Super Bowl LVII - Chiefs vs Eagles in Glendale

RIrooter09

Alvin
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Jul 31, 2008
7,302
how i see the afc next year
1 KC
2 Ciny
3 Buff
4 Jax
5 LAC or den
6 DEN or LAC
7 MIA/NE
8 NE/MIA/TENN
9 tenn
10 balt
11 nyj moves up to 4 if they get rodgers
12 pitt
13 hou
14 vegas
15 cle
16 indy
You think Payton is elevating Denver from a bottom 5 NFL team to a top 5 AFC team?
 

Remagellan

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All he really has to do is figure out how to turn Russell Wilson around. If he does that, they have all the other pieces.
And he does have a history of working with undersized QBs--and Jacksonville's improvement this season shows how significantly a team can improve when they go from a guy who doesn't know what he's doing to a competent coach. And Payton is beyond competent.
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
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Oct 31, 2013
76,318
If Javonte and the rest of the injured players come back strong, he can definitely challenge for the #2 spot in the division. And that may/should be enough for the wildcard.
defense is strong
Good WR weapons
Just need health and Rwil to regain ability.
 

Al Zarilla

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Dec 8, 2005
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No. Not even close. It's not even in the top 5. It was a game that ended on a, um, flag.

That is one of the more absurd things you could ever hear.

Off the top of my head, the Pitt/Dallas SBs were better. The Patriots versus the Rams (2001) and the Seahawks and Falcons are ahead. The Rams versus the Titans was better. Broncos GB was better. Niners Bengals was better. Maybe both of them. Bills Giants was better. I would even say NE Carolina was better. The ending of that game was insane. Giants Patriots was better.

Ok, I'm done. It's not even in the same galaxy as best ever. Just kind of absurd and hot takey.
The John Candy sighting...Joe Montana two minute drill drive TD pass to John Taylor, not the Bill Walsh dresses up like a pullman to loosen up the team one?
 

streeter88

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Apr 2, 2006
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Mods, there seem to be 2 or 3 new threads in this SB game thread. Supporting the new threads are good view, would you consider breaking out:
  1. Greatest SB of all time? Discuss...
  2. Early 2023 outlook
  3. Too Soon? Thoughts on Mahomes as the Kid (i.e. not yet fully grown GOAT)
Or is everybody happy just to keep discussing these topics in here?

OK, time to go back to bed.
 

trekfan55

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I am in for a Greatest SB of all time thread. If you all are ok maybe we can move the content there and talk about it? Gives us something fun to talk about in the offseason
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
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Jan 15, 2004
31,284
Wasn't in here for a ton of last night so this may have already been covered, but I keep coming back to the time out Sirianni wasted to avoid a delay of game. I'm trying to find some data on 3rd down conversion rates at 11 yards vs 16 and coming up short. (According to this reddit thread about the 2018 season, it was about 2.5 times as likely to convert the shorter distance that year, but I'd like something that looks at more data, and is more nuanced with regards to elite offenses vs league average.) But I can't help but think the value of having 3 time outs in an end game situation should trump almost any individual situation where you don't ABSOLUTELY NEED a first down to keep the game alive.
That’s a tough ask to time the TO with the clock when you are allowed to go beyond :00 before you snap the ball. I’m sure Siriani had confidence in Hurts and Kelce to get the play or more than he valued the TO over the penalty.
 

speedracer

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Jul 19, 2005
3,953
Good article in WashPost today about why the field was so bad - not surprisingly the NFL chose aesthetics over quality. I'm no agronomist, but it was too much slick ryegrass mixed with the more appropriate but less green Bermudagrass: "Whereas Bermudagrass goes dormant in cold weather and turns brownish-yellow, ryegrass grows lush green. But ryegrass is naturally waxy to the touch and slippery."
dunno how transferable the tradecraft is, but supposedly the English premier league invests a lot into making sure its fields are bright green for TV without any loss in playability.
 

Van Everyman

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Apr 30, 2009
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Newton
I really wish that I hadn’t searched for that exchange.
Ok even tho I suspect this will only drag this out further, I will try to clear up where I was coming from on this since you are bringing this up in the train derailment(!) thread.

A bunch of posters had an immediate and harshly negative take on Rihanna’s performance – not only talking about how Rihanna looked pregnant, but also how she was lip syncing and how her show sucked compared to the Who and Tom Petty. It felt pretty clearly like dude hive mind/energy justified by “My wife also says she looks pregnant!”

On the lip-syncing issue, as one poster correctly noted, she had pre-recorded background vocals and double tracks, but was clearly singing live on top of that. Rihanna is a hell of a singer, FWIW.

More to the point: the show—the music, style and aesthetic—wasn’t really targeted to middle aged dudes like a lot of us here. My thirteen and fifteen year old daughters both loved it unconditionally, called her performance “straight fire” and both loved her costume as well.

