The Ray Rice Debacle

[HomeRunBaker]

And those people saying that would have been chauvinistic assholes, even in the context of the time. It's not like spousal abuse was an openly accepted thing in the 60s or 70s. It was a shameful activity that people didn't understand or really want to think about. Let's not start congratulating ourselves for being so superior by painting a false picture of how bad it was way back when.

Honestly, I think the majority of folks would have shaken their head in disapproval and said "that's between them", which is bad enough.

I don't know I wasn't around or an adult during those times. I'd be interested in hearing from older SoSHers 60+ to shed more light on what that era was like in this regard. I recall as a kid openly hearing men verbally threaten their wife in public places such as restaurants but don't know how prevalent it was. I certainly don't recall hearing any outrage against it but I could have been too young to remember or recognize.

 

[uncannymanny]

Was having conversation with a three 70 year olds at the poker table yesterday asking they what the sports talk would have been had the Rice tapes been from 40-50 years ago.

Guy 1: "Every guy would tell their wife to shut up or she'll end up like Janay."

Guy 2: "They would ask why did he wait until getting in the elevator."

Guy 3: "No woman would dare talk back like that back in the day."

Dealer: (nodding) "My Dad was telling me same thing."


Times certainly have changed. Equality isn't there yet but it's come a long long way from 2-3 generations ago.

Yeah this is horseshit and just a sample of misogynistic pricks, a subset of men that still exist today.

 

[Couperin47]

Yeah this is horseshit and just a sample of misogynistic pricks, a subset of men that still exist today.

 
No, it's not horseshit, the % of men who were "misogynistic pricks" (and that phrase would have sent most scurrying to a dictionary to figure out what the first word meant) was exponentially greater in the 50's, the ONLY reason it was not automatically assumed that womenfolk belonged at home taking care of the kids and doing what their husband said was because they had, in recent memory, been holding down full shifts at Boeing, Grumann and Curtiss-Wright.  Those comments would have been greeted with approval by a majority of men, in public, in the 50's, though I suspect many would have added an aside that they probably wouldn't treat their  wife that way. Now let's be clear, they were not slugging their wives in public, they didn't need to, telling them to shut up was all that was needed. This would provoke embarrassed silence from others present...but for the majority, mostly because a wife had been so impertinent in public. Things changed significantly in the 60's as media and entertainment finally started portraying the idea that women could want a career outside the home, desire some independence and it was actually possible to be a 'normal' woman who's objectives were not to be married with kids by the time she was 25.
 
And the foregoing is not how things were somewhere in the backwoods, that's how it was in public in NYC in the 50's.

 

[ElcaballitoMVP]

Was having conversation with a three 70 year olds at the poker table yesterday asking they what the sports talk would have been had the Rice tapes been from 40-50 years ago.

Guy 1: "Every guy would tell their wife to shut up or she'll end up like Janay."

Guy 2: "They would ask why did he wait until getting in the elevator."

Guy 3: "No woman would dare talk back like that back in the day."

Dealer: (nodding) "My Dad was telling me same thing."


Times certainly have changed. Equality isn't there yet but it's come a long long way from 2-3 generations ago.

 
They were asked what the sports talk would've been like, not what they personally would've said. And I'm not sure they're that far off. We're talking about the idiots calling into EEI and we all know what those guys are like. 
 
Not responding to you, HRB, just wanted to quote again for clarity. 

 

[HomeRunBaker]

 
They were asked what the sports talk would've been like, not what they personally would've said. And I'm not sure they're that far off. We're talking about the idiots calling into EEI and we all know what those guys are like. 
 
Not responding to you, HRB, just wanted to quote again for clarity. 

Gotcha thanks. I will add that their tone, body language and overall demeanor wasn't that of being appalled. I think that's just the way it was back then with many, many men.

 

[Section30]

Former FBI director Mueller to investigate the NFL's handling of the Ray Rice Case....
 
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/11/us-usa-ravens-rice-idUSKBN0H528120140911

 

[johnmd20]

Former FBI director Mueller to investigate the NFL's handling of the Ray Rice Case....
 
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/11/us-usa-ravens-rice-idUSKBN0H528120140911

 
Thank you for this breaking news.

 

[RedOctober3829]

There are tons of Rice jerseys around the stadium tonight as I'm watching the pregame shows. A number of them are women who say they support Rice. One said that Ray had a right to hit her back because she struck him. Baltimore fans are delusional and frankly stupid. Another classic argument from them is that he should still be playing because other players did worse and are still playing. It's an embarrassing fan base.

