The Michael McCorkle "Mac" Jones Thread

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Mac's histrionics were definitely a thing this season. That said, many of us have worked for people whose incompetence directly affects not just our day to day negatively but also our career prospects.

Its easy to see why a 24 year old person in their first job out of school - and with a fairly limited career runway ahead of them - might start to freak out a bit. You arent progressing and your bosses are making choices that legitimately threaten your earnings and career. I'd be frustrated too.
 

Van Everyman

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One thing I will say, he absolutely must keep better control of his emotions and outbursts. I don't care how competitive he is, I don't can how bad the coaching was. Mac was losing his shit every single week and multiple times a game and it cannot continue. It's a bad look, it's not helpful for leading his teammates, and he needs to be better. It showed a distinct lack of maturity and it was embarrassing.
While I understand the optics of this were bad I think these kinds of things that mean a lot to fans and the media almost mean less than nothing in reality. All that’s really important is that Mac’s teammates still like and respect him – really other than Bill’s take that is pretty much all that matters.
 

8slim

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I don't care that the Herald has a bad rep or whatever, the 2 reporters who worked on the piece are well-respected, and similar things were reported by multiple sources throughout the season.

Job #1 of any coach is to put their players in a position to succeed. Clearly Patricia and Judge were abject failures at that. The season was a catastrophe on offense, and Patricia/Judge shoulder the vast majority of the blame. Clearly Bill knew he f-ed up since he moved on from those two within 48 hours of the season ending.

So glad we're moving on to a competent OC. Let's burn the 2022 offense and bury the ashes.
 

joe dokes

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While I understand the optics of this were bad I think these kinds of things that mean a lot to fans and the media almost mean less than nothing in reality. All that’s really important is that Mac’s teammates still like and respect him – really other than Bill’s take that is pretty much all that matters.
Also, in real time, I'm guessing that no more than a handful of players even know when he went off. (not every time; and certainly they find out by sunday night).
 

Ed Hillel

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He will most assuredly look much better with an organized and cohesive offense. This is a 10+ win team with the defense and Mac playing like he did at the beginning of his rookie season.
Well, what happened the second half of his rookie season with elite coaching? Who knows with him, I guess.
 

joe dokes

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Well, what happened the second half of his rookie season with elite coaching? Who knows with him, I guess.
I understand the "second half" narrative. But it seems to me that his good and shitty games were somewhat evenly dispersed throughout the season.
 

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Well they talk about thow the players with history in outside zone teams had a lot of problems with the offensive installation, heroically raised those to the coaches,and the coaches had no answers--and the list of players like that is, I think, Bourne Hoyer and Brown. I mean maybe Hoyer has decided to say fuck it, I'm a talentless third string QB making 2 million a year, I want to be deep throat and spill all (although could he be a guy who said "yeah Mac didn't like Judge"?perhaps--and maybe Brown is passionate about something other than custard--but Bourne is going to be right at the center.

I think Bourne's a source, I think Mac's agent is a source, I think Mac might be a source, I'm sure there are others. Judge or (less likely) Patricia might have been a source because there is a bit about how Jones was nervous about protection and played terribly early on, missing receivers and the like.

Someone somewhere has an interesting axe to grind because the "they ran outside zone but not a lot of complementary boot action" is some high shade from a knowledgeable source. I always imagine Chad O'Shea or Josh Boyer or maybe one of the vegas guys being up to trash the team's performance a little.



I also suspect some of the quotes about how bad the Pats performance was on the field are from either scouts or other organizations as they suggest early in the article "It was disheveled..they were always scrambling to get things done" seems like someone not on the team, so do "I just think [BB] didn't really understand how hard it was going to be" and "BY the end _they_ were just making 1,000 adjustments instead of building them in at the beginning")
Could also suggest someone from the defensive side of the ball.
 

JohnnyTheBone

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“Mac didn’t like him,” one source said. “At all.”

