The Newest Vaughn

Fishy1

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If Valdez fields fine, then we suddenly don’t need Grissom at all.
Well, even if fields fine, Grissom will probably still be the better option. Grissom's minor league hitting performance is comparable to Casas. We're talking about a guy who was 135 wrc+ at AAA last year, 147 at AA, and 146 and better at A+. Casas, for comparison, was about 130 at AAA and 142 at AA. He could be a monster hitter. Valdez I'd project to be a league average guy. 10 war for his career would be a upper quartile outcome for him, I would think. Grissom has a chance to be a guy who's worth 3-4 WAR year-in, year-out, and better if his defense ends up being above average at 2b (which I'm not really in the business of predicting). I know we don't like batting average anymore, but it's hard to ignore that he never hit below .311 in a full minor league season, and he posted on-base percentages of .400 at every stop except rookie ball, ironically. For god's sake, the guy dominated the minor leagues.

Grissom:

79592

Valdez:

79593

I think Valdez is a guy who will probably be between 95-115 wrc+ for his career, but his defense might range from average to below average. If the patience he demonstrated in the upper minors never materializes, he'll also be on the lower range of that wrc+ spectrum and might wash out.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Fair enough, my point was a tad hyperbolic, but if Valdez is suddenly fine defensively, than I don’t think the absence of Grissom will be that significant.
 

CR67dream

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Fair enough, my point was a tad hyperbolic, but if Valdez is suddenly fine defensively, than I don’t think the absence of Grissom will be that significant.
I totally agree with that, but I also think they have enough options this year to be OK there for a short time regardless. As I said, I'm pretty sure given the position change they're not expecting the second coming of Roberto Alomar in Grissom right off the bat (ok, a tad hyperbolic myself, ;) ) but yeah, I think as it stands the short-term absence of Grissom early on will have very little effect on the results or quality of play.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I totally agree with that, but I also think they have enough options this year to be OK there for a short time regardless. As I said, I'm pretty sure given the position change they're not expecting the second coming of Roberto Alomar in Grissom right off the bat (ok, a tad hyperbolic myself, ;) ) but yeah, I think as it stands the short-term absence of Grissom early on will have very little effect on the results or quality of play.
If Grissom ends up within spitting distance of Alomar, that'd be just fine.
 

nvalvo

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If Valdez fields fine, then we suddenly don’t need Grissom at all.
Uh, yes we do. His minor league track record suggests a Pedroia-esque offensive impact. Valdez is a nice piece against righties, but Grissom should be a .280/.350/.420 type.

(To be clear, I’m not expecting anywhere close to Pedroian excellence on the defensive side. Just competence.)
 

SouthernBoSox

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Uh, yes we do. His minor league track record suggests a Pedroia-esque offensive impact. Valdez is a nice piece against righties, but Grissom should be a .280/.350/.420 type.

(To be clear, I’m not expecting anywhere close to Pedroian excellence on the defensive side. Just competence.)
Yea, we’ve said this a lot, but because Vaughn came from outside of the system people are really underestimating the ceiling.

It’s very very high. He’s much closer to Casas than Valdez when it comes to potential.

I do think it would be very valuable to see Valdez for a few week. If his defense is just slightly below average he will have actual value moving forward.
 

Rovin Romine

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I totally agree with that, but I also think they have enough options this year to be OK there for a short time regardless. As I said, I'm pretty sure given the position change they're not expecting the second coming of Roberto Alomar in Grissom right off the bat (ok, a tad hyperbolic myself, ;) ) but yeah, I think as it stands the short-term absence of Grissom early on will have very little effect on the results or quality of play.
In a perfect world you have the classic "good problem" with two young, cost-controlled 2B by mid-season. But if it takes 4 weeks or so from the injury for him to recover, plus say two weeks in AAA to get up to speed, Valdez will have a month or so to turn this into a real pros/cons debate. Ultimately, I think Grissom has more upside, but that's not to short-change how valuable a neutral defensive Valdez would be with his bat.
 

