The Fat Panda Thread
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And if he refuses? They bench their $95M investment? They signed a switch hitter, they're going to let him switch hit until he decides to stop.adam42381 said:
But isn't this exactly what good managers (not just of baseball teams but in corporate America in general) do ---- make a suggestion like --- "since we really want to keep you in the lineup, and to protect your knee until it feels 100%, why don't you hit lefty for the time being." Then pray he hits .300 batting lefty against lefties and decides himself that maybe the time has come to make the change permanent.
Cherrington's answer makes sense. The player in the box is the one who has 0.1 seconds to decide whether a given pitch is a fastball that will drill him in the head or a breaking ball that will bend into the strike zone. Until that changes, what box to stand in needs to be up to the player.
Not sure if this is the place to put this but here's a fun interview between Pablo Sandoval and his brother for The Player's Tribune:
http://www.theplayerstribune.com/pablo-sandoval-venezuela-red-sox/
http://www.theplayerstribune.com/pablo-sandoval-venezuela-red-sox/
So, after tonight he has a wRC+ of 84 and the defense continues to underwhelm. Are we getting into Carl Crawford territory yet, or just Edgar Renteria?
Don't worry, everyone, Pablo's a professional and he knows what he has to do. Just leave him alone! LEAVE PABLO ALONEEEE!!!
In all seriousness, this is what you get with Pablo Sandoval. He will look lost and awful and you'll wonder if he'll ever get a hit again, but then it'll click in and you wonder if he'll ever make an out again. This is the world of Pandoval.
Um, unless it's one of his bad seasons, which have in the past tended to be when he was significantly overweight. Still, he's streaky.
In all seriousness, this is what you get with Pablo Sandoval. He will look lost and awful and you'll wonder if he'll ever get a hit again, but then it'll click in and you wonder if he'll ever make an out again. This is the world of Pandoval.
Um, unless it's one of his bad seasons, which have in the past tended to be when he was significantly overweight. Still, he's streaky.
soxhop411 said:
He's also a notoriously streaky hitter. He spent a large part of the first half of last season struggling at the plate as well.
Edit: what gaelgirl said.
gaelgirl said:
QFT. I stand by my position that this was a match made in hell for precisely the concerns voiced in this thread and in the press. That said, if they just let him play, he will likely bounce back at some point in the not too distant future. In the interim, it isn't going to be pretty because pretty and Pablo Sandoval have never and never will meet.
gaelgirl said:
In retrospect, Pandoval and Napoli probably aren't the best combo to anchor a lineup. If extreme feast and famine hitters have their hot and cold spells in sync, you're looking at a .500 team that has a lot of blowout games (one way or the other).
.500, five hundred, such heady thoughts right now. Would I settle for .500 at the end of this season?Rovin Romine said:
Back to the thread topic, either Sandoval is still hurt or he's exceeded the magic weight threshold. His fielding goes to shit first when he's just too heavy. Of course, his hitting is bad right now too. Unfortunate chain of events: Middlebrooks not cutting it, Cecchini et al 3B candidates not ready, sign Sandoval to a bad contract.
Pablo Sandoval has not had an extra base hit since May 16th, and in that time he is 8 for 54 (.148).
In that same time period, Will Middlebrooks is 21 for 71 (.296) with 4 HR and 3 doubles.
In that same time period, Will Middlebrooks is 21 for 71 (.296) with 4 HR and 3 doubles.
And Josh Donaldson is 26 for 84 (.310) with 8 HR and 6 doubles.
(Not trying to start anything! Just putting here for reference.)
(Not trying to start anything! Just putting here for reference.)
The Panda decision was not only about this year but the future of 3B free agents. Brock Holt has gotten exposed when he plays full-time. The options last year seemed to be WMB, Holt, Aramis, Panda (I'm sure I'm forgetting others but there was very little to choose from). In 2016, the free agency at 3B (and 1B) for that matter, gets even bleaker:
Third Basemen
Joaquin Arias (31)
Mike Aviles (35)
Gordon Beckham (29)
Willie Bloomquist (38)
Kevin Frandsen (34)
David Freese (33)
Jonathan Herrera (31)
Maicer Izturis (35) – $3MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Don Kelly (36)
Jeff Keppinger (36)
Casey McGehee (32)
Aramis Ramirez (38)
Sean Rodriguez (31)
Juan Uribe (37)
Not one of those guys is an option. 2017 is bad too (Beltre should be just about done by then):
Third Basemen
Adrian Beltre (38)
Daniel Descalso (30)
Martin Prado (33)
Justin Turner (32)
Luis Valbuena (31)
Holt as a UTIF makes the Sox a better team. I still think the Panda contract will turn out OK once he goes on a hitting streak, which he is apt to do. No SF fan was glad to see him go.
Third Basemen
Joaquin Arias (31)
Mike Aviles (35)
Gordon Beckham (29)
Willie Bloomquist (38)
Kevin Frandsen (34)
David Freese (33)
Jonathan Herrera (31)
Maicer Izturis (35) – $3MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Don Kelly (36)
Jeff Keppinger (36)
Casey McGehee (32)
Aramis Ramirez (38)
Sean Rodriguez (31)
Juan Uribe (37)
Not one of those guys is an option. 2017 is bad too (Beltre should be just about done by then):
Third Basemen
Adrian Beltre (38)
Daniel Descalso (30)
Martin Prado (33)
Justin Turner (32)
Luis Valbuena (31)
Holt as a UTIF makes the Sox a better team. I still think the Panda contract will turn out OK once he goes on a hitting streak, which he is apt to do. No SF fan was glad to see him go.
soxhop411 said:
Jed Lowrie was available. And there are these things called "trades," which our front office may have heard of, though it seems like many on SOSH haven't.
Rudy Pemberton said:
Exactly, if we're assuming that everything Lowrie did in Houston would translate to Boston, his WAR is 1.1; Sandoval's is -0.3. So Lowrie out until the All Star break is better than Sandoval on the field. And you get 3 years of Lowrie for the cost of 1-1/3 years of Sandoval, so even if Lowrie misses half of every year and Sandoval plays every game, you're coming out ahead in the all important WAR/$.
Which of those other options were preferable? Headley has been just as bad, Cecchini isn't hitting in Pawtucket, Bogaerts just opens up a hole at SS, and do you really want Hanley there?Rudy Pemberton said:
I'm nervous about Pablo too, but he was good in April. He's had a bad 6 weeks.
I am 100% down on Pablo thus far, but I tend to agree that at the end of last season Pablo was the best option available, not only for 2015 but for future years. If Jed Lowrie is the "one that got away", then that says all you need to know about the job candidates. The field was bleak and despite his warts, Pablo had the best track record. The problem is that his play thus far has managed to make even the Pablo pessimists looks like optimists.
No, the problem is they felt like they had to do something when they didn't. Things change fast; did they think that 4 days later the best 3B in the league would be traded (and yes, I know they may never have had a shot at Donaldson for whatever reasons)? Did Trevor Plouffe look like a 3+ WAR player before last year? How about all the players Duquette pulls off the scrap heap each year?
We were all sick of watching Middlebrooks hit, but the reasonable best case for Sandoval was that he would field at an average level and hopefully get hot every so often at the plate, and given his body there was considerable downside. Spending all that money on him means you decided that he was the solution and basically eliminate any other solutions for the next ~3 years.
They had WMB and Holt for cheap with no long-term commitment. Given the state of 3B in the majors that is actually not too bad. And you wouldn't be locked into anyone if a potential upgrade came along. If they were one piece away I get it, but this was a team with lots of questions given how many new and young players they were fielding. I would want to leave my options more open.
We were all sick of watching Middlebrooks hit, but the reasonable best case for Sandoval was that he would field at an average level and hopefully get hot every so often at the plate, and given his body there was considerable downside. Spending all that money on him means you decided that he was the solution and basically eliminate any other solutions for the next ~3 years.