 

[Bongorific]

There are tons of Rice jerseys around the stadium tonight as I'm watching the pregame shows. A number of them are women who say they support Rice. One said that Ray had a right to hit her back because she struck him. Baltimore fans are delusional and frankly stupid. Another classic argument from them is that he should still be playing because other players did worse and are still playing. It's an embarrassing fan base.

Thank you for this breaking news.

 

[johnmd20]

There are tons of Rice jerseys around the stadium tonight as I'm watching the pregame shows. A number of them are women who say they support Rice. One said that Ray had a right to hit her back because she struck him. Baltimore fans are delusional and frankly stupid. Another classic argument from them is that he should still be playing because other players did worse and are still playing. It's an embarrassing fan base.

 
I just heard the same interviews. I assume they picked the two stupidest comments and played them. Because that was horrendous.

 

[Jnai]

Cowher weighing in with some amazing shit. Dude, you coached a rapist. What are you talking about with your three daughters.

 

[MarcSullivaFan]

Cowher weighing in with some amazing shit. Dude, you coached a rapist. What are you talking about with your three daughters.

Pretty sure he retired before the rape accusations.

Edit: Cowher retired after the 2006-2007 season. Roethlisberger wasn't accused of sexual assault until 2009.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Roethlisberger

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

There are tons of Rice jerseys around the stadium tonight as I'm watching the pregame shows. A number of them are women who say they support Rice. One said that Ray had a right to hit her back because she struck him. Baltimore fans are delusional and frankly stupid. Another classic argument from them is that he should still be playing because other players did worse and are still playing. It's an embarrassing fan base.

 
Stuff actually said by actual humans today in my building and either heard by me or reported to me from one of my staff lunchroom moles:
 
"If she didn't want him suspended, what is the league supposed to do."
 
"The second tape proves she started it."
 
"Why doesn't she just leave him if it bothers her so much."
 
And my very favorite (directly heard by me and uttered by a guy with a very advanced degree whom I actually regarded as somewhat smart until today).  It's such a mixed bag with contradictory messages that I saved it for posterity:
 
"So, one guy gets banned for life last year because he does what we used to call 'name calling' but now is called 'bullying' to a man who is 6 foot 8, and then a guy who lays out a chick gets only 2 games."

 

[dcmissle]

There are tons of Rice jerseys around the stadium tonight as I'm watching the pregame shows. A number of them are women who say they support Rice. One said that Ray had a right to hit her back because she struck him. Baltimore fans are delusional and frankly stupid. Another classic argument from them is that he should still be playing because other players did worse and are still playing. It's an embarrassing fan base.

I don't see any in my section. Some Steeler jerseys though. People just enjoying a good game. Football goes on.

 

[Myt1]

NFL Network postgame fucking fellating the fuck out of the Ravens for overcoming the adversity of having to finally cut ties with their wife beating teammate

 

[singaporesoxfan]

NFL Network postgame fucking fellating the fuck out of the Ravens for overcoming the adversity of having to finally cut ties with their wife beating teammate

Quoth the craven, never more.

 

[dcmissle]

NFL Network postgame fucking fellating the fuck out of the Ravens for overcoming the adversity of having to finally cut ties with their wife beating teammate

For an antidote, go to a football game. Don't watch it on tv, pick one and go.

While driving to one Thursday night a DC radio made the point that NFL stands for No Football League. By that he meant that 90% of the gum flapping is devoted to player and executive stupidity and misconduct.

Only by going to this week's ground zero was I able to break out of the Ray Rice snow village. It was just another Steelers/Ravens football game, a good thing.

Media are ruining our sports, cause we allow them to.

 

[PC Drunken Friar]

For an antidote, go to a football game. Don't watch it on tv, pick one and go.

While driving to one Thursday night a DC radio made the point that NFL stands for No Football League. By that he meant that 90% of the gum flapping is devoted to player and executive stupidity and misconduct.

Only by going to this week's ground zero was I able to break out of the Ray Rice snow village. It was just another Steelers/Ravens football game, a good thing.

Media are ruining our sports, cause we allow them to.

Yea, I really wish the media would've just accepted the NFLs two game suspension of Rice and left him alone.

 

[dcmissle]

Yea, I really wish the media would've just accepted the NFLs two game suspension of Rice and left him alone.

I have been leading the attack against Goodell, but this shouldn't become the primary lens through which you view the game. And in the media, it has -- Rice, Irsay,Hardy, MacDonald, Gordon, Welker, the new policies and so forth.