“(Judge) would speak extra loudly in meetings, trying to project like he was the guy,” another source said. “And I think that kind of rubbed people the wrong way.”
He was so loud
He sure could yell
Took a stand on every little thing
And soooo loud
 

Justthetippett

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I give the Pats credit for recognizing that the offense needed to evolve to include the Shannahan/McVay stuff; it’s the execution of that plan that was a total disaster. The Herald article is really an indictment of BB. Everybody could see that Patricia and Judge were ill suited for that role. Why couldn’t he?
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Mac's histrionics were definitely a thing this season. That said, many of us have worked for people whose incompetence directly affects not just our day to day negatively but also our career prospects.

Its easy to see why a 24 year old person in their first job out of school - and with a fairly limited career runway ahead of them - might start to freak out a bit. You arent progressing and your bosses are making choices that legitimately threaten your earnings and career. I'd be frustrated too.
Like I tell my 12 year old, your emotions are valid and you have a right to them. You do not have the right to negatively affect others with them.

Mac's tantrums were negatively affecting himself and others. He's a grown man and he can cut the shit. Brady got away with that because he's the GOAT and he demands excellence from himself and others. Mac has neither the track record nor the benefit of the doubt to get away with it.

Mac came from an extremely successful college program and really had faced very little real adversity before coming to the NFL. If this is the way he continually reacts to adversity, his career will be painful, ugly and short.
 

ehaz

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I'd bet Bourne and Brown were sources for sure. They seemed like two of the most frustrated players last season (and it adds color to a lot of Brown's poor play--not saying that's an excuse because he also looked like he completely gave up at times).
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Like I tell my 12 year old, your emotions are valid and you have a right to them. You do not have the right to negatively affect others with them.

Mac's tantrums were negatively affecting himself and others. He's a grown man and he can cut the shit. Brady got away with that because he's the GOAT and he demands excellence from himself and others. Mac has neither the track record nor the benefit of the doubt to get away with it.

Mac came from an extremely successful college program and really had faced very little real adversity before coming to the NFL. If this is the way he continually reacts to adversity, his career will be painful, ugly and short.
I agree with most of what you have posted here but again if you believe the Google results, the average career expectancy for NFL QBs is about four and a half years.

Furthermore, we all know how important it is for young players to prove themselves for their first three seasons. So you have Patricia and Judge badly DIYing the offense during a pivotal time in both Jones' Pats and NFL career. They literally messed with his money. Maybe that sort of thing wouldn't upset some but it would sure as hell enrage me.

If Jones keeps making "pissy faces" or acting out next year that's a different story though that will likely resolve itself with Mac taking his tantrums elsewhere.
 

Toe Nash

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This is an excellent point.

I also think the report is overly dramatic and sensational. I'm sure there were issues, no doubt, but of course there was frustration, they weren't getting the results they wanted. How much of this is just sour grapes? If all of this was true, I would have expected both to be fired immediately after the Buffalo game, yet here we are.
Eh, if any of this were true it matches what we know about Judge from his head coaching stint and I wouldn't have expected BB to hire him in the first place. But he did. I expect BB still is sympathetic to him to some extent and is going to move him to "senior football advisor" or something. Which might be OK I guess.
 

Bigdogx

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I give the Pats credit for recognizing that the offense needed to evolve to include the Shannahan/McVay stuff; it’s the execution of that plan that was a total disaster. The Herald article is really an indictment of BB. Everybody could see that Patricia and Judge were ill suited for that role. Why couldn’t he?
The fact that Judge has not been terminated worries me to be honest.

It's clear now that he was the main disruption in the locker room regarding this offense, and it is not like this is the first time his attitude rubbed players the wrong way, it is one of the main reasons he didn't last but a new york minute with the Giants, the players there couldnt stand the tulip!
 

FL4WL3SS

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The fact that Judge has not been terminated worries me to be honest.

