The Michael McCorkle "Mac" Jones Thread

scott bankheadcase

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Purdy and Jimmy G have virtually identical stats this season. Both at 67% comp %, Purdy is at 8.1 Y/A, Jimmy 7.9 Y/A. I'd say they are both largely system QBs playing in a top 3 system when you include the supporting cast. Ironically Jimmy G had a lower INT % this season which is usually his issue. It will be interesting to see if/when Purdy needs to throw how he performs given he hasn't had a 300yd passing game yet and over 250yds only once. He has done a great job doing what he has been asked he just hasn't been asked to do much.
Small point, but the niners threw for over 300 yards only once this season… in the game where the Chiefs blew them out.

Purdy isn’t going to throw over 300 (just like Lance and Jimmy didn’t) by design.
 

BigJimEd

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I wonder how soon it will be before we learn the makeup of the 2023 coaching staff.

If BB gets cute with ambiguous titles and roles again, and/or tries to pretend rolling out the same staff is a good idea because they will have “gelled” for a year, people are going to lose their minds.

RKK has to be aware of this and pushing for a clearly-defined, experienced-in-their-roles staff that’s settled ASAP, right?
Yes, Kraft is going to push football decisions based on fans losing their minds.

Kraft already learned to let experts be the experts. Doesn't mean they don't have discussions or any input but he knows who the experts are and it's not the fans.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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I’m no expert either, but his footwork is atrocious. Footwork is incredibly important for a QB, so this is not good, nor is it new. Like, there are very specific steps a QB should take when coming out from under center.
I used to coach with a guy who was a QB, and he was constantly yelling at our QB (his son) to set his feet. The last time I saw Mac set his feet was, well, never.
I have to wonder if the ankle injury played a part in this. I am grimly curious if he’ll have off-season surgery on it.
 

rodderick

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I mean, it could have. But I remember him having sloppy footwork and throwing off his back foot last season as well.
I was watching some Trevor Lawrence the other day and the way he seems to always have a solid base and the knee bend to load up and put some torque on the throw while having his feet pointed straight at the target is just crazy for a guy his size. I don't recall him being anywhere near that clean with his footwork last season, which to me points directly to Pederson having an impact in the consistency of his accuracy. Hopefully we grab someone who can help Mac in a similar way.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Lazar has his review of Mac up:

https://www.patriots.com/news/season-review-evaluating-mac-jones-second-season-and-how-the-patriots-move-for

Positives: Vertical touch throws, under center play action, Coverage manipulation/anticipation
Areas to improve: Playing under pressure, throwing on the move/off-platform

Some of Lazar's "positives" read more like gripes about the offensive play design.

The first step toward building a high-functioning offense with Jones at quarterback is something they did tap into during the 2022 season: vertical touch throws to produce big plays.

New England made it an emphasis based on Jones's college film to give him more opportunities to take deep shots. The results were mixed, but Jones showed good touch and accuracy on 20-30 yard throws often enough to make this a foundational element of the offense.
That's a positive.
Our biggest gripe with the offensive coaches is how they approached play-action. Both in play design and cutting the rate nearly in half.

The Patriots went from 14th in play-action rate during Mac Jones's rookie season to 30th in his second season. New England averaged nine yards per pass attempt on under-center play-action over the last two seasons but only called it 16.7% of the time in 2022.
Lazar also notes that the offense is doing play action differently in 2022. Instead of really selling the fake to hold the linebackers, they are just trying to get a safety into the box and then rely on the receivers running vertical routes to win their matchups.
Furthermore, the Patriots changed the way they scheme up play-action passes. For two decades, the Pats designed plays to influence the second level of the defense by mimicking their gap and lead schemes to pull linebackers into the line of scrimmage.

This season, the Pats are attacking defensive structures with vertical play-action concepts. They're using run personnel and formations to get defenses to pack the box in single-high safety coverages. Then, they're stressing those post-safety structures with vertical route combinations.