 

[soxfan121]

Only by going to this week's ground zero was I able to break out of the Ray Rice snow village. It was just another Steelers/Ravens football game, a good thing.

Media are ruining our sports, cause we allow them to.

 
Hey...you could be reading and talking about football with the Football Central posts. Lots of great FOOTBALL talk, no snow villages.
 
Just sayin'.

 

[PC Drunken Friar]

I have been leading the attack against Goodell, but this shouldn't become the primary lens through which you view the game. And in the media, it has -- Rice, Irsay,Hardy, MacDonald, Gordon, Welker, the new policies and so forth.

Misunderstood where you were going.  I agree, but i also think we do need to take a step back and ask if it is worth it and are we, as fans part of the problem.  Change won't come until it hurts the bottom line $.  I wish Hardy and McDonald would be talked about more.  That's something I think the media NEEDS to harp on now.
 
As of now, its hard to view the game as something other than a place where horrible criminals go protected, the athletes go on destroying their future lives, the brass lies and lies and lies, and people make a shit ton of money.

 

[SumnerH]

I'd say this: For an antidote, go to a baseball game. Don't watch it on tv, pick one and go. There's a playoff hunt on, the last nice days of summer are slipping away, and you won't hear a word about Rice/Goodell. There'll be time for tailgates and such in a month when the media's less obsessed with this story.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Anyone surprised by the behavior of the Ravens fans has forgotten how they behave and behaved regarding Ray Lewis.

 

[Spacemans Bong]

Slightly off topic, but hysterical:
 
49ers suspend radio announcer Ted Robinson two games for comments on Janae Rice 
 
Making stupid comments about Janae Rice = suspension worthy
 
Hitting your pregnant girlfriend = not suspension worthy, because we need a defensive tackle now that Glenn Dorsey's out for the year. Fuck you Harbaugh. 

 

[Ed Hillel]

Anyone surprised by the behavior of the Ravens fans has forgotten how they behave and behaved regarding Ray Lewis.

 
Not just Ray Lewis, but here are the alleged details of the Terrell Suggs story from a few years ago:
 

According to the domestic complaint obtained Friday by The Baltimore Sun, Suggs' longtime girlfriend, Candace Williams, claimed the All-Pro punched her in the neck and dragged her alongside a speeding car with their two children in the vehicle. The woman said she suffered "severe road rash" as a result of the incident.

 

In December 2009, Williams alleged Suggs held her down on the floor, poured bleach on her and their son and kicked her in the face, breaking her nose, according to The Sun. Williams also claimed physical abuse dating to the start of their relationship in 2007.

 

As is standard protocol in the wake of a complaint of this nature, Suggs was ordered to turn over any firearms in his possession. The Sun reported he turned over seven guns. WBAL-TV reported Suggs surrendered nine.

 
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000107329/article/terrell-suggs-girlfriend-claims-he-punched-her-in-neck
 
 
ESPN is also running with an in-depth story on the Greg Hardy situation. The details alleged to have happened are about ten times worse than the Ray Rice incident. He's alleged to have beaten her around, thrown her on the bathroom floor repeatedly, choked her and told her he was going to kill her, picked her up over his head, threw her onto a couch full of automatic weapons, and said "they're all loaded." It's enough to make Jerry Richardson cry...

 

[Average Reds]

 
ESPN is also running with an in-depth story on the Greg Hardy situation. The details alleged to have happened are about ten times worse than the Ray Rice incident. He's alleged to have beaten her around, thrown her on the bathroom floor repeatedly, choked her and told her he was going to kill her, picked her up over his head, threw her onto a couch full of automatic weapons, and said "they're all loaded." It's enough to make Jerry Richardson cry...

 
The 49ers can at least make a reasonable argument for why they are waiting on Ray McDonald.  But Greg Hardy is convicted and the gruesome details are public.  He needs to be gone.
 
The inconsistency is a bit stunning.

 

[dcmissle]

It is all public relations. We don't have a tape on Hardy, so ....

It's hard to muster a lot of sympathy for a guy who knocks out his fiancé, but the lawyer in me would love to have a run at Rice's case. He got fucked.

 

[redsahx]

It is all public relations. We don't have a tape on Hardy, so ....

It's hard to muster a lot of sympathy for a guy who knocks out his fiancé, but the lawyer in me would love to have a run at Rice's case. He got fucked.

I'm sure if Hardy were a past-his-peak running back whose production was easily replaceable, and not a key contributor on the defensive line, Richardson would make "the right decision".

[EDIT] Chopped out earlier part and just summarize that the more you think about it, the more outrageous it is that the NFL claimed the rationale for increasing the suspension to "indefinite" was new evidence. Even though Rice isn't a sympathetic figure, and even though Goodell is never consistent anyways, Rice didn't cover anything up, and the NFL already had the evidence earlier. It is outrageous to punish someone simply on the grounds of trying to cover up your own incompetence. Yeah I agree it is tough to let this precedent stand, and I'm not even a lawyer.

 

[gammoseditor]

It is all public relations. We don't have a tape on Hardy, so ....

It's hard to muster a lot of sympathy for a guy who knocks out his fiancé, but the lawyer in me would love to have a run at Rice's case. He got fucked.

 
Absolutely PR which is why the media needs to do a better job getting the details out and the public need more outrage!

 

[glennhoffmania]

People need to learn when to shut up:
 

 
Torrey Smith, C.J. Mosley and Jacoby Jones were among the players who told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette that the win was for Rice.
 
"Ray is still a great guy," Smith said. "He's a model man. He made a huge mistake, but he's still a great person."
 
 
"We wanted to get that for Ray," Mosley said. "He was part of this organization for a long time. He put a lot of blood, sweat and tears into it."
 
''We all wish the best for him," Mosley added. "Even though he messed up, every man got to go through their mistakes to get better."
 
Terrell Suggs, one of the leaders in the Ravens locker room, said that despite everything, the team still loves Rice.
 
"It was a very emotional game," Suggs said. "He's done a lot for this city. We love our brother."
 

 

"We know what time it is in this circle," Jacoby Jones added. "Ray is our brother. We pray for him."
 
Ravens coach John Harbaugh didn't specifically mention Rice, but he did say he was impressed with how his team handled the adversity this week.
 
"We had a tough family situation," Harbaugh told the Baltimore Sun. "I thought our guys handled it tremendously with class, with character, they responded."
 

 

[BornToRun]

I wish I could say I was surprised but this is the Ravens we're talking about after all. The willingness with which these people step forward to stand up for a confirmed domestic abuser is sad nonetheless.

 

[DJnVa]

Ray Rice got a sweet deal: http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/11514871/judicial-figures-show-ray-rice-deal-offered-rarely
 

The pretrial intervention program offered to Ray Rice in the assault case involving his wife was granted in less than 1 percent of all domestic violence assault cases from 2010-13 that were resolved, according to New Jersey Judiciary data obtained Friday by "Outside the Lines."
 

 

[bosox188]

 
Terrell Suggs, one of the leaders in the Ravens locker room

 
I'm not sure much more needs to be said.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

Ray Rice got a sweet deal: http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/11514871/judicial-figures-show-ray-rice-deal-offered-rarely

Wait a minute .. Weren't we assured by all the SoSH shysters hear abouts that that settlement was perfectly normal and exactly the norm. Or is the difference here the mitigating details of first time offence and the GF not wanting to press charges?

 

[axx]

It's hard to muster a lot of sympathy for a guy who knocks out his fiancé, but the lawyer in me would love to have a run at Rice's case. He got fucked.

 
There's a part of me that thinks this got blown up because of the frustration over the Redskins name and they needed something to attack the NFL with. Uncovering a conspiracy like that would not be easy though.

 

[lambeau]

Did Ray get a sweet deal? I think the lawyers here thought no jail time for a first offender was par for the course, but maybe escaping even probation is what's unusual? I've seen guys ordered not to drink, for example, which is a probation condition.

 

[dcmissle]

Wait a minute .. Weren't we assured by all the SoSH shysters hear abouts that that settlement was perfectly normal and exactly the norm. Or is the difference here the mitigating details of first time offence and the GF not wanting to press charges?

We have this on the word of several here who consulted reputable sources.

That 1% statistic is virtually meaningless. People cycled through the DV system almost certainly include many repeat offenders. Then there are the guys who use weapons or beat someone to within an inch of her life.

The relevant question is what happens to guys like RR.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

We have this on the word of several here who consulted reputable sources.
That 1% statistic is virtually meaningless. People cycled through the DV system almost certainly include many repeat offenders. Then there are the guys who use weapons or beat someone to within an inch of her life.
The relevant question is what happens to guys like RR.

Ok .. Fair enough ..

 

[Shelterdog]

Wait a minute .. Weren't we assured by all the SoSH shysters hear abouts that that settlement was perfectly normal and exactly the norm. Or is the difference here the mitigating details of first time offence and the GF not wanting to press charges?

I saw the story and asked my guy-an eight year prosecutor in the Manhattan DAs office. He thought it looked like a sweetheart deal because there were so free conditions and no community service ( and he wasn't sure whether there was an order of protection but there usually would be) but even if it wasn't a sweetheart deal the perp still doesn't go to jail.

And don't call me a shyster, asshole.

EDIT: Perp had been autocorrected to prep. Which is hysterical.

 

[amarshal2]

 
There's a part of me that thinks this got blown up because of the frustration over the Redskins name and they needed something to attack the NFL with. Uncovering a conspiracy like that would not be easy though.

Who is "they"?

It would not be easy to uncover because the suggestion is epically stupid and blatantly wrong. You just insulted 99% of the posters in the thread.

 

[caesarbear]

 
There's a part of me that thinks this got blown up because of the frustration over the Redskins name and they needed something to attack the NFL with.

I'm hoping that's the drooling moron part of you.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

NFLPA officially appeals the Rice indefinite suspension. It's now on and it's now juicy!!

 

[MarcSullivaFan]

 
There's a part of me that thinks this got blown up because of the frustration over the Redskins name and they needed something to attack the NFL with. Uncovering a conspiracy like that would not be easy though.

Follow the chem trails man, follow them wherever they go.

 

[soxfan121]

NFLPA officially appeals the Rice indefinite suspension. It's now on and it's now juicy!!

 
They have no choice. They also appealed the Hernandez money issue. Even the guilty get representation and have rights. 

 

[HomeRunBaker]

 
They have no choice. They also appealed the Hernandez money issue. Even the guilty get representation and have rights. 

I agree with this however the Rice case is different in that the NFLPA have others to protect in pushing hard here......Peterson, McDonald, Hardy, etc. I don't believe this was as simple as a formality to appeal......I feel this will get very very ugly. It certainly has the potential to if it isn't already.

 

[Myt1]

It should get ugly fast. All of the stuff about what the NFL knew and when is going to play to show that nothing changed between the two punishments but public perception.

 

[Ralphwiggum]

The NFLPA has no choice assuming Rice is telling them the following:
 
1.  Rice met with Goodell and told him what happened in the elevator and was truthful.
2.  Goodell suspends Rice for 2 games.
3.  Video is released, public goes nuts
4.  Goodell suspends Rice indefinitely
 
As odious as Rice's behavior was, the league can't change the punishment that a guy gets based on public outcry, again assuming Rice was truthful with Goodell in the original meeting (or Goodell saw the video).  The details of what Rice told them, and whether Goodell saw the video (or knew of its existence) will be the key.
 
None of that has any applicability to Peterson, McDonald or Hardy.

 

[soxfan121]

The NFLPA has no choice assuming Rice is telling them the following:
 
1.  Rice met with Goodell and told him what happened in the elevator and was truthful.
2.  Goodell suspends Rice for 2 games.
3.  Video is released, public goes nuts
4.  Goodell suspends Rice indefinitely
 
As odious as Rice's behavior was, the league can't change the punishment that a guy gets based on public outcry, again assuming Rice was truthful with Goodell in the original meeting (or Goodell saw the video).  The details of what Rice told them, and whether Goodell saw the video (or knew of its existence) will be the key.
 
None of that has any applicability to Peterson, McDonald or Hardy.

 
I think your post is a good one and touches on all the relevant issues but regardless of WHY, the NFLPA has no choice. Their role here is to appeal, regardless of what Rice tells them or what the facts are. They are professionally obligated to appeal on behalf of a union member. Period. 
 
De Smith probably held his nose when filling out the paperwork on the Hernandez appeal, knowing it was such an outlier that it probably wouldn't happen again in his tenure; he probably punched himself in the nuts when filling out the paperwork on this one because all of these suspensions have the be appealed and the optics are terrible for him and the Union. 

 

[HomeRunBaker]

It should get ugly fast. All of the stuff about what the NFL knew and when is going to play to show that nothing changed between the two punishments but public perception.

Hey we do agree on something!

You are spot on. The players were disciplined, nothing changed but public perception.....and sponsors beginning to flex their muscle (Nike, Anheuser-Busch), and they are being disciplined again?

Fire up the popcorn this is gonna get good.

 

[Myt1]

Stopped clocks and all that. :lol: