The Michael McCorkle "Mac" Jones Thread

Ed Hillel

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Did he take a big hit or get piled on? Don’t remember seeing anything.
He got drilled pretty hard in the back on the fumble TD, and I think he got hammered pretty hard on a couple of hurries, as well. Maybe that crazy catch by Myers up the sideline.
 

Mooch

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he got killed on a roughing the passer penalty with a high low hit that was negated by a chop block and was visibly hobbled after it
That high hit should have resulted in an ejection. Dude left his feet to deliver a very late hit up high.
 

radsoxfan

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Back pain after a football game with negative X rays leaves:

-Subtle nondisplaced fracture (rib or spine)
-Bone contusion
-Muscle contusion/hematoma

Less likely options being:
-Kidney or spleen contusion/laceration
-Pneumothorax (prob more chest than back pain for that)

For the game itself, not Mac’s best effort but mediocre line and a bunch of #3 WR would be tough for any QB.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Back pain after a football game with negative X rays leaves:

-Subtle nondisplaced fracture (rib or spine)
-Bone contusion
-Muscle contusion/hematoma

Less likely options being:
-Kidney or spleen contusion/laceration
-Pneumothorax (prob more chest than back pain for that)

For the game itself, not Mac’s best effort but mediocre line and a bunch of #3 WR would be tough for any QB.
His 1 INT was a clear PI on a well placed jump ball in the end zone. 1st and goal from the 1 on the first drive changes the entire tone of that game. Bummer.
 

SMU_Sox

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His 1 INT was a clear PI on a well placed jump ball in the end zone. 1st and goal from the 1 on the first drive changes the entire tone of that game. Bummer.
Interesting - I thought it was underthrown and you want to have that, for lack of better descriptors, more to the right and further upfield. Not maybe super egregious of an underthrow but I didn’t think it was well placed. Maybe I am wrong. Seemed to hang forever too.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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To my untrained eyes, his ball seemed more off today than at any time last season. Scarnecchia's Razor suggests the culprit is likely the well known
OL problems. Maybe something to do with his mechanics and hurrying? Maybe I am wrong.

As a side note, I really want to see what season two Mac looks like with some time to throw.

Hopefully they can remedy the line and we get a chance to really evaluate this offense.
 

rodderick

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His 1 INT was a clear PI on a well placed jump ball in the end zone. 1st and goal from the 1 on the first drive changes the entire tone of that game. Bummer.
That pass hung in the air for a week and was way under thrown. It's a good Flaco special, but a poor deep ball to an open receiver. Lead Parker further to the corner of the end zone and it's a touchdown.
 

lars10

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Interesting - I thought it was underthrown and you want to have that, for lack of better descriptors, more to the right and further upfield. Not maybe super egregious of an underthrow but I didn’t think it was well placed. Maybe I am wrong. Seemed to hang forever too.
If Parker had been (not held and) allowed to come back to the ball it's probably even more egregious PI or a catch. It may have been under thrown or it could have been what Flacco has basically gotten calls on his entire career.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Interesting - I thought it was underthrown and you want to have that, for lack of better descriptors, more to the right and further upfield. Not maybe super egregious of an underthrow but I didn’t think it was well placed. Maybe I am wrong. Seemed to hang forever too.
Thought the same. Also wondered if he was intending an outside throw and missed.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Interesting - I thought it was underthrown and you want to have that, for lack of better descriptors, more to the right and further upfield. Not maybe super egregious of an underthrow but I didn’t think it was well placed. Maybe I am wrong. Seemed to hang forever too.
That pass hung in the air for a week and was way under thrown. It's a good Flaco special, but a poor deep ball to an open receiver. Lead Parker further to the corner of the end zone and it's a touchdown.
Honestly, I only watched the live and one replay they showed. It wasn't a perfect ball by any means. He had another few yards up and to the sideline for a perfect throw. But as far as a true jump ball goes, I don't think that one was horrible. Had Parker been able to actually fight for it, there's no way Howard is able to bat it up in the air like that. It probably ends up an incomplete on, which is a fine outcome when taking a shot like that into the end zone.
 

joe dokes

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To my untrained eyes, his ball seemed more off today than at any time last season. Scarnecchia's Razor suggests the culprit is likely the well known
OL problems. Maybe something to do with his mechanics and hurrying? Maybe I am wrong.
My take as well. Somehow, it seemed as if the ball was taking even longer than last year to its target. I found that surprising (as well as disturbing).
 

Cellar-Door

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He was really bad yesterday I thought. Mac is a guy who needs good blocking and a good play script to succeed, he's just not an elite talent, he's an NFL QB because he's good at executing. Last year he had a good line and one of the best playcallers in the league (for all the complaining, yes Josh is a very good playcaller) yesterday we saw what happens when the line struggles and the playcalling and game plan aren't good.
 

Mooch

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He was really bad yesterday I thought. Mac is a guy who needs good blocking and a good play script to succeed, he's just not an elite talent, he's an NFL QB because he's good at executing. Last year he had a good line and one of the best playcallers in the league (for all the complaining, yes Josh is a very good playcaller) yesterday we saw what happens when the line struggles and the playcalling and game plan aren't good.
Yeah, he's essentially Chad Pennington. Pretty good QB, not elite. Accurate, mediocre arm, very smart player.

You can win in the NFL with guys like that but you need better than average players around him.
 

Jimbodandy

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Yeah, he's essentially Chad Pennington. Pretty good QB, not elite. Accurate, mediocre arm, very smart player.

You can win in the NFL with guys like that but you need better than average players around him.
You need a line and a plan. He was a middle tier QB on a 10-7 team as a rookie with those two things, even without above-average skill units. Jury is out on whether they have the OL and/or plan this year. There was drain on both of those this offseason.
 

BaseballJones

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Interesting - I thought it was underthrown and you want to have that, for lack of better descriptors, more to the right and further upfield. Not maybe super egregious of an underthrow but I didn’t think it was well placed. Maybe I am wrong. Seemed to hang forever too.
It was a little under thrown, but that's generally okay if your receiver is a 6'3" jump ball specialist. He couldn't go back and get it because the defender was literally pinning him down.
 

tbb345

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Yeah, he's essentially Chad Pennington. Pretty good QB, not elite. Accurate, mediocre arm, very smart player.

You can win in the NFL with guys like that but you need better than average players around him.
That’s funny that was my exact player comp for him last year.

Pretty much agree with everything you said there. He needs a strong OL, running game and receivers that can get separation. I think the Patriots have one out of those 3 things.

It’s a shame because I’m not sure that the team will be able to even make a sound evaluation of how good he Is by the time his rookie contract is up because of how badly the rest of the roster was bungled
 

Cellar-Door

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Yeah, he's essentially Chad Pennington. Pretty good QB, not elite. Accurate, mediocre arm, very smart player.

You can win in the NFL with guys like that but you need better than average players around him.
Honestly it's mostly line and coaching to me, the pass catchers are fine, our TEs both got open a good amount, the WRs outside Parker were okay, good offensive staffs scheme guys open, we did not seem to be doing much on that front, we seem to be running a really basic vanilla offense, and it's predictable.

Edit- as an example, across the league play action is one of the most successful pass actions.... we ran PA twice yesterday (for 2 completions and 22 yards).... that's just bad coaching straight up.
 
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Gash Prex

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Its interesting how this specific game is a referendum on Mac for a lot of the posters here. He was not good. But we watched some abysmal performances from all time/top QBs yesterday in week 1 working through some of the same issues the Pats are currently.
 

Ed Hillel

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He was really bad yesterday I thought. Mac is a guy who needs good blocking and a good play script to succeed, he's just not an elite talent, he's an NFL QB because he's good at executing. Last year he had a good line and one of the best playcallers in the league (for all the complaining, yes Josh is a very good playcaller) yesterday we saw what happens when the line struggles and the playcalling and game plan aren't good.
I mean he was 21-30 (70%) with a few bad throws and a jump ball that was clearly PI and should have led to 7. He got blindsided quickly when Henry missed an assignment. He had an average NFL game with average to below averageish skill talent around him and a poor OL play and coaching.
 

soxhop411

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Its interesting how this specific game is a referendum on Mac for a lot of the posters here. He was not good. But we watched some abysmal performances from all time/top QBs yesterday in week 1 working through some of the same issues the Pats are currently.
Also. We have been terrible @ mia for a while now. And that was even with brady at QB. Playing at MIA has been a house of horrors for a while it seems.
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/tom-brady-career-record-at-miami
 

lexrageorge

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That’s funny that was my exact player comp for him last year.

Pretty much agree with everything you said there. He needs a strong OL, running game and receivers that can get separation. I think the Patriots have one out of those 3 things.

It’s a shame because I’m not sure that the team will be able to even make a sound evaluation of how good he Is by the time his rookie contract is up because of how badly the rest of the roster was bungled
That's probably too pessimistic of a view.

Drafting Strange was intended to ensure that OL is not a weakness long term. Brown had a terrible game, and there were some communication breakdowns, but the OL is probably easiest to fix. And the WR that can get separation got an unfortunate and unexpected injury, but should be back later this year. Add in oodles of cap space next offseason and there will be future opportunities to improve the roster.

I do think we'll be able to assess Mac by the time this season is over. He was bad yesterday; some of those bad underthrows and missed locations had nothing to do with the OL or the WR's lack of separation or the play calls from the sideline. But he also got hurt at some point in the game, and the defense really didn't do anything to bend the field either. But the real tendencies tend to become clear after a season's worth of games.
 

Cellar-Door

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I mean he was 21-30 (70%) with a few bad throws and a jump ball that was clearly PI and should have led to 7. He got blindsided quickly when Henry missed an assignment. He had an average NFL game with average to below averageish skill talent around him and a poor OL play and coaching.
completion percentage is a worthless stat, it's particularly a worthless stat when 7 of his 21 completions came at or behind the LOS.
His ANY/A was 5.38 that's very bottom of the league territory. It was a very poor performance. And just watching it, his placement was not very good, even when not pressured and even to open WRs... and that's Mac's strength.

I'm willing to let coaching take a lot of the blame right now, because last year Josh correctly realized Mac is much better off play action and tried to use it a good amount (as MIA did with Tua who had something like a 45% play action rate this game):
View: https://twitter.com/Underdog__NFL/status/1569333534409506818


However, Mac also needs to play better. If he can't overcome a line that isn't good (but also isn't one of the worst in the league) and not having a superstar at WR... then he's a JAG.
 

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For all the talk about Mac getting in shape and working with Tom House, I haven't seen much of a change in his throwing ability. Am I off here? He still looks like a college QB trying to make it in the NFL.
 

54thMA

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Cellar-Door

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For all the talk about Mac getting in shape and working with Tom House, I haven't seen much of a change in his throwing ability. Am I off here? He still looks like a college QB trying to make it in the NFL.
Only 1 game, but yeah I didn't see anything more on his throws, but we'll see. Might also be something that takes another year, 1 year to get in shape and start building foundations, another year to add the functional on top.
 

Reverend

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He was really bad yesterday I thought. Mac is a guy who needs good blocking and a good play script to succeed, he's just not an elite talent, he's an NFL QB because he's good at executing. Last year he had a good line and one of the best playcallers in the league (for all the complaining, yes Josh is a very good playcaller) yesterday we saw what happens when the line struggles and the playcalling and game plan aren't good.
Yeah, he's essentially Chad Pennington. Pretty good QB, not elite. Accurate, mediocre arm, very smart player.

You can win in the NFL with guys like that but you need better than average players around him.
In no way do I disagree, and absolutely in no way am I suggesting anything or even suggesting a career arc, but I also remember the early appraisals of Tom Brady.

That offense caused the media to retire the dink and dunk offense as a pejorative. He was also criticized for having a weak arm; years later, commentators raved about his long ball.

And what he did with respect to his body…

If course, the key here probably is simple: Tom Brady is a fucking maniac.

The quarterback position is really quite weird. I recall some baseball players saying that the most under-discussed benefits of steroids was that it took so damn long to really learn to hit that a person’s athleticism left them just as they got good at it, and steroids allowed them to play into that period.

I’m not claiming Brady has used PEDs. But it is a protected position, physically speaking.

I’m a bit all over the place here, apologies, but I think my main point is that there have been like three different, distinct iterations of Tom Brady that have been wildly successful. Which suggests to me that we don’t really know sometimes what makes a successful quarterback (in a in a sport that evolves a lot too). Which is also why Tom Brady fascinates me.

In conclusion: Tom Brady
 

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Seriously, though: I agree with many here that I’m not sure how much QB quality can really be assessed behind a poor OL.
 

radsoxfan

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Only 1 game, but yeah I didn't see anything more on his throws, but we'll see. Might also be something that takes another year, 1 year to get in shape and start building foundations, another year to add the functional on top.
I was also sort of holding out hope to see a little more zip after a full offseason to work on his body and mechanics, but yeah didn't see any of that week 1. Pennington-esque soft tosses, while mainly on target.

He has a decent enough arm to get the ball down the field on the deep ball, but not being able to throw 15-20 yard passes with the zip of the upper level QBs is concerning re: his ceiling.

As others have said, a good line and above average weapons would obviously help a ton given his overall acumen. But at the moment he has neither.
 

Jimbodandy

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I was also sort of holding out hope to see a little more zip after a full offseason to work on his body and mechanics, but yeah didn't see any of that week 1. Pennington-esque soft tosses, while mainly on target.

He has a decent enough arm to get the ball down the field on the deep ball, but not being able to throw 15-20 yard passes with the zip of the upper level QBs is concerning re: his ceiling.

As others have said, a good line and above average weapons would obviously help a ton given his overall acumen. But at the moment he has neither.
Not an expert, but one game is not enough time to judge. Of course, his throws may appear the same. Maybe they are. But I wouldn't feel comfortable judging that for a few more weeks at least. It would be like judging a pitcher's first few starts back from a shoulder issue. Or a better example, watching a few games after an NBA player tweaks his form. There's bad behavior to unlearn. Progress isn't linear, etc.

We'll know soon enough.
 

joe dokes

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Its interesting how this specific game is a referendum on Mac for a lot of the posters here. He was not good. But we watched some abysmal performances from all time/top QBs yesterday in week 1 working through some of the same issues the Pats are currently.
I don't see much referendum-ing here. Mostly observations. And a lot of guessing as to why it was so and how it might improve.
 

radsoxfan

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Not an expert, but one game is not enough time to judge. Of course, his throws may appear the same. Maybe they are. But I wouldn't feel comfortable judging that for a few more weeks at least. It would be like judging a pitcher's first few starts back from a shoulder issue. Or a better example, watching a few games after an NBA player tweaks his form. There's bad behavior to unlearn. Progress isn't linear, etc.

We'll know soon enough.
Agreed 100%, too early to tell. And not a ton of throws with time when extra zip was even required.

But when you're hoping someone can break out 94 mph and you only see 88 mph game 1, that's still a bit of a bummer.
 

Cellar-Door

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Seriously, though: I agree with many here that I’m not sure how much QB quality can really be assessed behind a poor OL.
Our O-line isn't that poor, it's not good, but it isn't the Giants out there, or rookie year Burrow's CIN. It's struggling, but not horrific.
I do think the playcalling is a major issue, no play-action, not much in the way of pre-snap shifts/movement. Basically all the things good offensive coordinators have moved to in an effort to make things easier on their QB, line and passcatchers... all the stuff we don't do. Maybe we should have a thread on it, but peak Dynasty Patriots were innovative on offense, at the cutting edge of new ideas and strategies. A decade plus later, we look like dinosaurs.
 

Gash Prex

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Moving on from the current discussions, Mac was extremely active at the line yesterday making a ton of adjustments. So many that I was worried he would run out the play clock like he did a couple of times his rookie year. He looked like this from what I recall from the first half - I don't know if there was as much adjusting in the 2nd half. Still waiting for the All 22

View: https://twitter.com/PhilAPerry/status/1569325208409874437


I saw complaints about this throw in the gamethread but this looked like a good throw - clearly couldn't step into it but still put in it in the right place

View: https://twitter.com/ezlazar/status/1569349261195706370
 

Reverend

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Our O-line isn't that poor, it's not good, but it isn't the Giants out there, or rookie year Burrow's CIN. It's struggling, but not horrific.
I do think the playcalling is a major issue, no play-action, not much in the way of pre-snap shifts/movement. Basically all the things good offensive coordinators have moved to in an effort to make things easier on their QB, line and passcatchers... all the stuff we don't do. Maybe we should have a thread on it, but peak Dynasty Patriots were innovative on offense, at the cutting edge of new ideas and strategies. A decade plus later, we look like dinosaurs.
Very much agree. The NFL over the last 25 years has seen so much crazy evolution in terms of continual progressive counterstrategies. A big part of what makes the game so fascinating.

(And I suppose the “discovery” if things like the efficacy of “passing” back in the day suggests that this continual evolution has been a feature for some time, huh?)
 

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I think it is too early to judge his arm-strength progress on just one game, especially a week 1 game where the over-reactions are at their peak. But I am having trouble envisioning him ever making a throw like this one Herbert made yesterday.


I think Mac right now is a very high-floor/low-ceiling QB. Maybe there are some throws from last season I don't remember where he threw a bullet like that, but I can't think of any off the top of my head. I was watching that play live yesterday, and my first thought was, "Mac cannot make a throw like that." I haven't had to worry about a Patriots QB's throwing ability since 1993, which is kind of crazy when you think about it. Bledsoe had his many flaws, but he could sling it through a brick wall.