Sox Sign OF Adam Duvall to 1 year deal

chrisfont9

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I think he meant there's not many long term COMMITMENTS. This is clearly a plan to keep the team competitive while the young'uns develop and start feeding the MLB club. You do that by NOT shelling out long term, expensive commitments to veterans, but to sign a bunch of them to very short contracts. Rinse and repeat until the kids are ready to roll.

I have no idea if the 2023 Red Sox will be any good. If things break right (which includes the team having good health) then they could be very good. If things break wrong they'll be a disaster. Most likely it will be something in the middle, and we will watch a reasonably competitive team during the 2023 season, while the prospects get another valuable year of development.
This sounds dead on to me.

As for Duvall, lots of RHH have a fun time at Fenway for a bit. Duvall has a history of competent defense, including 115 games in RF, so his offensive contribution might be less significant than plugging a hole out there. Has there been any chatter of where they expect him to play? I don't love the idea of moving Kiké off CF.
 

bosockboy

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This sounds dead on to me.

As for Duvall, lots of RHH have a fun time at Fenway for a bit. Duvall has a history of competent defense, including 115 games in RF, so his offensive contribution might be less significant than plugging a hole out there. Has there been any chatter of where they expect him to play? I don't love the idea of moving Kiké off CF.
Wouldn’t eliminate the idea that this frees up Verdugo to be traded.
 

InstaFace

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Perfectly good stop-gap. His SLG fell off the table in 2022 as opposed to 2021 (HR% last 4 years: 7.7%, 7.7%, 6.9%, 3.8%), but exit velocity, LD%, GB/FB ratio etc all look not significantly down, even up in some cases. I think he's as good a bet to rebound as anyone else at that age.

A contending team would hope for more out of a corner outfielder, but I'd rather take a one-year stop-gap than spend on the wrong guy and hamstring us for far longer.
 

Stan Papi Was Framed

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Don't give up hope on Story. Just because they refused to announce a timeline doesn't mean he's lost for the year. It just means we have no way of knowing for a bit.

I am beginning to like this lineup. If we have some reverse-of-2022 injury luck, things could be quite interesting.
yes--they were missing RH power. Duvall could provide that--perhaps even against RHP (in 2021 he had a reverse split and hit 32 HR v. righties). All speculative, of course--and depends on how things shake out, but lineups could look like this:

against RHP

Yoshida LF
Turner DH
Devers 3B
Duvall CF
Verdugo RF
Arroyo 2B
Casas 1B
Hernandez SS
McGuire C

against LHP

Yoshida LF
Turner DH
Devers 3B
Duvall CF (though he probably shouldn't be expected regularly in both lineups)
Arroyo 2B
Hernandez SS (could move him up and Yoshida down)
Refsnyder RF
Casas 1B
Alvaro C

If things go right, these are lineups that could be respectable--interesting, even.
 

radsoxfan

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Don't give up hope on Story. Just because they refused to announce a timeline doesn't mean he's lost for the year. It just means we have no way of knowing for a bit.

I am beginning to like this lineup. If we have some reverse-of-2022 injury luck, things could be quite interesting.
I’ve said this elsewhere already, but don’t give up on Story coming back at DH for a month or two on the early end of the projected recovery.

Will depend on how he’s doing post op and likely how the season is going for the team, but a pre ASB return at DH while he ramps up throwing on the side should definitely be on the table.
 

YTF

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Yeah, I don’t see that as likely, and I think your post illustrates why they probably aren’t acquiring another starting caliber INF. After all, Turner didn’t come here to be a bat off the bench and as it stands he’s looking like the best RH bat in the lineup. The Sox need him in the lineup. Barring injury, he’s the Sox’s regular DH.
Whether people like it or not, the Sox signing Duvall suggests they are prioritizing IF defense over OF defense, which means deploying their best defender (Kike) at SS rather than CF.
Kike is an elite defender wherever you play him, and now that Duvall has signed they have another competent CF on the roster - which will push Kike to SS. The issue, of course, is that neither Yoshida or Verdugo should be playing RF, but that’s probably something Bloom should have considered before he signed Yoshida and Turner. At this point, if they really want to upgrade the OF defense they probably should be considering packaging Verdugo in a trade for a competent right fielder.
Or maybe they have found a competent RF and keep their elite defender in CF.
 

geoflin

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Duvall hasn't played over 100 games in the last three and hasn't hit over .230 in the last four years. He hit .213 last year. There is a reason he was available and it's because he is an aging .213 hitter.
Nobody played 100 games in 2020. Duvall played in 57 of 60 games. He played in 146 games in 2021 and in 76 of 86 games in 2022 before he got injured running into a wall.
 

