That was then: Celebrating what was

vicirus

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Jul 17, 2005
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That looks to be the 2nd half of the show. Nothing earth shattering or worth going out of your way to seek out in my opinion. Basically an NFL version of pop-up video (for those that remember the VH1 Show).
 

streeter88

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Um.... really?
I thought the 360 technology by Intel on the first Pats TD was pretty interesting, but unfortunately they didn't use it again in the video - would have been very revealing on the Julio Jones and Edelman catches, and on the game winning White TD as well.

Lots of footage from other videos, but not a bad thing.
 

vicirus

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Jul 17, 2005
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Um.... really?
I was replying to Al Zarilla on the previous page who asked my opinion... for instance, they had a running count of how many times Matt Ryan said "lets go" and the nicknames of Amendola (squeaky) and Edelman (minitron). There weren't a lot of interesting new stats/facts, more fluff in my opinion.
 

NortheasternPJ

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Working late so i figured I'd throw on LI in the background. Never noticed on the Hightower fumble, the OL covering Long has his hand literally under Long's facemask and pushing up his chin / face. If that didn't happen, Long may have caused the fumble.

Edit: i know it's been said many times around here, but the whole Atlanta offensive sequence around 4 minutes (after the Julio Jones catch) is a complete disaster all around. It's impressive how badly Atlanta screwed that up.
 
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snowmanny

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It's incredible that Ryan is whining about Shanahan's slow and too aggressive playcalling when he is, you know, the guy who had the ball. He could have just chucked the ball away and set up the blocked field goal attempt.
 

TheoShmeo

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Working late so i figured I'd throw on LI in the background. Never noticed on the Hightower fumble, the OL covering Long has his hand literally under Long's facemask and pushing up his chin / face. If that didn't happen, Long may have caused the fumble.

Edit: i know it's been said many times around here, but the whole Atlanta offensive sequence around 4 minutes (after the Julio Jones catch) is a complete disaster all around. It's impressive how badly Atlanta screwed that up.
I noticed that recently, as well.

As a fan who remains highly agitated at the mention of Ben Dreith, one of the amazing things about this game is that the Pats benefited from the refs MISSING two obvious penalties against them and avoiding having plays or calls negated. In addition to the one you just mentioned, Sanu could easily have been called for facemasking Ryan (as could Ryan on Sanu), which would have offset the penalty call against Long on that pass. The refs getting it right on either call could have changed things dramatically, and it's not like the Pats had any margin for error at that point in the game.

Along similar lines, I recently re-watched the Ty Law pick 6 and remain astonished that Vrabel wasn't called for roughing the passer. That play was 100x worse than whatever Sugar Bay Hamilton didn't do to Stabler. And no, I will not let this go.
 

InstaFace

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How did we benefit from Long not being the beneficiary of a hands-to-the-face call? Yes, Hightower got the strip sack and we recovered, but I don't see how we were any better off for the missed call.

Along similar lines, I'm curious if anyone (perhaps @ConigliarosPotential ) had seen some things they think should have been called against the Pats, or could have been called, but weren't. As a fan, it's easy to complain about the things like the erroneous call on the XP block, and somehow miss the things that went in our favor.
 

Dollar

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Along similar lines, I'm curious if anyone (perhaps @ConigliarosPotential ) had seen some things they think should have been called against the Pats, or could have been called, but weren't. As a fan, it's easy to complain about the things like the erroneous call on the XP block, and somehow miss the things that went in our favor.
The one that comes to mind immediately is the possible chop block by Shaq Mason (and David Andrews) on the pass to James White in overtime. I think that gets called at least half the time it happens.

 
Along similar lines, I'm curious if anyone (perhaps @ConigliarosPotential ) had seen some things they think should have been called against the Pats, or could have been called, but weren't. As a fan, it's easy to complain about the things like the erroneous call on the XP block, and somehow miss the things that went in our favor.
Nope, still haven't gone back and watched the second half.

Come to think of it, I doubt Jackie Kennedy ever watched the Zapruder Film, let alone forensically dissected it.
 

NortheasternPJ

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I noticed that recently, as well.

