The Newest Vaughn

nvalvo

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There isn't really at RHH 1B/3B "role." Casas and Devers are full-time cornerstone hitters who do not need to be platooned. That sort of roster-building approach is an artifact of the 2023 question of Casas' adaptability to ML pitching. . .probably with a touch of PTSD from the 2021/22 Bobby Dalbec 1B experience.
I see that, yeah. They still need days off, or at least at DH, to keep them from wearing down, and it makes sense for that player to be RHH. So it’s a small role, and maybe it should just be filled in house by Pablo Reyes or Bobby Dalbec. But if Solano were game for a role backing up three infield positions and probably getting a few DH reps himself, I’d be interested.
 

YTF

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Or Jamie Westbrook: https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=westbr000jam#




There isn't really at RHH 1B/3B "role." Casas and Devers are full-time cornerstone hitters who do not need to be platooned. That sort of roster-building approach is an artifact of the 2023 question of Casas' adaptability to ML pitching. . .probably with a touch of PTSD from the 2021/22 Bobby Dalbec 1B experience.
Generally speaking I think you may be right, but here's the reason I see a use (perhaps not need, but use) for the RHH 1B/3B. When considering days off for Devers and Casas, the handedness of the opposing pitcher could be considered and depending on who the player might be he could serve as a RH DH option if Yoshida needs a day/days off.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I see that, yeah. They still need days off, or at least at DH, to keep them from wearing down, and it makes sense for that player to be RHH. So it’s a small role, and maybe it should just be filled in house by Pablo Reyes or Bobby Dalbec. But if Solano were game for a role backing up three infield positions and probably getting a few DH reps himself, I’d be interested.
I think the bolded is the catch. How many starts is he looking at with the Sox (barring injuries)? Solano started 95 games and played in 134 total games last year for the Twins. Is there even 50 total starts for him at 1B, 3B, and DH with the Sox roster as is? Tack on another 25-30 games where he pinch hits or they sit some guys down in the midst of a blowout. Is there a likelihood that he can do better than 50-80 games played if he hooks on somewhere else?
 

Fishy1

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Jamie Westbrook's career is so interesting. He's had all kinds of success in the minors as a hitter but has never even got an at-bat in the bigs. He's got a little pop, decent-to-good plate discipline, a very low K-rate for this day and age, was in AA by 22, and has almost always had a wrc+ of around 120 in AA-AAA, and yet... not even a single at-bat in the bigs. Is his defense horrible? I don't get how this guy hasn't even gotten a cup of coffee.
78940
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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I think the bolded is the catch. How many starts is he looking at with the Sox (barring injuries)? Solano started 95 games and played in 134 total games last year for the Twins. Is there even 50 total starts for him at 1B, 3B, and DH with the Sox roster as is? Tack on another 25-30 games where he pinch hits or they sit some guys down in the midst of a blowout. Is there a likelihood that he can do better than 50-80 games played if he hooks on somewhere else?
The amount of playing time he would get is highly dependent on injuries. If Devers, Story, and Casas each play 150+ games, there probably isn’t a ton of playing time for him. With injuries, there presumably will be plenty of at bats. Last years team, after all, gave 600+ PA to Reyes, Valdez, Chang, and Urias.

If he’s holding out for a guaranteed full time role, good luck to him.
 

Rovin Romine

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I see that, yeah. They still need days off, or at least at DH, to keep them from wearing down, and it makes sense for that player to be RHH. So it’s a small role, and maybe it should just be filled in house by Pablo Reyes or Bobby Dalbec. But if Solano were game for a role backing up three infield positions and probably getting a few DH reps himself, I’d be interested.
Sort of thinking out loud here to clarify a bit, but there are only really 13 roster spots, and so, in the broadest sense, 13 roles. You have your starting C, 1B, 2B, 3B, SS, RF, CF, LF, for 8 spots. 9 is your second catcher (a modern necessity). So that gives you 4 roster spots remaining.

Ideally, you want those 4 players to sub all the non-C roles occasionally. So at least 1 OF and 1 IF. But given that players are not infinitely fungible, as a practical reality you're going to have weaker starters in some areas, either defensively or offensively. So you're more likely to fill the 4 spots with 2 OF and 2 IF - either for platoon hitting, or defense, or both. You could also use one as a dedicated DH, or a DH who can take the field in one or more positions.

Here, we have (essentially) 1 of the 4 already taken by Yoshida, if you view him as a half-DH, half-OF (instead of one of the 3 OF starters.) Because Yoshida is limited in the OF, the 2nd of the 4 should go to a backup OF who can play center (or all positions). That's basically Refsnyder, who is a platoon bat as well, mitigating against Abreu. Assuming Yoshida (and Abureu) hit, that's pretty good construction right there. And if they don't, it's not like Refsnyder will be wasted.

So at this point, we have 2 spots left and we're without any IF coverage. We need someone to spell the defensively challenging IF positions (no matter who our starters are). That looks to be Reyes, who is a RHH who in a good year might be a league average bat. (But shouldn't be a Hernandez/Chang black hole in a bad year.)

So that leaves #4.

So, if I ignored the roster apart from the starters, and selected someone for IF coverage, I'd probably want a +defensive 3B player who could also cover one or more of the IF positions. A RHH Refsnyderian bat would do, if I were pairing with Devers and Casas, but a league average normal bat would probably also work. The first problem is finding a guy who'll fit all those criteria yet who won't be starting elsewhere.

The second problem is that every game you play Yoshida at DH, you're improving the OF. So that means if you use spot #4 for a plus bat, you'll have to find ways of getting that player into the game. And there, we have the logical forks - if the bat is so good to demand it (and the defense is not bad), you're basically looking at a starting player. Unless they're a super-sub plus bat, and those types are rare. Otherwise you're trading down the offense of Devers and Casas for an uptick on defense. A significant one on Dever's part, perhaps.
 

Rovin Romine

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Generally speaking I think you may be right, but here's the reason I see a use (perhaps not need, but use) for the RHH 1B/3B. When considering days off for Devers and Casas, the handedness of the opposing pitcher could be considered and depending on who the player might be he could serve as a RH DH option if Yoshida needs a day/days off.
I don't think Cora really does that though.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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The amount of playing time he would get is highly dependent on injuries. If Devers, Story, and Casas each play 150+ games, there probably isn’t a ton of playing time for him. With injuries, there presumably will be plenty of at bats. Last years team, after all, gave 600+ PA to Reyes, Valdez, Chang, and Urias.
Of course. I'm looking at it more from his perspective. If he's looking for a job where he has a chance to start 100+ games, he's not looking to bank on or hope for players getting hurt (no player wants to court that karma). No one is questioning whether he'd be useful for the Sox, but that isn't the whole equation.
 

simplicio

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I don't think it's hard to count to 100 for Solano. I'm guessing Masa is still taking ~50 games in the OF, +20 starts at 1B, +20 more DH, + a few around the infield.

Pinch hitting is also going to be a little more important this year with the warm up rule, and that's going to reward positional versatility.
 

Rovin Romine

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I don't think it's hard to count to 100 for Solano. I'm guessing Masa is still taking ~50 games in the OF, +20 starts at 1B, +20 more DH, + a few around the infield.

Pinch hitting is also going to be a little more important this year with the warm up rule, and that's going to reward positional versatility.
There is no rational world where the plan is for Donovan Solano to get 70 games at DH.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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His chance almost anywhere to start 100+ games is going to be dependent on injuries though, no? He only started that many last year because Kirilloff and then Gallo got hurt. Bench players get bigger roles due to injury and underperformance. If there were a a team out there willing to give a 35 year old Solano a ton of playing time, he’d probably be signed by now.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I don't think it's hard to count to 100 for Solano. I'm guessing Masa is still taking ~50 games in the OF, +20 starts at 1B, +20 more DH, + a few around the infield.

Pinch hitting is also going to be a little more important this year with the warm up rule, and that's going to reward positional versatility.
Warm up rule?
 

simplicio

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A pitcher who is sent out to warm up for an inning must face at least one batter.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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A pitcher who is sent out to warm up for an inning must face at least one batter.
I looked it up, and what I was able to find was that there were just 24 instances last season in which a pitcher warmed up and did not face a batter. I'm not sure the rule will be all that impactful on pinch hitting overall.
 

kazuneko

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Generally speaking I think you may be right, but here's the reason I see a use (perhaps not need, but use) for the RHH 1B/3B. When considering days off for Devers and Casas, the handedness of the opposing pitcher could be considered and depending on who the player might be he could serve as a RH DH option if Yoshida needs a day/days off.
Solano should never be DH unless he ends up playing so much that he needs a day off from the field (which would only happen with an injury). If Yoshida needs a day off, Casas or Devers should DH. With the current roster that would probably mean starting Cron at first (who is a much better fielder than Casas). If Solano was brought on board that could mean DHing Casas, Grissom (if he struggles in the field) or Devers, though Solano’s far better at 1b and 2b than 3b.
 

kazuneko

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I don't think it's hard to count to 100 for Solano. I'm guessing Masa is still taking ~50 games in the OF, +20 starts at 1B, +20 more DH, + a few around the infield.

Pinch hitting is also going to be a little more important this year with the warm up rule, and that's going to reward positional versatility.
Yeah, I don’t see him getting many ABs at DH (not when he’s a better fielder than every other player on the roster who plays the same positions), but 20+ starts at 1b, 20+ starts at 3b and 20+ starts at 2b could make sense. Inevitably he has enough positional flexibility that he will get a bunch of extra ABs due to injuries as well..
 

Rovin Romine

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Yeah, I don’t see him getting many ABs at DH (not when he’s a better fielder than every other player on the roster who plays the same positions), but 20+ starts at 1b, 20+ starts at 3b and 20+ starts at 2b could make sense. Inevitably he has enough positional flexibility that he will get a bunch of extra ABs due to injuries as well..
In 2023, Raffy started 151 games at 3B (and was injured.) That seems to be the target.
Casas played in 125 games of the 147 he was active. But this includes him coming in as a sub and games where he was PH for. Even so, it was his rookie year, so I think it's safe to read that he's intended to be full time also.

But the intention is to downgrade the team for them to take the field for 135-140 games so that Donovan Solano can get those games? Which means you're committing to replacing either Casas', Devers' or Yoshida's bat with Donovan Solano's for 50+ games?, plus every time you DH him.

20+ starts at 2B due to an injury to Grissom makes sense. . .but Grissom is a also a RHH, so there's no platoon pairing when he returns. (Valdez makes more sense from that perspective.) And speaking of Valdez, you'd basically committing to not giving him ML at-bats in favor of Donovan Solano, which kills his development and probably his dings his trade value.

***
Just to be clear, I'm not saying Solano is a bad player (although his fielding may be catching up with his age.) Nor am I saying he wouldn't immediately have a role, say if Pablo Reyes, also a RHH, wasn't on the team. I mean, would I swap a year of Reyes for Solano at the same salary for a year? Probably. (But that requires Rafaela sticking for sure so he can play backup SS.)

But the argument that this particular 37 year old player would be brought on and somehow accommodated. . .well, I suppose weirder things have happened, but I just can't see it being a goal of this club.
 

Scoops Bolling

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Jamie Westbrook's career is so interesting. He's had all kinds of success in the minors as a hitter but has never even got an at-bat in the bigs. He's got a little pop, decent-to-good plate discipline, a very low K-rate for this day and age, was in AA by 22, and has almost always had a wrc+ of around 120 in AA-AAA, and yet... not even a single at-bat in the bigs. Is his defense horrible? I don't get how this guy hasn't even gotten a cup of coffee.
View attachment 78940
Never heard of him, but I've been following the minors for 20 years at this point and nothing in that profile says "potential MLB piece". Took him multiple years just to get a solid line at AA, and his AAA profile is pretty much organizational filler to a T. There's many younger, better players in front of him; he's a guy who gets a dozen PAs in August as a 30 year old and a couple stories about long time minor leaguer makes good get written.

