Spurs 23/24: I'm Loving Big Ange Instead

Zososoxfan · Nov 10, 2023

What does everyone think the XI looks like tomorrow? Pretty big questions at LCB and AMF:

Brennan-Son-Kulu
GLC-Biss-Sarr
Emerson-Philips-Dier-Porro
Vic

I'm thinking Philips gets the nod at LCB because he's almost certainly faster than the alternatives being floated--Davies and Hoj--and because Ange has showed he doesn't mind playing young players (Sarr and Brennan). I could easily see Davies getting the nod though if he's fit, and a shout for Hoj isn't the worst as his passing is very good when not on the turn and we could use that.

At AMF, GLC is the most like-for-like swap we have for Madders. Ben10 may get the start because he's just a better player when fully fit, but I think GLC's creativity is significantly better than Ben10. I don't know if Sarr is creative like that, but I also don't know that GLC can cover the ground that Sarr can as the B2B guy. Maybe Hoj gets the start in MF and pushes Sarr up? I love me some Bryan Gil but I don't think he's going to get first dibs on this spot, but I really wouldn't mind seeing him here either.

What say you?

Jimy Hendrix · Nov 11, 2023

If Ange isn’t even starting GLC with Maddison out, it’s not happening with that guy and he’s only in the squad until we buy a Maddison backup the manager actually trusts.

Zososoxfan · Nov 13, 2023

Jimy Hendrix said:
If Ange isn’t even starting GLC with Maddison out, it’s not happening with that guy and he’s only in the squad until we buy a Maddison backup the manager actually trusts.

Agreed, that was disappointing. The only caveats I'd add to that are that with Udogie and Romero out, perhaps Ange was trying to protect the backline more, even if that's not his M.O. However, I do think GLC may have a chance to start once one or both of those guys are back and Ange feels more comfortable getting his typical attack/defense balance back on the field.

Jimy Hendrix · Nov 13, 2023

Zososoxfan said:
Agreed, that was disappointing. The only caveats I'd add to that are that with Udogie and Romero out, perhaps Ange was trying to protect the backline more, even if that's not his M.O. However, I do think GLC may have a chance to start once one or both of those guys are back and Ange feels more comfortable getting his typical attack/defense balance back on the field.

That's totally possible. I will say that what is both true is that the midfield looked a lot more fluent with GLC on the field and also that was when Spurs got sucker punched for two goals, so who knows what was taken from those facts.

Jimy Hendrix · Nov 26, 2023

I shit on Lo Celso plenty in this thread, but I believe in nothing if not the truth and the truth is he was excellent today.

Kliq · Nov 27, 2023

I liked Gil's energy but thought he was largely disappointing when he had the ball at his feet and one of the primary reasons Spurs only scored one goal despite dominating possession and touches in the opponent's box.

The CB-less line held up pretty well, all things considered. The first goal I think maybe doesn't happen with a proper backline given the height limitations of the FBs, but the second goal was really just a brilliant take from Watkins, who got the ball out very quickly and slotted it home perfectly.

Bentancur played a great first 30 minutes and his passing made up for a lot of the creativity lost with Maddision out, what a shame for him to go off early with a knock.

Tangled Up In Red · Nov 27, 2023

Gil was good, but far, far too cautious.
He got in good spaces, had good energy... but seemed afraid to attack, go at the man. We'll see if the confidence/arrogance (necessary) is in his locker -- if he gets another chance.

Jimy Hendrix · Nov 27, 2023

DJnVa said:
What did you think of Gil?

He fits into Ange's tactics in a way that he hasn't come close to fitting in with any other manager at Spurs, and it brings him back for me to the level that he was at a few years ago. Specifically that of a useful depth winger with the potential to evolve into more, but without the cutting edge yet. I liked his effort (always have even under worse fitting managers) and I liked his cleverness in combination and some of his moves, but the things said about him by others in this thread are right (too cautious, too much backpassing & backwards dribbling, not enough final third quality yet).

Zososoxfan · Nov 28, 2023

Tangled Up In Red said:
Gil was good, but far, far too cautious.
He got in good spaces, had good energy... but seemed afraid to attack, go at the man. We'll see if the confidence/arrogance (necessary) is in his locker -- if he gets another chance.

Jimy Hendrix said:
He fits into Ange's tactics in a way that he hasn't come close to fitting in with any other manager at Spurs, and it brings him back for me to the level that he was at a few years ago. Specifically that of a useful depth winger with the potential to evolve into more, but without the cutting edge yet. I liked his effort (always have even under worse fitting managers) and I liked his cleverness in combination and some of his moves, but the things said about him by others in this thread are right (too cautious, too much backpassing & backwards dribbling, not enough final third quality yet).

Man, I want to LOVE Bryan but I'm not seeing it. He's very slight and gets knocked off the ball easily. He does know how to find space and he's very silky, but his decision-making is dreadful. There's a player in there, but it's going to take him getting more games than he deserves to get there and even if he does find those highs, I have no confidence he can keep it up. Again, I really like the guy (he really looks like a member of the Beatles out there) and want him to do well, but to me he looks like the stereotypical winger than belongs in La Liga, not EPL. Even if that epithet is overused, it's accurate for him IMO.

As a huge GLC stan, I felt pretty vindicated by this game. The guy has the tools and even with his good performance I saw lots of room for improvement. I really liked Deki at the 10 and I think GLC is in his best position at the 8, but I think there was too much rotation in the squad (Gil, no Biss or CBs) for Deki to shine. He was also terrific on the wing, so basically Deki is good and it's just about slotting him in wherever he's most needed.

I was really surprised the team didn't try to play down the right to get Johnson more involved from the jump. Lots of attacks seem to fall flat once they got to Gil, and usually when that happens the guys on the field will start playing down the other side. I get that Udogie and GLC were operating more on the left side too and they're legit weapons, but I think Johnson needs to get fed the ball constantly because he can beat most FBs easily and that will force the opposition to react accordingly. Not to mention getting Porro more involved in the final third is a good thing. Johnson destroyed Digne yesterday and I think Digne is a quality player (although maybe he's just beginning to lose a step).

Spurs need to take their medicine against City, and then really bunker down and regroup for the December run:

WHU
Newcastle
@Forest
Everton
@Brighton
Bournemouth

Spurs need to get 12+ points out of these games, otherwise I think they're digging a big hole to qualify for Europe.

Kliq · Nov 28, 2023

Bentancur out 2.5 months with an ankle injury. Brutal for the team and for Bentancur. Matty Cash is going to have a tough time next time he visits WHL.

Zososoxfan · Dec 4, 2023

What a huge result yesterday. A bit fortunate with Haaland missing a sitter and the ref blowing that play dead at the end of the match, but points are points.

As the resident GLC stan, I'm thrilled with his form ATM. The entire MF got overrun in the first half, but his goals are most welcome. Deki is amazing.

Thank goodness Romero comes back this week--I'm hoping he provides a big boost and Spurs come away with 3 points against WHU.

Kliq · Dec 4, 2023

Kulu's will to get the header was incredible to watch. He just wanted it to much more than Ake.

Zososoxfan · Dec 11, 2023

Really nice to see Spurs take their chances for a change and batter Newcastle. TBF, Newcastle is one of few clubs who can claim an injury crisis worse than Spurs, but they still needed to get the job done and Newcastle are still a good side. Nice tactical tweak starting Richy through the middle and Son on the left. Poor damn Trippier--Son made him look foolish all day down that flank. I owe an apology to Sarr, who I liked but didn't appreciate as much until now. He's very much a part of the starting 3 in the middle (at least until Ben10 and Madders return). The FBs are tremendous and we're lucky to have both.

Easy run of matches coming up--need to keep the foot on the gas and earn points for the tougher stretches beyond.

Jimy Hendrix · Dec 11, 2023

Zososoxfan said:
Really nice to see Spurs take their chances for a change and batter Newcastle. TBF, Newcastle is one of few clubs who can claim an injury crisis worse than Spurs, but they still needed to get the job done and Newcastle are still a good side. Nice tactical tweak starting Richy through the middle and Son on the left. Poor damn Trippier--Son made him look foolish all day down that flank. I owe an apology to Sarr, who I liked but didn't appreciate as much until now. He's very much a part of the starting 3 in the middle (at least until Ben10 and Madders return). The FBs are tremendous and we're lucky to have both.

Easy run of matches coming up--need to keep the foot on the gas and earn points for the tougher stretches beyond.

I'm coming around to the idea that Sarr is so good that I'd bench Bissouma for Bentancur before him, given their average standards of play. Spurs don't really have any other midfielders who just eat up ground like him and his decision making on the ball is, while usually more simple rather than creative, so sharp and fast and correct that it contributes significantly to the attack.

OCST · Dec 11, 2023

Trippier committed two terrible errors leading directly to Everton goals when Everton beat Newcastle 3-0 midweek. His body language was awful- after the first boner he pulled his shirt over his head (not cornholio style, but bottom of shirt over face) and just stood there. Since he couldn't handle Dwight McNeil and Jack Harrison I remember thinking that Son was going to rinse him. Newcastle are having the classic new-to-the-European-party struggles. Granted they're hurt, but maybe they weren't well conditioned enough to handle the extra schedule.

Glad to see Richy coming good.

singaporesoxfan · Dec 11, 2023

Zososoxfan said:
Really nice to see Spurs take their chances for a change and batter Newcastle. TBF, Newcastle is one of few clubs who can claim an injury crisis worse than Spurs, but they still needed to get the job done and Newcastle are still a good side. Nice tactical tweak starting Richy through the middle and Son on the left. Poor damn Trippier--Son made him look foolish all day down that flank. I owe an apology to Sarr, who I liked but didn't appreciate as much until now. He's very much a part of the starting 3 in the middle (at least until Ben10 and Madders return). The FBs are tremendous and we're lucky to have both.

Easy run of matches coming up--need to keep the foot on the gas and earn points for the tougher stretches beyond.

Forest-Everton-Brighton-Bournemouth is an easy run? Forest yes, but Everton and Bournemouth are #2 and #3 in form at the moment (last 6 games, but however you cut it they're both doing very well), and Brighton at the Amex is always tricky.

Kliq · Dec 11, 2023

This team had a fullback crisis not that long ago and are now playing entire backlines derived from FBs. It's quite the turnaround, and largely due to what Ange has gotten out of Udogie and Porro.

Zososoxfan · Dec 12, 2023

singaporesoxfan said:
Forest-Everton-Brighton-Bournemouth is an easy run? Forest yes, but Everton and Bournemouth are #2 and #3 in form at the moment (last 6 games, but however you cut it they're both doing very well), and Brighton at the Amex is always tricky.

I'd rather play Bournemouth (and to a lesser extent Everton) on good form, than MANC or Arsenal on poor form. This team needs to consistently beat teams in the bottom half of the table if they want to reach their goals of UEL or UCL. Any monthlong stretch avoiding the top 4 is a relatively easier stretch. This is still the EPL and nearly every club in the table is good (not you SHU), but yes, they need to take home a lot of points in this stretch.

Tangled Up In Red · Dec 12, 2023

Locking down Udogie long term is an excellent move.
Young man is already outstanding and could easily be a world-class left back (inverted midfielder?) for the next decade!

Zososoxfan · Dec 18, 2023

Bad performance, good result. This seems to be the consensus about the Forest match, and I generally agree. The biggest problem is that Bissouma's dumb challenge means we don't see him again until February, and Udogie is out for the Everton match on Saturday. Beyond that, Spurs didn't look capable of playing their game against a very physical Forest side.

I assume it's Emerson in for Udogie (wither Sess?!???), and Hoj in for Biss. I actually think GLC could do a job in the pivot, but he'll probably backup both Sarr and Deki in the other MF spots. With Everton unbeaten in December over 4 games, this one is gonna be tough. At least it's in London.

Jimy Hendrix · Dec 18, 2023

Bissouma started off the season incredibly, but has tailed off in performance to my eye in addition to continually taking himself out of the lineup for dumb reasons. Sarr had his own troubles in the Forest match, but I think I rate him over Bissouma right now.

Zososoxfan · Dec 18, 2023

Jimy Hendrix said:
Bissouma started off the season incredibly, but has tailed off in performance to my eye in addition to continually taking himself out of the lineup for dumb reasons. Sarr had his own troubles in the Forest match, but I think I rate him over Bissouma right now.

On current form, absolutely. And saying that after the first 10 matches is wild.

Zososoxfan · Dec 22, 2023

What's everyone's wish list for the January window? I've heard we've been heavily linked to Todibo from Nice, a CB that came up through Barca's system. I'd love him at WHL. Very technical and aggressive player, similar to Romero. He could back up the 2 CB spots (maybe Gentle Ben backing up LCB) and one of them could probably play FB in a pinch. From what I understand, Ange used his FBs at Celtic to help with buildup, but didn't have them crashing the box like Porro and Udogie do. So the CBs could probably do that to some degree. The other needs IMO are some decent MFs that fit our system--more for the 6 and the 8, rather than the 10, since Madders and Deki have shown to have that covered. There's been talk of a striker too, but I feel OK about riding out Son/Richy through the middle this season. Although the FWD rotation is pretty short right now with Son/Richy/Johnson/Deki the only starter-quality players.

OCST · Dec 22, 2023

Sean Dyche in his pre- Spurs-Everton press conference, on Ange:

https://x.com/EFCdaily_/status/1738194193942520138?s=20

"My type of guy, maybe we can crack a cold one open. I don’t know him but I like what I’ve heard. He said he doesn’t want to be known for how he plays, he wants to be known to win. I’m refreshed by that attitude for sure. That seems to be my type of guy."

a few pints with Dyche and Ange would be a memorable evening for sure.

scott bankheadcase · Dec 27, 2023

Romero out 4-5 weeks…

Any chance anyone here can play CB? Might be a better option than Dier.

Going to be a tough run here without both starting CBs.

Zososoxfan · Dec 27, 2023

scott bankheadcase said:
Romero out 4-5 weeks…

Any chance anyone here can play CB? Might be a better option than Dier.

Going to be a tough run here without both starting CBs.

FFS. The price for the CB(s) in January just went up $5M. They might NEED 2 now, even though they're probably planning on just 1.

Tangled Up In Red · Dec 27, 2023

Dane Scarlett recalled from loan.
Son going to miss 4 weeks with the DR Asian Cup, plus he wasn't seeing the field at Ipswich...

Kliq · Dec 27, 2023

This is the first I'm hearing of Son missing time due to the Asian Cup. This is all in addition to Bissouma/Sarr being out for Africa Cup of Nations.

Zososoxfan · Dec 28, 2023

What does everyone think of Connor Gallagher? He seems talented, but his best fit would probably be at the 8 for Ange, where we already have Ben10 and Sarr. If the price is $45M(GBP), does that justify the purchase? Keep in mind he counts towards homegrown requirement.

67YAZ · Dec 28, 2023

Zososoxfan said:
What does everyone think of Connor Gallagher? He seems talented, but his best fit would probably be at the 8 for Ange, where we already have Ben10 and Sarr. If the price is $45M(GBP), does that justify the purchase? Keep in mind he counts towards homegrown requirement.

I like Gallagher, but think he struggles more for Chelsea because his game is still a bit immature. He doesn’t quite yet balance the aggressive and the patient situationally, so he’s kind of a wild card for a side dominating the ball.

But in Ange’s Balls-to-the-wall system, Gallagher would be a stallion running free. That’s a great fit.

But no way he goes for £45m, not with the English Player Premium (tm) applied & Chelsea comping Gallagher to Rice.

Also, I’d love to listen in on a negotiation between Levy and Boehly.

Zososoxfan · Dec 28, 2023

67YAZ said:
I like Gallagher, but think he struggles more for Chelsea because his game is still a bit immature. He doesn’t quite yet balance the aggressive and the patient situationally, so he’s kind of a wild card for a side dominating the ball.

But in Ange’s Balls-to-the-wall system, Gallagher would be a stallion running free. That’s a great fit.

But no way he goes for £45m, not with the English Player Premium (tm) applied & Chelsea comping Gallagher to Rice.

Also, I’d love to listen in on a negotiation between Levy and Boehly.

FWIW, his TM value is listed as €42M, and the price I've heard bandied about is £45-50M (so €52-57M). I think any amount higher than that and Spurs lose interest. And it's worth remembering that the only reason he's on the block is because Chelsea have FFP hell coming down on them, so they're the motivated seller. Spurs want him and are being linked (presumably) because he represents good value.

Morgan's Magic Snowplow · Dec 28, 2023

I have never really rated Gallagher but he has been one of Chelsea’s best players this year and seems like a good system fit.

I think the homegrown player issue is a real consideration. Usually this is overblown but the only homegrown guys Spurs have as building blocks are Maddison, Sarr, and maybe Johnson (not clear to me whether Skipp or Sessegnon have long term futures in an Ange team). You can always find homegrown/academy players to fill out the fringes of a squad but going forward we’re going to see more big clubs needing 23-25 legitimate first team players since the number of matches just continues to climb with new European formats, new Club World Cup, etc. And I don’t see any talk about raising the number (17) that can be non-home grown.

The pool of homegrown players that are attainable, good enough, and system fits for Ange isn’t huge. Gallagher, maybe Guehi or Eze in the summer.

candylandriots · Dec 29, 2023

I’ll tell you this after watching a season of Gallagher every week. He runs for two players. He’s a machine and I’d choose him to come back to Palace more than any other player (or player to come for the first time). He’s worth every penny of that if you ask me.

Zososoxfan · Dec 29, 2023

candylandriots said:
I’ll tell you this after watching a season of Gallagher every week. He runs for two players. He’s a machine and I’d choose him to come back to Palace more than any other player (or player to come for the first time). He’s worth every penny of that if you ask me.

That's useful info. Do you think he has the chops to be press resistant and play the 6 for Spurs? Because he seems like a tremendous fit for the 8, even if Ben10 and Sarr are already there. I do think Ben10 might have a future as the 6, but I see his pressing and net crashing too valuable at the 8 to move him back.

candylandriots · Dec 29, 2023

Zososoxfan said:
That's useful info. Do you think he has the chops to be press resistant and play the 6 for Spurs? Because he seems like a tremendous fit for the 8, even if Ben10 and Sarr are already there. I do think Ben10 might have a future as the 6, but I see his pressing and net crashing too valuable at the 8 to move him back.

I am not sure that I’m the best person to answer that question, but I think his talents are better suited to the 8 than as a defensive midfielder. He could do it, but my non-expert opinion is that I’d sooner have him in more of an attacking role than a defensive one. But that could influenced be Palaces’s relative dearth of attacking options.

Dude LOVES Chelsea though, and I don’t see him leaving for anything less than a perfect situation for himself. I think he’s got his sights set on the Euros too, and not sure whether he would think a position switch would help or hurt him there.

SocrManiac · Dec 29, 2023

I don’t think he has the discipline to play the 6 effectively. He’d regularly blow his first yellow early and be stuck between a rock and a hard place for the rest of the match.

Jimy Hendrix · Dec 29, 2023

Zososoxfan said:
That's useful info. Do you think he has the chops to be press resistant and play the 6 for Spurs? Because he seems like a tremendous fit for the 8, even if Ben10 and Sarr are already there. I do think Ben10 might have a future as the 6, but I see his pressing and net crashing too valuable at the 8 to move him back.

He's generally a lot more of an 8/10 in his career so far, I dunno about him at the 6 (not that Spurs really play a strict 6 typically, more of a defensive minded 8).

The past and upcoming months of this Spurs season have truly reinforced for me the fact that it's not just a surgical "but where would this guy fit into a best 11?" game, true contenders just need talented depth that fits their system in all areas of the pitch to survive the unceasing onslaught of matches and resulting injuries, so I'd be fine with adding him to the stable in that position area if Ange thinks he's right for it.

the1andonly3003 · Dec 29, 2023

methinks Ange ball has to adopt the 3-1-6 Brighton switched between a diamond and a 3-1-6 formation and Spurs had no answer - The Athletic

Tangled Up In Red · Dec 31, 2023

^^^
Great move, Spurs. Young and full of more potential...
Just like Udogie, love getting these deals done early (career-wise)

Spurs 23/24: I'm Loving Big Ange Instead

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