This is now: BB and the direction of the Patriots

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BaseballJones

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I want the team to get a high draft pick and snag a top WR and top QB (and serious OL help as well). I want the injured players on defense to return healthy next year. I want BB to do his best coaching job and I want the Pats to be that "last to first" team that pops up seemingly every year.

That's what I want.
 

Silverdude2167

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I want the team to get a high draft pick and snag a top WR and top QB (and serious OL help as well). I want the injured players on defense to return healthy next year. I want BB to do his best coaching job and I want the Pats to be that "last to first" team that pops up seemingly every year.

That's what I want.
I like you.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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If they had stayed healthy, maybe, but you're severely overestimating the rest of the roster (besides Mac) which is broadly shitty at this point particularly at WR, OT, DE, and CB.
Guys are open and Mac has time. We saw pressure today but he had many many plays where he had plenty of time. They gavehim a good running game too which should have loosened up the defense for him.

He did NOTHING.

The rest of the roster isn't as bad as it's being portrayed. The QB is making everyone on the team look infinitely worse.
 

heavyde050

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I want the team to get a high draft pick and snag a top WR and top QB (and serious OL help as well). I want the injured players on defense to return healthy next year. I want BB to do his best coaching job and I want the Pats to be that "last to first" team that pops up seemingly every year.

That's what I want.
That is definitely a possibility. I hope it happens.
 

Mystic Merlin

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Kenny Powers thinks this is great for BB, he gets a shot at a real QB. Or something. I'm taking a break from this board and letting you eat yourselves while this team falls off a cliff. They are doing more on the field than I can do on a message board to make my point. I'll see y'all in the offseason.

BB will be gone in the offseason, it will be interesting times around here.

PS. I'll come back if he gets fired in the bye week. Won't happen, but in the off chance it does, I'll have to say something. Peace.
View: https://youtu.be/qHWvFrIR4s8?si=cUf1SERCA3LVMZSs
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Kenny Powers thinks this is great for BB, he gets a shot at a real QB. Or something. I'm taking a break from this board and letting you eat yourselves while this team falls off a cliff. They are doing more on the field than I can do on a message board to make my point. I'll see y'all in the offseason.

BB will be gone in the offseason, it will be interesting times around here.

PS. I'll come back if he gets fired in the bye week. Won't happen, but in the off chance it does, I'll have to say something. Peace.
This isn’t a fucking train station.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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The defense flew across the Atlantic and held the opposition to 10 points despite being terribly banged up.

The Pats outgained and outpossessed the Colts by wide margins today despite missing their starting LT due to their running game.

It was the idiotic play of the QB that cost them the game today. Turnover-worthy play after turnover-worthy play on drive after drive.

The talent may not be overwhelming on the roster but it is there. There's one guy who doesn't belong in the NFL who is killing the team.
 

Toe Nash

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Doubt it. He’s been benched several times already this year. What makes this most recent benching any different?
I think they were benchings, but ostensibly the previous ones were because they were way behind and there was no reason to play the starter any longer. This benching was different because the drive was for the game.
 

Justthetippett

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Aug 9, 2015
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I want the team to get a high draft pick and snag a top WR and top QB (and serious OL help as well). I want the injured players on defense to return healthy next year. I want BB to do his best coaching job and I want the Pats to be that "last to first" team that pops up seemingly every year.

That's what I want.
That'd be fun and we'd all forget about this year pretty quick. It will take BB eating some humble pie though. He's always been a ruthless evalutor. Time to turn that lens on himself and make adjustments if he wants to continue. (Oh and Mac throwing iceballs in Siberia, far away from Foxborough).
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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All of this is touting the defense and saying he drafted a QB and it didn't work out. So, like, just let him try again. You're wrong in this assessment.
Or, like, analyzing the players he had the ability to draft/sign the last 3 seasons and highlighting that there have been very few options in the draft and none in free agency.

Or, yeah. Your thing. Whatever you're saying.
 

Steve Dillard

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Shouldn’t we change the thread title to “BB and the Patriots moving backwards “? I see no forward progress
 

BaseballJones

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So here's the thing....

When Brady left, a lot of folks here wanted the Pats to just tank for a year or two, reset, and then use those draft picks to build the next great team. The vast, vast, vast majority of teams that exit a great stretch end up going through this significant down period before bouncing back. Usually it lasts a really long time, but whatever, people here were willing to bite the bullet and get the bad stuff over with.

Well, the Pats didn't do that. They tried to remain competitive as they rebuilt. And for three years they were mediocre - remaining pretty competitive and even making the playoffs once.

But now they're a disaster. Which is...kind of what a lot of Pats fans wanted them to be RIGHT OUT OF THE GATE following Brady's departure. So this is what a lot of people wanted - it's just coming after a few years when the Pats tried to rebuild while remaining competitive.

So let's embrace the suck. Let's say ok this approach didn't work (I mean, they did remain kind of competitive, but clearly it hasn't led to this next great team), and now it's time to embrace being bad, embrace the thing that a lot of Pats fans wanted from the start.

So now it's time for that. I'm here for it. Bring it on. We had the most glorious run in sports history. It's over. We suck. (AGAIN. I was here for the awful 2-14 and 1-15 teams that preceded Kraft) So let's get this rebuild done the way everyone else does it. Let's get high draft picks, draft some studs, get a new QB, and let's do it.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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I think the concern is that they are terrible, while trying to be good. Doesn’t give me a lot of faith that they can suddenly identify, acquire, and coach up the right players when trying to be good again.

If they were tanking because they were trying to, that would feel different. This wasn’t sold as a rebuilding year.
 

BaseballJones

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I think the concern is that they are terrible, while trying to be good. Doesn’t give me a lot of faith that they can suddenly identify, acquire, and coach up the right players when trying to be good again.

If they were tanking because they were trying to, that would feel different. This wasn’t sold as a rebuilding year.
I get it. I'm just saying that I wanted them to try to be competitive as they rebuilt. They kinda were, but now aren't, and so I'm embracing them being bad in the hopes that this gets them the draft picks they need to relaunch.
 

Justthetippett

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Aug 9, 2015
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So here's the thing....

When Brady left, a lot of folks here wanted the Pats to just tank for a year or two, reset, and then use those draft picks to build the next great team. The vast, vast, vast majority of teams that exit a great stretch end up going through this significant down period before bouncing back. Usually it lasts a really long time, but whatever, people here were willing to bite the bullet and get the bad stuff over with.

Well, the Pats didn't do that. They tried to remain competitive as they rebuilt. And for three years they were mediocre - remaining pretty competitive and even making the playoffs once.

But now they're a disaster. Which is...kind of what a lot of Pats fans wanted them to be RIGHT OUT OF THE GATE following Brady's departure. So this is what a lot of people wanted - it's just coming after a few years when the Pats tried to rebuild while remaining competitive.

So let's embrace the suck. Let's say ok this approach didn't work (I mean, they did remain kind of competitive, but clearly it hasn't led to this next great team), and now it's time to embrace being bad, embrace the thing that a lot of Pats fans wanted from the start.

So now it's time for that. I'm here for it. Bring it on. We had the most glorious run in sports history. It's over. We suck. (AGAIN. I was here for the awful 2-14 and 1-15 teams that preceded Kraft) So let's get this rebuild done the way everyone else does it. Let's get high draft picks, draft some studs, get a new QB, and let's do it.
+1. I think we convinced ourselves we were different after 2021 and the bloodletting is always painful (particularly when it seems unintentional, there's been no regime change, etc.) But this is the natural order of things. Lose 'em all the rest of the way and April will be fun.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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I get it. I'm just saying that I wanted them to try to be competitive as they rebuilt. They kinda were, but now aren't, and so I'm embracing them being bad in the hopes that this gets them the draft picks they need to relaunch.
Ah, gotcha. Yeah, might as well embrace the suck at this point.
 

MuppetAsteriskTalk

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So here's the thing....

When Brady left, a lot of folks here wanted the Pats to just tank for a year or two, reset, and then use those draft picks to build the next great team. The vast, vast, vast majority of teams that exit a great stretch end up going through this significant down period before bouncing back. Usually it lasts a really long time, but whatever, people here were willing to bite the bullet and get the bad stuff over with.

Well, the Pats didn't do that. They tried to remain competitive as they rebuilt. And for three years they were mediocre - remaining pretty competitive and even making the playoffs once.

But now they're a disaster. Which is...kind of what a lot of Pats fans wanted them to be RIGHT OUT OF THE GATE following Brady's departure. So this is what a lot of people wanted - it's just coming after a few years when the Pats tried to rebuild while remaining competitive.

So let's embrace the suck. Let's say ok this approach didn't work (I mean, they did remain kind of competitive, but clearly it hasn't led to this next great team), and now it's time to embrace being bad, embrace the thing that a lot of Pats fans wanted from the start.

So now it's time for that. I'm here for it. Bring it on. We had the most glorious run in sports history. It's over. We suck. (AGAIN. I was here for the awful 2-14 and 1-15 teams that preceded Kraft) So let's get this rebuild done the way everyone else does it. Let's get high draft picks, draft some studs, get a new QB, and let's do it.
I was actually disappointed when they went on the crazy FA spend a few years ago, but then ultimately got caught up in the excitement. Of course, we should all have remembered that the teams who "win" free agency frequently don't do great. But anyway, the issue I have with starting the suck now under Belichick is that by the time they are ready to compete again he is going to be legit very very old for a head coach and GM. Which is why it just makes sense to me to start completely over at the end of the season. Just hopefully we can move on without re-writing history and declaring that Bill actually sucked all along and Brady was responsible for all of the success.
 

8slim

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I get it. I'm just saying that I wanted them to try to be competitive as they rebuilt. They kinda were, but now aren't, and so I'm embracing them being bad in the hopes that this gets them the draft picks they need to relaunch.
I don’t see a lot of people here being mad that we’re awful. Maybe a few weeks ago, but seems like resignation has set in.

Now the debate is about who gets to rebuild this mess. I hate the thought of moving on from Bill. But it’s hard for me to argue that he’s unquestionably the right guy to do what needs to be done. Last time he did was 23 years ago.
 

BaseballJones

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I don’t see a lot of people here being mad that we’re awful. Maybe a few weeks ago, but seems like resignation has set in.

Now the debate is about who gets to rebuild this mess. I hate the thought of moving on from Bill. But it’s hard for me to argue that he’s unquestionably the right guy to do what needs to be done. Last time he did was 23 years ago.
Yeah he may not be the right guy. But I like him and it's my preference that he stays on and gets the job done. But in order of my preferences:

1. BB remains and the team turns around quickly into a successful, high-level NFL team again.
2. BB goes and another coach/GM turn things around quickly and the Pats soon are a successful, high-level NFL team again.
3. BB stays and the team is only mediocre or worse.
4. BB leaves and the team is only mediocre or worse.

Obviously the gap between 1/2 and 3/4 is enormous. I clearly would rather the team be great again (and soon!) than not, even if it could only be achieved by BB being gone. That is, I am a fan of the Patriots more than I'm a fan of Belichick. But I am ALSO a fan of Belichick, and if we could be successful, I'd rather it be with him, and if they're going to be mediocre, I'd still rather it be with him and maybe he could still get the record with the Pats (which I would like to see).
 

8slim

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Yeah he may not be the right guy. But I like him and it's my preference that he stays on and gets the job done. But in order of my preferences:

1. BB remains and the team turns around quickly into a successful, high-level NFL team again.
2. BB goes and another coach/GM turn things around quickly and the Pats soon are a successful, high-level NFL team again.
3. BB stays and the team is only mediocre or worse.
4. BB leaves and the team is only mediocre or worse.

Obviously the gap between 1/2 and 3/4 is enormous. I clearly would rather the team be great again (and soon!) than not, even if it could only be achieved by BB being gone. That is, I am a fan of the Patriots more than I'm a fan of Belichick. But I am ALSO a fan of Belichick, and if we could be successful, I'd rather it be with him, and if they're going to be mediocre, I'd still rather it be with him and maybe he could still get the record with the Pats (which I would like to see).
Yeah I’ve been saying that I’d have been fine with him skipping along with 8/9 wins so he could get the record by the end of next season.

But if we need to endure a couple of sub-6 win seasons (this year and next) then I think it’s silly to prioritize the record chase.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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We do have to consider that the job may be more attractive to other candidates now with the potential picks and the team bottoming out. It is kind of a natural break point.
 

Kull

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Having the break come right after this performance is very interesting. In the past it was a time to get healthy, work on the problem areas (usually stuff around the margins), and use the extra time to put together a plus game plan for the next opponent. This does not feel like that at all. There are likely going to be some serious long term strategy discussions going on. How much of that we see in the press is debatable, but to the extent that ownership decides to go all in on the tank versus Bill's take on that approach - well get your popcorn ready.
 

Seels

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I want the team to get a high draft pick and snag a top WR and top QB (and serious OL help as well). I want the injured players on defense to return healthy next year. I want BB to do his best coaching job and I want the Pats to be that "last to first" team that pops up seemingly every year.

That's what I want.
Yep. I don't think they've been embarrassing. They've been in all but 1-2 of the games. I'd much rather lose these close ones in a season they can't be competitive anyway.
 

FL4WL3SS

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I don't want to Fire BB but I also don't want to win anymore games this year.

If Kraft allows BB to suck this year, it will be a top 5 decision he has made as owner. Ofcourse others do not agree with this.
100% aligned with this. I hope they have had a very honest conversation about the situation and agreed that losing will get them back on track the fastest and the record at the end of the year won't be held against him.

They have to recognize at this point that Mac isn't good enough and the best thing to do is lose. If they come out and make the playoffs next year, all is forgotten and the Patriots will be back in the spotlight.
 

Salem's Lot

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Even if Belichick is the right guy to rebuild this, he will be 72 years old in April. So even if he could build them back into contention by (best case scenario) the 2025 season, he’s going to probably be too old to want to deal with everything that comes with that job anyway, and we’re back to square one looking for a new coach/GM.

IMO, it’s better to just cut the cord at the end of the season and bring in someone else to rebuild the franchise.
 

Ralphwiggum

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I can’t ever root for them to lose but I agree at this stage it is the best thing for them. Having said that, there is no part of Bill Belichick that is ever going to condone losing, explicitly or otherwise. The roster is so bad, particularly on offense, that it may not matter. But if Kraft told BB to do anything but try to prepare for and win the next game in the same way he’s done for 20+ years here I would expect BB to quit immediately.
 

Fenway_NS

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Nov 10, 2006
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I know we’re all trying to avoid harping on the same three topics here but it does feel like there are some on the board who have paid attention exclusively to the Patriots for the last 20 years, and not to the league as a whole. This board right now reeks of pure entitlement and I agree with the posters who have pointed out that we have spent 20 years making fun of the shitposting done on various other forums.

This is a league in which every team has good players (any given Sunday) and the Patriots are no exception and people calling this team devoid of talent are really overstating that. Look at the Texans, they’ve been no good for the last few years, even with Watson. They were abjectly terrible last season. They drafted a stud QB, again it’s a crapshoot on evaluation and if you don’t believe that go ask the folks in Carolina, and now they’re an exciting and competitive football team.
 

FL4WL3SS

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The defense flew across the Atlantic and held the opposition to 10 points despite being terribly banged up.

The Pats outgained and outpossessed the Colts by wide margins today despite missing their starting LT due to their running game.

It was the idiotic play of the QB that cost them the game today. Turnover-worthy play after turnover-worthy play on drive after drive.

The talent may not be overwhelming on the roster but it is there. There's one guy who doesn't belong in the NFL who is killing the team.
I'm convinced this is a playoff team with an average QB. Put Geno Smith on this team and they are .500

Mac Jones is absolute trash. I hated the draft pick when it happened and I was not convinced he was any good guys rookie year. Once the league caught onto him, he was toast. You can only win so many games with Vanilla offenses before the league catches on.

I know Zappe sucks, but it was pretty eye opening to see him spark the team last year in ways that Mac never could. I think he has sucked everything out of this team and if we had a decent backup, we'd be fighting for a playoff spot right now if Max had gotten replaced when he should have.
 

Toe Nash

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Yeah I have said it a few times here but the Evil Genius BB thing to do would have been to tank in 2020, when there were no / few fans in the stands and they had just lost the GOAT, and they had a bunch of dead cap money as well. Not to mention you had 5 good QB prospects available in the next draft. No one would have blamed him for putting out a bad team and trying to build for the next offseason, but that's not in his DNA at all and he's not going to do anything else than try to win every year even if it's the optimal thing for the franchise to lose.
 

rodderick

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I know we’re all trying to avoid harping on the same three topics here but it does feel like there are some on the board who have paid attention exclusively to the Patriots for the last 20 years, and not to the league as a whole. This board right now reeks of pure entitlement and I agree with the posters who have pointed out that we have spent 20 years making fun of the shitposting done on various other forums.

This is a league in which every team has good players (any given Sunday) and the Patriots are no exception and people calling this team devoid of talent are really overstating that. Look at the Texans, they’ve been no good for the last few years, even with Watson. They were abjectly terrible last season. They drafted a stud QB, again it’s a crapshoot on evaluation and if you don’t believe that go ask the folks in Carolina, and now they’re an exciting and competitive football team.
They're 2-8 bud, maybe give it a rest with the hand wringing.
 

NickEsasky

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I know we’re all trying to avoid harping on the same three topics here but it does feel like there are some on the board who have paid attention exclusively to the Patriots for the last 20 years, and not to the league as a whole. This board right now reeks of pure entitlement and I agree with the posters who have pointed out that we have spent 20 years making fun of the shitposting done on various other forums.