Now, cool, it turned out Rihanna was pregnant after all (even one of my daughters asked near the end of her performance after gushing about the whole thing). And I suspect some posters querying about the pregnancy thing weren’t also complaining about the performance, so it may have been a case of me reacting to the sum total of negative reactions.

But it just kind of felt like a lot of dudes teetering close to kind of an unpleasant line. If I was wrong to draw that conclusion, I apologize. /end
 

Jace II

no rules
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Jul 14, 2005
778
The distinction between TE and WR is not a useful one here. Kelce is one of the best receivers in the league, period; you can slap whatever label you want on him otherwise to make a more narrow point about a position group, but with his usage and production he is a top 5-10 receiver.

And I’m not sure I agree they have less skill talent. KC had pretty pedestrian skill players behind Kelce and Hill for a couple of years running, and now they have more quality players up and down their skill groups. One of the reasons they traded him was to give themselves the cap flexibility to not have guys like Demarcus Robinson and Byron Pringle as top 4-5 options on offense.
They may not have had less skill talent than prior KC years, but I think they clearly had less than their last 2 opponents this year (partially due to draft position and increasingly to Mahomes' salary). Ja'marr Chase, Tee Higgins, Mixon and role players, then AJ Brown, Devonta Smith, Goedert, Miles Sanders / Gainwell and role players both feel significantly stronger than Kelce, Smith-Schuster, and Pacheco and role players.

It's easy to see why both of those opponents threw deep way more than Mahomes. Mahomes mostly has possession receivers that can't compete for jump balls. If you switch those skill groups between teams, it's probably not a fair fight.

8slim said:
To me the media reaction isn't nearly as detestable as it was for Jeter, who was an above average player making a notable, but limited, impact for his juggernaut team.
Jeter definitely got an outsized media reaction, but "above average" is a bit too far the other way. He averaged 5 bWAR (and fWAR) per year for 13 years between 1997 and 2009
 

Jace II

no rules
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Jul 14, 2005
778
A bunch of posters had an immediate and harshly negative take on Rihanna’s performance – not only talking about how Rihanna looked pregnant, but also how she was lip syncing and how her show sucked compared to the Who and Tom Petty. It felt pretty clearly like dude hive mind/energy justified by “My wife also says she looks pregnant!”
I personally was completely oblivious to the pregnancy thing. My thought in the moment was that her presence and vocals were awesome, and that she looked like she was conserving energy physically (at least compared to the insanely manic background dancers), or at least being careful to not fall off/destabilize floating platforms.

Finding out that she was pregnant immediately made sense to me on her physically not going all out. I just thought it was a great performance in general, always interesting to hear how nasty people get about this stuff.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
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Nov 4, 2007
62,923
She was very clearly pregnant and said she used the performance to introduce the child to the world. I hadn’t seen the show when I read the conversation here and thought maybe she just came with the thickness, but no that was pretty obviously a pregnant woman proudly being pregnant.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
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Sep 9, 2008
43,971
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Wasn't the SOSH controversy about observations that Rihanna was pregnant that some posters were essentially saying that "is she pregnant" is often a body shaming question, so others were effectively saying that it might just be that she had recently had a baby?

"You look pregnant" is just not a thing to say even to a likely pregnant woman, unless and until she brings it up, and I kind of think that that all that was going on in the thread. Maybe that rule doesn't apply to pop stars on tv? I dunno.

I went back and re-read the pages in question and it really doesn't seem to awful to me. I think people were talking past each other. And then some bickering about whether backing vocals should be pre-recorded at a live show, with nobody seeming to care all that much.

Other than that, just some people who like the show and some who didn't. Which would be the case with pretty much every show, I imagine.
 

snowmanny

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Dec 8, 2005
16,157
Obviously. Had I been there I would have congratulated her before she said a word about it.

edit or what ddb said
 

Fred in Lynn

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Not Lynn (or Ocean Side)
That’s some real low-class trash for Juju to attach his name to that. I suppose he doesn’t realize or care that he was the beneficiary of a whimsical side judge. Until that DPI flag, they didn’t call a single offensive hold, defensive hold, or OPI in the game. The baseline the refs set was letting them play, until it wasn’t.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
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Nov 4, 2007
62,923
Yeah that’s funny enough you put it out there and let the chips fall. Don’t lose the super bowl if you don’t wanna get clowned for losing the super bowl.
 

EvilEmpire

paying for his sins
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Apr 9, 2007
17,520
Washington
WRs and DBs talk so much shit to each other on the field that I don't mind at all when some small portion of it makes it into the public sphere.

Especially if it's clever.

Adds another layer of interest when we see those 1 on 1 battles in the next game.
 

BigSoxFan

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May 31, 2007
47,896
WRs and DBs talk so much shit to each other on the field that I don't mind at all when some small portion of it makes it into the public sphere.

Especially if it's clever.

Adds another layer of interest when we see those 1 on 1 battles in the next game.
I mean, it’s not like JuJu came up with the meme or anything. He just shared it. But I do love sports beefs.
 

