His defense seems solid enough with room to improve. His SS issues with the Braves appeared to be mostly in his head, as opposed to just not having the range or the arm or something like that.My concern is for the glove after he couldn't beat out Arcia at SS the year before last
For me, the few times I've seen him, he's passed the eye test as "decent" at second base.
Based on the little bits and pieces I've seen, I agree. His hands seem pretty good, and he seems to have enough range and arm.His defense seems solid enough with room to improve. His SS issues with the Braves appeared to be mostly in his head, as opposed to just not having the range or the arm or something like that.
I'm a little concerned that his actions are not "quick-twitch" enough. He got to a GB in the 2B hole but couldn't get his body torqued quickly enough to get the runner. Pedey is the benchmark here but Pedey definitely would have made the play on time. I've also seen slow throws that still beat the runner but I'd prefer throws with pace all the time (former First Sacker here who hated lollipop throws). And, regarding the potential DP Sox Pride mentioned above, Lumer was saying on the telecast it should have been turned but for a slow twist and turn from Grissom. Solid glove, needs to improve turn quickness/body pivot and throw velocity.Based on the little bits and pieces I've seen, I agree. His hands seem pretty good, and he seems to have enough range and arm.
I wasn't a big fan when he was acquired - I thought the faith in him far exceeded his actual proven capabilities - but I'm coming around. As is Grissom's bat!
Regarding the groundball in the hole last night, while he wasn't Pedey-quick on the transition, Smith did him no favors with the way he received the throw. Smith took the throw with his right foot on the bag and didn't really stretch at all. It more resembled a player taking a throw to put a tag on an incoming runner rather than a first baseman taking a throw for a force play. He let the throw get deep into his body rather than stretching out toward Grissom to shorten the time it took for the ball to hit his glove. Maybe the runner beats it anyway but it felt like a poor effort.I'm a little concerned that his actions are not "quick-twitch" enough. He got to a GB in the 2B hole but couldn't get his body torqued quickly enough to get the runner. Pedey is the benchmark here but Pedey definitely would have made the play on time. I've also seen slow throws that still beat the runner but I'd prefer throws with pace all the time (former First Sacker here who hated lollipop throws). And, regarding the potential DP Sox Pride mentioned above, Lumer was saying on the telecast it should have been turned but for a slow twist and turn from Grissom. Solid glove, needs to improve turn quickness/body pivot and throw velocity.
That's awful - Smith looks like he ran in from another position to cover. Can he really be a 1B by profession?Regarding the groundball in the hole last night, while he wasn't Pedey-quick on the transition, Smith did him no favors with the way he received the throw. Smith took the throw with his right foot on the bag and didn't really stretch at all. It more resembled a player taking a throw to put a tag on an incoming runner rather than a first baseman taking a throw for a force play. He let the throw get deep into his body rather than stretching out toward Grissom to shorten the time it took for the ball to hit his glove. Maybe the runner beats it anyway but it felt like a poor effort.
edit to add...
Found a video to make a screengrab. Tell me that a traditional 1B stretch with the left foot on the bag doesn't make this play far closer.
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Am I the only person who's really annoyed that the line on the graph showing the "MLB Average" is orange, but the legend shows it as red?
I'd agree that his lack of hitting is disappointing, bordering on troubling, but the fact that you're equating power with homers, limiting this to MLB PAs, and cherry picking a cut-off point really tells us all we need to know, doesn't it?Grissom is picking up a few singles and walks now. Still only 1 extra base hit on the season though.
What really concerns me is the apparent lack of power. He has not homered in his last 215 MLB PA's going back to September/22.
Username checks out.Am I the only person who's really annoyed that the line on the graph showing the "MLB Average" is orange, but the legend shows it as red?
No home runs in his last 215 MLB PA's is not really cherry-picking. I should have added, 6 EBH's in those 215 PA's.I'd agree that his lack of hitting is disappointing, bordering on troubling, but the fact that you're equating power with homers, limiting this to MLB PAs, and cherry picking a cut-off point really tells us all we need to know, doesn't it?
In other words, this is argument masquerading as analysis. If you wanted to know if he's physically capable of hitting a baseball out of the park, or his propensity for doubles. . .there's data you could access.
So his age and past performance in the minors mean nothing to you? OK then.No home runs in his last 215 MLB PA's is not really cherry-picking. I should have added, 6 EBH's in those 215 PA's.
It just kind of looks like MLB pitchers figured him out after that hot start in 2022.
And there seems to be an ever-widening gulf between the quality of MLB and minor league pitching, so why not focus on the MLB numbers.
I realize his minor league numbers have been great, he wouldn't be here if they weren't. But the MLB-MiLB pitching gulf seems to be getting more difficult to measure.So his age and past performance in the minors mean nothing to you? OK then.
Or... he could just be adjusting to the big leagues and going through a stretch where he's not hitting the ball very hard and he's not having much luck?I realize his minor league numbers have been great, he wouldn't be here if they weren't. But the MLB-MiLB pitching gulf seems to be getting more difficult to measure.
Because it's a tiny fucking sample size, dude! 160 plate appearances over two years isn't enough time to judge anybody. He may very well not be a major league player. That may be the case. But anybody can get ratfucked by BABIP and a cold stretch in 150 plate appearances.No home runs in his last 215 MLB PA's is not really cherry-picking. I should have added, 6 EBH's in those 215 PA's.
It just kind of looks like MLB pitchers figured him out after that hot start in 2022.
And there seems to be an ever-widening gulf between the quality of MLB and minor league pitching, so why not focus on the MLB numbers.
Is this an argument against Grissom, though? It seems more like an argument against the idea of building through the farm. What about this “growing gulf between MLB and MiLB” here wouldn’t apply to any minor league hitter?I realize his minor league numbers have been great, he wouldn't be here if they weren't. But the MLB-MiLB pitching gulf seems to be getting more difficult to measure.
The one thing that is great is the launch angle. Like Bogaerts he's very good at turning flares and burners into hits. Or at least he is when he's hot.Nothing about Grissom’s baseball savant profile looks great. Obvious caveat is that the sample sizes are super small.
https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/vaughn-grissom-687093?stats=statcast-r-hitting-mlb
He’d above average at making contact, but so far, in limited big league time, it hasn’t been good contact. Well below average on EV, hard hit %, way above on ground ball %.
Of course, it’s a tiny sample scattered over three seasons with extenuating circumstances for each of the last two. Would be interesting to know what the scouts are saying.
Try selecting gamelogs and then the statcast data. It lets you sort in some interesting ways. He's been (SSS) surprisingly good at going to the opposite field in all his seasons. For me that's pretty significant. He pulled in his first season with a lot of success, but not since then. He hasn't exactly gotten pull-happy this year, but the results on the pulled balls aren't there because he's grounding out. That's an approach/swing issue, not a skill/ability issue. Like Yoshida (and unlike Dalbec), he's not getting fooled on the pitches and striking out - he's hitting a variety of them into what should be his primary power area. Often with power. He's just putting most of them in the dirt.Nothing about Grissom’s baseball savant profile looks great. Obvious caveat is that the sample sizes are super small.
https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/vaughn-grissom-687093?stats=statcast-r-hitting-mlb
He’d above average at making contact, but so far, in limited big league time, it hasn’t been good contact. Well below average on EV, hard hit %, way above on ground ball %.
Of course, it’s a tiny sample scattered over three seasons with extenuating circumstances for each of the last two. Would be interesting to know what the scouts are saying.
I feel like it should be pointed out (again) that he reportedly lost 10+ pounds due to the flu-ish illness he suffered right before he was activated from the IL. It could be that he doesn't have the power behind his swing that he's used to and maybe that affects the timing/angle that would turn groundballs into line drives. Presumably he can recover that strength with time, and perhaps he's already starting to gain.Try selecting gamelogs and then the statcast data. It lets you sort in some interesting ways. He's been (SSS) surprisingly good at going to the opposite field in all his seasons. For me that's pretty significant. He pulled in his first season with a lot of success, but not since then. He hasn't exactly gotten pull-happy this year, but the results on the pulled balls aren't there because he's grounding out. That's an approach/swing issue, not a skill/ability issue. Like Yoshida (and unlike Dalbec), he's not getting fooled on the pitches and striking out - he's hitting a variety of them into what should be his primary power area. Often with power. He's just putting most of them in the dirt.
It should be fixable with an adjustment/coaching. In fact, when you look at his total number by date, he's launch angle has recently trended up somewhat. I wouldn't draw any conclusions from it, but for over a week before that it seems like 15 balls in play (excepting one) were at an LA of 14 or below. So I think that suggests he's not doing exactly the same thing up there.
View: https://twitter.com/gfstarr1/status/1797044202918015399?s=46Vaughn Grissom looked distraught when he spoke in the clubhouse just now:
"Very unexpected... Feel like I was just seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, so it sucks."
I'm not ready to say "lost season". But we are getting there. Feels like best case scenario at this point is about August 10?Went hunting for an update on this guy. Honestly, I forgot he existed. From CBS Sports yesterday, I read this as transitioning from rehabbing to pre-habbing:
Red Sox's Vaughn Grissom: Building strength in hamstrings
Rotowire 23 HRS AGO
Grissom is trying to regain strength in both hamstrings before the team maps out a plan for his return, MLB.com reports.
Grissom has been running the bases and moving better, per manager Alex Cora, but a rehab assignment is not imminent. He had been expected to be Boston's primary second baseman, but Grissom may not be guaranteed that role when he's ready. The Red Sox have been getting by with lefty hitters David Hamilton and Enmanuel Valdez for now.
Possibly sooner? Cora mentioned the possibility of Grissom starting a minor league rehab assignment at the end of the week.I'm not ready to say "lost season". But we are getting there. Feels like best case scenario at this point is about August 10?
I already forgot the name of the guy that the Sox picked up last offseason from the Royals that just sort of stayed injured the entire season.....Possibly sooner? Cora mentioned the possibility of Grissom starting a minor league rehab assignment at the end of the week.
But I don't know. Latest update is from the Red Sox website.
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Adalberto Mondesí. But it's actually a completely different situation in that Mondesí was acquired while rehabbing from a much more severe injury, and only had one year of control.I already forgot the name of the guy that the Sox picked up last offseason from the Royals that just sort of stayed injured the entire season.....
Adalberto Mondesi. He appears to basically be out of baseball for the time being. But that was some really weird ACL knee injury stuff. He just never recovered right.I already forgot the name of the guy that the Sox picked up last offseason from the Royals that just sort of stayed injured the entire season.....
Sure. Just thinking how generally snakebitten they've been on "starting" 2B the past two years. At least this season the backup plan has generally been working- I know Valdez general numbers haven't been impressive but since he was back (and before his recent temporary demotion) they've been good enough to make up for his poor defense and I'd grade him largely as a plus net player taken altogether. Past seasons it seemed like backups were just garbage. The depth this year has been impressive.Adalberto Mondesí. But it's actually a completely different situation in that Mondesí was acquired while rehabbing from a much more severe injury, and only had one year of control.
More like six. Ever since Pedroia retired, it's been a revolving door of injuries and underperformance.Sure. Just thinking how generally snakebitten they've been on "starting" 2B the past two years.
It wouldn't surprise me if Grissom sort of internalized a "holy shit they traded me for Chris Sale I better be ready" feeling in the offseason that might have led him to ignore some of the offseason stuff that Cora alluded to. He wouldn't be the first. Some guys in those situations press when healthy, some guys try to play through injury. Especially rookies.Grissom, it sounds like, had some hamstring issues, maybe didn't take the rest he should have and continued to try to ramp up despite having been injured over the offseason, and then had to shut down, came back to soon again, and is just now hopefully really, really, getting the rest he needs.
Emphasis on hopefully. My concern is that. given the trend of reinjuring himself, is that he hasn't been honest about pain/discomfort (because he wants to join the team or whatever the reason may be) and that the hamstring will again NOT be healed when he gets back, and that he has to shut down for the rest of the season.
I posted this in another thread but I think we'll see some clearing up of everything soon. My predictions:The whole situation looks further complicated with Yorke playing very well in Worcester, which is a really nice development.
The 2026 depth chart at 2B currently looks something like Story, Grissom, Yorke, Hamilton, Valdez, Meidroth, and Campbell, with Romy potentially in the mix as a capable short-side platoon for Hamilton/Valdez/Meidroth.
He doesn't have the arm for 3B and he's never played 1B. Why do you think he could be a reliable backup at either spot?Hamilton- backup corner IF '25
I agree in principle - we will see some guys moved to make room for everyone and use that trade to shore up other areas on the team.I posted this in another thread but I think we'll see some clearing up of everything soon. My predictions:
Story- starting SS for '25**
Grissom- starting 2B for '25**
Yorke- traded away at this deadline
Hamilton- backup corner IF '25
Valdez- traded away in the offseason
Meidroth- back at AAA. Good depth
Campbell- Incredibly good depth, but his defense from what I've read looks questionable. Likely a corner OF.
**Whoever gets injured first will find Mayer taking over at SS and Story moved to 2B or Grissom staying there.
It's really time to clear up some space. The Sox still have depth further down with (despite some struggles) Zanatello, Romero and Cespedes. I think Bloom is taking an unfair amount of criticism but one of his weaknesses was overvaluing prospects and holding them too long (Dalbec could've/should've been dealt after '21), and I don't think Breslow will make the same mistake there.
If they can live with his arm at SS they can live with it at 3B, no?He doesn't have the arm for 3B and he's never played 1B. Why do you think he could be a reliable backup at either spot?
That stuck out to me, too. Regardless, I think Hamilton is best as an add-on to a trade. I'm still not sold on him as getting on base enough to take advantage of his speed. He's a nice shiny object on a team in transition, but for the longer haul, I dont see it.He doesn't have the arm for 3B and he's never played 1B. Why do you think he could be a reliable backup at either spot?
First base is not that hard.He doesn't have the arm for 3B and he's never played 1B. Why do you think he could be a reliable backup at either spot?
I think I just heard Kyle Schwarber's walk-up music.First base is not that hard.
That I can seeWould love for him to get some OF reps next spring.
Doh..... sorry. Meant backup SS and 2B. Fixed.He doesn't have the arm for 3B and he's never played 1B. Why do you think he could be a reliable backup at either spot?
But Kyle Schwarber is just a shitty fielder altogether. A guy like Hamilton, who is at least adequate at SS and 2B, should be able to handle 1B just fine with a little practice. It might be a poor use of his skills if he were there in anything other than an emergency, but he could do it.I think I just heard Kyle Schwarber's walk-up music.
I agree 100%, I like Hamilton but he just doesn't really fit into the long term roster picture.That stuck out to me, too. Regardless, I think Hamilton is best as an add-on to a trade. I'm still not sold on him as getting on base enough to take advantage of his speed. He's a nice shiny object on a team in transition, but for the longer haul, I dont see it.
Prom Night.First base is not that hard.