This is now: BB and the direction of the Patriots

[tims4wins]

The argument that we are holding one bad season against him or that things could get worse aren’t valid to me. While it’s true that they were an average team from 2020-2022, they are now 4 years post Brady and the franchise appears to be in significantly worse shape. Maybe things can be worse but this is the worst Pats team since the truly doom and gloom days of the early 90s. If we hire someone else maybe 2024-2027 look the same as this year, that’s entirely possible. But with BB at the helm I’m not particularly convinced that it will look much different even with him around. I don’t think any of this is entitlement . I thank him for everything and recognize that he was a huge part of the dynasty even if not quite as huge as I believed as of 4 years ago. It’s a roll of the dice to move on, but I’m ready to roll that dice. I understand that some people aren’t and I can understand and respect that opinion.

 

[Ed Hillel]

I'm

I'm convinced this is a playoff team with an average QB. Put Geno Smith on this team and they are .500

The injuries on defense probably would have screwed this team regardless, but I'm with you after the past month or so. I'm quite comforted that the issue really seems to be like 90% Mac Jones. If you put a top 5 QB on this team and had average injury luck on defense, I think it would be a legitimate Superbowl contender. I don't believe the rest of the offense is as much of a disaster as is thrown around when healthy.

This is life in the NFL, it's really just a giant QB shuffle.

 

[jsinger121]

The argument that we are holding one bad season against him or that things could get worse aren’t valid to me. While it’s true that they were an average team from 2020-2022, they are now 4 years post Brady and the franchise appears to be in significantly worse shape. Maybe things can be worse but this is the worst Pats team since the truly doom and gloom days of the early 90s. If we hire someone else maybe 2024-2027 look the same as this year, that’s entirely possible. But with BB at the helm I’m not particularly convinced that it will look much different even with him around. I don’t think any of this is entitlement . I thank him for everything and recognize that he was a huge part of the dynasty even if not quite as huge as I believed as of 4 years ago. It’s a roll of the dice to move on, but I’m ready to roll that dice. I understand that some people aren’t and I can understand and respect that opinion.

Agreed. Tom Landry got whacked. Don Shula got shoved out at the end. Chuck Noll hung on longer than he should have but the Rooney's didn't have the balls to get rid of him. Guess what great coaches lose their fastball. It happens to them all. People like Belichick don't change their ways after 30 years. It just doesn't happen. I'd rather just blow the entire thing out now than watch more of the same the next few years because I have zero faith he can turn this around at his age. And for everyone saying well he turned it around quick after a shitty season in 2000, the building blocks of really good talent were already in place from the Parcells era. He also won the lottery in the 6th round with Brady too who lets not forget was recommended by the late Dick Rehbein the Patriots QB coach at the time who pushed for them to draft Brady.

 

[Salem's Lot]

Agreed. Tom Landry got whacked. Don Shula got shoved out at the end. Chuck Noll hung on longer than he should have but the Rooney's didn't have the balls to get rid of him. Guess what great coaches lose their fastball. It happens to them all. People like Belichick don't change their ways after 30 years. It just doesn't happen. I'd rather just blow the entire thing out now than watch more of the same the next few years because I have zero faith he can turn this around at his age. And for everyone saying well he turned it around quick after a shitty season in 2000, the building blocks of really good talent were already in place from the Parcells era. He also won the lottery in the 6th round with Brady too who lets not forget was recommended by the late Dick Rehbein the Patriots QB coach at the time who pushed for them to draft Brady.

He also wasn’t 71 years old then. One way or another, his tenure in Foxboro is nearing the end anyway.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

The argument that we are holding one bad season against him or that things could get worse aren’t valid to me. While it’s true that they were an average team from 2020-2022, they are now 4 years post Brady and the franchise appears to be in significantly worse shape. Maybe things can be worse but this is the worst Pats team since the truly doom and gloom days of the early 90s. If we hire someone else maybe 2024-2027 look the same as this year, that’s entirely possible. But with BB at the helm I’m not particularly convinced that it will look much different even with him around. I don’t think any of this is entitlement . I thank him for everything and recognize that he was a huge part of the dynasty even if not quite as huge as I believed as of 4 years ago. It’s a roll of the dice to move on, but I’m ready to roll that dice. I understand that some people aren’t and I can understand and respect that opinion.

