Toucher and Rich --- Everyone Else Has Some Work To Do

Helmet Head

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How many times are they going to beat a dead horse with this bit? It’s starting to be like the drunken Red Sox recap.
If you can’t listen to that bit they did today (belichick fart & fart machine) without laughing, maybe this show isn’t for you. Because it was pretty good radio.
 

JCizzle

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That was an all timer.

I thought the Brad Stevens interview today was great as well.
Yeah I thought Stevens was great as well. No idea why Fred was grouchy(ish) after it ended. There’s no way Danny would talk about an active player’s family either.
 

Granite Sox

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Eh… I don’t think Fred was joking around. PBS is obviously a little stiffer than Ainge, but we’ve known that for 8 years. Fred is trying to “crack” him, but Stevens a) will comport himself professionally because it’s the right thing to do, and b) has a really dry sense of humor, one that Fred is still trying to figure out how to play off of with his own neurotic sarcasm.
 

NDame616

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I don't think they were trying to crack him. The Ainge/Stevens interviews always have those questions in there a almost a running joke that the guys know they can't answer.

I think he opened up the interview with something like "So when will Ben Simmons join the team?" or something like that
 

onthereg527

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Nov 16, 2021
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Ted Johnson just brings nothing to the table. I know he has a strained relationship with Belichick and the Pats organization, but every Tuesday when he is on, it's always not-so-thinly veiled criticisms. This is the guy who, a few weeks ago, insinuated that the relationship between Judon and BB was strained because Judon was working on special teams a little bit. This morning, Rich mentioned that some have compared this season to the 01 season and Ted just basically laughed it off, despite the amount of similarities that there really are. The only thing he agreed on was both teams started 1-3 and got better as the season went on. Wow, what expert analysis.

And Fred (who I love, don't get me wrong) is so anti-Pats, and while yes, I know that's part of his shtick, and he's a Jets fan, it's become even more passive aggressive than normal. He convinced himself the Pats were going to be awful. He was out yesterday, he is back today and does the whole 'Patriots are good, they should be a playoff team' thing he's been doing, but his tone is such that it's super dismissive of anyone who actually does believe in this Pats team a bit, especially with how weak the AFC is looking right now. I'm rambling a bit here, but Tuesday mornings with Ted and Fred (hey I rhymed!) kind of suck for me. Anyone else feel the same?
 

hube

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Apr 4, 2010
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100% agree on Ted Johnson - I can't stand him. The Judon/BB stuff was laughable. It doesn't seem like he has any inside info, he's not entertaining in the way Brandon Merriweather was, and he's constantly pushing that anti-BB agenda (which, to be fair, has some merit - but it makes him a worse guest for it)
 

onthereg527

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Nov 16, 2021
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Ok good, I'm glad it wasn't just me that picked up on this. I also just did a dive into Ted's Twitter (no clue why) and he said the other day if the Pats don't win the division it will be a 'major disappointment'. I hate shit like this, when 'pundits' are already setting teams up for failure. Really, if the Pats don't win the division (with a rookie f'n QB), it's a 'major disappointment'? Really?!
 

Over Guapo Grande

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Ok good, I'm glad it wasn't just me that picked up on this. I also just did a dive into Ted's Twitter (no clue why) and he said the other day if the Pats don't win the division it will be a 'major disappointment'. I hate shit like this, when 'pundits' are already setting teams up for failure. Really, if the Pats don't win the division (with a rookie f'n QB), it's a 'major disappointment'? Really?!
He also probably picked them to go 6-11 and finish behind the Bills and 'Phins before the season started.
 

Bigdogx

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Jul 21, 2020
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Ok good, I'm glad it wasn't just me that picked up on this. I also just did a dive into Ted's Twitter (no clue why) and he said the other day if the Pats don't win the division it will be a 'major disappointment'. I hate shit like this, when 'pundits' are already setting teams up for failure. Really, if the Pats don't win the division (with a rookie f'n QB), it's a 'major disappointment'? Really?!
Nope not just you, and i hate it because Ted was a favorite of mine as a player but his constant negativity and salty hatred of Bill Belichick is just f'ing tiresome at this point!
 

Lippa

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Jul 14, 2005
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Nope not just you, and i hate it because Ted was a favorite of mine as a player but his constant negativity and salty hatred of Bill Belichick is just f'ing tiresome at this point!
The anti-BB stuff from Ted can get a bit tiresome, but if you can separate that out from the rest of his analysis, he’s been pretty spot on.

While I love Fred, his constant need to bury the Pats has become obnoxious. He latches on to the slightest negative report and trumpets it as the unassailable truth. Bert Breer mentions on the show somewhat in passing that he’s heard grumblings that some players have been surprised by the environment in the organization, and Fred turns that into “we’re hearing all these reports of locker room issues” that he brings up with every guest. It’s similar to how he keeps trying to push his narrative about how they’ve screwed up the rebuild because they went all in on free agency.