As a fan who remains highly agitated at the mention of Ben Dreith, one of the amazing things about this game is that the Pats benefited from the refs MISSING two obvious penalties against them and avoiding having plays or calls negated. In addition to the one you just mentioned, Sanu could easily have been called for facemasking Ryan (as could Ryan on Sanu), which would have offset the penalty call against Long on that pass. The refs getting it right on either call could have changed things dramatically, and it's not like the Pats had any margin for error at that point in the game.

Along similar lines, I recently re-watched the Ty Law pick 6 and remain astonished that Vrabel wasn't called for roughing the passer. That play was 100x worse than whatever Sugar Bay Hamilton didn't do to Stabler. And no, I will not let this go.
If i was a Falcons fan, I know I'd be completely bullshit with the final two point conversion. The Pats pushed the blocking at the line of scrimmage from the WRs to the max. I'd be going to my grave saying they blocked downfield, which they probably did. At best for the Falcons though it's replayed since they were offsides, but that's beside the point. When you blow a giant lead like that you're grasping for reasons why.
 

rodderick

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If i was a Falcons fan, I know I'd be completely bullshit with the final two point conversion. The Pats pushed the blocking at the line of scrimmage from the WRs to the max. I'd be going to my grave saying they blocked downfield, which they probably did. At best for the Falcons though it's replayed since they were offsides, but that's beside the point. When you blow a giant lead like that you're grasping for reasons why.
Isn't It allowed to happen within one yard of the LOS?
 

InstaFace

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Yes, if you engage further than 1 yard downfield, you'll sometimes get flagged. But if you engage within 1 yard, succeed in pushing back, and continue the block for a few yards after engaging, I believe it's very rare to get flagged unless you really carry on to a near-The Blind Side-esque degree.
 

PC Drunken Friar

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I noticed that recently, as well.

As a fan who remains highly agitated at the mention of Ben Dreith, one of the amazing things about this game is that the Pats benefited from the refs MISSING two obvious penalties against them and avoiding having plays or calls negated. In addition to the one you just mentioned, Sanu could easily have been called for facemasking Ryan (as could Ryan on Sanu), which would have offset the penalty call against Long on that pass. The refs getting it right on either call could have changed things dramatically, and it's not like the Pats had any margin for error at that point in the game.

Along similar lines, I recently re-watched the Ty Law pick 6 and remain astonished that Vrabel wasn't called for roughing the passer. That play was 100x worse than whatever Sugar Bay Hamilton didn't do to Stabler. And no, I will not let this go.
In 2002, the refs were not calling the hands to the face like they are today. It's the same reason why they didn't call hands to the face when Woodson hit Brady in the divisional round.

The refs back then don't call that 99 out of a 100.

Sent from my XT1650 using SoSH mobile app
 

Soxy

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Working late so i figured I'd throw on LI in the background. Never noticed on the Hightower fumble, the OL covering Long has his hand literally under Long's facemask and pushing up his chin / face. If that didn't happen, Long may have caused the fumble.

Edit: i know it's been said many times around here, but the whole Atlanta offensive sequence around 4 minutes (after the Julio Jones catch) is a complete disaster all around. It's impressive how badly Atlanta screwed that up.
There's a great clip of Long talking to Hightower on the sideline after the fumble, playfully saying "Shoot, I thought I had him."

A lot of post-hoc analysis of that play pointed out how wide open the Atlanta receiver was going deep (I forget who it was) and lamented that, if only Freeman hadn't missed the block, the Falcons may have had a touchdown. But that completely ignores Long. Even if Long doesn't sack Ryan, he likely affects the throw. I didn't see a single analyst in the "what if" brigade point that out. But he's not very far behind Hightower.

The one that comes to mind immediately is the possible chop block by Shaq Mason (and David Andrews) on the pass to James White in overtime. I think that gets called at least half the time it happens.

That's definitely one of them. I remember seeing someone else point out (think it was Cian Fahey) that Hogan could have been called for OPI on the Amendola 2-pt conversion. Watch that replay and keep an eye on Hogan after the play, as he sees that there's a flag on the ground. He definitely appears to have a brief moment of "oh shit, I hope that flag isn't on me." Would have been offsetting due to the offsides on Freeney, so wouldn't have moved them back. But obviously would have had to try another conversion. IIRC, someone on the Pats (I think it was Brady or Belichick, maybe McDaniels) said that that was the only 2-pt play they had left in the gameplan that they hadn't already called at some point in the game. So it would've been interesting to see what they would have ran there (thank god it didn't come to that).
 

