This decision will likely come before we learn about the next coach. Critical they get this right given the work that needs to be done this off-season. The rumor mill should be in full force shortly.
KC has a good track record on defensive side but they might be worse at evaluating talent on offense than Bill's recent track record. Outside of Mahomes they have wasted countless picks recently. Sky Moore, trading for Toney, CEH in the first, Mecole Hardman.They need to reach out to Adam Peters in San Francisco and the KC and Philadelphia assistants. They need to be open to external guys.
I don't want another Coach/GM. Get an experienced GM in here that has a track record of evaluating talent.Insane but - Vrabel.
Wouldn't you have been infuriated by your GM making one of the dumber trades in recent history? He was directly replaced by a guy who has 665 career yards.Not saying I would love it, just have a sneaky feeling it’s happening. Wasn’t Vrabel infuriated AJ Brown was traded?
Which tells you very little other than he's a coach. Coaches always hate when star players get traded or let go for cap reasons. It's what made Bill the best of the GM/HC ever was he was willing to move on from top talent if it was too pricy.Not saying I would love it, just have a sneaky feeling it’s happening. Wasn’t Vrabel infuriated AJ Brown was traded?
There are far too many things to fix for one person to be in charge of both HC and GM. You are going to need one person to oversee the rebuild of the offense, special teams, the lower-tier staffing of coaching and game-day prep AND one person to oversee the rebuild of the roster and the scouting department. The only thing that is not in need of drastic changes is the defense.I don't want another Coach/GM. Get an experienced GM in here that has a track record of evaluating talent.
Brown started his career in NE as an assistant then an area scout.Jon Robinson (former TEN GM)
Thomas Dimitroff (former ATL GM)
Dave Ziegler (former LV GM)
Eliot Wolf (NE Dir of Scouting)
Matt Groh (NE Dir of Player Personnel)
Adam Peters (SF AGM)
Trey Brown (CIN Sr Personnel Executive) - no former ties to NE but apparently close with Mayo
Hypothetically maybe, but why would he leave? He's won all the power struggles and has a great foundation in place, just nailed his franchise QB pick, etc.Can they hire Caserio away from Houston by adding something to the GM title?
I don't have any idea what he wants or why, but some possible reasons could be:Hypothetically maybe, but why would he leave? He's won all the power struggles and has a great foundation in place, just nailed his franchise QB pick, etc.
We’d want Caserio because he’s good at this. Why he would want to come back… well… who knows if he would, but just a couple posts above yours I gave several reasons why he might.Why would we want Caserio back and why would he want to leave Houston?
We... maybe not, but most of the people on this board aren't 82 year olds obsessed with burnishing their legacy and getting into the hall of fame before they die.Why would we want Caserio back and why would he want to leave Houston?
seems like a lot of the bad drafts BB had were under Caserio’s regime - to the extent many Pats fans were happy when he was gone. And he’s the same guy who whiffed terribly on the last 3rd overall pick he had (Stingley)We’d want Caserio because he’s good at this. Why he would want to come back… well… who knows if he would, but just a couple posts above yours I gave several reasons why he might.
With the defense, wouldn’t the number of changes be dependent upon who the coach is? Decisions have to be made on a number of key players (Uche, Jennings who had an expanded role this year, Dugger, etc) and there are a bunch of guys who succeeded in Belichick’s scheme (Tavai being the best example but I’d throw Peppers and Wise in there too) who might not work in a different scheme.There are far too many things to fix for one person to be in charge of both HC and GM. You are going to need one person to oversee the rebuild of the offense, special teams, the lower-tier staffing of coaching and game-day prep AND one person to oversee the rebuild of the roster and the scouting department. The only thing that is not in need of drastic changes is the defense.
I'd like to see either Adam Peters or Trey Brown (especially if they're going with Mayo) on the list and have fewer BB-era retreads.
Caserio didn't have a 1st or 2nd rd pick in his first draft in 2021 due to the Tunsil trade that happened while he was still in NE. He also inherited a poor cap situation and legal mess with his franchise QB. He got a kings ransom for Watson and HOU is now in great cap shape with a lot of core pieces in place. He still drafted Nico Collins in the 3rd in 2021 who looks like a 1st rd talent and obviously crushed the 23 draft. Agree Stingley was a bad miss but when you look at the situation he inherited to where they are today it is nothing short of miraculous how quickly they turned things around.seems like a lot of the bad drafts BB had were under Caserio’s regime - to the extent many Pats fans were happy when he was gone. And he’s the same guy who whiffed terribly on the last 3rd overall pick he had (Stingley)
He obviously nailed the 2023 draft, and Pitre, Collins and a couple other players have worked out from previous drafts but is the thought that he’s a good drafter when freed from the burden of BB’s input?
Houston’s roster last year was horrendous. And a lot of that was due to Caserio’s personnel decisions. Credit him for the 2023 draft and getting a stud QB but the body of work prior to that in Houston is underwhelming.
Yes, but I think the smart move would be to keep the defense as close to what it is as possible. The current defense works and works well. The new regime should be looking to reduce the number of gaps in the talent to scheme ratio, not increase them.With the defense, wouldn’t the number of changes be dependent upon who the coach is? Decisions have to be made on a number of key players (Uche, Jennings who had an expanded role this year, Dugger, etc) and there are a bunch of guys who succeeded in Belichick’s scheme (Tavai being the best example but I’d throw Peppers and Wise in there too) who might not work in a different scheme.
Mayo being the coach makes those decisions easier but a different coach/GM combo might need to overhaul that unit.
I suppose my point was that the current defense works well but a lot of that IMO comes down to BB and his ability to find those players and get the most out of them, along with his ability to come up with terrific gameplansYes, but I think the smart move would be to keep the defense as close to what it is as possible. The current defense works and works well. The new regime should be looking to reduce the number of gaps in the talent to scheme ratio, not increase them.
Unless they want to completely demolish the whole thing and rebuild the offense, defense, and special teams at once. Keep as many of the young, cost-controlled guys on D as possible, like Barimore, Gonzales, White, etc. and start over. If they're going to do that do you entertain seeing what you can get for Judon? I hate to see him go, but if the plan is to not be Conference Championship /Super Bowl competitive for 3-5 years, why not see what sort of building block you can get for him?
Unfortunately, he wouldn’t be inheriting a player he can trade for a ransom, nor would he be inheriting a high end LT. He had 2 top 15 picks and 4 total top 50 picks in 2022 and Pitre is the only guy who looks like a building block piece. Green was ok in 2022 and hurt this year, but taking him over Tyler Smith was questionable. Metchie had the illness so maybe Caserio gets a pass on that (“maybe” in the sense that Metchie was reportedly healthy this year and didn’t do anything of note, obviously if the illness is still impacting him, I’d give Caserio a full pass). Neither Stingley or Green look to be worth top 15 picks and Stingley over Sauce Gardner was questionable at the time and looks horrendous in retrospect. If BB did that, he’d be raked over the coals.Caserio didn't have a 1st or 2nd rd pick in his first draft in 2021 due to the Tunsil trade that happened while he was still in NE. He also inherited a poor cap situation and legal mess with his franchise QB. He got a kings ransom for Watson and HOU is now in great cap shape with a lot of core pieces in place. He still drafted Nico Collins in the 3rd in 2021 who looks like a 1st rd talent and obviously crushed the 23 draft. Agree Stingley was a bad miss but when you look at the situation he inherited to where they are today it is nothing short of miraculous how quickly they turned things around.
Peters is a former Patriots guy (and followed McDaniels to Denver before going to SF), FWIW. Philly I believe also runs the New England scouting system (brought over by Joe Douglas from Baltimore) so either of those would provide some continuity along with outside perspective.They need to reach out to Adam Peters in San Francisco and the KC and Philadelphia assistants. They need to be open to external guys.
I think this is a distinct advantage of the HC-in-charge model (which is not just a Belichick thing; even in some orgs that have a "GM," the HC has final say over personnel). It's easier to stay aligned.I suppose my point was that the current defense works well but a lot of that IMO comes down to BB and his ability to find those players and get the most out of them, along with his ability to come up with terrific gameplans
New GM (whoever it is) and Mayo (or whoever) probably won’t be able to get this defense playing to the level we saw this year because a big part of their current state depends on both BB the coach and BB the GM.
it’s the one place where having the HC and GM being the same guy helps. He knew exactly the right types of guys he could bring in to make his defense play better than the sum its parts.
I mean, the last one worked out perfect. Genuinely curious, why?What Marbleheader said. No more dual monarchs please.
I like the checks and balances of a GM and coach working in tandem. I think the last one was a rare case of two GOATs and Brady and BB's skillz kind of offset any personnel blunders/margins for error.I mean, the last one worked out perfect. Genuinely curious, why?
But you could also run into a Vrable situation (or Pete Carroll) where there is misalignment and you end up getting rid of a great coach because the GM sucks. Obviously it worked out losing Pete, but the point stands.I like the checks and balances of a GM and coach working in tandem. I think the last one was a rare case of two GOATS and Brady and BB's skillz kind of offset any personnel blunders/margins for error.
You can run Reche Cauldwell out there as your main threat a the game if TB12 is dropping it in his breadbasket. You can give Bill eleven JAGs on D and he will scheme them up just enough to give you a punchers chance.
I could be 100% wrong, I dunno.
We need to bring coach's challenges over to the personnel side. The GM runs things, but the coach gets a 4 or 5 veto cards to play each season?But you could also run into a Vrable situation (or Pete Carroll) where there is misalignment and you end up getting rid of a great coach because the GM sucks. Obviously it worked out losing Pete, but the point stands.
I think in football, more than any sport, the coach needs heavy say in personnel.
If the Director of Football Operations is going to be a separate position from the GM then I can see Jonathan Kraft assuming that role where he would handle all things financial such as contract negotiations, managing the cap etc and then have a "grocery shopper" GM handle personnel, draft and free agents with input from the HC. I think that with this move away from the BB "all in one" coach / GM / Director of football ops that JK is going to stakeout some territory with this new realignment.Peters is a former Patriots guy (and followed McDaniels to Denver before going to SF), FWIW. Philly I believe also runs the New England scouting system (brought over by Joe Douglas from Baltimore) so either of those would provide some continuity along with outside perspective.
I think this is a distinct advantage of the HC-in-charge model (which is not just a Belichick thing; even in some orgs that have a "GM," the HC has final say over personnel). It's easier to stay aligned.
You can do it the other way, too, with the GM clearly in charge. I think the worst structure is when you get murkiness as to who is running the show and the owner is constantly adjudicating football decisions even though he's not a football guy. But I think the biggest question this offseason is "who takes over football operations?"
Could Kraft be planning for Mayo to assume one of the front office roles with a different head coach (like Vrabel) being hired?Mayo being the coach makes those decisions easier but a different coach/GM combo might need to overhaul that unit.
he's never shown any interest in that, where he has been quite clear he wants to be a head coach.Could Kraft be planning for Mayo to assume one of the front office roles with a different head coach (like Vrabel) being hired?
meh.Curran saying it’s going to be Mayo, Wolf and Groh. Good grief. Let’s hope he’s misinformed
Why can’t we get guys like that?Groh is the worst part of that conversation. Fingers crossed he's wrong.
Unless Kraft had inside knowledge that BB was overruling Wolf and Groh regularly, it’s really hard to see how those two guys would represent an improvementCurran saying it’s going to be Mayo, Wolf and Groh. Good grief. Let’s hope he’s misinformed
Either way, if we are just elevating internal people, anonymously-sourced hit pieces on BB are likely to follow.Unless Kraft had inside knowledge that BB was overruling Wolf and Groh regularly, it’s really hard to see how those two guys would represent an improvement
I don't know that I think it's great, I'd prefer some of the names I listed up thread.Why can’t we get guys like that?
Seriously, every single one of the tragic decisions (primarily looking at the offense here) had better have been made directly under BBs boot-heel or what are we doing?
edit - @Cellar-Door seems to be better informed here, big surprise, but I still need more convincing.