There's a method to the madness with the shift in design for play-action. However, it's not a fit for the quarterback and is a far more volatile approach. For example, the 2022 Pats are designed more like Bruce Arians's "no risk it, no biscuit" offense rather than the efficient designs we've seen for 20-plus years.
The one thing that is a bit weird about Lazar's critique is that he likes Mac throwing downfield with vertical touch routes but that seems like what the current play actioon offense is trying to get him, no?
The other major issue we've had with the offense's design is the lack of motion at the snap (example: jet motion). According to NextGenStats, the Patriots were 29th in motion at the snap rate, using it on 10.4 percent of their offensive plays. Miami, the NFL's most efficient passing offense this season with a healthy Tua Tagovailoa, was first in motion at the snap rate at 44.3 percent.

The positive plays' general theme is clean pockets, where Jones has an 89.0 passing grade from Pro Football Focus, which is the fifth-best grade in the NFL this season. There are concerns about Jones's play under pressure. But it's evident on film that he can be a productive quarterback when given time in the pocket.
The weaknesses are predictable and have been discusse here a lot.
 

Traut

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On some level Jones seems to lack maturity. This is a really stupid thing to do when you play for Bill Belichick.

“Mac Jones wasn’t happy,” said Simms. “He was telling people he wasn’t happy. He was calling people about, ‘Hey, can you help us with ideas and do stuff like that?’ From my understanding, Belichick found out all these things. He found out that Mac was talking to people, and all this, and there was some back-channel conversations going on behind Belichick’s back. And I think that’s where it did get personal.”

https://www.audacy.com/weei/sports/patriots/mac-jones-complained-about-patriots-this-season?fbclid=IwAR3V5zewOQHi_MH9kOUJVOrADLYZUY3Bluhwb3a1hRsT0UG4c-MKXu4JriU
 

Dogman

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Yeah, I don't buy that for a moment.

Chris Simms has hated BB for years now. He led the charge to slight Brady any chance he got when Brady was a Patriot. Once Brady left, that has stopped.

Simms is a noted moron.
 

Justthetippett

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Yeah, who knows. But even if Mac did this and then Bill talked to him and he stopped, I don’t think anything is irreparable. Bill knows: (1) Mac just wants to win; and (2) Mac probably acts like an idiot sometimes. It doesn’t help their relationship, but their ability to be successful is what each cares about primarily.
 

rodderick

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I don't trust Simms on the evaluation and analysis front as I think he's incredibly pig headed, can't admit when he was wrong and uses rankings and stuff as a way to get back at the myriad petty grudges he holds, but I don't see any reason to believe he'd make this up. Maybe his sources are feeding him bad information, but if he's willing to put it out there I think someone did tell him that happened (either on the Patriots or, and that'd be my guess, Josh or someone close to Josh).
 

lexrageorge

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I don't trust Simms on the evaluation and analysis front as I think he's incredibly pig headed, can't admit when he was wrong and uses rankings and stuff as a way to get back at the myriad petty grudges he holds, but I don't see any reason to believe he'd make this up. Maybe his sources are feeding him bad information, but if he's willing to put it out there I think someone did tell him that happened (either on the Patriots or, and that'd be my guess, Josh or someone close to Josh).
Except Simms has often had a real axe to grind against both Brady and Belichick, and has made outlandish claims before. After the Tomase Spygate debacle, we should never discount the possibility of a guy like Simms either misreporting or exaggerating or outright lying just to get clicks.
 

rodderick

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Except Simms has often had a real axe to grind against both Brady and Belichick, and has made outlandish claims before. After the Tomase Spygate debacle, we should never discount the possibility of a guy like Simms either misreporting or exaggerating or outright lying just to get clicks.
How does this make Bill look bad? If anything it's a hit piece on Mac. I guess you could say the intent was for it to sound like Bill put together such a horrible coaching staff his QB was calling other teams for help, but from what I've seen it's been received more as "who does Mac think he is?" than anything else.
 