Overall he’s a really good host. Even the Pats-hating stuff would be entertaining if there were anyone at all capable of pushing back even a little. Unfortunately, Rich just doesn’t have a nuanced enough understanding of sports to offer up more than a surface level argument, and Wallach has decided he’s more interested in kissing Fred’s ass than challenging anything he says. If there were ever a way they could replace Wallach with someone like Keefe, it would take the show to a whole new level.

As for Joe Murray, just a complete disaster. He’s trying to make his bones by being the hot take guy, but every time someone calls him out on his ridiculous nonsense, he turns into a whiny baby and throws himself up on the cross.
 

onthereg527

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Nov 16, 2021
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How about Fred recently saying a good comparison to Mac would be Kirk Cousins someday, like he might get to that level. As if anyone who knows anything about football wouldn’t he disappointed if the best Mac ends up being is a Cousins comparison. Just the way he said it was so condescending.
 

dirtynine

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I do think it’s funny how Fred keeps trotting out the “you don’t understand, I’ve been a fan of mediocre teams all my life, this is what they do” line. Sounded great at 2-4, not so much when the team is surging and clearly showing improvement.

At times it seems like everybody on the show is balancing his irrational pessimism by being “normal”; just once I want somebody to go back at him irrationally in the other direction. I would love nothing more for somebody to say “the Pats will virtually always be a good to great team. They’ll never be the Jets or the Lions, so your experience with mediocre organizations isn’t remotely relevant. They’re going to have a successful year because of those insane free agent signings, which are working out perfectly, and they’re simultaneously transitioning to a new young core through the draft. They’re gonna have it both ways, and last year will be the only evidence there was ever a blip. Oh, and Mac is trending to be better than Brady, Lawrence would go #2 today, and Wilson would go undrafted. Honestly, it must suck rooting for other teams.”
 

onthereg527

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Nov 16, 2021
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Yeah he kept trotting out that line pretty often the first six weeks of the season. “This is what you are now” etc. etc. And at 2-4 it might have looked that way. But that’s not who this team is. And it honestly bothers him SO much.
 

onthereg527

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Nov 16, 2021
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Also this morning, Fred's new thing is referring to Stevenson as 'the next Earl Campbell' and Mac as future Super Bowl MVP.
 

8slim

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See, I'm enjoying Fred's increasingly desperate Pats takes. The guy thought he FINALLY was going to be able to get through a bunch of seasons where the Pats were just another franchise. And yet, there's a good chance that the Pats have found their QB, hit on a bunch of free agents, developed several starters via the draft, and will be a playoff team 1 season removed from Brady's departure. It's killing Fred, and I'm here for it.
 

NortheasternPJ

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See, I'm enjoying Fred's increasingly desperate Pats takes. The guy thought he FINALLY was going to be able to get through a bunch of seasons where the Pats were just another franchise. And yet, there's a good chance that the Pats have found their QB, hit on a bunch of free agents, developed several starters via the draft, and will be a playoff team 1 season removed from Brady's departure. It's killing Fred, and I'm here for it.
I’m not positive the Pats make the playoffs but Fred dug in so hard on they handled the offseason completely wrong and should have rebuilt it the “right way” by sucking and developing young guys only. Now the Pats don’t suck, the young guys are developing around the free agents. Bill mostly hit on the FA class and the Jets are now stuck going into year 3 of their 20th rebuild.
 

Bigdogx

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Jul 21, 2020
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I’m not positive the Pats make the playoffs but Fred dug in so hard on they handled the offseason completely wrong and should have rebuilt it the “right way” by sucking and developing young guys only. Now the Pats don’t suck, the young guys are developing around the free agents. Bill mostly hit on the FA class and the Jets are now stuck going into year 3 of their 20th rebuild.
I think that has a lot to do with it, Wilson is no doubt just another spoke in the wheel of mediocre QB's for the Jets franchise.
 

RedOctober3829

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Yeah, I thought the Bruins rant was pretty reasonable. Certainly better than Jaffe's take (or lack thereof).
There really wasn't some big splash move Sweeney could've done outside of bringing Hall back. The only gripe was that they possibly could've brought someone like Danault in, but they used their cap space to bring back Hall and get a starting goalie. The big improvements they needed to make were to the bottom 6 and on defense. There wasn't much in terms of quality defensemen available and I thought they did a decent job in bringing guys like Foligno, Haula, and Nosek in.
 

JCizzle

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There really wasn't some big splash move Sweeney could've done outside of bringing Hall back. The only gripe was that they possibly could've brought someone like Danault in, but they used their cap space to bring back Hall and get a starting goalie. The big improvements they needed to make were to the bottom 6 and on defense. There wasn't much in terms of quality defensemen available and I thought they did a decent job in bringing guys like Foligno, Haula, and Nosek in.
IIRC, his primary argument was that the investment in Ullmark was misplaced - specifically the number of years considering they have Swayman and may have Rask available by the playoffs.
 

RedOctober3829

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IIRC, his primary argument was that the investment in Ullmark was misplaced - specifically the number of years considering they have Swayman and may have Rask available by the playoffs.
You truly don't know if Swayman will be a franchise-type goalie or a flash in the pan like Carter Hart. I understand why Sweeney was protecting against the second outcome. As far as Rask goes, I mean I guess he may come back but what if he chooses not to? What if his hip doesn't hold up? Pinning your hopes on that is kind of foolish IMO.

It felt like Fred just wanted to argue for argument's sake.
 

NickEsasky

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Right but like I said previously, the reason they were left with only free agency as an option to improve the team is that they have almost no desirable prospects to package in a trade. That's on Sweeney too.
 

NickEsasky

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100%. My beef with his rant is that there wasn't like there was all these difference makers in FA to get and Sweeney whiffed.
This is totally fair. I didn't even hear the rant, my point was more that Sweeney certainly deserves criticism, and historically T&R are very pro-Bruins.
 

dirtynine

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I listen to the podcast and I’m catching Wednesday hour 1. Fred just “cautioned” Wallach about ass-kissing. I’ll assume he’s back reading the thread here, so I’ll just say, DA Fetish guy is one of my favorite comic creations of all time.
 

Granite Sox

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Fred back to his confirmation bias regarding Jones... today is a Groundhog Day show all around with Fart Court (though the Whoopi Goldberg explosion was rather jarring). All that's missing so far is Brookline 9-1-1.
 

NortheasternPJ

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Fred back to his confirmation bias regarding Jones... today is a Groundhog Day show all around with Fart Court (though the Whoopi Goldberg explosion was rather jarring). All that's missing so far is Brookline 9-1-1.
Probably because yesterday they had a ton of guests so they were backed up.
 

onthereg527

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Nov 16, 2021
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Ok, so I just had to jump in this thread after the rant Fred just went on (despite him saying several times 'I don't want to do this'). To recap:

1 - Mac's success this season is not surprising at all because he had the highest floor of any of the other rookie quarterbacks.
2 - Mac's completion percentage is only high because "most" of his passes are less than five yards (he cited an article that the dummy Dan Lifshatz sent him).
3 - Mac doesn't have the ceiling that other rookie quarterbacks do because if the Pats were down 17-0 he wouldn't be able to lead them back (he said this is why Mahomes is the best).
4 - Mac could still be the second best quarterback in this draft, but that would be simply because 'the other quarterbacks did not reach their potential.'

Yikes. This was really really bad.
 

RedOctober3829

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Ok, so I just had to jump in this thread after the rant Fred just went on (despite him saying several times 'I don't want to do this'). To recap:

1 - Mac's success this season is not surprising at all because he had the highest floor of any of the other rookie quarterbacks.
2 - Mac's completion percentage is only high because "most" of his passes are less than five yards (he cited an article that the dummy Dan Lifshatz sent him).
3 - Mac doesn't have the ceiling that other rookie quarterbacks do because if the Pats were down 17-0 he wouldn't be able to lead them back (he said this is why Mahomes is the best).
4 - Mac could still be the second best quarterback in this draft, but that would be simply because 'the other quarterbacks did not reach their potential.'

Yikes. This was really really bad.
Nothing about the fact that the reason he didn't go down the field early in the season is because the offensive line didn't give him enough time to do so.
 

Helmet Head

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I don’t really blame Fred. He is a miserable Jets fan that has been tormented by the Pats and their fans since he came to Boston from Atlanta in 2006. Brady finally leaves and he feels like he can rejoice. He will do just about anything to downplay the fact that the Pats may have found something in Mac because he cannot fathom the thought of it being true and the continued tormenting.

I mean, can you imagine being a Jets fan doing sports radio in Boston during the Brady Bill run? It would for sure wane on just about anyone.
 

DisgruntledSoxFan77

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I don’t really blame Fred. He is a miserable Jets fan that has been tormented by the Pats and their fans since he came to Boston from Atlanta in 2006. Brady finally leaves and he feels like he can rejoice. He will do just about anything to downplay the fact that the Pats may have found something in Mac because he cannot fathom the thought of it being true and the continued tormenting.

I mean, can you imagine being a Jets fan doing sports radio in Boston during the Brady Bill run? It would for sure wane on just about anyone.
I don’t feel like he’s done this at all, everything I’ve ever heard him say has been him saying that they have their quarterback.
 

Hendu and Spike

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I don’t really blame Fred. He is a miserable Jets fan that has been tormented by the Pats and their fans since he came to Boston from Atlanta in 2006. Brady finally leaves and he feels like he can rejoice. He will do just about anything to downplay the fact that the Pats may have found something in Mac because he cannot fathom the thought of it being true and the continued tormenting.

I mean, can you imagine being a Jets fan doing sports radio in Boston during the Brady Bill run? It would for sure wane on just about anyone.

Why exactly is Fred a Jets fan? Didn't he grow up in Michigan?
 

onthereg527

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Nov 16, 2021
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I don’t feel like he’s done this at all, everything I’ve ever heard him say has been him saying that they have their quarterback.
Technically yes, he says something along those lines, that the Pats have their quarterback. But it's incredibly backhanded. For example - are you really saying a team has 'found' their quarterback if you keep insisting that that player's ceiling isn't particularly high, especially in comparison with those taken ahead of him (despite 10 weeks of evidence to the contrary so far)?