They had WMB and Holt for cheap with no long-term commitment. Given the state of 3B in the majors that is actually not too bad. And you wouldn't be locked into anyone if a potential upgrade came along. If they were one piece away I get it, but this was a team with lots of questions given how many new and young players they were fielding. I would want to leave my options more open.
Are you seriously saying that WMB was an option? The guy was/is terrible and it was VERY CLEAR by the end of last year. WMB is down to 228/261/394 for the Pads and is probably saying he's about to find his rythym. I was surprised that Ben could even get a 34-year-old backup catcher for him.
If the Sox would have went in to last season with WMB and Holt as the 3B options, I would have lost my mind. Holt was exposed last year once he played full time and this year he's riding a .379 BABIP. Sox are better when Holt is the UTIF/OF.
If the Sox would have went in to last season with WMB and Holt as the 3B options, I would have lost my mind. Holt was exposed last year once he played full time and this year he's riding a .379 BABIP. Sox are better when Holt is the UTIF/OF.
Do we really know that Holt will always start playing poorly every time he gets sustained every day playing time? That might be a sample size thing, like Pedroia starting off his career at the end of 2006 and beginning of 2007 with an OPS in the .500s over 160 or so plate appearances. I mean, why should a good athlete/good ballplayer like Holt not be able to sustain good play full time? Of course, mostly hindsight, but I really wish Sandoval had taken the Giants offer. They're ecstatic he didn't because their new third baseman is far outplaying Pablo at one 35th the cost.Hee Sox Choi said:
Holt's been lucky on batted balls in play. Three different projection systems have his ROS at 272/.329/.365 (Fangraphs). Could he outplay those projections? Sure, but that's what advanced statistics are for - making an educated guess. Holt's D is fringe-average at 3B (to my eye). I would hope Panda can play much better than that on both sides of the ball. Not to mention, Holt is a real weapon as someone who can play every position. Why eliminate his greatest strength?
By the end of the season, I'm betting that Sandoval is much better than Matt Duffy.
By the end of the season, I'm betting that Sandoval is much better than Matt Duffy.
Well, that's the problem and why they overreacted. They have pressure to win the World Series every year, even coming off a last-place season.Hee Sox Choi said:
Given that even if Panda had performed to expectations it wouldn't make a lick of difference this year, then yeah, it was perfectly fine to go into the year with two potential options at third who you have questions about, but who cost basically nothing and are easy to cut if you get someone better.
Panda's defense has also been really bad. Maybe he'll stop throwing the ball away but maybe he won't and at best he's average.
That'll be interesting to see play out. ML pitchers will probably figure something out with Duffy, like they did with Betts, then he'll have to adjust. Does fielding go into a slump though? So far this year, Duffy has looked good and Pablo not. Eh, it's all hindsight. We're stuck with what Ben got us.Hee Sox Choi said:
Hee Sox Choi said:
WMB is also 26. I'm not saying he should have been an option for the Sox as their starting 3B in 2015, but he has shown some signs of life in San Diego.
Not fair to look at that and make a judgment. He had just eaten an entire ham.BannedbyNYYFans.com said:He looks awful out there.
33.7% of his BIP are line drives. He's fucking raking, there's no doubt about it. If he had enough at bats, he'd lead the league in LD% per fangraphs.JBJ_HOF said:
I'm all for him taking some of Panda's at bats until Panda gets hot -- which it looks like after last night, despite some ugly swings on high fastballs, he might be about to.
Rovin Romine said:
This is very intriguing, and something that's been knocking around my brain the past few days. I wonder if the Sox took this possibility seriously. That this team slumped collectively is what's killing us. It's been very frustrating, but if just one of Ortiz, Napoli and Sandoval were off to a rough start, I don't think the board is losing their mind over these deals.
It's a long season. I don't think it would be unreasonable to think we might not right the ship, or that guys might get hot too late, but Sandoval has looked good enough for stretches that I also don't think his deal is horrible, or an albatross, or any of that, as some people are saying. That seems obviously preemptive and an emotional reaction.
At 1/35th the salary this year. Duffy could fall apart like Middlebrooks did, I know.nattysez said: