Trading Jon Lester (news and speculation thread)
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KillerBs said:
I'm fairly sure that's not how supply and demand works. After he's traded the 8 interested teams don't get to split his starts at our expense.
If the Sox land 2 top flight prospects for Lester and then add Cecchini to that to send to Philly for Cole Hamels I could live with that.
But there should be multiple teams in the mix ...would should keep his value elevated...KillerBs said:
NomarRS05 said:
They will sign the best pitcher who will agree to a short-term deal. That won't be Scherzer.
It's simple. Long, expensive contracts for starting pitchers are huge gambles, and they only get bigger when the pitcher is over 30. They chose not to make that gamble. There's nothing bizarre about it.Rudy Pemberton said:
Toe Nash said:
We still have no definite idea what Lester's camp would have defined as "a pretty reasonable deal," so I'm reluctant to use this as a stick to beat the FO's head with.
I'm miserable about this too, but just because it sucks to lose him doesn't in itself mean the FO has fucked up.
Yeah, that's what it is.KillerBs said:
Take a deep breath and step away from the keyboard for a minute to regroup. He's not pitching tomorrow for one of two reasons - a deal is in place/imminent or they simply don't want to risk an injury to him before the deadline. Has NOTHING to do with them worrying about your outrage.
Could this have been handled better? Sure. Is it the end of the world? No. I think this group has earned the benefit of the doubt here before we start calling them cheap SOBs who are afraid of fan reaction.
Rudy Pemberton said:
Rudy Pemberton said:
They brought in the stopgap free agents before last season to at least field a competitive team. They far exceeded expectations. They needed to stay under the luxury tax limit while hoping that the Yankees would not share such restraint. They horded their prospects both to start transitioning to a younger lineup and stockpile assets for deals that they will make as soon as tomorrow and in the future. They have more young talent stockpiled at anytime I can remember since I first was vaguely aware of who Ted Williams was going back to 1959. To the extent that their minor league system contains no emerging impact talent to match the Jim Rice and Fred Lynn duo, they are clearly trying to accomplish this in an era where quick fixes involving game changing impact players in free agency are fewer and farther between.
I'm excited. We have owners who commit to a big payroll. We have a great front office. We have great scouts. We have an incredible farm system that's about to get better. We have young guys on the field. We have a great manager. We are taking advantage of a deadline when we are clearly out of contention, and we are playing multiple teams who have needs against each other. We have money coming off the books at the end of the season and no crazy bad contracts. In fact, we have Lackey for 500k next year. It's great to be a Red Sox fan.
Lester has been terrific as a Red Sox. I will always be grateful for the years we had him.
Bring on the future.
Lester has been terrific as a Red Sox. I will always be grateful for the years we had him.
Bring on the future.
It's a cruel world. What have you done for us lately? It's a different story if they are in contention this year or 2012 didn't happen. The collapse of a World Series champion and the mishandling of the Lester situation is a tough nut to absorb.Snodgrass'Muff said:
The FO messed this up. There can't be enough criticism on how they handled this and the first to worst is historic.
They are going to take a hit.
If that's the actual plan, you almost have to admire them for sticking to their principles.DrewDawg said:
How they are going to build next year's staff is another thing.
tomdeplonty said:
Especially given how low the morale will be among the dwindling number of legitimate major league players still on the roster.
This stinks and it sucks and it stinks. Homegrown pitcher that you work through all the growing pains with, he pitches better than ever, and now you let him go when he is on the verge of being among the three or four best pitchers in the game for the next three years because you are afraid the last year on on a five year contract may not be worth it? What about the first four years on the contract? Think they will be worth it when he is some other team's ace, pitching like the stud who wins world championships? This is horrendous.
In the meantime this team with this income refuses to pay its best pitcher what he is worth. Ridiculous. For this team in this market with its income streams to refuse to pay for an ace is absurd. Think Scherzer is gonna sign cheap? Aces dont grow on trees. When you buy them of the open market tehuy are expensive, too expensive for this suddenly cheap team to pay for. Aces are home grown. But this team thinks that just as they are about to rocket into their best four years, they will let them go. Ridiculous.
I hate this. Hate this. I dont care what they get for Lester. You just don't get rid of aces like this.
In the meantime this team with this income refuses to pay its best pitcher what he is worth. Ridiculous. For this team in this market with its income streams to refuse to pay for an ace is absurd. Think Scherzer is gonna sign cheap? Aces dont grow on trees. When you buy them of the open market tehuy are expensive, too expensive for this suddenly cheap team to pay for. Aces are home grown. But this team thinks that just as they are about to rocket into their best four years, they will let them go. Ridiculous.
I hate this. Hate this. I dont care what they get for Lester. You just don't get rid of aces like this.
"Can't pony up" and won't pony up are two different things. With or without Lester, the payroll next year will probably be about the same. You can disagree with the move and argue that whatever money is spent is better off going to Lester, but I assume the Sox will still spend plenty of money on next year's team, they just might spend it differently than you (and I and others) would like.RedOctober3829 said:
In other words, I don't think we can call them cheap.
Batting Stance Guy @BattingStanceG
Jon Lester scratched from Wed start. Rays wondering if he thinks he's bigger than the game, like, show's all about him.
Jon Lester scratched from Wed start. Rays wondering if he thinks he's bigger than the game, like, show's all about him.
Snodgrass'Muff said:
They have one playoff appearance in the past 5 years, and a lot of the people that put together those 2004 and 2007 teams are now working for other organizations. One of them, the one who signed the MVP of the 2007 World Series, is currently the GM of the Orioles.
That's the part of the plan we all see, but what about the plan to field a championship contending team while adhering to the over-30 limit. The team knew exactly when Lester was turning 30 and the arm-rich farm doesn't have a replacement in waiting, where is the adapt to reality portion of the plan?DrewDawg said:
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Plympton91 said:
Currently being the key word. Lester and a bag of balls gets Duquette tomorrow.
Seriously, this is the kind thing we used to make fun of Yankees fans about.
I'd be very surprised if Hamels is moved. The Phillies are living in fantasy land when incomes to trade proposals recently.Plympton91 said:
For days, the board has been in various of the Five Stages of Losing Your Ace Left-Hander.
Denial: "He said he'd take a hometown discount! 5/110 will easily get it done!"
Anger: e.g., Norm Seibern.
Bargaining: "We'll deal him to the Dodgers, get their three best prospects, keep Lackey so Lester wants to come back to Boston, and pay whatever he asks..."
Depression: Most of us.
Acceptance: e.g., shepard50
Denial: "He said he'd take a hometown discount! 5/110 will easily get it done!"
Anger: e.g., Norm Seibern.
Bargaining: "We'll deal him to the Dodgers, get their three best prospects, keep Lackey so Lester wants to come back to Boston, and pay whatever he asks..."
Depression: Most of us.
Acceptance: e.g., shepard50
That better mean he's backfilling RF in Pittsburgh and not heading this way.RedOctober3829 said:
If only Clay and Felix weren't so empty between the ears and were up to the opportunity, the events about to unfold would actually make sense.
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Norm Siebern said:
It was doom and gloom every time that the Sox lost a Clemens (steroids skewed that one), a Nomar or a Pedro. Without steroids distorting the rest of Clemens's career, the Sox turned out to be right about the aging decline for each of these icons. They won world championships after each of them departed. The Punto trade proved that the Sox should be just fine after a prospective Lester trade. They won another championship after that. With the right amount of patience allowing the rising crop of studs to adjust to the majors, the Sox will be young world series contenders again before long.
They dont need to do this. This team makes enough money and has a strong enough revenue stream that it can sign Lester AND add more talent. Young talent. This is not the Kansas City Royals. Where is teh next avce? Maybe, maybe one of the next group of pitchers will eventually grow into that ace, say in five or six years, which is what it took Lester. But why replace what you dont have to replace? Why not keep Lester, resign him to what he is worth, AND let that young pitching talent develop around him. Ridiculous.
I could understand this if the Red Sox were losing money, and they could not afford to keep him. Does anyone for a second think the Red Sox are losing money? That they cant afford to keep him? Bullshit.
All that young talent, blosoming before our eyes will be wasted because they will still need someone to pitch the first and last games of the playoffs. And if they think they are going to go buy one (Scherzer), he wil cost a helluva lot more than Lester.
Penny wise and pound fooish. Have Buddy Leroux and Haywood Sullivan regained control of the club? Seems like it.
I could understand this if the Red Sox were losing money, and they could not afford to keep him. Does anyone for a second think the Red Sox are losing money? That they cant afford to keep him? Bullshit.
All that young talent, blosoming before our eyes will be wasted because they will still need someone to pitch the first and last games of the playoffs. And if they think they are going to go buy one (Scherzer), he wil cost a helluva lot more than Lester.
Penny wise and pound fooish. Have Buddy Leroux and Haywood Sullivan regained control of the club? Seems like it.
I don't get all that worked up over the business of baseball anymore, but man if/when Lester is gone I'm going to be thoroughly bummed out.
I get the M.O. of not wanting to sign pitchers to long-ish term deals, but would a worst case scenario of a couple years of less than ideal value from Lester really cripple this franchise? Especially with all of the cost-controlled young talent they have slated to make significant contributions over the next few years?
This is really gonna piss me off.
I get the M.O. of not wanting to sign pitchers to long-ish term deals, but would a worst case scenario of a couple years of less than ideal value from Lester really cripple this franchise? Especially with all of the cost-controlled young talent they have slated to make significant contributions over the next few years?
This is really gonna piss me off.
Which will cost them more tha what it would cost to resign what they alraedy have.DrewDawg said:
This makes no sense, fiscally or otherwise. None.
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