It's clear now that he was the main disruption in the locker room regarding this offense, and it is not like this is the first time his attitude rubbed players the wrong way, it is one of the main reasons he didn't last but a new york minute with the Giants, the players there couldnt stand the tulip!
I actually don't think it's clear at all. Team has tough season that doesn't meet expectations, stories come out about people being unhappy. News at 11.
 

Shelterdog

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Eh, if any of this were true it matches what we know about Judge from his head coaching stint and I wouldn't have expected BB to hire him in the first place. But he did. I expect BB still is sympathetic to him to some extent and is going to move him to "senior football advisor" or something. Which might be OK I guess.
Judge was a pretty successful special teams coach here for 8 years. Clearly head coach for a shitty giants team and Qb coach to a mouthy but smart young 2nd year QB aren't the right jobs for him but that doesn't mean he doesn't have a ton of value in different roles.
 

Jimbodandy

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I'd bet Bourne and Brown were sources for sure. They seemed like two of the most frustrated players last season (and it adds color to a lot of Brown's poor play--not saying that's an excuse because he also looked like he completely gave up at times).
Brown would have been a source. Except when the reporter went up to ask him the questions, Trent stepped out of the way and the reporter sacked Mac for a 7-yard loss.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Here is a tangible example of how this played out

View: https://twitter.com/tkyles39/status/1618649685736161280
Phil Perry and others were on this story all year long. How the Pats were not using play action when it was clear that it was working when they did:

https://chowderandchampions.com/2022/09/19/vanilla-play-calling-holding-new-england-patriots-offense-back/

https://theathletic.com/3608500/2022/09/20/patriots-offense-mac-jones-play-action/

https://www.audacy.com/weei/sports/patriots/patriots-crazy-underuse-of-play-action-stunts-mac-jones


Of course, this all morphed into a talk radio false narrative of "The Pats must not be using play action because Mac isn't good at/doesn't like it" nonsense.

At the time of this tweet on 12/9, the Pats were the MOST efficient offense in football when running play action:

View: https://twitter.com/Schrock_And_Awe/status/1601230770303299584?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1601230770303299584%7Ctwgr%5E308ce8dd34cdcb3a99a8552d4ac032aca2eb53cb%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.audacy.com%2Fweei%2Fsports%2Fpatriots%2Fpatriots-crazy-underuse-of-play-action-stunts-mac-jones



The problem is they were 29th in the NFL at actually using play action.
 

BigJimEd

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I actually don't think it's clear at all. Team has tough season that doesn't meet expectations, stories come out about people being unhappy. News at 11.
We got Bingo! People are reading way too much into a few unnamed quotes and jumping to overly broad conclusions.
 

Auger34

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While I understand the optics of this were bad I think these kinds of things that mean a lot to fans and the media almost mean less than nothing in reality. All that’s really important is that Mac’s teammates still like and respect him – really other than Bill’s take that is pretty much all that matters.
Wasn’t there an article that mentioned a story about Mac’s time at Alabama, specifically before his year as a starter, that Saban kept telling him that his attitude wasn’t worthy of being a starting QB and that he was being too emotional and negative then finally put a camera on only him for all practices to show him just how bad his body language was?
 

Strike4

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I agree with most of what you have posted here but again if you believe the Google results, the average career expectancy for NFL QBs is about four and a half years.

Furthermore, we all know how important it is for young players to prove themselves for their first three seasons. So you have Patricia and Judge badly DIYing the offense during a pivotal time in both Jones' Pats and NFL career. They literally messed with his money. Maybe that sort of thing wouldn't upset some but it would sure as hell enrage me.

If Jones keeps making "pissy faces" or acting out next year that's a different story though that will likely resolve itself with Mac taking his tantrums elsewhere.
And think about the times when Tom Brady would blow up on the sidelines - minor things! Even if you ignore the more sensational things in the Herald article, the stuff that remains is egregious. And Mac was in even more of a difficult situation since it was apparent that they were going to go through the season without making any changes. What's he supposed to do, get sacked into oblivion and come up smiling? Not show frustration at the play calling? At the same time people are killing him for this behavior, he's also expected to be a leader.
 