Yo La Tengo

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Or maybe they have found a competent RF and keep their elite defender in CF.
This came up in another thread, but, I think we are underestimating Verdugo. He was fine in Right Field prior to last season (when it appears he had an injury and/or lost some quickness due to bulking up). He is turning 27 this May, has shown the ability to play well in Boston, doesn't become a free agent until 2025, and his offensive stats were really good from June forward last year (.304/.356/.447 after the ASG).

Cora lit a fire under him at the end of the season to come in to camp trimmed down. According to some tweets posted earlier, it sounds like he got the message.
 

E5 Yaz

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Nobody played 100 games in 2020. Duvall played in 57 of 60 games. He played in 146 games in 2021 and in 76 of 86 games in 2022 before he got injured running into a wall.
Better late than never
 

YTF

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This came up in another thread, but, I think we are underestimating Verdugo. He was fine in Right Field prior to last season (when it appears he had an injury and/or lost some quickness due to bulking up). He is turning 27 this May, has shown the ability to play well in Boston, doesn't become a free agent until 2025, and his offensive stats were really good from June forward last year (.304/.356/.447 after the ASG).

Cora lit a fire under him at the end of the season to come in to camp trimmed down. According to some tweets posted earlier, it sounds like he got the message.
No need to eliminate Verdugo...4 man OF rotation.
 

JM3

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Absent a really good trade opportunity coming up, let's just squeeze Andrus in under the threshold on a 2-year deal & roll it out.
 

LoLsapien

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Seems like a Durran trade is inevitable. it looks to me like we have depth when it comes to guys who can hit the ball, but we seem, to me, to be lacking in defensive replacement types, especially in in the OF. A trade for Kim or a different strong MI type that frees up Kike for CF really would help tremendously.

Otherwise, is there any remaining dreck on the 25-man that could be cut/traded/optioned to make room for an OF defensive replacement type (like, I dunno, my old friend JBJ)? I don't have enough knowledge of our system to know who some of these guys are. David Hamilton, who is this guy? Does Abreu have a defensive reputation? Maybe we have relief depth in the minors and can cut Ort or put him on the options train?

I also wonder if we could try giving a guy like Valdez (speaking of a defensively limited slugger) or Dalbec time at 2nd base early in the season both to see how they handle the position, and also limit Arroyo's exposure to the elements. It would be nice to have him healthy for the back end of the season as a hedge against Story's recovery.
 

TonyPenaNeverJuiced

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Pham just signed with the Mets (1/6, +2m in incentives). Interesting timing - makes you wonder if Sox were in on both Pham and Duvall, and either they or the Mets struck first. I enjoyed Pham's time with us and would have been fine with him in a similar role to what Duvall will do, but I like the potential upside of Duvall quite a bit more, even when we're talking a couple of 34 year olds.
 

LoLsapien

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I'll try to be less lazy in the future. Seems that Abreu is not anticipated to be a CF defensive replacement type. David Hamilton likewise expected to be poor defensively in the IF. Ort does appear to have options remaining. Per SoxProspects.com and I'm apparently too stoopid to post embedded links.
 

JM3

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Seems like a Durran trade is inevitable.
Or he could just go to Worcester if no one values him.

it looks to me like we have depth when it comes to guys who can hit the ball, but we seem, to me, to be lacking in defensive replacement types, especially in in the OF.
Hernandez & Duvall are both above average OF defensively, & Verdugo was until last season.

A trade for Kim or a different strong MI type that frees up Kike for CF really would help tremendously.
Sure.

Otherwise, is there any remaining dreck on the 25-man that could be cut/traded/optioned to make room
Can always move off some borderline people, either in trades for flyer-types or just drop them. Brasier/Ort/Dalbec, etc.

for an OF defensive replacement type (like, I dunno, my old friend JBJ)?
We don't need an OF defensive replacement, & we definitely don't need JBJ on our bench. Greg Allen was signed as minor league depth if they need a d-1st CF type.

I don't have enough knowledge of our system to know who some of these guys are. David Hamilton, who is this guy?
Crazy fast MI/OF type acquired in the JBJ trade. Could be useful if he actually figured out to hit during his late season run.

Does Abreu have a defensive reputation?
No.

Maybe we have relief depth in the minors and can cut Ort or put him on the options train?
Some, but not a lot.

I also wonder if we could try giving a guy like Valdez (speaking of a defensively limited slugger)
Yes, I think he could be an interesting option there & wouldn't mind seeing him in a platoon with Arroyo.

or Dalbec time at 2nd base early in the season
Plz no.

both to see how they handle the position, and also limit Arroyo's exposure to the elements.
It's cold in the dugout, too.

It would be nice to have him healthy for the back end of the season as a hedge against Story's recovery.
I would think it would be more important to try to get the most out of him when we need him more so than when he would be a bench option.
 

kazuneko

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Or maybe they have found a competent RF and keep their elite defender in CF.
Unless they trade Verdugo how would that work? Are you suggesting they are going to bench Yoshida or Turner? We have two starters who are best utilized in LF and another that is slated to be a full-time DH. Unless the Sox trade Verdugo (for either a defensively competent SS or a defensively competent OF) I don’t see how the Duvall signing doesn’t mean Kike is the team’s SS.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Pham just signed with the Mets (1/6, +2m in incentives). Interesting timing - makes you wonder if Sox were in on both Pham and Duvall, and either they or the Mets struck first. I enjoyed Pham's time with us and would have been fine with him in a similar role to what Duvall will do, but I like the potential upside of Duvall quite a bit more, even when we're talking a couple of 34 year olds.
Timing seems coincidental to me. The Sox declined their option on Pham (1/6M) in November. Would be weird if they were in on him at this stage of the off-season for a similar contract. Duvall seems a bit more defensively flexible (Pham is a LF only guy, as evidenced by his time in Boston), which is something the Sox need more in their outfield.
 

JM3

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Timing seems coincidental to me. The Sox declined their option on Pham (1/6M) in November. Would be weird if they were in on him at this stage of the off-season for a similar contract. Duvall seems a bit more defensively flexible (Pham is a LF only guy, as evidenced by his time in Boston), which is something the Sox need more in their outfield.
It was a $12m mutual option they turned down:

The Red Sox won’t be exercising their end of Tommy Pham’s $12MM mutual option for 2023, Julian McWilliams of The Boston Globe reports. Pham gets a $1.5MM buyout on the option, and becomes a free agent.
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/11/red-sox-to-decline-tommy-phams-2023-mutual-option.html

The Red Sox wouldn't have been in on Pham, but it's definitely possible the Mets were in on both & pivoted to Pham after not doing Duvall.
 

Yo La Tengo

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No need to eliminate Verdugo...4 man OF rotation.
I expect Refsnyder to play quite a bit against left handed pitchers as well, so a 5 man OF rotation with Verdugo and Yoshida getting more at bats then Duvall (and Hernandez picking up at bats in the infield).

If Turner plays first base against some lefties, it opens up the outfield rotation quite a bit, with one of the five filling in at DH.
 

MtPleasant Paul

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I add my voice to this chorus of approval of the deal with these random thoughts.

Essentially Duvall replaces Tommy Pham who goes to the Mets whose offer Duvall rejected because he could expect more playing time with the Sox.

Obviously we need one more infield piece. I like Iglesias but Gammons says he has lost some range. Andrus surely wants a two year deal of at least 25 mill but it's getting late. Maybe the Sox get him for two years at 8 mill for 23, to leave some space under the cap, and 10 mill for 24.

The front office has done what it promised - adding maybe eight significant signings and keeping the payroll about the same as last year

I like the depth on this team especially on the pitching staff (as long as they don't trade Houck) and looking through rose-hued glasses I see a third place finish with Tampa Bay finally falling back and the Orioles temporarily regressing next year as young teams are wont to do.
 

YTF

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Unless they trade Verdugo how would that work? Are you suggesting they are going to bench Yoshida or Turner? We have two starters who are best utilized in LF and another that is slated to be a full-time DH. Unless the Sox trade Verdugo (for either a defensively competent SS or a defensively competent OF) I don’t see how the Duvall signing doesn’t mean Kike is the team’s SS.
LF Yoshida Verdugo CF Kike Duvall RF Duvall Verdugo Kike gets some time at MI along with Arroyo to fill which ever MI sot remains unfilled. RFsnyder is the Jack of all trades.
 

Niastri

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1. Extend the best of our 2 long-term options to a deal that is largely defendable given the other contracts given out
2. Perform a decent "soft reset" by using every available penny under the soft cap, avoiding future penalties.
3. Assemble a team, in reset, that could gun for the playoffs if the moons align correctly.
4. Lose zero strength from the farm in doing so. Lost a few fungible 40 man bubble types. A positive versus filling it with bullshit. A few moves still likely to be made here.

The top priority for Bloom at this point is building up the arm depth in the minors. The bats have been built nicely, the arms have almost nothing waiting in the wings.
Plus, virtually every player acquired this off-season could be a good trade asset at the deadline if we aren't in it. Lots of good this off-season with little to no damage to the long term plan of growing the team from the farm.
 

kazuneko

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LF Yoshida Verdugo CF Kike Duvall RF Duvall Verdugo Kike gets some time at MI along with Arroyo to fill which ever MI sot remains unfilled. RFsnyder is the Jack of all trades.
So Verdugo is now a part-time player? With the money they spent to acquire him I assume Yoshida will be a regular starter.
The Sox would be better off trading Verdugo for a SS or competent defensive OF. For now it seems like the plan is to put Kike at SS, with Verdugo stuck in RF. Who knows, maybe the Sox have some reason to believe that Verdugo’s declining defensive numbers last year were a statistical anomaly. If not, maybe he’s about to be traded..
 
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NJ_Sox_Fan

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He fills a need - RHH power bat. I’d doubt he’d hit 38 again, but I’d think 25-33 is realistic assuming no injury.
 

Ale Xander

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The sly like a fox move, if they could get value, would be to trade Yoshida, no?

What if you could save some of the $18mil, but fill your holes in MIF (and/or C/SP)

What about Yoshida to Seattle for Kelenic (4th OF), Dylan Moore (2B, arroyo to SS) and prospects?
Moore can play OF and left side of infield too IIRC. At least one of the two will a bench player for Seattle without a move after Pollock's arrival and Yoshida would also be advantageous to Sea off the field.

L Verdugo LF
R Turner DH
L Devers 3B
R Duvall RF
L Casas 1B
R Enrique CF
L McGuire C
R Moore 2B
R Arroyo SS
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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They aren’t trading a free agent they just signed. Seems clear that the Sox value Yoshida higher than anyone else…if not, that team would have signed him.
 

JM3

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So Verdugo is now a part-time player? With the money they spent to acquire him I assume Yoshida will be a regular starter.
The Sox would be better off trading Verdugo for a SS or competent defensive OF. For now it seems like the plan is to put Kike at SS, with Verdugo stuck in RF. Who knows, maybe the Sox have some reason to believe that Verdugo’s declining defensive numbers last year were a statistical anomaly. If not, maybe he’s about to be traded..
Defensive #s are so noisy. Verdugo is 26, though, so it doesn't seem like he should be getting bad defensively at that age. It's possible part of it stems from playing multiple positions over the last couple years & he will do well if he can settle in with a regular routine in RF, especially against all RH pitchers (118 career wRC+ against righties), & some lefties.

In his career, he has been a good LF, a pretty poor CF, & an almost average RF. But he's played about twice as many innings in left as in right, & almost as many innings in center as in right. So I'm content to just have him prepare to be a RF this off-season & see what happens. Unless we get a really good offer for him, but I think looking to move the guy who is almost certainly their best or 2nd best hitting OFer, who is a competent defensive player, is asking for trouble.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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They aren’t trading a free agent they just signed. Seems clear that the Sox value Yoshida higher than anyone else…if not, that team would have signed him.
Yeah, considering the reports were that the Sox were ahead of pretty much all of Yoshida's other pursuers, it would be hard to believe there's a team out there willing to trade assets for him right now. A year from now if he has a monster season? Sure. But not before he's even set foot on an MLB field.

Not to mention, it would be a pretty pretty shitty thing to do to sign a free agent and then turn around and immediately trade him away. Like, who would want to sign here in the future if before the ink is dry, they're trying to ship you out of town. Kinda defeats the idea of free agency.
 

chrisfont9

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Yeah, considering the reports were that the Sox were ahead of pretty much all of Yoshida's other pursuers, it would be hard to believe there's a team out there willing to trade assets for him right now. A year from now if he has a monster season? Sure. But not before he's even set foot on an MLB field.

Not to mention, it would be a pretty pretty shitty thing to do to sign a free agent and then turn around and immediately trade him away. Like, who would want to sign here in the future if before the ink is dry, they're trying to ship you out of town. Kinda defeats the idea of free agency.
Does the CBA even allow this?
 

BringBackMo

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This wording is pretty poor. Devers resigning is ENORMOUS long term progress. The absence of long term commitments to aging free agents is long term progress.

There are very few large payroll teams with more payroll flexibility to add a major player the next couple years.
Very well said.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Does the CBA even allow this?
I'm not sure. I want to say there's some sort of no-trade period after a free agent signing (like two months into the first season or something) but I might be conflating it with the old rule about not trading prospects within a year of drafting them.
 

JM3

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I read that you can't trade a player you sign as a free agent until 1 month into the season, but I read it on Reddit & haven't found the actual source & whether that's a real rule. Sounded legit, though. Apparently it doesn't apply to situations where you extend a player prior to free agency.
 

chrisfont9

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I read that you can't trade a player you sign as a free agent until 1 month into the season, but I read it on Reddit & haven't found the actual source & whether that's a real rule. Sounded legit, though. Apparently it doesn't apply to situations where you extend a player prior to free agency.
I looked around too and only found the NBA's rule (3+ months before you can trade). Anyway, as stated above it's not cool and not very likely for teams to get excited enough to sign a guy and then decide to trade him shortly thereafter. Maybe an explicit rule isn't necessary?
 

effectivelywild

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I read that you can't trade a player you sign as a free agent until 1 month into the season, but I read it on Reddit & haven't found the actual source & whether that's a real rule. Sounded legit, though. Apparently it doesn't apply to situations where you extend a player prior to free agency.
Yeah that reddit thread is actually not well thought-out, as evidenced by someone claiming that MLB teams need the commissioner's approval on all trades. But it turns out there is a rule that prevents "sign-and-trades"

I once had an idea about a way a team could "buy" prospects by signing a plethora of relievers and then trading them with heavily subsidized contracts for prospects. But when I did some research I found that players that were signed in the offseason can't be traded (without their approval) until June 15: This is from the previous CBO but I assume that it hasn't changed: (from article XX, 5a)
"(5) Miscellaneous (a) Any Club signing a contract with a Player under this Article XX(B) after the expiration of the Quiet Period described in subsection 2(b) above may not assign his contract until after the next June 15. However, notwithstanding the foregoing, such contract may be assigned for other Player contracts and/or cash consideration of $50,000 or less prior to the next June 16 if the Player gives written consent to such transaction. "
 

YTF

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So Verdugo is now a part-time player? With the money they spent to acquire him I assume Yoshida will be a regular starter.
The Sox would be better off trading Verdugo for a SS or competent defensive OF. For now it seems like the plan is to put Kike at SS, with Verdugo stuck in RF. Who knows, maybe the Sox have some reason to believe that Verdugo’s declining defensive numbers last year were a statistical anomaly. If not, maybe he’s about to be traded..
If Turner is the RH compliment at 1B and back up at 3rd Yoshida's likely to get some starts at DH and the occasional day off. I really don't think it's that hard to find playing time and ABs to satisfy four outfielders, given the positional flexibility and the likelyhood of Kike' playing games in the IF. Is/should the plan be to have Duvall as your primary CF? Rhetorical.
 

LogansDad

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Was he really even lousy out there? Statcast has him at a -1 OAA in RF, so.... basically league average, while getting bounced between LF and RF all season, and apparently with a broken toe.

I would almost be willing to chalk that -1 number up to being stuck next to the pylon that was Jarren Duran in CF for much of the season.
 

JM3

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Was he really even lousy out there? Statcast has him at a -1 OAA in RF, so.... basically league average, while getting bounced between LF and RF all season, and apparently with a broken toe.

I would almost be willing to chalk that -1 number up to being stuck next to the pylon that was Jarren Duran in CF for much of the season.
He was worse by DRS, but I'm also willing to see what happens.
 

joe dokes

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Are you really Sam Kennedy or did the Red Sox pay you to write this?

Duvall hasn't played over 100 games in the last three and hasn't hit over .230 in the last four years. He hit .213 last year. There is a reason he was available and it's because he is an aging .213 hitter.
If you're pointing out he hasn't played 100 because he sucks, so be it. But if it's a knock on his durability, it's off base. He played 146 in 2021. In Covid 2020, he played 57 of 60 Atl games. In 2019, he played 41 in Atlanta and 101 in AAA (142). Over 140 the years before that. So I dont think durability is a question. I think he's on the wrong side of the curve to be as good as Renfroe was. But a modest 105 OPS+ from a new OF would be an improvement over last year.
 

chawson

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So Verdugo is now a part-time player? With the money they spent to acquire him I assume Yoshida will be a regular starter.
The Sox would be better off trading Verdugo for a SS or competent defensive OF. For now it seems like the plan is to put Kike at SS, with Verdugo stuck in RF. Who knows, maybe the Sox have some reason to believe that Verdugo’s declining defensive numbers last year were a statistical anomaly. If not, maybe he’s about to be traded..
Agree with this take. They're going to give Yoshida as many PAs as he can handle for the next year and a half at least.

Kim is the rumor and I'd be happy to get him, but if the Twins are making Luis Arraez available for pitching as reported, I wonder if we can use Verdugo, Houck and Dalbec to get him. Maybe Verdugo goes elsewhere and his return is packaged with Houck and Dalbec for Arraez?

Arraez is not quite the middle-infield defender Kim is but he’d be a hell of an add to the lineup. Plug him in at 2B, make another small trade for Wendle and let him, Kiké and Arroyo handle shortstop until Story gets back.
 
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scottyno

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The sly like a fox move, if they could get value, would be to trade Yoshida, no?

What if you could save some of the $18mil, but fill your holes in MIF (and/or C/SP)

What about Yoshida to Seattle for Kelenic (4th OF), Dylan Moore (2B, arroyo to SS) and prospects?
Moore can play OF and left side of infield too IIRC. At least one of the two will a bench player for Seattle without a move after Pollock's arrival and Yoshida would also be advantageous to Sea off the field.
So sly that no free agent would ever sign a multi year deal with them again without a no trade clause
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Agree with this take. They're going to give Yoshida as many PAs as he can handle for the next year and a half at least.

Kim is the rumor and I'd be happy to get him, but if the Twins are making Luis Arraez available for pitching as reported, I wonder if we can use Verdugo, Houck and Dalbec to get him. Maybe Verdugo goes elsewhere and his return is packaged with Houck and Dalbec for Arraez?

Arraez is not quite the middle-infield defender Kim is but he’d be a hell of an add to the lineup. Plug him in at 2B, make another small trade for Wendle and let him, Kiké and Arroyo handle shortstop until Story gets back.
I think making Arraez available for Pablo Lopez is different than trading him for Houck, though.
 

chawson

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I think making Arraez available for Pablo Lopez is different than trading him for Houck, though.
How much different? Houck is under team control for five years. López, who recently missed several months with shoulder/rotator cuff issues, is under control for two.

I agree that López is likely worth more in a bubble, but if a team believes Houck is a starter (as I know you do), I’m not sure the gap is that wide.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Houck is coming off injury though, too. He hasn’t proven he can be a starter, never mind a front of the rotation starter in the bigs, Lopez has. I think there’s a big difference especially given that the Twins are largely in GFIN mode.