They whiffed on the franchise QB. All else flows from that.

The defense is good and plays hard, even with injuries. They have some good parts. If Mac was even halfway decent, this organization's future looks far more promising. But they whiffed on the QB and he's destroying everything they've tried to build. And that's on BB and that's OK to think it means his time here is done. I merely think that the fault lies with Mac for sucking so badly, but as you say others may differ.

If they have Geno Smith they are likely in the playoff picture today. Instead they have perhaps the worst QB in franchise history, given expectations, contract, and results.

 

[Van Everyman]

Agreed. Tom Landry got whacked. Don Shula got shoved out at the end. Chuck Noll hung on longer than he should have but the Rooney's didn't have the balls to get rid of him. Guess what great coaches lose their fastball. It happens to them all. People like Belichick don't change their ways after 30 years. It just doesn't happen. I'd rather just blow the entire thing out now than watch more of the same the next few years because I have zero faith he can turn this around at his age. And for everyone saying well he turned it around quick after a shitty season in 2000, the building blocks of really good talent were already in place from the Parcells era. He also won the lottery in the 6th round with Brady too who lets not forget was recommended by the late Dick Rehbein the Patriots QB coach at the time who pushed for them to draft Brady.

Fuck this stupid take. Parcels had been gone for 4 years when Belichick got hired. Brady wasn’t BRADY when he won that job. Hell, he didn’t even win that job. It was handed to him when the starter got injured and Belichick helped develop him.

As for “worse shape,” if anything we’re paying the price for trying to compete the year after Cam. At that point we were in better shape than we were Brady’s last year. Them Josh left and the wheels came off.

 

[Van Everyman]

They whiffed on the franchise QB. All else flows from that.

The defense is good and plays hard, even with injuries. They have some good parts. If Mac was even halfway decent, this organization's future looks far more promising. But they whiffed on the QB and he's destroying everything they've tried to build. And that's on BB and that's OK to think it means his time here is done. I merely think that the fault lies with Mac for sucking so badly, but as you say others may differ.

If they have Geno Smith they are likely in the playoff picture today. Instead they have perhaps the worst QB in franchise history, given expectations, contract, and results.

They “whiffed” on a #15 pick they gave up nothing for. Who was pretty good his first year. They got unlucky that Josh got his big second chance the next year – and “whiffed” on the OC plan in his absence.

Let’s stop with all the overly emotional takes. It sucks they are having a bad year. It’s not the end of the world or all due to hubris and incompetence as much as that may make some of us feel better. It’s a lot of things.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Let’s stop with all the overly emotional takes.

And give up show business?

 

[Pandemonium67]

No one here watched in the darkest days of the 60s, 70s, 80s or 90s.

Jim Nance! Babe Parilli! Gino! Nick Buoniconti and Bob Dee! Bring back the 60s!

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

They “whiffed” on a #15 pick they gave up nothing for. Who was pretty good his first year. They got unlucky that Josh got his big second chance the next year – and “whiffed” on the OC plan in his absence.

Let’s stop with all the overly emotional takes. It sucks they are having a bad year. It’s not the end of the world or all due to hubris and incompetence as much as that may make some of us feel better. It’s a lot of things.

I think you're misreading me a bit. Mac is a bust but I don't fault the pick at #15. It made sense at that spot. It simply hasn't worked out. That is on Mac. They have given him plenty of time and chances and he's fucked it all up.

Where I hold BB at fault is the extreme reluctance to move on from Mac as a starter this year. He should have been benched multiple games ago.

 

[IdiotKicker]

It comes down to this for me. You are going to have the most valuable draft capital in two decades this off-season. BB was trusted to do a rebuild for the last four years and things have gotten progressively worse since 2021. The question to ask is why to trust him with another rebuild when he has not proven capable in this cycle. I don’t think he has suddenly lost it because we know drafting is more art than science. But if someone had four years to rebuild post-Brady and this is the result, I’m not handing the keys to that person with the same setup just because they’ve had a chance in this exact situation just several years ago and we’re right back here now.

 

[joe dokes]

I dont think lookIng back is terribly interesting. It also seems not to be the thread subject.
Im ready for the Will Geer era.

 

[E5 Yaz]

I dont think lookIng back is terribly interesting. It also seems not to be the thread subject.
Im ready for the Will Geer era.
View attachment 73763

Imagine being Will Grier watching Jones and Zappe today and slowly coming to the realization that he couldn't beat out either of these guys

 

[Van Everyman]

I think you're misreading me a bit. Mac is a bust but I don't fault the pick at #15. It made sense at that spot. It simply hasn't worked out. That is on Mac. They have given him plenty of time and chances and he's fucked it all up.

Where I hold BB at fault is the extreme reluctance to move on from Mac as a starter this year. He should have been benched multiple games ago.

I think they didn’t have a better option. I also think Mac to be honest has tried really hard and probably done the right things in practice. And, I’d Bill is being honest, he probably doesn’t think all of Mac’s problems are all on him.

The terrible INT to Gesicki today is a good example.Yes it’s “all on Mac” – OL did its job, receiver is open. And Mac threw a turd on a throw he has made most of the time this year.

So what went wrong?

I’m guessing Mac’s internal clock is a mess due to the protection issues. He’s not used to Gesicki being open that much (see: what Gesicki’s poor route on last week’s backbreaking interception to Juju), again likely throwing his timing off. And then he rushes things and throws off his back foot. Rinse and repeat.

Is it fixable? I have no idea. Probably not. Certainly not this year. But has there been a better option? No.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Thing is, Mac had protection on that throw and a lot of it. If Mac is continually playing like the OL is not giving him time even when they are, that's entirely on Mac.

We saw BOB tear Mac a new asshole on the sidelines because he had two wide open options on the 3rd down play and didn't pull the trigger for either of them. That's also on Mac. At a certain point the player has to execute. And Mac hasn't done that at all.

 

[tims4wins]

They whiffed on the franchise QB. All else flows from that.

The defense is good and plays hard, even with injuries. They have some good parts. If Mac was even halfway decent, this organization's future looks far more promising. But they whiffed on the QB and he's destroying everything they've tried to build. And that's on BB and that's OK to think it means his time here is done. I merely think that the fault lies with Mac for sucking so badly, but as you say others may differ.

If they have Geno Smith they are likely in the playoff picture today. Instead they have perhaps the worst QB in franchise history, given expectations, contract, and results.

Did they actually whiff on the pick? No one had anything close to this thought when they were 9-4 heading into the 2021 bye. I have no ide what happened after that. I can’t 100% blame Patricia and Judge because the decline started in 2021, although Mac did have one more great game that season. I truly don’t understand. I know his footwork has never been great, his post-snap processing has never been great, but he put together a bunch of super productive games that year. And then he hasn’t really looked anything close to that guy since. I completely agree that he is a lost cause. That his footwork and processing will never be good enough, especially with his arm talent. He never improved and in fact regressed. I’m just not sure that the pick was a whiff. It’s obviously irrelevant at this point anyway.

It comes down to this for me. You are going to have the most valuable draft capital in two decades this off-season. BB was trusted to do a rebuild for the last four years and things have gotten progressively worse since 2021. The question to ask is why to trust him with another rebuild when he has not proven capable in this cycle. I don’t think he has suddenly lost it because we know drafting is more art than science. But if someone had four years to rebuild post-Brady and this is the result, I’m not handing the keys to that person with the same setup just because they’ve had a chance in this exact situation just several years ago and we’re right back here now.

Well said.

 

[tims4wins]

I think they didn’t have a better option. I also think Mac to be honest has tried really hard and probably done the right things in practice. And, I’d Bill is being honest, he probably doesn’t think all of Mac’s problems are all on him.

The terrible INT to Gesicki today is a good example.Yes it’s “all on Mac” – OL did its job, receiver is open. And Mac threw a turd on a throw he has made most of the time this year.

So what went wrong?

I’m guessing Mac’s internal clock is a mess due to the protection issues. He’s not used to Gesicki being open that much (see: what Gesicki’s poor route on last week’s backbreaking interception to Juju), again likely throwing his timing off. And then he rushes things and throws off his back foot. Rinse and repeat.

Is it fixable? I have no idea. Probably not. Certainly not this year. But has there been a better option? No.

No better option HAS to be on BB though. He knew what Zappe was. He should have brought in a Brissett or Minshew type as a backup.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Did they actually whiff on the pick? No one had anything close to this thought when they were 9-4 heading into the 2021 bye. I have no ide what happened after that. I can’t 100% blame Patricia and Judge because the decline started in 2021, although Mac did have one more great game that season. I truly don’t understand. I know his footwork has never been great, his post-snap processing has never been great, but he put together a bunch of super productive games that year. And then he hasn’t really looked anything close to that guy since. I completely agree that he is a lost cause. That his footwork and processing will never be good enough, especially with his arm talent. He never improved and in fact regressed. I’m just not sure that the pick was a whiff. It’s obviously irrelevant at this point anyway.

He played a run of cupcakes and racked up Ws. Once he faced real teams he lost games at an impressive pace. It's really pretty simple. His arm is weak and he processes slowly and he's an incredible frontrunner so once he faced adversity he collapsed.

His most memorable career game is the one where he threw 3 passes. He's never been The Guy.

"Whiff" was in the sense of the pick didn't work out. I was not implying that the pick was bad at the time it was made, the pick made a lot of sense at 15. Unfortunately Mac sucks.

EVERY issue the team faces right now ultimately stems from Mac. Now, BB deserves criticism for not bringing in veteran competition or benching him earlier in the season. But make no mistake, this is primarily on Mac.

 

[tims4wins]

He played a run of cupcakes and racked up Ws. Once he faced real teams he lost games at an impressive pace. It's really pretty simple. His arm is weak and he processes slowly and he's an incredible frontrunner so once he faced adversity he collapsed.

His most memorable career game is the one where he threw 3 passes. He's never been The Guy.

"Whiff" was in the sense of the pick didn't work out. I was not implying that the pick was bad at the time it was made, the pick made a lot of sense at 15. Unfortunately Mac sucks.

I’ll disagree about the cupcakes because the Browns and Titans were pretty good and he also showed pretty darn well against Tampa and Dallas. They hit the bye and then it all fell apart. It’s not like Indy and Miami were great teams that year. I forget who else they lost to. Buffalo, who the D couldn’t stop.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

I’ll disagree about the cupcakes because the Browns and Titans were pretty good and he also showed pretty darn well against Tampa and Dallas. They hit the bye and then it all fell apart. It’s not like Indy and Miami were great teams that year. I forget who else they lost to. Buffalo, who the D couldn’t stop.

The league caught up to him. He can't throw. They pressed the box and dared him to beat them and he can't do it. He also only throws to one side of the field.

It's like a batter who can't hit a slider. Eventually, the league adjusts. Mac was exposed.

 

[Ed Hillel]

It comes down to this for me. You are going to have the most valuable draft capital in two decades this off-season. BB was trusted to do a rebuild for the last four years and things have gotten progressively worse since 2021. The question to ask is why to trust him with another rebuild when he has not proven capable in this cycle. I don’t think he has suddenly lost it because we know drafting is more art than science. But if someone had four years to rebuild post-Brady and this is the result, I’m not handing the keys to that person with the same setup just because they’ve had a chance in this exact situation just several years ago and we’re right back here now.

Yeah, but you can argue he rebuilt the roster 4-5 times previously and was successful in pretty much all of them, so that's some important context imo.

I think he took a very reasonable pick in QB at the time with Mac. End of the day, the QB is just so bad the team doesn't have a chance. He's the worst starting QB in football. You can do a lot of other things right and if the QB is this bad, it won't matter. I think the defensive rebuild has been really very good, and Mac has made other parts of the offense look worse than they are.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Yeah, but you can argue he rebuilt the roster 4-5 times previously and was successful in pretty much all of them, so that's some important context imo.

I think he took a very reasonable pick in QB at the time with Mac. End of the day, the QB is just so bad the team doesn't have a chance. He's the worst starting QB in football. You can do a lot of other things right and if the QB is this bad, it won't matter. I think the defensive rebuild has been really very good, and Mac has made other parts of the offense look worse than they are.

He's the worst starting QB In franchise history.

 

[tims4wins]

The league caught up to him. He can't throw. They pressed the box and dared him to beat them and he can't do it. He also only throws to one side of the field.

It's like a batter who can't hit a slider. Eventually, the league adjusts. Mac was exposed.

I guess that could be it. I’m not well enough versed in X’s and o’s to be able to speak to that. He threw a 9 game stretch in 2021 with a 71% completions, over 8 yards/attempt, 14-5 TD-INT and a 105 rating. Then the bye hit. Maybe that marked the point where defenses adjusted.

 

[jsinger121]

Yeah, but you can argue he rebuilt the roster 4-5 times previously and was successful in pretty much all of them, so that's some important context imo.

I think he took a very reasonable pick in QB at the time with Mac. End of the day, the QB is just so bad the team doesn't have a chance. He's the worst starting QB in football. You can do a lot of other things right and if the QB is this bad, it won't matter. I think the defensive rebuild has been really very good, and Mac has made other parts of the offense look worse than they are.

You are forgetting the one thing that allows you to be able rebuild 4-5 times over. Tom Brady.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

I guess that could be it. I’m not well enough versed in X’s and o’s to be able to speak to that. He threw a 9 game stretch in 2021 with a 71% completions, over 8 yards/attempt, 14-5 TD-INT and a 105 rating. Then the bye hit. Maybe that marked the point where defenses adjusted.

I think that's exactly it. He got exposed. All QB's do to some degree, Goff got exposed in the SB as we well remember. Mac got exposed after the bye.

 

[Strike4]

Thoughts on BB running the team with a new QB in 2024? Seems a bit hasty to be like "he's gotta go" and just assume that he's not the coach for a young team starting from scratch. 72 isn't that old and he's done this kind of thing before.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

.

 

[jsinger121]

Thoughts on BB running the team with a new QB in 2024? Seems a bit hasty to be like "he's gotta go" and just assume that he's not the coach for a young team starting from scratch. 72 isn't that old and he's done this kind of thing before.

I'd rather a new QB, new coach and someone new picking the talent to be honest. The offense is stale and pathetic under BB.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

Yeah, but you can argue he rebuilt the roster 4-5 times previously and was successful in pretty much all of them, so that's some important context imo.

I think he took a very reasonable pick in QB at the time with Mac. End of the day, the QB is just so bad the team doesn't have a chance. He's the worst starting QB in football. You can do a lot of other things right and if the QB is this bad, it won't matter. I think the defensive rebuild has been really very good, and Mac has made other parts of the offense look worse than they are.

Amen

 

[Ed Hillel]

You are forgetting the one thing that allows you to be able rebuild 4-5 times over. Tom Brady.

I'm really not, though. BB was consistently able to put good talent on both sides of the ball and ST in creating the 20-year run. It was more than just Tom Brady, as good as he was. There were times here and there where players aged out or left and he did a fantastic job consistently finding talent to plug in.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

I think that's exactly it. He got exposed. All QB's do to some degree, Goff got exposed in the SB as we well remember. Mac got exposed after the bye.

Isn’t Goff good?

 

[heavyde050]

Isn’t Goff good?

Goff is good.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

No other team with an all time great QB has ever been able to be as dominant for as long as the BB/Brady Pats. Not Rodgers with GB, not Manning with Indy or Denver, not Brees in NO, and certainly not Marino in Miami. Not even Walsh/Montana was this dominant. Hell, Reid/Mahomes isn't as dominant.

Brady is the GOAT but he's not a panacea, you still have to put a team around him and BB did that to the highest possible level for 20 years.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Isn’t Goff good?

Because Goff ADJUSTED. He started processing faster.

Mac hasn't done that.

 

[jsinger121]

Isn’t Goff good?

Goff to me is exactly what Alex Smith was in KC. A good placeholder until they can find that next elite guy.

 

[luckiestman]

Goff to me is exactly what Alex Smith was in KC. A good placeholder until they can find that next elite guy.

Not as smart, better arm.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

Greg Bedard was on the radio suggesting that Bill should resign now because he should realize that he’s not the best available choice to coach the team and to give Jerod Mayo two months to showcase himself.

This is gonna get crazier by the week.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Greg Bedard was on the radio suggesting that Bill should resign now because he should realize that he’s not the best available choice to coach the team and to give Jerod Mayo two months to showcase himself.

This is gonna crazier by the week.

lol imagine giving the reigns of Mac Jones with an injury-depleted roster to someone for a first-ever coaching tryout. That would be cruel.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

lol imagine giving the reigns of Mac Jones with an injury-depleted roster to someone for a first-ever coaching tryout. That would be cruel.

Ya, it’s fantastic, imagine killing all these birds with one stone:

-Make the season about yourself while putting the team in immediate disarray.
-Give up the 25M or whatever his salary is for next year.
-Hand Mayo a lost situation with little to no warning.

 

[Harry Hooper]

I don't really buy Bedard's suggestion either, but there was some logic behind it in terms of BB trying to keep in place Mayo and everything else rather than seeing the Krafts flush everything out the door by bringing in a whole new football operations team.

 

[j44thor]

Because Goff ADJUSTED. He started processing faster.

Mac hasn't done that.

I don't think QBs start magically processing faster several years into their career. Goff has the perfect combination of a top 5 OL for pass blocking. Amon-Ra who can get open at all levels of the field and a creative OC who is going to be a hot commodity as a HC. Goff has more arm talent than Mac but is similar to Mac in that he can't create offense out of structure, that has never changed in his career. What did change is DET doesn't need him to create. Switch Goff and Mac and we would all be lamenting Goff at QB and Mac would look serviceable albeit not nearly as good as Goff has played.

 

[mcpickl]

No better option HAS to be on BB though. He knew what Zappe was. He should have brought in a Brissett or Minshew type as a backup.

So many people keep saying this, and I don't get it. Where is this team if Brissett or Minshew is here instead of Zappe? What real difference are they making?

Vet guys like that should be in one of two spots, as a backup behind a veteran on a contender that can bridge if your starter is out short term, or as a backup to a young starter that can kind of shepherd the young kid along.

The Patriots are neither scenario. They aren't a contender, and Mac already had two seasons experience with Brian Hoyer here to shepherd him along.

Those guys are in the exact type of spots they belong.

But boy would I have loved to see the wailing on this board if the Patriots had outbid the 8M the Commanders gave Brissett to hold a clipboard while also complaining the roster was talent deficient in so many other spots. That would've been fun.

 

[8slim]

He's the worst starting QB In franchise history.

Whoa whoa whoa.

I think we need a bracket tournament to decide your claim. Because I watched a lot of Tommy Hodson, Scott Zolak and Marc Wilson in my day, pal.

Let’s call it Fall Sadness.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Whoa whoa whoa.

I think we need a bracket tournament to decide your claim. Because I watched a lot of Tommy Hodson, Scott Zolak and Marc Wilson in my day, pal.

Let’s call it Fall Sadness.

I saw those guys too. I attended a game where Jeff Carlson was the starting QB.

Given the pick and the investment and expectations in him, I still hold that Mac is the worst.

 

[8slim]

I think they didn’t have a better option. I also think Mac to be honest has tried really hard and probably done the right things in practice. And, I’d Bill is being honest, he probably doesn’t think all of Mac’s problems are all on him.

The terrible INT to Gesicki today is a good example.Yes it’s “all on Mac” – OL did its job, receiver is open. And Mac threw a turd on a throw he has made most of the time this year.

So what went wrong?

I’m guessing Mac’s internal clock is a mess due to the protection issues. He’s not used to Gesicki being open that much (see: what Gesicki’s poor route on last week’s backbreaking interception to Juju), again likely throwing his timing off. And then he rushes things and throws off his back foot. Rinse and repeat.

Is it fixable? I have no idea. Probably not. Certainly not this year. But has there been a better option? No.

This is a very logical take. I’d just counter that, fair or not, that’s the job.

Most QBs in this league aren’t playing behind stout offensive lines. Most deal with receivers who are inconsistent route runners. Hell, many have to endure mediocre-to-lousy offensive coordinators.

That’s the gig. Being a successful NFL QB is the hardest thing to do in sports, IMHO.

He’s a mess because he’s just not good enough. Doesn’t seem fixable at this point. I’m not even confident he’s got a career as a backup ahead of him.

 

[8slim]

I saw those guys too. I attended a game where Jeff Carlson was the starting QB.

Given the pick and the investment and expectations in him, I still hold that Mac is the worst.

I just want to do a bracket.

 

[NortheasternPJ]

Whoa whoa whoa.

I think we need a bracket tournament to decide your claim. Because I watched a lot of Tommy Hodson, Scott Zolak and Marc Wilson in my day, pal.

Let’s call it Fall Sadness.

I did a quick math and it looks like those 3 combined started 29 games with the Pats. Mac’s got 40 starts.

He’s a 1st round pick and he sucks.

 

[Justthetippett]

So many people keep saying this, and I don't get it. Where is this team if Brissett or Minshew is here instead of Zappe? What real difference are they making?

Vet guys like that should be in one of two spots, as a backup behind a veteran on a contender that can bridge if your starter is out short term, or as a backup to a young starter that can kind of shepherd the young kid along.

The Patriots are neither scenario. They aren't a contender, and Mac already had two seasons experience with Brian Hoyer here to shepherd him along.

Those guys are in the exact type of spots they belong.

But boy would I have loved to see the wailing on this board if the Patriots had outbid the 8M the Commanders gave Brissett to hold a clipboard while also complaining the roster was talent deficient in so many other spots. That would've been fun.

I think with Brissett you might have another win or two. Nothing dramatic. The upside would be that you'd clearly be in rebuild mode, we wouldn't have to watch Mac and suffer the aggravation and Bill would look a little more competent for having had a decent contingency plan. As it is, it looks like a hack job.

 

[8slim]

I did a quick math and it looks like those 3 combined started 29 games with the Pats. Mac’s got 40 starts.

He’s a 1st round pick and he sucks.

He’s definitely a #1 seed for Fall Sadness.

 

[mcpickl]

I think with Brissett you might have another win or two. Nothing dramatic. The upside would be that you'd clearly be in rebuild mode, we wouldn't have to watch Mac and suffer the aggravation and Bill would look a little more competent for having had a decent contingency plan. As it is, it looks like a hack job.

Even if you assume Brissett could've gotten you another win or two(I'm doubtful), do you want another win or two in rebuild mode? And have spent another 8M or more you can't spend in the future?

I don't think it makes much sense in the short term, or long term.