Occasionally guys come out of nowhere, but even Melvin Mora got a cup of coffee by 27. This guy is just a AAA player, not even sure I'd call him AAAA.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Never heard of him, but I've been following the minors for 20 years at this point and nothing in that profile says "potential MLB piece". Took him multiple years just to get a solid line at AA, and his AAA profile is pretty much organizational filler to a T. There's many younger, better players in front of him; he's a guy who gets a dozen PAs in August as a 30 year old and a couple stories about long time minor leaguer makes good get written.

Occasionally guys come out of nowhere, but even Melvin Mora got a cup of coffee by 27. This guy is just a AAA player, not even sure I'd call him AAAA.
So what you're saying is Westbrook might be the new Fitzy? The guy who turns some heads in spring training but is so far down the depth chart he's unlikely to ever be added to the 40-man, let alone see MLB action? (but we'll see plenty of folks calling for him to be brought up)
 

nvalvo

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I looked it up, and what I was able to find was that there were just 24 instances last season in which a pitcher warmed up and did not face a batter. I'm not sure the rule will be all that impactful on pinch hitting overall.
There will be more PHs sent up if the opposing manager can’t just immediately counter.
 

nvalvo

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I think the bolded is the catch. How many starts is he looking at with the Sox (barring injuries)? Solano started 95 games and played in 134 total games last year for the Twins. Is there even 50 total starts for him at 1B, 3B, and DH with the Sox roster as is? Tack on another 25-30 games where he pinch hits or they sit some guys down in the midst of a blowout. Is there a likelihood that he can do better than 50-80 games played if he hooks on somewhere else?
Well, as of today he’d be the starting 2B in April.
 

Rovin Romine

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So what you're saying is Westbrook might be the new Fitzy? The guy who turns some heads in spring training but is so far down the depth chart he's unlikely to ever be added to the 40-man, let alone see MLB action? (but we'll see plenty of folks calling for him to be brought up)
I think the only reason why people were calling for Fitzy is that he was a hot-hand and we had an obvious need for him at a position he could fill.

Sometimes I think guys like Fitzgerald and Westbrook are acquired knowing that unless something really odd happens, they're likely to be break-glass type of depth players. But then, even in "break-glass" situations, they're never really used and age out from their mid to their late twenties. So what's the point of having them at all? I mean, sure you want your upcoming prospects to be playing next to competent individuals at every stage of their game, but there's a certain level of fungibility at AAA.

To state it another way, "Are you really afraid of losing a guy like Fitzy, who you are privately convinced will never develop into a ML player?" If no, why not call up one of those guys when they're white hot in AAA and see if you can't catch a bit of lighting in a bottle? I mean, assuming you need someone in that role at that time. Sure, you'll have to DFA somebody sooner or later, but there's literally no downside to it. Instead you get retreads (both good and bad - 2021 is a case study), or guys who seem to be locked in to a role of "that shuttle guy who will never ever develop" like Arauz was.
 

kazuneko

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In 2023, Raffy started 151 games at 3B (and was injured.) That seems to be the target.
Casas played in 125 games of the 147 he was active. But this includes him coming in as a sub and games where he was PH for. Even so, it was his rookie year, so I think it's safe to read that he's intended to be full time also.

But the intention is to downgrade the team for them to take the field for 135-140 games so that Donovan Solano can get those games? Which means you're committing to replacing either Casas', Devers' or Yoshida's bat with Donovan Solano's for 50+ games?, plus every time you DH him.

20+ starts at 2B due to an injury to Grissom makes sense. . .but Grissom is a also a RHH, so there's no platoon pairing when he returns. (Valdez makes more sense from that perspective.) And speaking of Valdez, you'd basically committing to not giving him ML at-bats in favor of Donovan Solano, which kills his development and probably his dings his trade value.

***
Just to be clear, I'm not saying Solano is a bad player (although his fielding may be catching up with his age.) Nor am I saying he wouldn't immediately have a role, say if Pablo Reyes, also a RHH, wasn't on the team. I mean, would I swap a year of Reyes for Solano at the same salary for a year? Probably. (But that requires Rafaela sticking for sure so he can play backup SS.)

But the argument that this particular 37 year old player would be brought on and somehow accommodated. . .well, I suppose weirder things have happened, but I just can't see it being a goal of this club.
It’s not accommodating, it’s called fielding the most competitive team. Seriously, why would anyone have a “goal” of playing their worst fielder in the field for as many games as possible?
The idea was that when Yoshida played LF one of our dynamic duo at the corners would DH, with Solano being in the field. Who do you think should DH if/when Yoshida plays the field? I don’t think it’s controversial to say that bad fielders should DH when there are going to be better fielders in the lineup who can play their position with more skill.
 
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Rovin Romine

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It’s not accommodating, it’s called fielding the most competitive team. Seriously, why would anyone have a “goal” of playing their worst fielder in the field for as many games as possible?
The idea was that when Yoshida played LF one of our dynamic duo at the corners would DH, with Solano being in the field. Who do you think should DH if/when Yoshida plays the field? I don’t think it’s controversial to say that bad fielders should DH when there are going to be better fielders in the lineup who can play their position with more skill.
Because only one of the players is "the worst fielder" which would be Devers. So you're proposing putting Devers in the DH slot and signing Solano to play 3B? While Yoshida plays LF? For how many games? How much better would Solano be than Valdez or Chron at DH?

If you're serious about this you can actually run the numbers to show us an approximation of what you're talking about, and why Solano would want to sign here.

Who knows? - it may be a good idea when examined.
 

kazuneko

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Because only one of the players is "the worst fielder" which would be Devers. So you're proposing putting Devers in the DH slot and signing Solano to play 3B? While Yoshida plays LF? For how many games? How much better would Solano be than Valdez or Chron at DH?
If you're serious about this you can actually run the numbers to show us an approximation of what you're talking about, and why Solano would want to sign here.

Who knows? - it may be a good idea when examined.
Simplicio originally suggested that Yoshida will probably play around 50 games in LF. I left that position unchallenged and proposed that if they did go with a different DH for that many games then it should be Devers or Casas who DHs - especially if they signed someone like Solano, who is better than both of them with the glove (though, to be fair, who isn’t?).
He had suggested that a Solano (or someone similar) could get some DH ABs but I just don’t see why anyone would want to DH a better defensive player for someone who isn’t good in the field (and neither Casas or Devers are good).
 
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simplicio

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Because they're both still young and they're both your starting corner infielders for the next 5 years or so, so you keep running them out there in an effort to improve their defense.
 

kazuneko

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Because they're both still young and they're both your starting corner infielders for the next 5 years or so, so you keep running them out there in an effort to improve their defense.
I don’t think Casas missing twenty games in the field is going to ruin his development.
Devers has already played 7 years and over 7000 innings at 3b and remains terrible. As I’ve mentioned before, since the advent of the DH 50 years ago, only one other player (on a team that has had a DH option) has had as bad a fielding percentage as Devers and been allowed to play in the field for as many innings. He’s also the worst 3rd baseman of the Statcast era (by OAA -since 2016) and has the second worst DRS of all major league fielders (at any position) since he broke into the league. He is what he is and that’s a really bad fielder. The Sox have -if anything- been too patient. It’s time they start to care more about putting the best team on the field and less about his development (and/or ego).
 

Rovin Romine

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I don’t think Casas missing twenty games in the field is going to ruin his development.
Devers has already played 7 years and over 7000 innings at 3b and remains terrible. As I’ve mentioned before, since the advent of the DH 50 years ago, only one other player (on a team that has had a DH option) has had as bad a fielding percentage as Devers and been allowed to play in the field for as many innings. He’s also the worst 3rd baseman of the Statcast era (by OAA -since 2016) and has the second worst DRS of all major league fielders (at any position) since he broke into the league. He is what he is and that’s a really bad fielder. The Sox have -if anything- been too patient. It’s time they start to care more about putting the best team on the field and less about his development (and/or ego).
I'm not sure why the interlocking consequences keep being left out of this discussion.

If the Sox want to "put the best team on the field" that they can, they have to weigh downgrading Devers' bat to upgrade 3B defense with Solano, who may or may not be a good defender at this point, giving that he's aging. Further, if Devers is DHing, that pushes Yoshida into the field, they you have to weigh displacing the 3rd OF's defense and offense (whomever it is at the time) against the merit of the 37 year old Solano.

Likewise if you want to take Casas out and DH him to play Solano at 1B. Devers in the field, Yoshida in the field, meaning Casas' defense (and the third OF's offense and defense out) out in favor of Solano's bat and defense at 1B. (Or you could just take Casas completely out and leave Yoshida at DH.)

Because you're not engaging with that dynamic, this is starting to look like a pet-player signing-solution looking for a problem.

I mean, I completely agree with you on Devers' defensive shortcomings thusfar. But is Solano the fix, given the rest of the roster?
 

kazuneko

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I'm not sure why the interlocking consequences keep being left out of this discussion.

If the Sox want to "put the best team on the field" that they can, they have to weigh downgrading Devers' bat to upgrade 3B defense with Solano, who may or may not be a good defender at this point, giving that he's aging. Further, if Devers is DHing, that pushes Yoshida into the field, they you have to weigh displacing the 3rd OF's defense and offense (whomever it is at the time) against the merit of the 37 year old Solano.

Likewise if you want to take Casas out and DH him to play Solano at 1B. Devers in the field, Yoshida in the field, meaning Casas' defense (and the third OF's offense and defense out) out in favor of Solano's bat and defense at 1B. (Or you could just take Casas completely out and leave Yoshida at DH.)

Because you're not engaging with that dynamic, this is starting to look like a pet-player signing-solution looking for a problem.

I mean, I completely agree with you on Devers' defensive shortcomings thusfar. But is Solano the fix, given the rest of the roster?
I’m confused. This was all based on the premise that Yoshida might play LF around fifty times over the course of the season. I’m not suggesting that Devers (or Casas’s) bat ever be taken out of the lineup or that Devers become the fulltime DH. I wouldn’t mind the latter option but only if the Sox were replacing him with someone like Matt Chapman -not Donovan Solano. The idea was DHing Devers and/or Casas only on days that Yoshida didn’t DH.
 

Rovin Romine

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I’m confused. This was all based on the premise that Yoshida might play LF around fifty times over the course of the season. I’m not suggesting that Devers (or Casas’s) bat ever be taken out of the lineup or that Devers become the fulltime DH. I wouldn’t mind the latter option but only if the Sox were replacing him with someone like Matt Chapman -not Donovan Solano. The idea was DHing Devers and/or Casas only on days that Yoshida didn’t DH.
So you think the best club the Sox can field over the season is to have: 25 games with Yoshida in LF, Devers at DH, and Solano at 3B; plus, 25 games with Yoshida in LF, Casas at DH, and Solano at 1B.

So, why 25 games for each? Why not 10 each, or 40 each? Why split the appearances evenly?
 

kazuneko

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So you think the best club the Sox can field over the season is to have: 25 games with Yoshida in LF, Devers at DH, and Solano at 3B; plus, 25 games with Yoshida in LF, Casas at DH, and Solano at 1B.
So, why 25 games for each? Why not 10 each, or 40 each? Why split the appearances evenly?
Ideally you’d have Devers DH more than Casas as I think there is more reason to hope that Casas could still be a good fielder with more experience in the field. That said, Solano has been worse at 3b than 1b over the course of his career. Ideally, that role would be played by someone who is better at both corner IF spots than Solano is, as he is actually best at 2b. While that gives him the added advantage of being a solid backup for Grissom, it makes him less ideal for the role of backup 3b/1b.
The other free agents available are also not great matches. Evan Longoria’s bat has declined but he is still defensively strong enough to fill that function at 3b; he has no experience playing 1b. At 1b, CJ Cron is the reverse, strong at 1b but with no history of playing 3b.
Probably the best option that may be available is JD Davis, who was uncharacteristically strong defensively at 3b in 23’ and has good numbers at 1b. There are rumors that he’s on the trade market now that Giants have signed Matt Chapman.
 
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Ale Xander

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Does this mean we get Sale back for 3-4 starts?

This is really unfortunate for the new acquisition process.

I really don’t want to see Valdez butcher 2B for too long.
 

CR67dream

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Alex Cora on Red Sox 2B Vaughn Grissom's timetable: "Mid-April probably, late April."
Eh, not great news, but not really surprising. There is no sense in rushing, they have options in the infield, including Rafaela if need be, as Cora mentioned yesterday, if Valdez looks awful or they need Reyes elsewhere.

Long term health is much more important, and I've seen nothing that indicates this is likely to be an ongoing issue once resolved, so get it resolved 100%.
 

bosox188

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The Breslow era really feels indistinguishable from the Bloom era.
From what we saw of Bloom's tenure, I doubt he would have pulled the trigger on the trade in the first place. Breslow can't predict injuries, he went out and addressed the positional need about as well as one could have. I mean, certainly I think they should have signed another RHH in general but it's not like Breslow sat on his hands and tried to get by with smoke and mirrors at the 2B position.
 

grimshaw

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This is more of an amusement than being reactionary but the total fWAR combined from every player to man 2b since 2018 is 2.3.

Story 2.6
Holt 2.5
Iglesias (lol) .8
Arroyo .7
Reyes .5
And then 15 guys near or below replacement level.

An average season or three from the same second baseman will be a delight when it happens. It definitely makes sense how they have tried to stock up on the middle via draft lately even with Story.
 

CR67dream

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To reiterate...
How do we define "serious", though? It was obviously always something more than a minor tweak, and for these types of injuries time can be the best healer. And given the totality of the circumstances, why take any chances?

Expanding on another post, there is absolutely nothing "amazing" about an injury like this happening. Take a look around the league, every team is dealing with their own injury problems. Everything comes with a risk attached. It's the cost of doing business in the sports industry.
 

YTF

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FWIW, I never really expected Grissom's return much before mid April. When they announced he would miss the start of the season, extended ST in an effort not to rush his progress and eventual return seemed to make sense to me. The amendment to probably late April is a bummer, but if that's what it takes to get him healthy, so be it. Hopefully things don't turn out to be more serious moving forward.
 

E5 Yaz

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FWIW, I never really expected Grissom's return much before mid April. When they announced he would miss the start of the season, extended ST in an effort not to rush his progress and eventual return seemed to make sense to me. The amendment to probably late April is a bummer, but if that's what it takes to get him healthy, so be it. Hopefully things don't turn out to be more serious moving forward.
This seems the rational take, especially considering that contending for a playoff spot this year would be a surprise. No sense running a guy out there in April until he's truly ready to go.
 

CR67dream

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This seems the rational take, especially considering that contending for a playoff spot this year would be a surprise. No sense running a guy out there in April until he's truly ready to go.
Also, after the west coast start, they next play in Boston, Pittsburgh, and Cleveland, none of which are known for balmy April weather. Not ideal for a healing/newly healed hammy. I'm not saying it's a determining factor, but I'm pretty sure it's part of the calculus.
 

Fishy1

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Let the guy heal up. This is not a disaster.

Valdez, Reyes, and Rafaela will all probably get some time out there. If Valdez hits and fields just fine, it actually will create an interesting problem for the FO. Would love to see him handle the position averagely. The guy can clearly hit, and it would make him a much more interesting trade chip.
 

CR67dream

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If Valdez fields fine, then we suddenly don’t need Grissom at all.
I'm pretty sure they're counting on his (right handed) bat to be a huge part of what he brings to the table, so I kind of couldn't disagree more. Especially since it's not like Grissom is seasoned at the position. I think the Sox would expect some growing pains from Grissom there.

Edit: I guess what I'm saying is that I think they were counting on some early defensive issues at 2nd, even with Grissom. Valdez being serviceable or better would be awesome, but the RHH with power and can rake would be missed in the longer term, I think.
 
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