Mystic Merlin

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Phil Perry and others were on this story all year long. How the Pats were not using play action when it was clear that it was working when they did:

https://chowderandchampions.com/2022/09/19/vanilla-play-calling-holding-new-england-patriots-offense-back/

https://theathletic.com/3608500/2022/09/20/patriots-offense-mac-jones-play-action/

https://www.audacy.com/weei/sports/patriots/patriots-crazy-underuse-of-play-action-stunts-mac-jones


Of course, this all morphed into a talk radio false narrative of "The Pats must not be using play action because Mac isn't good at/doesn't like it" nonsense.

At the time of this tweet on 12/9, the Pats were the MOST efficient offense in football when running play action:

View: https://twitter.com/Schrock_And_Awe/status/1601230770303299584?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1601230770303299584%7Ctwgr%5E308ce8dd34cdcb3a99a8552d4ac032aca2eb53cb%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.audacy.com%2Fweei%2Fsports%2Fpatriots%2Fpatriots-crazy-underuse-of-play-action-stunts-mac-jones



The problem is they were 29th in the NFL at actually using play action.
Holy shitballs, Bengals! Man are Burrow and those skill guys good because you shouldn’t be able to be that productive with that level of PA productivity.

Totally unsurprised to see the Bucs in the same area - watching many of their games this year the lack of PA was very noticeable, especially since Brady is a GREAT play action QB.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Phil Perry and others were on this story all year long. How the Pats were not using play action when it was clear that it was working when they did:

https://chowderandchampions.com/2022/09/19/vanilla-play-calling-holding-new-england-patriots-offense-back/

https://theathletic.com/3608500/2022/09/20/patriots-offense-mac-jones-play-action/

https://www.audacy.com/weei/sports/patriots/patriots-crazy-underuse-of-play-action-stunts-mac-jones


Of course, this all morphed into a talk radio false narrative of "The Pats must not be using play action because Mac isn't good at/doesn't like it" nonsense.

At the time of this tweet on 12/9, the Pats were the MOST efficient offense in football when running play action:

View: https://twitter.com/Schrock_And_Awe/status/1601230770303299584?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1601230770303299584%7Ctwgr%5E308ce8dd34cdcb3a99a8552d4ac032aca2eb53cb%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.audacy.com%2Fweei%2Fsports%2Fpatriots%2Fpatriots-crazy-underuse-of-play-action-stunts-mac-jones



The problem is they were 29th in the NFL at actually using play action.
Obviously the more you use it, the less effective it becomes. I'm not sure how steep of a decline it is based on usage, but I wouldn't be shocked if they didn't end up in the top 10 if they had used it even an average amount.
 

FL4WL3SS

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Obviously the more you use it, the less effective it becomes. I'm not sure how steep of a decline it is based on usage, but I wouldn't be shocked if they didn't end up in the top 10 if they had used it even an average amount.
This was my thought, I wonder if it was so effective because they didn't use it much. The run game was not great in a lot of games at the end of the season, I question how effective PA would have actually been.
 

ShaneTrot

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Obviously the more you use it, the less effective it becomes. I'm not sure how steep of a decline it is based on usage, but I wouldn't be shocked if they didn't end up in the top 10 if they had used it even an average amount.
I remember reading somewhere that virtually all LBs step forward on the play fake. It's hard to train them not to as it's how defensive football has been taught. What makes play action a superpower is running the actual running play now and again.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Obviously the more you use it, the less effective it becomes. I'm not sure how steep of a decline it is based on usage, but I wouldn't be shocked if they didn't end up in the top 10 if they had used it even an average amount.
Yep, there are definitely diminishing returns if you use it too much, like anything else. Opposing defenses are going to be less surprised when you do it. I mean, with the Dolphins, you pretty much have to assume they aren't handing it off based on how often they go there.