This is a league in which every team has good players (any given Sunday) and the Patriots are no exception and people calling this team devoid of talent are really overstating that. Look at the Texans, they’ve been no good for the last few years, even with Watson. They were abjectly terrible last season. They drafted a stud QB, again it’s a crapshoot on evaluation and if you don’t believe that go ask the folks in Carolina, and now they’re an exciting and competitive football team.
You don’t get extra points for winning some fan purity test. Everyone can see the product on the field and it’s really bad and worse really boring. If Bill was 55 we might be having a different discussion but the truth is he’s in his 70s and had admitted on multiple occasions he wants to just do what makes him happy these days re: coach with guys he likes and coach players he likes. Also, coaching professional football is an absolute grind. Now add GM duties to that. It’s a lot to but on a guy who’s gonna be 72 before next season.
 

8slim

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I know we’re all trying to avoid harping on the same three topics here but it does feel like there are some on the board who have paid attention exclusively to the Patriots for the last 20 years, and not to the league as a whole. This board right now reeks of pure entitlement and I agree with the posters who have pointed out that we have spent 20 years making fun of the shitposting done on various other forums.

This is a league in which every team has good players (any given Sunday) and the Patriots are no exception and people calling this team devoid of talent are really overstating that. Look at the Texans, they’ve been no good for the last few years, even with Watson. They were abjectly terrible last season. They drafted a stud QB, again it’s a crapshoot on evaluation and if you don’t believe that go ask the folks in Carolina, and now they’re an exciting and competitive football team.
Awesome, we’ve reached the “entitlement” stage. That was a fun few months on the Sox board.
 

Fenway_NS

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Nov 10, 2006
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Well my mistake, I thought this was a fan board and I’ve only watched every snap of every Patriots game played since 1999. I didn’t realize we had so many football experts that invalidate my amateur opinions. I hope you’re all paid handsomely by your respective team owners for all of the expertise you all bring to the table that I clearly do not have.
 

rodderick

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Well my mistake, I thought this was a fan board and I’ve only watched every snap of every Patriots game played since 1999. I didn’t realize we had so many football experts that invalidate my amateur opinions. I hope you’re all paid handsomely by your respective team owners for all of the expertise you all bring to the table that I clearly do not have.
You're chastising fans but can't handle blowback? Fun.
 

NickEsasky

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Well my mistake, I thought this was a fan board and I’ve only watched every snap of every Patriots game played since 1999. I didn’t realize we had so many football experts that invalidate my amateur opinions. I hope you’re all paid handsomely by your respective team owners for all of the expertise you all bring to the table that I clearly do not have.
No one questioned your fan bonafides. That’s what you were doing to other posters. The team has two wins and consistently can’t score. They also make dumb decisions and commit dumber penalties. They just are what their record and point differential say they are: a really really bad football team.

Your opinion is just as valid as anyone else’s but expect pushback when you come in here calling people entitled.
 

8slim

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Well my mistake, I thought this was a fan board and I’ve only watched every snap of every Patriots game played since 1999. I didn’t realize we had so many football experts that invalidate my amateur opinions. I hope you’re all paid handsomely by your respective team owners for all of the expertise you all bring to the table that I clearly do not have.
No man, we’ve only watched the Pats since the day Brady took over for Drew. You had us pegged.

No one here watched in the darkest days of the 60s, 70s, 80s or 90s. Just a bunch of entitled, only-Pats-watching people here
 

Ralphwiggum

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Entitlement is expecting the Pats to be good just because they are the Pats. Not being OK with a season like what we are witnessing itsn’t entitlement. It’s not being OK with a shitty product AND a team that seems to be heading in the wrong direction in Year 4 post GOAT.

It doesnt’ necessarily flow from there that BB should be fired, but the Krafts should not accept results like this just because BB is the coach. He gets more slack than pretty much anyone else in this situation, but he’s still ultimately accountable for the results on the field and as an owner you just can’t let the situation deteriorate to where 2-3 win seasons become the norm. I’m not sure we are there yet with BB but I don’t think any fan who is asking the question is “entitled”.
 

Andy Merchant

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I guess I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue.

I just think BB's hubris has finally caught up with him. Tom Brady isn't there anymore to bail him out and get to the AFC championship game with the late Reche Caldwell as the #1 receiver. He jerked Brady around during contract negotiations and allowed him to walk away with no potential replacement or transition plan in place. He signed the ghost of Cam Newton off the scrap heap, lucked into Mac Jones (even though it didn't work out), and then decided to make a couple of his cronies the offensive coordinators for Mac's second season after it looked like he had a shot at being a serviceable QB.

I'm ready to blow this thing up and start all over again. I just don't want to watch more games with a team that looks like it was assembled by Bobby Grier and coached by Rod Rust.
 
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