and it being dangerous and the added weight carries disadvantages that play out in other aspects of the fight. It's a strategic choice oftentimes.
 

Gunfighter 09

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I am excited for this matchup, it is already fun as hell (see link below) and it is absolutely the right business decision by the UFC. But, I do feel bad for Cowboy, that perfect Triangle he threw on Saturday cost him this fight. There is no way Dana was letting him take Conor to the ground and submit him quickly.

http://www.ufc.com/news/re-live-the-ufc-196-press-conference-mcgregor-vs-diaz?utm_campaign=UFC&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=1456352511

fastforward to 25 minutes in to get past the promotionpalooza
 
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southshoresoxfan

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I am excited for this matchup, it is already fun as hell (see link below) and it is absolutely the right business decision by the UFC. But, I do feel bad for Cowboy, that perfect Triangle he threw on Saturday cost him this fight. There is no way Dana was letting him take Conor to the ground and submit him quickly.

http://www.ufc.com/news/re-live-the-ufc-196-press-conference-mcgregor-vs-diaz?utm_campaign=UFC&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=1456352511

fastforward to 25 minutes in to get past the promotionpalooza
Ah you're still in "Dana is protecting Conor" camp. Conor would have KOd No Show Cerrone in about 30 seconds. Moment would have been way too big for that idiot.
 

EvilEmpire

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Hype train?

And he's already lost before. Losing two weight classes above his title level isn't going to do anything for this "hype train".
C'mon, Diaz is a LW fighter. Conor and Diaz may fighting at 170, but I don't see that as nearly the same thing as fighting someone who cuts a bunch of weight to fight at 170.

I respect the hell out of Conor for taking the fight because if he somehow loses to Diaz, I don't see how he could possibly stay at the front of the line at LW to fight Dos Anjos for the title. So I think he's definitely risking a clearer, more direct path to a LW superfight for another belt.

It wouldn't end the hype for Conor because he creates his own, but yeah, the train probably slows down some.
 

Gunfighter 09

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Ah you're still in "Dana is protecting Conor" camp. Conor would have KOd No Show Cerrone in about 30 seconds. Moment would have been way too big for that idiot.
No, not in a general sense, not after they let him match up with RDA. I do think in this particular situation minimizing risk was part of Connor / Zuffa's equation for who the replacement would be. They were not going to throw him in against someone who would be likely to exploit his weaknesses with much diminished stakes and only 10 days to train for Conor. That would just be bad business, especially considering the Diaz brothers bring an independent audience of their own.

Conor is a great fighter, but he is the male equivalent of Rousey, in that he has an absolutely dominating set of skills, but there is also an easy to see gap in his game. You are correct, McGregor is a historically great killer on his feet and could knock out Cowboy in any exchange, even the initial one, but that doesn't change the fact that McGregor has extremely limited skills on the ground. He was pretty helpless (in that he couldn't stay on his feet, get off of his back or show any offensive competence from his guard) in the Mendes fight and was only able to escape when Mendes got greedy and threw a sloppy guillotine. When Connor loses next, it will be from getting taken to the mat by someone with high level JJ skills who will submit him quickly, in a fight that will look much like what Cerrone did to Cowboy Oliveira last Saturday.
 

rembrat

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"You fight midgets" - Nate Diaz 2016

Please please please let Nate end this hype train.
It's a shame this fight didn't have the usual 3 months build up because Conor would have set up shop inside Nate's tiny little head and Aldo'd him before fight night even arrived. And I LIKE the Diaz brothers.
 

mikeford

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It's a shame this fight didn't have the usual 3 months build up because Conor would have set up shop inside Nate's tiny little head and Aldo'd him before fight night even arrived. And I LIKE the Diaz brothers.
LOL, yeah okay.

You can't play mind games with Diaz, there's too much smoke to wade through.
 

Vinho Tinto

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Eh, he's already lost and being undefeated doesn't seem like such a big deal for male MMA fighters. Even Silva had a loss from way back when.

Plus, he's taking fights where he's not going to take crap for losing. He basically seems to be saying that he's going to go up and up till he's stopped.
A good example of this is Kevin Randleman. Yes, people will talk up the recently deceased; but it's clear that all of his contemporaries had massive amount of respect for a guy who finished his MMA career 17-16. It's because of his fighting style and willingness to take on anyone (Who else fights Rampage, Sakuraba, Cro Cop, and Fedor in 15 months?) What I like about MMA vs boxing is the record is not as important as the willingness to fight the very best. That's one reason why the fans love the Diaz brothers. Those two will fight anyone/anywhere. Compare the list of their fights to Tito Ortiz and it is night and day.
 

Phragle

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No, not in a general sense, not after they let him match up with RDA. I do think in this particular situation minimizing risk was part of Connor / Zuffa's equation for who the replacement would be. They were not going to throw him in against someone who would be likely to exploit his weaknesses with much diminished stakes and only 10 days to train for Conor. That would just be bad business, especially considering the Diaz brothers bring an independent audience of their own.

Conor is a great fighter, but he is the male equivalent of Rousey, in that he has an absolutely dominating set of skills, but there is also an easy to see gap in his game. You are correct, McGregor is a historically great killer on his feet and could knock out Cowboy in any exchange, even the initial one, but that doesn't change the fact that McGregor has extremely limited skills on the ground. He was pretty helpless (in that he couldn't stay on his feet, get off of his back or show any offensive competence from his guard) in the Mendes fight and was only able to escape when Mendes got greedy and threw a sloppy guillotine. When Connor loses next, it will be from getting taken to the mat by someone with high level JJ skills who will submit him quickly, in a fight that will look much like what Cerrone did to Cowboy Oliveira last Saturday.
We probably shouldn't say McGregor is the male Rousey
 

Marciano490

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A good example of this is Kevin Randleman. Yes, people will talk up the recently deceased; but it's clear that all of his contemporaries had massive amount of respect for a guy who finished his MMA career 17-16. It's because of his fighting style and willingness to take on anyone (Who else fights Rampage, Sakuraba, Cro Cop, and Fedor in 15 months?) What I like about MMA vs boxing is the record is not as important as the willingness to fight the very best. That's one reason why the fans love the Diaz brothers. Those two will fight anyone/anywhere. Compare the list of their fights to Tito Ortiz and it is night and day.
Very good point. Boxing, you take a loss, and it's a long time before you're back in contention. UFC you can lose and still be in a big PPV next time out.
 

rembrat

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I'm a quarter in to the press conference and it's all McGregor. To quote the great CM Punk: "I am the best on this microphone, in that ring, even in commentary! Nobody can touch me!"

 

Vinho Tinto

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Man, McGregor on the mic makes Ali look like Johnny Damon.
I've been saying that he is the best talking fighter since Ali. Floyd is the best at drumming up interest, but that is just as much about who he is and his lifestyle vs pure mic work.

Dave Meltzer on his podcast was saying WWE should take note of his promo style and incorporate it into their promos. I don't think he understands that you don't script or invent this level of charisma. McGregor perfectly pivoted on the steroid accusation and brought up Melendez and Shields testing positive (They and the Diazs fight under the Cesar Gracie Jiu-Jitsu banner).
 

mikeford

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I think Big Dave knows exactly what he's talking about.

He's saying WWE needs to give guys more freedom to actually be charismatic like Conor. Not script people to be like Conor.
 

Marciano490

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How many people in the world can do that, though? Plus be 220 pounds+ and athletic as hell?
 

Vinho Tinto

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I think Big Dave knows exactly what he's talking about.

He's saying WWE needs to give guys more freedom to actually be charismatic like Conor. Not script people to be like Conor.
Meltzer's comments can be very manic. I know he's made your general point in the past, but what you wrote is not what he said. He mentioned nothing about giving them freedom on the mic. He brought up McGregor's over the top personality and said that is what drives making money and the writers need to take note. That's a great idea, but you cannot force personality on to someone who is a lump (Roman Reigns). A worker has charisma or doesn't. The reality is that they factor in size and look just as much as charisma so they end up with some verbal liabilities. UFC has less wiggle room for building up who is and isn't a star. One reason Dana White is not a big fan of Jose Aldo is that he is such a stiff whenever he needs to promote a fight (In addition to cancelling every other bout he agrees to).
 

Marciano490

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I'd add too that, especially in the fight game, there are different types of charisma or badassery that sell fights. The best post fight interview I've seen in awhile was Kovalev's after beating the hell out of Pascal for the second time. Man has the charisma and charm of a stone and can't speak English all that well, but it's chilling as hell and made me even more of a fan for life. Same with WWE; I haven't watched in years, but I don't remember Undertaker or Kane having crazy mic skills, but they're personas were so towering and frightful you'd turn in to watch them.

 

GBA

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I'd add too that, especially in the fight game, there are different types of charisma or badassery that sell fights. The best post fight interview I've seen in awhile was Kovalev's after beating the hell out of Pascal for the second time. Man has the charisma and charm of a stone and can't speak English all that well, but it's chilling as hell and made me even more of a fan for life. Same with WWE; I haven't watched in years, but I don't remember Undertaker or Kane having crazy mic skills, but they're personas were so towering and frightful you'd turn in to watch them.

Thank you for that. I don't watch much boxing these days and just getting into mma, but I'd watch that guy fight anytime just based on that video.
 

Marciano490

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Go back and watch his fights. This dude is Tyson meets Ivan Drago. He knocks everyone the frick out and doesn't give a damn. He's as cold an assassin as I've seen in the ring since Hagler.
 

Curll

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Same with WWE; I haven't watched in years, but I don't remember Undertaker or Kane having crazy mic skills, but they're personas were so towering and frightful you'd turn in to watch them.
One is a zombie, the other is a demon. So, yeah, you can't take your eyes off of these 7-foot monsters. Finn Balor is the new hotness, but he's 5'10" and a total babe -- and also a demon king. Drago in Lucha Underground is literally a dragon. Mil Muertes sits on a throne of skulls of his victims. Lucha Underground actually features good fights.

BUT, more on topic to MMA, the Japanese have been integrating MMA into their strongstyle product for a while. And it results in two near-40 year olds just beating the ever living shit out of each other:


or two MMA-style submission specialists doing pretty amazing technical stuff in the ring:


None of the four can cut a promo. I..don't think, at least. Japanese wrestling doesn't have many promos.
 

Zomp

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They just accounced Cruz Vs Faber for UFC 199. Some awesome fights coming up...

197: DC vs Jones and Johnson vs Cejudo.

198: Werdum vs Miocic and Jacare vs Belfort

199: Rockhold vs Weidman and Cruz Vs Faber
 

Marciano490

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Why is Weidman getting a rematch? That wasn't a very close or compelling fight.
 

j44thor

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Anyone else think Diaz +400 is a decent bet? His reach is something I don't think Conor has experienced and Diaz has a big advantage on the ground. Crazy to think this is a coin flip with a lot of hype betting pushing the line?
 

Myt1

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And Nate Diaz comes off as the kid who stayed back in 6th grade four times.

I know some people here hate Conor, but that video really turned me off to Diaz. I hope he gets pummeled.
I can't stand either of the Diaz brothers. I have no idea how they keep getting fights.