PedroKsBambino

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There's a great clip of Long talking to Hightower on the sideline after the fumble, playfully saying "Shoot, I thought I had him."
That's definitely one of them. I remember seeing someone else point out (think it was Cian Fahey) that Hogan could have been called for OPI on the Amendola 2-pt conversion. Watch that replay and keep an eye on Hogan after the play, as he sees that there's a flag on the ground. He definitely appears to have a brief moment of "oh shit, I hope that flag isn't on me." Would have been offsetting due to the offsides on Freeney, so wouldn't have moved them back. But obviously would have had to try another conversion. IIRC, someone on the Pats (I think it was Brady or Belichick, maybe McDaniels) said that that was the only 2-pt play they had left in the gameplan that they hadn't already called at some point in the game. So it would've been interesting to see what they would have ran there (thank god it didn't come to that).
I have seen it reported that the game-winning play was actually one of the 2 pt conversion plays---don't know that it is true.
 

Soxy

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I have seen it reported that the game-winning play was actually one of the 2 pt conversion plays---don't know that it is true.
You're right. I was mixing up the stories in my memory. According to the big Brady piece by Peter King, that TD by White was the last remaining play in their 2-pt package:
The end: James White, who made so many plays in this game, took a pitch from Brady and willed his way into the end zone. Replay confirmed it.

Remember the two two-point conversions, and the Patriots having a third one on their call sheet? Well, this White run was that third one. New England went three-for-three on two-point plays in the game, and the net result was 10 points—and a Super Bowl championship.
 

Super Nomario

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There's a great clip of Long talking to Hightower on the sideline after the fumble, playfully saying "Shoot, I thought I had him."

A lot of post-hoc analysis of that play pointed out how wide open the Atlanta receiver was going deep (I forget who it was) and lamented that, if only Freeman hadn't missed the block, the Falcons may have had a touchdown. But that completely ignores Long. Even if Long doesn't sack Ryan, he likely affects the throw. I didn't see a single analyst in the "what if" brigade point that out. But he's not very far behind Hightower.
Long only played 15 snaps, but he torched Jake Matthews on several plays. He had Matthews on skates on that play.

That's definitely one of them. I remember seeing someone else point out (think it was Cian Fahey) that Hogan could have been called for OPI on the Amendola 2-pt conversion. Watch that replay and keep an eye on Hogan after the play, as he sees that there's a flag on the ground. He definitely appears to have a brief moment of "oh shit, I hope that flag isn't on me." Would have been offsetting due to the offsides on Freeney, so wouldn't have moved them back. But obviously would have had to try another conversion. IIRC, someone on the Pats (I think it was Brady or Belichick, maybe McDaniels) said that that was the only 2-pt play they had left in the gameplan that they hadn't already called at some point in the game. So it would've been interesting to see what they would have ran there (thank god it didn't come to that).
They had three two-point plays and the final one was the last White run. http://nesn.com/2017/02/patriots-botched-james-white-two-point-play-in-final-super-bowl-practice/

Man, could you imagine if they ran that last outside run with White to tie the game at 28 late? I wasn't that worried about him barely getting in because it was going to set up 3rd-and-inches, but if it was for the tie? Yeesh.
 

BuellMiller

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Mar 25, 2015
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The one that comes to mind immediately is the possible chop block by Shaq Mason (and David Andrews) on the pass to James White in overtime. I think that gets called at least half the time it happens.

I'm assuming it doesn't actually make a difference on the blocking rules, but I'm pretty sure that was a run by White (since the pass was backwards or at best a lateral).
 

E5 Yaz

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Brady's secret skill
Brian Hoyer, Patriots quarterback, 2009-11: "We played up at Buffalo and we couldn't fly back into Boston because the weather was so bad, so we had to stay the night in Rochester. We drove there, and we all decided we'd go out to dinner together. Tom being who he was, he usually couldn't come to a team event like that. We might be at Capital Grille and he is sneaking in the back door and then people realize he's there and he has to leave. But this was impromptu at Dinosaur Bar-B-Que in Rochester. The whole team is there. And it turns into a beer-chugging contest. You have linemen, Julian Edelman, they all think they are going to win. Then someone says, 'I heard Tom is really great at chugging a beer.' We don't usually get to experience him like this, but we finally coax him into doing it. He does it, and let me tell you, you couldn't have poured out the beer faster into a glass. It was unbelievable. And he slams the mug on the table and puts both fists in the air. He walks away with a look on his face that said, 'You really thought you were going to beat me on this?' The place went nuts."

Do not try this at home
Bill Belichick, Patriots head coach, 2000-present: "When we played golf at Pebble Beach two years ago, on the sixth hole, it's a big cliff. He's literally standing out there on the ledge, trying to hit the ball. The caddie is holding him so he won't like tumble 300 feet to his death into the Pacific Ocean. It's a golf ball. But I think that's kind of the competitiveness of Tom. I'm sure there's a picture of it. I'm thinking to myself, 'What the hell are you doing?'"

'I'll throw it to whoever the f--- I want!'
Mike Vrabel, Patriots linebacker, 2001-08: "My indoctrination to the goal-line [offense]: I had maybe caught a couple touchdowns and was feeling pretty good about myself, and we went to practice one day and I broke free on a crossing route or something like that. So I start yelling, 'Tom! Tom! Tom!' and I'm waving my hands. But he doesn't throw it to me. I come back, and we're in the huddle when he says, 'Mikey, if you ever wave your f---in' hands and ask for the ball again, I'll never throw it to you. I know who's open. I'm the quarterback, I'll throw it to whoever the f--- I want!' That was the last time I ever called for the ball."

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20222434/tom-brady-40th-birthday-stories-never-heard-nfl-2017-new-england-patriots
 
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DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Just a couple of small points, after catching up with one of my favorite threads on the site . . . .

That's a really great article, Yaz.

On the chop block and Hogan engaging the receiver on the game tying two point play, I feel like we discussed those pretty extensively after the game. I think the general consensus was definitely yes, a chop block, no the fact that the play was a lateral not a pass did not matter, and Hogan initiated contact and released the contact early enough and sufficiently to avoid a penalty based on the way that play is called.

On the Hightower missed block, it's yet another of the "little things" that contributed so significantly to the win by the Patriots, but that was Freeman's first play on a series in which he wasn't even supposed to be in the game. It was the first play immediately after Coleman's injury. Just seconds before Coleman got injured, Freeman was shown on the sideline with his helmet in his hand. If Coleman doesn't get hurt, Freeman is not in there looking like a deer in the headlights unable to figure out what he's supposed to be doing in the first play after entering the game when he likely wasn't mentally prepared to be there.
 

Super Nomario

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This is amazing. Half the stories, I'm like, "what a great guy!" and half I'm like, "what an overly-competitive dickhead!" That's my quarterback.

Brady's secret skill
Brian Hoyer, Patriots quarterback, 2009-11: "We played up at Buffalo and we couldn't fly back into Boston because the weather was so bad, so we had to stay the night in Rochester. We drove there, and we all decided we'd go out to dinner together. Tom being who he was, he usually couldn't come to a team event like that. We might be at Capital Grille and he is sneaking in the back door and then people realize he's there and he has to leave. But this was impromptu at Dinosaur Bar-B-Que in Rochester. The whole team is there. And it turns into a beer-chugging contest. You have linemen, Julian Edelman, they all think they are going to win. Then someone says, 'I heard Tom is really great at chugging a beer.' We don't usually get to experience him like this, but we finally coax him into doing it. He does it, and let me tell you, you couldn't have poured out the beer faster into a glass. It was unbelievable. And he slams the mug on the table and puts both fists in the air. He walks away with a look on his face that said, 'You really thought you were going to beat me on this?' The place went nuts."
Ross Tucker has a very similar story about Brady:
http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/97767202/tom-bradys-will-to-win-chugging-ross-tucker

Some of the veteran offensive linemen started talking to the rookies about a chugging contest. No big deal for these guys and given that they were fresh out of college, you would think they'd be at the top of their game. I was surprised to see Brady take part. The rookies looked at the seemingly pretty boy quarterback and laughed. I think I snickered myself.

We all should've known better.

I still have never seen anybody chug a beer faster than Tom Brady. You should've seen the way he slammed down his cup -- it was like he was spiking the ball after a TD. It was hilarious. It was awesome. It was textbook Brady.