But I think that middle ground where Buffalo and KC and Dallas sit is where a team like the Pats should be, because with the Pats, you have to respect their running game. With those teams, their offenses are so good, their running games don't really matter, you just have to show the defense different things.

I've also been trying to find stats on play action under center vs. out of shotgun. To me, an RPO out of the shotgun is a very different type of play action than one that happens from under center. The Pats ran most of their offense from the shotgun, and very little RPO, whereas teams like Chicago/Philly, etc. seem to run RPO's a ton...
 
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Deathofthebambino

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This was my thought, I wonder if it was so effective because they didn't use it much. The run game was not great in a lot of games at the end of the season, I question how effective PA would have actually been.
Part of the reason they didn't run it as much is because they didn't run many plays, period.

The Pats were 28th in the NFL at offensive plays at 59.2. The Bucs led the NFL at 68.2. It's basically an entire long series per game difference.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/nfl-team-with-the-most-offensive-plays-per-game-this-season
 

joe dokes

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I remember reading somewhere that virtually all LBs step forward on the play fake. It's hard to train them not to as it's how defensive football has been taught. What makes play action a superpower is running the actual running play now and again.
Its not even about stepping forward. Just freezing them for the length of time it takes a receiver to take 1 step is probably enough to make the play successful.
 

joe dokes

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We got Bingo! People are reading way too much into a few unnamed quotes and jumping to overly broad conclusions.
I dont think the conclusions are terribly broad. Judge and Patricia were not very good at their jobs. BB seemed to acknowledge that at one point ("too late to change") and certainly acknowledged it after the season by relieving them of those jobs. Herald story really only adds, "people around the team knew it too."
 

ragnarok725

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The article, assuming the general story is correct, confirms what most here suspected - that the coaching failures were likely a significant part of Jones struggles this past year.

Nobody is required to change their opinion of Mac going forward but it feels like he was essentially set up to fail from the jump. He may well not be someone they can win with but my inclination is to largely dismiss this year's performance and see what he does under BOB and hopefully with at least some weapons. I don't have high hopes for him but it doesn't feel overly optimistic to expect some of the growth we were hoping for this past season.

In short, I would almost look at next year as his second season in the NFL, at least developmentally.
This seems to be the general consensus around the board and in the Patriots fanbase.

I'll go the other way. I do not think Mac is the answer at QB. He's a bottom 10 QB right now. Even accounting for the coaching disaster, he did nothing particularly well this year. The flashes he showed in his rookie year didn't even last that whole season - he was basically in jail by the end of the year in those games against Buffalo. If he had any one skill that was elite, I'd have a different opinion of him. But he doesn't seem to be a great decision maker. His accuracy is average. His deep ball is weak. He isn't a threat with his legs. Some of these things may incrementally improve, but his upside is significantly limited by his physical profile. He'll never be elite, and it's very difficult to win with any consistency in the NFL without a top 5-10 QB.

I'm not particularly interested in dreaming on a Kirk Cousins upside.

I don't think they'll do it, but if I were the Patriots, I'd be looking to draft another QB this season. I'd even do it in the first round if there's someone they like. Certainly in the 2nd or 3rd. Put them in a competition with Mac. If Mac performs, then great. If he continues to be mediocre then you have another guy already in house, developing, to pick up garbage time/late season experience and be the new guy to explore in 2024. But I think it's time to buy another lottery ticket.
 

Rudy's Curve

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Holy shitballs, Bengals! Man are Burrow and those skill guys good because you shouldn’t be able to be that productive with that level of PA productivity.