The Gray Eagle

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Speier has an article about Grissom's struggles and how he is in catch-up mode.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/05/14/sports/red-sox-grissom-catching-up/

Through nine games this year, he is hitting just .135/.135/.162 with very little hard contact. His limited offensive production at this stage of his first season with the Red Sox, however, should not come as a huge surprise.
Grissom missed most of spring training with groin and hamstring injuries. Then, after a nine-game rehab assignment, the second baseman got sick just before he was set to be activated, losing 14 pounds because of his appetite loss.
“Physically, he’s not even close to where he should be,” Sox manager Alex Cora said.
Grissom, 0 for 4 in the win, said he has yet to regain his appetite from his illness, but he’s still trying to force himself to consume protein and carbs (lots of protein shakes and steak) so he can take on weight and build strength.
With the loss of weight and strength, Grissom acknowledged that his bat has felt heavy — preventing him from having the same “whip” and life in his swing that he felt through the offseason and into the start of spring training. That, in turn, has left him cheating at times with his swing. He has been starting the swing early, an approach that has made it harder for him to check on pitches he can’t drive.
So why did they bring him up when he is not feeling 100%?
The Sox are mindful that Grissom is reduced, yet taking the longer view. For now, he’s contributed solid defense, and the team believes that keeping Grissom in the lineup against big league pitchers is the best way to tap into the considerable offensive potential that led the club to acquire him from Atlanta in the Chris Sale trade over the winter.
“He’s a big part of what we’re trying to do now and what the organization is trying to do in the future,” Cora said. “We’re going to push him to get at-bats.”
On the season, Sox second basemen have been beyond horrendous. .166/.183/.242 in 42 games. 43 Ks to 4 BB in 165 PA. Jaw-dropping stuff.

The other guys were also hitting worse than pitchers, so the hope is that Grissom feels stronger soon and gets going. If he hits .200 for the next week, that would be a significant improvement over what we've had so far from the position.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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I don't get it. Grissom needs not only to get physically stronger, he also would appear to potentially benefit from a confidence boost. Nobody could be psyched to go to work when you're 0-4 day after day. Working his way back against AAA pitchers would be a start.

Meantime, I'll bet you Nick Sogard would outproduce him (or, obviously, Hamilton) on the MLB club. I realize Sogard requires a 40-man spot, but there are 40 ways to find one of those.
 

Fishy1

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I don't get it. Grissom needs not only to get physically stronger, he also would appear to potentially benefit from a confidence boost. Nobody could be psyched to go to work when you're 0-4 day after day. Working his way back against AAA pitchers would be a start.

Meantime, I'll bet you Nick Sogard would outproduce him (or, obviously, Hamilton) on the MLB club. I realize Sogard requires a 40-man spot, but there are 40 ways to find one of those.
I'm trying to think. I mean, for one, his time on the DL had expired, so they would have had to put him back on the DL. Then there was the fact that a healthy Valdez was hitting just as poorly. And Grissom was ripping the cover off the ball in AAA, so it's not like he was scuffling down there.

I think they just made a tough choice to play him after the illness and hope he gets his sea legs soon.

He doesn't seem, fwiw, like he's lacking confidence. He's smiling in the dugout, he's not striking out a ton, he's just not hitting the ball hard just yet. I think he'll be fine, honestly. He'll get going sooner or later once he's feeling better.
 

LoLsapien

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Yeah, there's conversation all over the board about how large a jump it is to MLB. Scuffling for 100-200 at bats should probably be the expectation at this point. He had about that much with ATL but it was between 2022-2023 so I'm not sure that really counts at this point, and he's at 37 plate appearances on the year. We should probably expect him to struggle for a while longer before getting concerned.
 