Traut

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I don't trust Simms on the evaluation and analysis front as I think he's incredibly pig headed, can't admit when he was wrong and uses rankings and stuff as a way to get back at the myriad petty grudges he holds, but I don't see any reason to believe he'd make this up. Maybe his sources are feeding him bad information, but if he's willing to put it out there I think someone did tell him that happened (either on the Patriots or, and that'd be my guess, Josh or someone close to Josh).
Jones was pouting and throwing tantrums on the field. This isn’t a stretch.
 

joe dokes

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On some level Jones seems to lack maturity. This is a really stupid thing to do when you play for Bill Belichick.
On that same level, though, it's possible Belichick agrees with him.

Even if its true -- and even as shitty as Simms is, I suspect he actually heard this, no worse than 3rd hand -- I'd prefer to know who Jones said it to. It could be less about immaturity and more about choosing better friends. I suspect most every player has confidants he complains to. Parents, sibling, SO, "old friends."
 

FL4WL3SS

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I, for one, can't wait for the end of the Mac Jones era. It's just.... Not fun.

I'm obviously on board with him getting next year as a prove-it year, especially if BB invests heavily in the offense. It's just really hard for me to root for this guy. I don't really know if the story is true or not, but the fact that it feels plausible to me is enough to remind me how much I can't stand him.
 

Jinhocho

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If true, it is just a horrible look for Mac. Talk about raising questions internally and externally about his judgement.
 

Deathofthebambino

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In 2014, Simms said Tom Brady wasn't a top 5 QB, and Andrew Luck was better because he didn't have Jonas Gray to help him like Tom did:

https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/chris-simms-says-tom-brady-is-not-a-top-5-nfl-quarterback/

In 2015, he argued that Elway was better than Brady:

https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/chris-simms-says-john-elway-better-than-tom-brady/

He was all in on Tom Brady being a cheater because of deflategate:

https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/deflategate-chris-simms-tom-brady-bill-belichick/

He continued to argue in 2016 that Brady wasn't a top 5 QB:

https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/chris-simms-tom-brady-not-top-5-quarterback/

He ranked Brady as the 9th best QB in 2019:

https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/chris-simms-struggles-to-make-case-against-tom-brady/

Last year, when Brady knocked Rodgers out of the playoffs, it was because poor Aaron had a bad team around him, despite home field:

https://musketfire.com/2021/01/26/patriots-news-chris-simms-worst-tom-brady-aaron-rodgers-take-imaginable/

The dude literally has a job, and a career because he's been willing to troll Tom Brady and the Patriots through an unprecedented run of success. Nothing he says should ever, ever be taken as truth without an actual named source:

https://www.patspropaganda.com/history-tom-brady-hot-taeks-chris-simms/
 

EvilEmpire

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Eh. If Simms is bullshitting, I'm sure the denials will be loud and numerous. That story involves more than a handful of people, so I think it is probably more likely than not, but who knows.

Well, of course BB and Jones know.

If true, it isn't good. But Mac is young. Tough love from BB will probably sort it, and I doubt it is the kind of mistake Mac would make twice.
 

rodderick

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In 2014, Simms said Tom Brady wasn't a top 5 QB, and Andrew Luck was better because he didn't have Jonas Gray to help him like Tom did:

https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/chris-simms-says-tom-brady-is-not-a-top-5-nfl-quarterback/

In 2015, he argued that Elway was better than Brady:

https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/chris-simms-says-john-elway-better-than-tom-brady/

He was all in on Tom Brady being a cheater because of deflategate:

https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/deflategate-chris-simms-tom-brady-bill-belichick/

He continued to argue in 2016 that Brady wasn't a top 5 QB:

https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/chris-simms-tom-brady-not-top-5-quarterback/

He ranked Brady as the 9th best QB in 2019:

https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/chris-simms-struggles-to-make-case-against-tom-brady/

Last year, when Brady knocked Rodgers out of the playoffs, it was because poor Aaron had a bad team around him, despite home field:

https://musketfire.com/2021/01/26/patriots-news-chris-simms-worst-tom-brady-aaron-rodgers-take-imaginable/

The dude literally has a job, and a career because he's been willing to troll Tom Brady and the Patriots through an unprecedented run of success. Nothing he says should ever, ever be taken as truth without an actual named source:

https://www.patspropaganda.com/history-tom-brady-hot-taeks-chris-simms/
I think we should separate between analysis and information.
 

BigJimEd

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Does national make a difference? Media members do make things up and/or run with poorly sourced rumors. They also put their own spin on things to slant a story a certain way. Sources also have their own motivations and slant things. Do people doubt that? Some media members are good at verifying things and reporting things straight with little bias as possible. Simms has given me no reason to think he is one of them so I'll take anything he says with a mountain of salt until I see evidence otherwise. He's a national media member due to his last name and his ability to spew hot takes.

If true, as @joe dokes said, we need more details to judge anything. More likely one of the regular Pats reporters will be able to dig into it.
 

rodderick

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Does national make a difference? Media members do make things up and/or run with poorly sourced rumors. They also put their own spin on things to slant a story a certain way. Sources also have their own motivations and slant things. Do people doubt that? Some media members are good at verifying things and reporting things straight with little bias as possible. Simms has given me no reason to think he is one of them so I'll take anything he says with a mountain of salt until I see evidence otherwise. He's a national media member due to his last name and his ability to spew hot takes.

If true, as @joe dokes said, we need more details to judge anything. More likely one of the regular Pats reporters will be able to dig into it.
That's perfectly reasonable. What to me is unreasonable is to just assume he's lying because he has a personal vendetta against Bill.
 

j44thor

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Whether or not there is accuracy in the Simms report it was somewhat telling that Bill wouldn't commit to Mac being NE's starter in 2023 simply referring to him as someone that can be an NFL starter. Perhaps I'm reading too much into it but typically I'd expect Bill to say something like Mac is on the roster and will be competing for a spot just like every other player on the roster. Seems to be saying he is a starter, not necessarily my starter. I do wonder if they will seriously consider moving away from Mac this off-season. Bill is probably furious internally over the sideline antics and at the same time realizes Mac has a limited ceiling that makes it not worth putting up with the distractions.

I believe their #1 in 2020 was Trey Lance. If Purdy leads SF to the SB they may have a tough decision to make on Lance. If he becomes available I wonder if Bill would consider making a splash and trading for Lance who I'm sure they scouted heavily given there was a decent chance he would be available to them.
 

Ferm Sheller

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Whether or not there is accuracy in the Simms report it was somewhat telling that Bill wouldn't commit to Mac being NE's starter in 2023 simply referring to him as someone that can be an NFL starter. Perhaps I'm reading too much into it but typically I'd expect Bill to say something like Mac is on the roster and will be competing for a spot just like every other player on the roster. Seems to be saying he is a starter, not necessarily my starter. I do wonder if they will seriously consider moving away from Mac this off-season. Bill is probably furious internally over the sideline antics and at the same time realizes Mac has a limited ceiling that makes it not worth putting up with the distractions.

I believe their #1 in 2020 was Trey Lance. If Purdy leads SF to the SB they may have a tough decision to make on Lance. If he becomes available I wonder if Bill would consider making a splash and trading for Lance who I'm sure they scouted heavily given there was a decent chance he would be available to them.
The 49ers paid a king's ransom to move up to take Lance at #2 overall only two years ago, so I think he's worth much more to them than he is to any other team. I don't see the Pats (of all teams) meeting what I expect would be the 49ers's (high) asking price.
 

8slim

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Whether or not there is accuracy in the Simms report it was somewhat telling that Bill wouldn't commit to Mac being NE's starter in 2023 simply referring to him as someone that can be an NFL starter. Perhaps I'm reading too much into it but typically I'd expect Bill to say something like Mac is on the roster and will be competing for a spot just like every other player on the roster. Seems to be saying he is a starter, not necessarily my starter. I do wonder if they will seriously consider moving away from Mac this off-season. Bill is probably furious internally over the sideline antics and at the same time realizes Mac has a limited ceiling that makes it not worth putting up with the distractions.

I believe their #1 in 2020 was Trey Lance. If Purdy leads SF to the SB they may have a tough decision to make on Lance. If he becomes available I wonder if Bill would consider making a splash and trading for Lance who I'm sure they scouted heavily given there was a decent chance he would be available to them.
Bill had to frantically walk back his comments in that presser about spending. I don’t think it’s worth parsing his words to an insane degree. Mac’s almost certainly going to be the starter next season, unless the new OC says absolutely not and they find someone else.
 

rodderick

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Trey Lance has thrown 450 passes (or about 10 Tom Brady games worth) in live action since 2018 and you'd have to make a decision on his fifth year option fairly quickly. Don't want him at the price it'd take to get him, too much of an unknown and now he adds injury concerns to the list of things to be weary about.
 

Cellar-Door

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Trey Lance has thrown 450 passes (or about 10 Tom Brady games worth) in live action since 2018 and you'd have to make a decision on his fifth year option fairly quickly. Don't want him at the price it'd take to get him, too much of an unknown and now he adds injury concerns to the list of things to be weary about.
Honestly Lance would be really cheap for an acquiring team. SF would have to eat his remaining $11M signing bonus. The team getting him gets 2 years at 3.7M and 5.3M, if he's great you pick up his 5th year, he won't meet the play time requirements so it will be the lowest # unless he is voted into the Pro-Bowl, and if he's good enough for that next year you're happy to pay it. You could also decline the 5th year option, and work out and extension, or simply sign him after year 4.

I think SF will be hesitant to trade him unless it's because they sign or trade for a top QB. Even in Lance loses his job to Purdy, he's a high upside backup given that Purdy hasn't played enough games to be confident you know how he'll develop, and Shanahan hasn't had a single QB stay healthy for a full season basically ever.
 

rodderick

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Honestly Lance would be really cheap for an acquiring team. SF would have to eat his remaining $11M signing bonus. The team getting him gets 2 years at 3.7M and 5.3M, if he's great you pick up his 5th year, he won't meet the play time requirements so it will be the lowest # unless he is voted into the Pro-Bowl, and if he's good enough for that next year you're happy to pay it. You could also decline the 5th year option, and work out and extension, or simply sign him after year 4.

I think SF will be hesitant to trade him unless it's because they sign or trade for a top QB. Even in Lance loses his job to Purdy, he's a high upside backup given that Purdy hasn't played enough games to be confident you know how he'll develop, and Shanahan hasn't had a single QB stay healthy for a full season basically ever.
I was more talking about "price" in terms of draft picks. Not concerned about his current salary, but concerned I wouldn't have enough time to get a gauge on what he is as a player before having to make a big money commitment to him or potentially lose him.
 

Cellar-Door

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I was more talking about "price" in terms of draft picks. Not concerned about his current salary, but concerned I wouldn't have enough time to get a gauge on what he is as a player before having to make a big money commitment to him or potentially lose him.
Oh yeah, definite concern. If they want to move on from Mac, Lance wouldn't be high on my list of options.
 

JimD

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Mac has alternately frustrated and disappointed me, but I have zero issue with him seeking outside help. The Patriots did everything possible to screw him up this season, between Belichick's hubris in deciding to turn the offense over to Matt Patricia, and then compounding that by bringing in Joe Judge to coach the quarterbacks, despite the questions about Judge's handling of another first-round QB named Jones. It's also a poor look that the people inside the Pats seem to be the ones leaking the negative stories about Mac. At this point, it would probably be best for Jones to be traded to another team where he can get a fresh start, since I don't believe that he's Belichick's long-term answer as Patriots QB any more.
 

johnmd20

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Mac has alternately frustrated and disappointed me, but I have zero issue with him seeking outside help. The Patriots did everything possible to screw him up this season, between Belichick's hubris in deciding to turn the offense over to Matt Patricia, and then compounding that by bringing in Joe Judge to coach the quarterbacks, despite the questions about Judge's handling of another first-round QB named Jones. It's also a poor look that the people inside the Pats seem to be the ones leaking the negative stories about Mac. At this point, it would probably be best for Jones to be traded to another team where he can get a fresh start, since I don't believe that he's Belichick's long-term answer as Patriots QB any more.
The Patriots had a failed coach as their offensive coordinator. A failed coach guy who has never coached offense before. Literally the worst of both worlds.

What Belichick did this year is inexcusable. And, because of that, the offense looked like it was being coached by a guy who failed as a coach.

edit - all of this to say, the Patriots had a chance to make the playoffs easily this year and they blew it because the offense had no chance.
 

snowmanny

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The Patriots had a failed coach as their offensive coordinator. A failed coach guy who has never coached offense before. Literally the worst of both worlds.

What Belichick did this year is inexcusable. And, because of that, the offense looked like it was being coached by a guy who failed as a coach.

edit - all of this to say, the Patriots had a chance to make the playoffs easily this year and they blew it because the offense had no chance.
"Inexcusable" is a pretty strong word. Belichick is a guy that does out of the box things. Four quarterbacks. Lacrosse players. QBs as WRs. WRs as DBs. There was some story about Parcells having to veto his 8 DB defense on the Giants or something. This out of the box thing didn't work and I agree it cost them the playoffs, as did the fumble against the Bengals and the lateral play against the Raiders and ten things Mac Jones did that can't be blamed on the OC.

Inexcusable would be running it back, or his boss letting him run it back.
 

Salva135

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Mac is not the guy, but I am fine with seeing him play for his supper (second contract) next year. I'm not interested in bringing anyone else in the league to win a few extra games. I'm more interested in who the OC is, and how BB handles the coaching staff. If they don't get that right then it doesn't matter what QB is taking snaps.
 

Toe Nash

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These rumors and stuff are interesting and cathartic for anyone who watched the disaster of a unit that was the offense this year, but they don't really matter too much to decision-making. Mac is not so bad that you have to ditch him now, nor would you get much for him if you traded him now at the possible nadir of his value. They also don't have a top pick and Bill trading a huge package to get into the top would be extremely shocking. As for FA, they're not really a Geno Smith or Jimmy G away from winning IMO and their cap space is limited anyway.

Unless something falls into their lap, Mac will be the de facto starter going into camp. As others have said I hope he has some real competition but this is basically the make or break year for him where you have to decide whether to pick up the fifth year and start to decide whether he's worth a second contract. As noted above getting someone with good experience to help him with his footwork and other fundamentals I think could go a long way, but in general the offseason is up to him and the coaching / personnel decisions that BB makes.

If I were running the team in Madden I would probably ditch his ass and tank next year because the top QBs in the AFC are just so good, but I also would have tanked the Cam year. Obviously that's not what Bill is going to do nor should he. I expect another 100 pages on this thread next season.
 

Traut

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Wave a magic wand and give Mac better players and coaches on offense.

What do people think Mac Jones’s ceiling is as a QB in terms of a comparable player?
 

JM3

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Wave a magic wand and give Mac better players and coaches on offense.

What do people think Mac Jones’s ceiling is as a QB in terms of a comparable player?
My comp from the morning of the draft was Cousins/Goff for his ceiling. Don't feel much differently now...

Mac is not good at like running or throwing or processing.

& I don't think he's smart. & he has a DUI.
He not, though. He has league average arm strength. His throws lack zip & his deep ball isn't deep enough.

There literally is not a successful QB in the league with his physical attributes.
Goff & Cousins are the closest comps in terms of ceiling.
I was surprisingly grumpy about the whole concept. Oh well lol
 

8slim

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Wave a magic wand and give Mac better players and coaches on offense.

What do people think Mac Jones’s ceiling is as a QB in terms of a comparable player?
A 21st century version of Steelers Neil O'Donnell? Meaning, a better comp % because of the way the game is played today, but a solid TD/Int ratio and a game manager who can win with said better weapons/coaching.

It's definitely not Cousins or a contemporary. They're all better playmakers than Mac will ever be, IMHO.