Totally unsurprised to see the Bucs in the same area - watching many of their games this year the lack of PA was very noticeable, especially since Brady is a GREAT play action QB.
They do run almost exclusively shotgun where PA rates are obviously a lot lower. Their under center run game was nonexistent the first few weeks so they pretty much just ditched it entirely in favor of RPOs.
 

lexrageorge

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I dont think the conclusions are terribly broad. Judge and Patricia were not very good at their jobs. BB seemed to acknowledge that at one point ("too late to change") and certainly acknowledged it after the season by relieving them of those jobs. Herald story really only adds, "people around the team knew it too."
Agree.

The Herald article notes the struggles the team had adopting some of the new concepts they wanted to into their offense, and how the result was a dearth of play action plays and other problems. Well, we have objective evidence in the form of screen captures and videos posted on social media that illustrated those problems. We've seen pictures of receivers running into each other. We've had reports since training camp from multiple media members of those same problems persisting. Even Bill acknowledged in mid-season that changes needed to made.

We've also seen Mac get frustrated when plays don't get to him on time. But what is the primary job of the coaching staff during a game? Get the fucking play call onto the field. Period. And if Mac doesn't know what to run when there's no play call ready, again that is on the coaches. Objective evidence of these failures by the coaches exists.

What we do not really know is the truth or magnitude of these "inside baseball" anecdotes. There's bound to be frustrating practices after losses and people venting when it's nearing 100 degrees on the field. Coaches sometimes lose it and yell and may even irritate other coaches. Missing the playoffs is going to be a huge source of frustration and people are going to recall the bad when that happens. So it's fine to be skeptical of these stories or at the very least treat them with caution. But if Belichick thought Judge and Patricia were doing a great job and were the best choices for 2023, he would have said that. Instead he hired O'Brien, so there is probably at least some smoke with that fire in the Herald article.
 

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This seems to be the general consensus around the board and in the Patriots fanbase.
..... He'll never be elite, and it's very difficult to win with any consistency in the NFL without a top 5-10 QB.

I'm not particularly interested in dreaming on a Kirk Cousins upside.

I don't think they'll do it, but if I were the Patriots, I'd be looking to draft another QB this season. I'd even do it in the first round if there's someone they like. Certainly in the 2nd or 3rd. Put them in a competition with Mac. If Mac performs, then great. If he continues to be mediocre then you have another guy already in house, developing, to pick up garbage time/late season experience and be the new guy to explore in 2024. But I think it's time to buy another lottery ticket.
It's a pretty common refrain on this board that they should move on from Jones is he's not a top 5-10 QB any maybe the Pats are the outlier on this but I've got to say teams that have a steady starter in that 10-20 range--your Cousins, your fitzpatricks, your Daltons and Flaccos, Alex Smiths and Matt Cassells-tend to hold onto those players. Yeah Mahomes makes it a lot easier to be a consistent winning team, but there's not surer way to lose than to play a a Jacoby Brissett or Zach Wilson.
 

Bernie Carbohydrate

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I'd bet Bourne and Brown were sources for sure. They seemed like two of the most frustrated players last season (and it adds color to a lot of Brown's poor play--not saying that's an excuse because he also looked like he completely gave up at times).
Well, Brown has a lot of experience with looking over his shoulder and seeing bad things happening behind him.
 

joe dokes

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This seems to be the general consensus around the board and in the Patriots fanbase.

I'll go the other way. I do not think Mac is the answer at QB. He's a bottom 10 QB right now. Even accounting for the coaching disaster, he did nothing particularly well this year. The flashes he showed in his rookie year didn't even last that whole season - he was basically in jail by the end of the year in those games against Buffalo. If he had any one skill that was elite, I'd have a different opinion of him. But he doesn't seem to be a great decision maker. His accuracy is average. His deep ball is weak. He isn't a threat with his legs. Some of these things may incrementally improve, but his upside is significantly limited by his physical profile. He'll never be elite, and it's very difficult to win with any consistency in the NFL without a top 5-10 QB.

.
I think you;re likely right that his upside is limited by his physical profile. As to how high is up, YMMV, I dont have a fucking clue, really. But the "decision making" conclusion seems premature, in the context of the Herald story/coaching discussion. It's very difficult to accurately assess decision-making when the menu of decision-related options is, apparently, messed up from the get-go. Someone might be good at their job, but if they suddenly had to do the same job with similar looking equipment using a manual designed for left-handed French-speakers (which they are not), they're gonna look like shit. That's how Jones looked a lot in 2022. "Hmm, this *is* football, but beyond that it does not look familiar." Hell, I'll even consider that some part of that is on Jones, and (for the sake of argument), that Patricia actually does have a future as an OC but just doesn't speak Jones's language (and vice versa). But even if those last 2 things are true, it's pretty hard to draw conclusions based on this year's regression in the decision-making dept.
 

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45,307
Melrose, MA
One thing Lazar noted is that they chenged the way the do play action.

https://www.patriots.com/news/season-review-evaluating-mac-jones-second-season-and-how-the-patriots-move-for

Furthermore, the Patriots changed the way they scheme up play-action passes. For two decades, the Pats designed plays to influence the second level of the defense by mimicking their gap and lead schemes to pull linebackers into the line of scrimmage.
View: https://twitter.com/ezlazar/status/1591176545452044288?s=20&t=6Td6WfRvbvaZYf1u14gc6A


This season, the Pats are attacking defensive structures with vertical play-action concepts. They're using run personnel and formations to get defenses to pack the box in single-high safety coverages. Then, they're stressing those post-safety structures with vertical route combinations.
 

Over Guapo Grande

panty merchant
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Nov 29, 2005
4,673
Worcester
One thing I will say, he absolutely must keep better control of his emotions and outbursts. I don't care how competitive he is, I don't can how bad the coaching was. Mac was losing his shit every single week and multiple times a game and it cannot continue. It's a bad look, it's not helpful for leading his teammates, and he needs to be better. It showed a distinct lack of maturity and it was embarrassing.
Your feelings were hurt because Mac was upset that plays came in with 8 seconds left on the play clock?
 

DavidTai

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Dec 18, 2003
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What we do not really know is the truth or magnitude of these "inside baseball" anecdotes. There's bound to be frustrating practices after losses and people venting when it's nearing 100 degrees on the field. Coaches sometimes lose it and yell and may even irritate other coaches. Missing the playoffs is going to be a huge source of frustration and people are going to recall the bad when that happens. So it's fine to be skeptical of these stories or at the very least treat them with caution. But if Belichick thought Judge and Patricia were doing a great job and were the best choices for 2023, he would have said that. Instead he hired O'Brien, so there is probably at least some smoke with that fire in the Herald article.
I'm not terribly skeptical of those stories, I absolutely believe there were a lot of problems on the coaching sideline.

What I remember is a twitter that Bruce Allen made that detailed the offensive coaching scenario in detail:

View: https://twitter.com/bruceallen/status/1607436892974485504?s=46&t=zwGW0quVWEebczOupt13VQ


Most notably, Allen notes that when McDaniels left, he took the OL coach, the QB coach, and the WR coaches with him.

So the Patriots not only had to fill OC, they had to fill OL, QB, and WR coaches as well.

So they have to use Judge and Patricia on the offense, they had to train new replacements for OL, WR, and QB coaches at the same time.

Given that the greatest state of chaos on this team was OL, WR, and QB... yeah, I'd absolutely believe there was a major problem, but no, I don't think it's all on Patricia and Judge - I'd give most of the blame to McDaniels for taking all that offensive coaching with him. (And Belichick too, probably, for letting McDaniels take -that- many coaches, much good it did McDaniels in Las Vegas.)

*ednote: the twitter replies notes they also needed to replace the RB coach as well. That's a lot of positional coaching to replace all in one offseason, and they clearly didn't do it successfully.
 

Jinhocho

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Jul 31, 2001
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I'm not terribly skeptical of those stories, I absolutely believe there were a lot of problems on the coaching sideline.

What I remember is a twitter that Bruce Allen made that detailed the offensive coaching scenario in detail:

View: https://twitter.com/bruceallen/status/1607436892974485504?s=46&t=zwGW0quVWEebczOupt13VQ


Most notably, Allen notes that when McDaniels left, he took the OL coach, the QB coach, and the WR coaches with him.

So the Patriots not only had to fill OC, they had to fill OL, QB, and WR coaches as well.

So they have to use Judge and Patricia on the offense, they had to train new replacements for OL, WR, and QB coaches at the same time.

Given that the greatest state of chaos on this team was OL, WR, and QB... yeah, I'd absolutely believe there was a major problem, but no, I don't think it's all on Patricia and Judge - I'd give most of the blame to McDaniels for taking all that offensive coaching with him. (And Belichick too, probably, for letting McDaniels take -that- many coaches, much good it did McDaniels in Las Vegas.)

*ednote: the twitter replies notes they also needed to replace the RB coach as well. That's a lot of positional coaching to replace all in one offseason, and they clearly didn't do it successfully.
We knew this all year. It also wasnt much time to replace that many people. I think BB considered BoB but didnt want to pilfer from Saban or too much respect etc etc as it was reported at the time.
 

Shelterdog

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Feb 19, 2002
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May 19, 2022



Anyone who watched even one of his press conferences in NY could see this coming. He doesn't strike me as a great communicator.
Seems to have been a pretty effective communicator when he was a special team coach for multiple Super Bowl winning teams with strong special teams

edit: he’s a bad qb coach and was a bad giants head coach but assuming a guy is a bad coach because he gives a shitty press conference isnot sensible.
 
Last edited:

ehaz

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Sep 30, 2007
4,993
I'm not terribly skeptical of those stories, I absolutely believe there were a lot of problems on the coaching sideline.

What I remember is a twitter that Bruce Allen made that detailed the offensive coaching scenario in detail:

View: https://twitter.com/bruceallen/status/1607436892974485504?s=46&t=zwGW0quVWEebczOupt13VQ


Most notably, Allen notes that when McDaniels left, he took the OL coach, the QB coach, and the WR coaches with him.

So the Patriots not only had to fill OC, they had to fill OL, QB, and WR coaches as well.

So they have to use Judge and Patricia on the offense, they had to train new replacements for OL, WR, and QB coaches at the same time.

Given that the greatest state of chaos on this team was OL, WR, and QB... yeah, I'd absolutely believe there was a major problem, but no, I don't think it's all on Patricia and Judge - I'd give most of the blame to McDaniels for taking all that offensive coaching with him. (And Belichick too, probably, for letting McDaniels take -that- many coaches, much good it did McDaniels in Las Vegas.)

*ednote: the twitter replies notes they also needed to replace the RB coach as well. That's a lot of positional coaching to replace all in one offseason, and they clearly didn't do it successfully.
I get letting your coaches leave for promotions but wouldn’t they all have received promotions in New England due to McDaniels’ departure? I mean, even OC in NE is probably a bigger promotion than OC in Vegas because McDaniels would still be the play caller.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Nov 17, 2010
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I'm a play-action guy, especially in the right situations. 2nd and short? *muah*

But I think people have started to overestimate its impact over the last few years. Again, I understand the benefits and I'm a PA stan, but there are ways around letting it impact your defense.

Playing zone can negate some of the effect, doubly so if linemen play 2-gap and linebackers know to be patient. Linebackers can also key off of lineman instead of skill players. If a lineman steps up field, it's a run (or is flagged as illegal man downfield). If his first step is back, it's a pass.

Again, I understand it's ability to freeze players, but if it doesn't work, oftentimes it's a wasted or negative play. I'd like to see the Pats use it more often, but I'm not sure "more playaction!" Cracks the top 25 reasons this offense was shit.