Rovin Romine

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In a perfect world you have the classic "good problem" with two young, cost-controlled 2B by mid-season. But if it takes 4 weeks or so from the injury for him to recover, plus say two weeks in AAA to get up to speed, Valdez will have a month or so to turn this into a real pros/cons debate. Ultimately, I think Grissom has more upside, but that's not to short-change how valuable a neutral defensive Valdez would be with his bat.
Well, Valdez had his month or so and it went incredibly poorly. A much improved defense paired with an awful bat. 90 ABs, 4 BB, 30Ks, .156/.186/.267.

SSS, but since he's been sent to Worcester, he's been on fire. 41 ABs, 4 HR, 7 BB, 14 K. .268/.375/634. BABIP is .304 - a bit above his MIL BABIP career average of .289.

Most of his AAA games have been at 2B, but he's gotten some time at 3B and 1B.


Yeah, there's conversation all over the board about how large a jump it is to MLB. Scuffling for 100-200 at bats should probably be the expectation at this point.
Pedroia and Casas were both longer than that. Casas showed pretty good underlying metrics though and his excellent batting eye and approach was evident in his individual at bats.

With younger players on the way up, the Sox need to invest in someone who can minimize the adjustment period or make it less stark in terms of outcomes. Valdez, for example, didn't "scuffle" - he cratered. And that was after OPSing .864 in 180 ML at-bats in 2023. Whatever they did with him this year was ass-backwards.
 

Sox Pride

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Yeah but Grissom has had success at the ML level before.

156 PA with a 793 OPS is at age 21 is nothing to sneeze at.

He's played what? Nine games this year?

Coming of an injury/illness where he lost 14 pounds. Give him a chance to get his feet back under him.
 

MikeM

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The former personal trainer in me finds that reported 14lb weight loss claim to be an eyebrow raiser. Especially for a higher end 200lb+ athletic guy with that body type. That's a pretty extreme amount of weight to lose in such a short amount of time.

Makes me wonder if there was more going on within that story (or whether it's being exaggerated). And what his normal diet looks like.
 

Fishy1

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The former personal trainer in me finds that reported 14lb weight loss claim to be an eyebrow raiser. Especially for a higher end 200lb+ athletic guy with that body type. That's a pretty extreme amount of weight to lose in such a short amount of time.

Makes me wonder if there was more going on within that story (or whether it's being exaggerated). And what his normal diet looks like.
When I first saw him at the plate I did a doubletake. His clothes were hanging off of him.
 

shaggydog2000

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The former personal trainer in me finds that reported 14lb weight loss claim to be an eyebrow raiser. Especially for a higher end 200lb+ athletic guy with that body type. That's a pretty extreme amount of weight to lose in such a short amount of time.

Makes me wonder if there was more going on within that story (or whether it's being exaggerated). And what his normal diet looks like.
When you have a huge weight change in a short time like that, most of it is water, and it can come back pretty quickly once you're eating a normal amount of carbs, salt, etc.
 

jon abbey

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Meantime, I'll bet you Nick Sogard would outproduce him (or, obviously, Hamilton) on the MLB club. I realize Sogard requires a 40-man spot, but there are 40 ways to find one of those.
It's not finding the 40 man spot, it's that once you add a player that you care about, you need to keep them on the 40 man going forward. This is a big impediment for guys at times, I don't know the precise specifics of this situation but I'm sure it's a factor.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I'm trying to think. I mean, for one, his time on the DL had expired, so they would have had to put him back on the DL.
FWIW, Grissom has options so he can be sent to Worcester without an IL stint.


Meantime, I'll bet you Nick Sogard would outproduce him (or, obviously, Hamilton) on the MLB club. I realize Sogard requires a 40-man spot, but there are 40 ways to find one of those.
LOL to the Nick Sogard idea. Not that I'm down on Sogard, but he's a 26 year old currently sporting a .673 OPS at Worcester. Highly touted prospects who crushed AAA pitching have been struggling to transition to the majors (see consensus #1 prospect Jackson Holliday). No chance that a guy who's not tearing the cover off the ball is going to come up and succeed.
 

chrisfont9

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Yeah but Grissom has had success at the ML level before.

156 PA with a 793 OPS is at age 21 is nothing to sneeze at.

He's played what? Nine games this year?