Jungleland

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Aug 2, 2009
2,397
Yeah, it’s funny. Also, the JuJu redemption is one of the silver linings of a Chiefs victory. He’s taken some shit in the post Robin to AB’s Batman phase of his career, had a brutal concussion this year, saw his team trade for a younger, more explosive player in Toney, and then delivered on the biggest stage. Hold aside he was massive on the drive where KC took control of the game.
 

j44thor

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Aug 1, 2006
11,249
Former NFL QB JT O'Sullivan has a fantastic Youtube channel called the QB School where he regularly breaks down all-22 film and has put out detailed videos on both Hurts and Mahommes in the SB. Here is the link to the Hurts breakdown he just put out. View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO7u7LXrXfk&ab_channel=TheQBSchool


Couple things that really stand out is that by far the biggest difference in this game was the coaching. KC had much better schemes and executed their schemes at a much higher level as evidenced in the Mahommes break down on his channel. Hurts masked some significant flaws in play design and execution by the heralded PHI OL. Kelce in particular seemed to really struggle setting proper protections.

Another thing I'll take a mea culpa on is that at least in the plays JT showed, which don't include all the plays but a significant sample size, there really were no missed calls by the refs in the defensive secondary. I still think they could have let the hold go but I can't say they let things go until that point as there was virtually no contact in the secondary on either side, certainly nothing that stood out in either of the tapes outside of Bradberry.
 

j-man

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Dec 19, 2012
3,814
Arkansas
You think Payton is elevating Denver from a bottom 5 NFL team to a top 5 AFC team?
possible
denver was 4 plays last year from 9-8 which is denver talent level right now
and a missed DPI aga the jets in the 2nd q as well
plus denver has the 4th place sch which means WC CLE @ HOU as Ex games
also 22 Players was on IR last season

now if wilson is done done u are right but wilson showed a lot in the final 2 games of last season
 

snowmanny

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Dec 8, 2005
16,157
possible
denver was 4 plays last year from 9-8 which is denver talent level right now
and a missed DPI aga the jets in the 2nd q as well
plus denver has the 4th place sch which means WC CLE @ HOU as Ex games
also 22 Players was on IR last season

now if wilson is done done u are right but wilson showed a lot in the final 2 games of last season
Almost every team can point to a few what-if games, even the Jets. Being 26th in point differential makes me hesitant about buying what you're selling.
 

Ferm Sheller

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Mar 5, 2007
21,544
That's not a foul. Hands to the face has to either be a forcible blow to the head or prolonged contact. And that is rulebook language. I don't think it's a blow and I don't think it's prolonged.
This might be a dumb question, but could it have been called a hold (or some other penalty)? He did impede the rusher's progress for a bit by making contact with his face mask or side of his helmet.
 

j44thor

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Aug 1, 2006
11,249
That's not a foul. Hands to the face has to either be a forcible blow to the head or prolonged contact. And that is rulebook language. I don't think it's a blow and I don't think it's prolonged.
Thanks for weighing in on that, I suspected that to be the case. What I found interesting in watching the all-22 when KC was on offense is the OL were exceptional with their hands and did a lot of quick head slaps at the snap that likely was just enough not to warrant a call. I didn't see any egregious missed holding calls but was curious if any of their head slaps would have qualified as hands to face and based on the definition I think it would fall just short and thus likely good technique/coaching. They weren't what I would call forcible, more just to throw off the DL vision and balance and were quite effective.
 

Justthetippett

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Aug 9, 2015
2,863
So should Bill have re-signed Thuney instead of letting him walk?
I don't think so but he's definitely helped KC. Guard is one of the better position areas now for the Pats and it's a position they've also drafted well historically, so it's a good place to build cheaply. Thuney has had a hell of a career for a 4th rounder.
 

j-man

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Dec 19, 2012
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Arkansas
Almost every team can point to a few what-if games, even the Jets. Being 26th in point differential makes me hesitant about buying what you're selling.
u have to trhow out the ram game if u do they are -35 in point diff the 2022 broncos was kind of like the 2010 broncos hopefully 23 starts a more compitve team
 

j44thor

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Aug 1, 2006
11,249
I've got new found respect for Mahommes after watching him hand the fans the SB trophy during their parade. Had no idea he would get this blasted during the parade Brady TB style.

 

luckiestman

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Jul 15, 2005
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I've got new found respect for Mahommes after watching him hand the fans the SB trophy during their parade. Had no idea he would get this blasted during the parade Brady TB style.

Love it. I was in Canton and got to see that particular trophy but didn’t get my hands on it like that.
 

Old Fart Tree

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possible
denver was 4 plays last year from 9-8 which is denver talent level right now
and a missed DPI aga the jets in the 2nd q as well
plus denver has the 4th place sch which means WC CLE @ HOU as Ex games
also 22 Players was on IR last season

now if wilson is done done u are right but wilson showed a lot in the final 2 games of last season
That team could go 9-8 next year but “realistic contender” ain’t gonna happen.
 
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