Coming of an injury/illness where he lost 14 pounds. Give him a chance to get his feet back under him.
Right, his past experience is the part that makes me think the Sox need not worry about his mental state being impacted by getting rushed. I'm sure he knows he's playing catch-up physically and that isn't hurting his confidence much. Also how many big league spinners do you need to see before you can hit them? Guessing a lot. Carry on.
 

Sox Pride

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Anyone have a sense of how Grissom has played 2B? Not the D metrics (way too soon), eyeball test.
This was really my only worry on the Sale trade. I was hoping he didn't work out at SS for the Braves because he didn't have the arm for it.
I haven't noticed anything bad at second yet, but I don't have access to all the games.
 

ookami7m

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I've watched all but one of the games since he came up. He's solid if not spectacular. makes all the plays he should and has flashed some range. Seems to have a good feel for positioning. I'm no scout but he's quite Bellhorn-ian so far in that I've not noticed him on defense hardly at all.
 

Sin Duda

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I've watched all but one of the games since he came up. He's solid if not spectacular. makes all the plays he should and has flashed some range. Seems to have a good feel for positioning. I'm no scout but he's quite Bellhorn-ian so far in that I've not noticed him on defense hardly at all.
Thanks. I've only seen him a couple times, but he seems okay so far, Bellhornian, indeed! Hope he hits a couple key dingers against the Yankees.
 

beautokyo

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Grissom seems to need a little more spring training.....he doesn't seem ready to be with the big league club. He looks totally discombobulated with the bat imho
 

iddoc

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In the past week, I heard on one of the broadcasts that he had lost 14 pounds during the illness that delayed his activation at the beginning of the month. That doesn’t happen with a simple bout of norovirus or similar infection, and if true, makes me concerned that something more serious is wrong with him.

Setting those concerns aside, it looks like his timing is off, at least at the plate. Also he is probably pressing, at least to some extent. I’m sure he realizes the great expectations placed upon him, especially with Story gone for the year and Casas out for a long while, and is aware how well Sale is doing. That said, I don’t think sending him to AAA would help, much for the same reasons as have been cited for Rafaela (and they are more plausible in his case).
 

KillerBs

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At the same time, I do not think a trip back to AAA would really hurt Grissom at this stage. He looks to be pressing and he might benefit from getting his feet under him at Worcester, especially if he is still suffering from aftermaths of flu and losing 14 pounds. Let's see him torch the International League and go from there. Sending the message to Grissom that he is not going to be given the Sox 2b job for the foreseeable future, regardless of performance, may not hurt his mindset either. I am not against giving him another week, but if he is still hitting next to zero, I think they need to make a move, for his good and the team's.

On the grim 2024 2b/ss situation, Hamilton and Romy have shown some signs of life and Valdez has hit a bit at AAA. Maybe ride with a straight platoon of Valdez/Hamilton and Romy/Ceddanne for a few weeks and see if we get something close to replacement value. Our 2b are slashing 165/185/233, while playing mediocre to bad defense, so the bar to clear for significant improvement is about as low as it can get.

 
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Fishy1

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At the same time, I do not think a trip back to AAA would really hurt Grissom at this stage. He looks to be pressing and he might benefit from getting his feet under him at Worcester, especially if he is still suffering from aftermaths of flu and losing 14 pounds. Let's see him torch the International League and go from there. Sending the message to Grissom that he is not going to be given the Sox 2b job for the foreseeable future, regardless of performance, may not hurt his mindset either. I am not against giving him another week, but if he is still hitting next to zero, I think they need to make a move, for his good and the team's.

On the grim 2024 2b/ss situation, Hamilton and Romy have shown some signs of life and Valdez has hit a bit at AAA. Maybe ride with a straight platoon of Valdez/Hamilton and Romy/Ceddanne for a few weeks and see if we get something close to replacement value. Our 2b are slashing 165/185/233, while playing mediocre to bad defense, so the bar to clear for significant improvement is about as low as it can get.
Per baseball savant, he hit two balls last night, one at 104 mph with an xBA of .690, and and another at 98 mph with an xBA of .320. Neither went for hits. The night before that, he hit a groundball 100 mph's, an xBA of .430. Also went for an out. Night before that, he singled, walked, and struck out twice. Night before that, another 100 mph ball that went for an out with a decent xBA (.300) alongside a strikeout and two weekly hit balls.

Which isn't to say he's been ripping the cover off the ball or anything and it's all bad luck. He's barreled exactly one ball and made solid contact exactly two other times, and neither of those went for outs.

His statcast page organized by exit velocity shows his six hardest hit balls have all gone for outs. Several of those were line drives, right at people. Some of them were hard groundballs for easy outs. His seventh was a wall-ball double, his eighth was a diving play that was almost a single, his ninth a groundball for a doubleplay. Too many of his hardest hit balls are choppers for outs, so there's definitely a case to be made that he's been topping the ball too much, but there's quite a few line drives right at people.

Bottom line is, it can be pretty demoralizing to get sent down to AAA. Grissom has had all of 53 plate appearances to get his bat right. A week more might put him at around 70. I think sending him down now would be shortsighted. It shows no faith in the player, and tells the other plays you're indecisive and could send someone down at any moment, which I would imagine could get guys pressing.

Pedroia hit .191 in 2006 and .182 in April/March in 2007. If they'd sent him down after his April/March, they would have missed out on him hitting .415 in May.
 

chrisfont9

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Per baseball savant, he hit two balls last night, one at 104 mph with an xBA of .690, and and another at 98 mph with an xBA of .320. Neither went for hits. The night before that, he hit a groundball 100 mph's, an xBA of .430. Also went for an out. Night before that, he singled, walked, and struck out twice. Night before that, another 100 mph ball that went for an out with a decent xBA (.300) alongside a strikeout and two weekly hit balls.

Which isn't to say he's been ripping the cover off the ball or anything and it's all bad luck. He's barreled exactly one ball and made solid contact exactly two other times, and neither of those went for outs.

His statcast page organized by exit velocity shows his six hardest hit balls have all gone for outs. Several of those were line drives, right at people. Some of them were hard groundballs for easy outs. His seventh was a wall-ball double, his eighth was a diving play that was almost a single, his ninth a groundball for a doubleplay. Too many of his hardest hit balls are choppers for outs, so there's definitely a case to be made that he's been topping the ball too much, but there's quite a few line drives right at people.

Bottom line is, it can be pretty demoralizing to get sent down to AAA. Grissom has had all of 53 plate appearances to get his bat right. A week more might put him at around 70. I think sending him down now would be shortsighted. It shows no faith in the player, and tells the other plays you're indecisive and could send someone down at any moment, which I would imagine could get guys pressing.

Pedroia hit .191 in 2006 and .182 in April/March in 2007. If they'd sent him down after his April/March, they would have missed out on him hitting .415 in May.
This all sounds more or less exactly like what one would have imagined for him coming off illness, injury and no spring reps. He could have had more luck and some better numbers, but otherwise of course he's having a tough time catching up.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I think the biggest concern is the walk rate

2022: 7.1% (156 PA)
2023: 2.5% (80 PA)
2024: 1.9% (53 PA)
Couldn't the walk rate somewhat be attributed to pitchers just not messing around with him? If they can get him out staying in the zone, they're not going to give him the pitches outside the zone that he can work into a walk. I know we like to make a lot of walk rates, but sometimes when you're not hitting the ball at all, pitchers are just going to come after you. In such a small sample, especially with a guy who's just struggling in general, walk rate doesn't really mean a whole lot.
 

Fishy1

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@chrisfont9 Yeah, that's what I think too.

I think the biggest concern is the walk rate

2022: 7.1% (156 PA)
2023: 2.5% (80 PA)
2024: 1.9% (53 PA)
This is totally justified, but I'm not sure we can make much of it just yet. He walked 5 times in just 36 plate appearances in AAA this year, and a quick scan of his plate discipline info on fangraphs indicates not much has changed in terms of his approach except he's making 10% more contact on balls out of the zone and 5% less on balls in the zone. He's also seeing the most pitches per plate appearance of his career so far (3.98) versus 3.63 and 3.77 in the two years previous. K rate is still just 20%.

82888

He's clearly not being super selective. Maybe he's putting a lot of bad pitches in play, and that's keeping him from taking walks.
 

HfxBob

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I think the biggest concern is the walk rate

2022: 7.1% (156 PA)
2023: 2.5% (80 PA)
2024: 1.9% (53 PA)
I also look at K/BB ratio. A K/BB ratio of 4 to 1 or higher is generally unsustainable, a sure ticket out of MLB. We saw it with Middlebrooks and then Dalbec.

In his last 53 MLB games, Grissom has:

45 K's
7 BB's

Also, in those 53 games he has 0 home runs, after hitting 5 in his first 26.

It's still early but there are some very concerning things in his numbers.
 
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Fishy1

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I also look at K/BB ratio. A K/BB ratio of 4 to 1 or higher is generally unsustainable, a sure ticket out of MLB. We saw it with Middlebrooks and then Dalbec.

In his last 53 MLB games, Grissom has:

45 K's
7 BB's

Also, in those 53 games he has 0 home runs, after hitting 5 in his first 26.

It's still early but there are some very concerning things in his numbers.
I mean, at the end of the day, it's not just early but very, very, very early. Grissom has just 300 plate appearances at the major league level. So far they've produced a middling player. The lack of walks is a bummer, but I doubt it lasts, because he's always been a guy who takes about 7% walks. His minor league numbers and his first exposure to the big leagues suggests a guy with average patience, who doesn't chase much but puts a lot of balls in play.

If we wanted to judge guys just based on their first 300 plate appearances, well, Will Middlebrooks first three hundred plate appearances produced a wrc+ of 122. Tyler O'Neill's first 300 produced a guy who struck out 37% of the time and walked only 5% of the time. What about Jarren Duran?

All to say that it's really not worth judging a guy or making any assumptions about how he's going to produce until he's gotten a shot at a full season of baseball or more. Grissom has yet to be given a shot at a full season of baseball, and based on his minor league career, he deserves it.

His luck, by the way, has continued. He hit two balls about a 100 mph last game -- a lineout and a deep fly, both with xBA of about .400 -- and both went for outs.
 

Sin Duda

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It was mentioned here before, but in an interview with Alex Speier of the Glibe, Grissom said he lost 14 pounds when he got sick right before being called up, and is cheating right now to keep up with the fastball, making him susceptible to breaking stuff. The color guy (I think it was Merloni), immediately said he could see it in his swing and continued to comment on how that would lead to weak contact and Ks. At Worcester before getting sick his last week, he was working a 9 to 5 K/BB ratio in 36 PAs. He hit .333/.444/.400/.844. Overall, in MiLB he's hit .320/.408/.444/.852 in 1510 PAs. And in limited MLB .287/.339/.407/.746 in 236 PAs. I don't know why anyone would think he forgot how to hit. If we consider May his Spring Training, I'll bet we see him back to spraying lots of singles and doubles all over the field starting in June.
 

HfxBob

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It was mentioned here before, but in an interview with Alex Speier of the Glibe, Grissom said he lost 14 pounds when he got sick right before being called up, and is cheating right now to keep up with the fastball, making him susceptible to breaking stuff. The color guy (I think it was Merloni), immediately said he could see it in his swing and continued to comment on how that would lead to weak contact and Ks. At Worcester before getting sick his last week, he was working a 9 to 5 K/BB ratio in 36 PAs. He hit .333/.444/.400/.844. Overall, in MiLB he's hit .320/.408/.444/.852 in 1510 PAs. And in limited MLB .287/.339/.407/.746 in 236 PAs. I don't know why anyone would think he forgot how to hit.
For me the concern isn't about forgetting how to hit. It's more about the gulf between minor league and major league pitching.
 

chrisfont9

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And there will be some people who decry the trade even if Grissom puts up 3 WAR for the next 4 years beginning in 2025. And I disagree that we only have these first 45 games to evaluate Grissom. We have 60+ games he's played for Atlanta when he was healthy and he out up a 105 OPS+.
Yeah, this is why I don't understand people thinking he needs to get sent down. One, it's not happening, but two, he obviously doesn't need minor league reps. He's a major league 2b who's super young and talented and is coming off a disjointed spring.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Yeah, this is why I don't understand people thinking he needs to get sent down. One, it's not happening, but two, he obviously doesn't need minor league reps. He's a major league 2b who's super young and talented and is coming off a disjointed spring.
I think the weight loss due to the illness is a factor that isn't being fully appreciated. He's not the first player I've heard of losing weight due to an illness and not really recovering from it until the following season. It can be a challenge to maintain weight during the season as an everyday ballplayer, let alone add (back) pounds during the season. I wonder if he might need to be shut down (not sent down) just to gain the weight back, and with it whatever strength and speed he's lost.
 

Fishy1

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I think the weight loss due to the illness is a factor that isn't being fully appreciated. He's not the first player I've heard of losing weight due to an illness and not really recovering from it until the following season. It can be a challenge to maintain weight during the season as an everyday ballplayer, let alone add (back) pounds during the season. I wonder if he might need to be shut down (not sent down) just to gain the weight back, and with it whatever strength and speed he's lost.
Seems like they've been trying to give him time off against some righties. But also I think he's been a little snakebit the last few games. Lots of loud outs. Seems to me he's been heating up but has nothing to show for it.
 

chrisfont9

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I think the weight loss due to the illness is a factor that isn't being fully appreciated. He's not the first player I've heard of losing weight due to an illness and not really recovering from it until the following season. It can be a challenge to maintain weight during the season as an everyday ballplayer, let alone add (back) pounds during the season. I wonder if he might need to be shut down (not sent down) just to gain the weight back, and with it whatever strength and speed he's lost.
Nah, that's just about eating well and letting the weight return. He can do that and play. He's obviously playing at an extremely high level in terms of the physical demands of playing baseball. Just a tiny bit off with the timing, which will kill you in the majors.
 

iddoc

New Member
Nov 17, 2006
148
Nah, that's just about eating well and letting the weight return. He can do that and play. He's obviously playing at an extremely high level in terms of the physical demands of playing baseball. Just a tiny bit off with the timing, which will kill you in the majors.
I hope it’s that simple. However, as I’ve said before (sorry), 14 lbs seems like an astounding amount of weight to lose during an allegedly brief GI illness. If that number is accurate I suspect there may be more to the story.
 

joe dokes

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Jul 18, 2005
31,108
I think the weight loss due to the illness is a factor that isn't being fully appreciated. He's not the first player I've heard of losing weight due to an illness and not really recovering from it until the following season. It can be a challenge to maintain weight during the season as an everyday ballplayer, let alone add (back) pounds during the season. I wonder if he might need to be shut down (not sent down) just to gain the weight back, and with it whatever strength and speed he's lost.
Look no further than Bruins' James van Riemsdyk. No idea what either's illness was, but he said he'd lost at least 10 pounds and he was *never* quite what he was before he got sick in early spring. (He may also be just old, but that's his story)
 

Rovin Romine

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I think the weight loss due to the illness is a factor that isn't being fully appreciated. He's not the first player I've heard of losing weight due to an illness and not really recovering from it until the following season. It can be a challenge to maintain weight during the season as an everyday ballplayer, let alone add (back) pounds during the season. I wonder if he might need to be shut down (not sent down) just to gain the weight back, and with it whatever strength and speed he's lost.
14 pounds permanently lost does seem a bit extreme for a 3 day illness.

(That he was feeling shitty for some time afterward I could easily buy.)
 

cantor44

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Dec 23, 2020
1,655
Chicago, IL
Maybe it should be its own thread, "When do we start worrying about Vaughn Grissom?" I know, I know, "Pedroia." And Casas for that matter. But boy oh boy Grissom ain't showing much. How much time do you give him to be an everyday starter? Another month to see?
I suppose if the season is just about developing young players you can stick with him ...but they are barely out of the last WC, so at what point do you put the future on hold for the present?
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Jan 13, 2021
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You could say the same about Rafaela; at least he provides defense, but the bat has been terrible and not really showing any signs of life. I suspect we will continue to see more of Hamilton (and Romy) at 2b, but there doesn’t appear to be any viable replacement for Grissom’s spot on the roster, so I imagine his role is spot is fairly safe.

(Theoretically, they could replace him with Valdez. And there are signs of life with Rafaela’s bat, so there!)
 

YTF

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Maybe it should be its own thread, "When do we start worrying about Vaughn Grissom?" I know, I know, "Pedroia." And Casas for that matter. But boy oh boy Grissom ain't showing much. How much time do you give him to be an everyday starter? Another month to see?
I suppose if the season is just about developing young players you can stick with him ...but they are barely out of the last WC, so at what point do you put the future on hold for the present?
At what point? That's a good question, but we're currently seeing better than expected performances from Duran and Abreu which IMO has coincides with the opportunity for both to be everyday players. Heck, it even looks like Hamilton is worthy of his spot on the roster. At just 16 games played and 65 PAs I think Grissom is going to get a fairly long leash.

Edited to say that I'm a dope and not in the SoSH sense. I thought I was in a different thread. Deleted the errant part of my post. Carry on.
 
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simplicio

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Apr 11, 2012
5,884
Maybe it should be its own thread, "When do we start worrying about Vaughn Grissom?" I know, I know, "Pedroia." And Casas for that matter. But boy oh boy Grissom ain't showing much. How much time do you give him to be an everyday starter? Another month to see?
I suppose if the season is just about developing young players you can stick with him ...but they are barely out of the last WC, so at what point do you put the future on hold for the present?
I don't think we even begin to worry until July.
 

nvalvo

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Jul 16, 2005
21,863
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View attachment 83293


Looking at this, I see the hard-hit rate climbing from bad through okay all the way to good. I see the K-rate stabilizing and heading back down. I see the walk rate climbing off the floor. But BABIP is still ~.200.

(I included the earlier years to give a sense of where things stood when he had success.)

I think he's turning the corner.
 

Rovin Romine

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Looking at this, I see the hard-hit rate climbing from bad through okay all the way to good. I see the K-rate stabilizing and heading back down. I see the walk rate climbing off the floor. But BABIP is still ~.200.

(I included the earlier years to give a sense of where things stood when he had success.)

I think he's turning the corner.
I'd like to be optimistic. Per Savant he's pulling and going oppo in the same ratio (15 ABs each), but more often going up the middle (21). His main issue has been that he elevates when going oppo, but grounds out when pulling.

He's actually hitting .400 when going opposite. (Not a typo.) He's able to elevate the ball and hit it with moderate power. (28% hard hit.)

Going up the middle, he's .095. He hits a variety of pitches with power (33% hard hit), but mostly on the ground or liners to 2B. There may be some bad luck here, but not a ton IMO.

Pulling (historically a strength), he's .133. He's largely grounding out there.

****

Now that this has been going on for a month, I expect Faste to creep into action. Just like he almost did with Valdez and Yoshida, who also had pull/grounder issues.
 

absintheofmalaise

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Mar 16, 2005
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The gran facenda
On the broadcast last night they talked about how he has moved a little farther away from the plate lately because he was, this is my phrasing here, too tied up on balls on the inside part of the plate. Changes to hitting me cjanics, just like changes to pitching mechanics, have to be done in stages so the player gets comfortable with one change before moving to the next, if it's needed. It's frustrating for us as fans because we usually can't see what has changed and all we look for are immediate results at the plate or on the mound.