So....who is the new GM/head of baseball ops?

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Sandy Leon Trotsky

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It sort of makes sense more and more that this is Romero's job. They may bring in Breslow in some sort of GM-hybrid job too... it's the only situation here that also allows Cora to move into a FO role in a few years and not step on the toes of a new hire.
 

BaseballJones

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I'd assume among those interviewing they would ask. Among those not interviewing, maybe they ask former or current Sox FO folks, maybe they read the tea leaves.

I dunno, seeing the Betts thing might be enough.
They'd be D-U-M-B to make that determination based on the Betts trade. And reading the tea leaves sounds helpful to a certain degree, but it would also be crazy to not simply ASK them.

So the way I think of it is this: If you get the job, given the potential resources available, the intense fan base and history of the club, in a vacuum being the GM of a highly successful Boston Red Sox franchise has got to be about as good as it gets. Massively high profile, etc.

So saying no *without even sitting down to talk with them* seems like a potentially foolish, foolish decision.

But I don't know what any of these people are thinking. I'll stop talking about this now because I've beaten this horse to death. Just color me very confused about this.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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It sort of makes sense more and more that this is Romero's job. They may bring in Breslow in some sort of GM-hybrid job too... it's the only situation here that also allows Cora to move into a FO role in a few years and not step on the toes of a new hire.
My guess is that they're going give Romero the CoBO job, bring in Breslow as the GM and then kick Breslow up to CoBO job once Cora is ready to take the GM job. I'm not sure where that leaves Romero, but presumably this will happen in four years and that's when Sox FO personnel "graduate".
 

Sin Duda

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I think the new PoBO can say in the interview, "I need some assurance that (a) you will spend at a Top 5 level, (b) you will give me authority over firing/hiring beginning in 2025, and give m a 5-year, high $ contract; be careful about dropping me after less than 5 years because you will *never* be able to fill the position with someone competent." The promising candidates now have some leverage.
 

Fishercat

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They'd be D-U-M-B to make that determination based on the Betts trade. And reading the tea leaves sounds helpful to a certain degree, but it would also be crazy to not simply ASK them.

So the way I think of it is this: If you get the job, given the potential resources available, the intense fan base and history of the club, in a vacuum being the GM of a highly successful Boston Red Sox franchise has got to be about as good as it gets. Massively high profile, etc.

So saying no *without even sitting down to talk with them* seems like a potentially foolish, foolish decision.

But I don't know what any of these people are thinking. I'll stop talking about this now because I've beaten this horse to death. Just color me very confused about this.
Everything you're saying is logical... And all of these people saying no to the job or the interview are smart, tenured professionals. Which tells me they likely know things we don't about all of this from sources we don't have access to.
 

chrisfont9

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Isn't that what Cora's role is, though? I assume he has input into the players they bring in (that assumption may have been wrong during the Bloom era, but that was the way I assumed it worked). Do we need another of those?
Cora can only have so much input to the scouts and analytics folks while he's busy managing the team though, I'd think. There's something to be said for the GM and manager to share the same perspective. Then Cora doesn't have to explain stuff to the front office.
 

EvilEmpire

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Candidates who don't interview may not know what ownership is thinking with regard to budget and a ton of other operational constraints, but I think they can see enough to suspect that the Boston job(s) include a Game of Thronesy mix of insiders who have more trust from ownership than they'll get coming in as the new person.

Maybe established candidates who aren't desperate for their first big break just don't want to deal with that kind of bullshit.
 

Harry Hooper

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Right but if you were looking to be a MLB GM, wouldn't you at least want to TALK to Sox ownership and ask questions yourself?
Not necessarily, if you interview for 4-5 of these jobs and don't end up in one, people will start wondering what's wrong with that candidate.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I'm guessing these interviews are not a nice lunch where the candidate says "how involved with Alex be," or "Ben told me in a tweet that ownership wants to reset the tax every three year," or much of the surface stuff that we talk about in this thread because we don't have very much insight into what this process actually is. Or maybe some here do, but it strikes me that it's probably much more detailed than all this. I'm guessing some of these guys come in highly prepared -- you have a DH problem, and here's what I would do about it. Now, maybe in the context of that kind of discussion, they do pick up some of these bigger picture points. Like if they get the vibe that their DH solution requires a meeting with 18 people and Alex is in the room, maybe they decide from a process standpoint they don't like that. But this thread's discussion of supposed motives seems like very superficial stuff that people on a message board imagining what it's like might think, but which is probably not really that close to what happens in the real world. At least for some candidates.
 

JM3

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I learned today that Thad Levine played youth soccer with Paul DePodesta.

He didn't seem like a very exciting candidate, but who knows.
 

YTF

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With $80m+ to spend (assuming ownership is fine with only monetary penalties) & a highly-rated farm system, the Red Sox should easily be able to acquire 2 big ticket pitchers. Whether that will be enough, whether they will acquire the right guys, & what else will they do is all up in the air, but from a baseball perspective, they are not in a bad place - if ownership is actually willing to spend.
I think that there are a fair amount of us thinking similarly. Possibly one top tier FA arm and possibly one via trade. I have to say that I'm now a bit concerned that some players/agents might be taking interest in the number of high profile names that don't appear to be interested in running the team.
 

Whoop-La White

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A lot of times, an interview ends up being a fact-finding mission for the company. You get these talented baseball minds in front of your desk and information comes out in the interview that could be useful in a holistic way, a sense of where the league and baseball is heading, not necessarily in any applied way that can help your organization. That could also be why so many candidates are turning down interviews—they know that Henry & Werner already know what direction they want to go in and don’t want to waste their time, or give away information for free.
 

InsideTheParker

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Has anyone laid out anywhere for us the various duties of the GM vs. the PoBO? I could use something like that. Is it the same industry-wide or does it vary a lot from team to team?
 

YTF

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Has anyone laid out anywhere for us the various duties of the GM vs. the PoBO? I could use something like that. Is it the same industry-wide or does it vary a lot from team to team?
I think the job descriptions may vary a bit from team to team, but the structures are somewhat similar. Many of us old timers still remember a time when the top person was the GM. I'm guessing that in the past 15-20 years the complexity game from both the business and analytical sides has evolved to the point where traditional GM duties needed to be broken out into a couple of positions. PBO/CBO seems standard among most teams today as the head baseball person with GM being sort of an assistant PBO/CBO and multiple assistant GMs below that spot.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Has anyone laid out anywhere for us the various duties of the GM vs. the PoBO? I could use something like that. Is it the same industry-wide or does it vary a lot from team to team?
It varies from team to team. The genesis of the PoBO title (or Chief Baseball Officer or others like it) was more or less to give teams a way to hire another team's GM and call it a promotion rather than a lateral move. It's the person in charge of running the baseball side of the organization (drafting/signing/trading players, hiring the manager, etc). For teams with a PoBO or equivalent, the GM spot is the #2. For teams without, the GM is still #1 and assistant GMs are #2.

I don't think there's a functional difference between Executive VP/GM Theo Epstein (2003-2011) and President of Baseball Operations Dave Dombrowski (2015-2019). Different titles, same damn job.
 

lexrageorge

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They'd be D-U-M-B to make that determination based on the Betts trade. And reading the tea leaves sounds helpful to a certain degree, but it would also be crazy to not simply ASK them.

So the way I think of it is this: If you get the job, given the potential resources available, the intense fan base and history of the club, in a vacuum being the GM of a highly successful Boston Red Sox franchise has got to be about as good as it gets. Massively high profile, etc.

So saying no *without even sitting down to talk with them* seems like a potentially foolish, foolish decision.

But I don't know what any of these people are thinking. I'll stop talking about this now because I've beaten this horse to death. Just color me very confused about this.
I agree with you that most GM candidates would not shy away from taking a job with a team just because it is in the AL East or because the team needs pitching. GM's have willingly taken over much, much worse teams talent-wise than the current Red Sox. I mean, how do the Pirates or Royals get new GMs to come over?

But I think the real issue is that an incoming GM/Baseball Ops person would want is enough autonomy to make the difficult decisions to improve the team, and enough runway time-wise to do it. Bloom was given a directive to rebuild the team via the draft, a process that invariably takes 5-7 years before it pays dividends at the major league level. He was canned after 4, one of which was the absurd CoVid year which really should never have counted when assessing someone in Bloom's role.

It's a tiny industry, and people do talk all the time. Dombrowski, a highly accomplished and well respected baseball executive, was given a lot of autonomy until he was let go a season after winning a World Series. Bloom was also highly regarded and got fired after following the ownership's wishes to cut payroll. Theo's departure was acrimonious. So the organizational challenges are very real, and I can understand why a higher profile candidate may think that they would be set up to fail by the way the team is currently run.

In general, candidates get only so many bites at the apple before they are considered "damaged goods" if they do not win. I can see an aspiring candidate would think twice before using one of those bites on the current Red Sox organization.

Obviously, there is not much to be read into any one specific individual's decision to turn down an interview or offer. But the large number of candidates refusing to take an interview is a huge red flag that has almost nothing to do with the fact that the team's best starting pitcher is Bryan Bello or that Betts is in LA.
 

chawson

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Two, it seems like some of the Sox preferred candidates are also close to Chaim Bloom, who obviously didn't give a glowing recommendation of the job.

Three, it's possible that this job is perceived as not having the autonomy that it should.
So members of MLB front offices were so openly frustrated with Bloom and his indecisiveness that he was fired for it, but they're also close enough with him to decline an interview based on his recommendation?

So we're still blaming the media on this?

The Sox have sunk so low in this town, 90% of the media does not give a shit about the team any more. It's not the media.
This seems off. Look how much interest there's been in one-off reports about single individuals simply not interviewing for a Red Sox job.

This is how Boston's been for quite a while though right? And they regularly got well regarded FO and managerial talent. The main things that seem to have changed are the budget, competition, and ownership perception. I struggle to pin this current state of affairs on either of those given that this isn't a new phenomenon.
What's changed is that there's a voracious social media landscape now, and legacy media have shifted their focus from beat reporting to "soap opera coverage" (Rob Bradford's term) to keep up. Now, we've got that dink Carrabis and his wannabes cynically tweeting INTEREST KINGS every time someone (anyone) put a free agent's name in the same sentence as the team.

Perceived incompetence drives traffic.
 

Auger34

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So members of MLB front offices were so openly frustrated with Bloom and his indecisiveness that he was fired for it, but they're also close enough with him to decline an interview based on his recommendation?
There are 29 major league teams other than the Red Sox and a ton of front office employees. So...yes? Am I missing something? This seems to be phrased like a "gotcha" but the answer is so obvious I feel like I'm not connecting something

Two of the Sox preferred candidates, Sam Fuld and Brandon Gomes, are friends with Bloom. I would postulate, as have multiple members of the media, that they reached out to him for his opinion on the job. Based off of the fact that they both declined to even be interviewed, I would guess that Bloom didn't exactly give a ringing endorsement.

They are also both not in charge of their respective teams, so Bloom might not have even been dealing with them.
 

Fishercat

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So members of MLB front offices were so openly frustrated with Bloom and his indecisiveness that he was fired for it, but they're also close enough with him to decline an interview based on his recommendation?



...


What's changed is that there's a voracious social media landscape now, and legacy media have shifted their focus from beat reporting to "soap opera coverage" (Rob Bradford's term) to keep up. Now, we've got that dink Carrabis and his wannabes cynically tweeting INTEREST KINGS every time someone (anyone) put a free agent's name in the same sentence as the team.

Perceived incompetence drives traffic.
It may be helpful to read the first paragraph through the lens of the second paragraph. If you believe the second paragraph to be true, it may be worth considering how the first one actually was, the incentive of those reporting it, and how that may ultimately play out...
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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This seems off. Look how much interest there's been in one-off reports about single individuals simply not interviewing for a Red Sox job.
Those are the beat writers and I’m sure Shaughnessy will have a piece this weekend. I’m not sure if you’re in New England but this barely is the fourth story after the Pats (Mac, BB, this week’s game), the B’s (off to a 3-0 start) and the Celts (starting the season in a few days).

Maybe someone will make an aside to the search or throw some shade the Sox’ way but judging from talk radio, the nightly shows on Comcast, no one has really said anything about the Sox in weeks.

It’s kinda sad, TBH.
 

chawson

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There's at least one more interviewee that hasn't been reported.

As MassLive’s Sean McAdam reported Thursday, the Red Sox are still waiting to hear back on requests to speak with a couple of other candidates. Additionally, there are indications that another external candidate, whose identity has not been made public, has also already interviewed with the Red Sox about the role.

https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2023/10/kim-ng-declines-red-sox-interview-becoming-latest-to-pull-out-of-gm-search.html
 

RedOctober3829

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So members of MLB front offices were so openly frustrated with Bloom and his indecisiveness that he was fired for it, but they're also close enough with him to decline an interview based on his recommendation?
--MLB front offices weren't frustrated with Bloom....his bosses were. If you're James Click and Bloom is one of your best friends, are you really going to take the ownership side of things or your friend's?


This seems off. Look how much interest there's been in one-off reports about single individuals simply not interviewing for a Red Sox job.
--There's interest in these reports because it's another example of the Red Sox organization not being what it once was in league circles. The Red Sox are barely an afterthought in this town right now. The Patriots have taken center stage and now the Bruins/Celtics seasons are starting up with the Celtics being the title favorites. Nobody is talking about the Red Sox and rightly so.


What's changed is that there's a voracious social media landscape now, and legacy media have shifted their focus from beat reporting to "soap opera coverage" (Rob Bradford's term) to keep up. Now, we've got that dink Carrabis and his wannabes cynically tweeting INTEREST KINGS every time someone (anyone) put a free agent's name in the same sentence as the team.

Perceived incompetence drives traffic.

--Man you really have something against Jared Carrabis. How is it soap opera coverage to report what is actually going on? The GM of the Red Sox used to be a position where any sitting GM would jump at the chance to work here. Now, look at the list of people who have turned it down versus who have interviewed. Neal fricking Huntington who pulled off one of the worst trades in baseball history? Thad Levine? Craig Breslow is a fine name, but he has very, very little front office experience and no experience even being a #2. These aren't the names that should be associated with the Red Sox GM/POBO position.
 

chawson

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Those are the beat writers and I’m sure Shaughnessy will have a piece this weekend. I’m not sure if you’re in New England but this barely is the fourth story after the Pats (Mac, BB, this week’s game), the B’s (off to a 3-0 start) and the Celts (starting the season in a few days).

Maybe someone will make an aside to the search or throw some shade the Sox’ way but judging from talk radio, the nightly shows on Comcast, no one has really said anything about the Sox in weeks.

It’s kinda sad, TBH.
I am in New England (Maine) and don't listen to talk radio, don't follow football or hockey at all and follow basketball pretty sporadically these days.

In any case, if the topic is whether the Sox FO job is undesirable to external GMs because of the media it seems like the variable here is not how the Red Sox are perceived wrt other Boston sports, but other cities' baseball teams. The Red Sox have a long history of futility (or perceived futility) driving engagement, and I think that's been exacerbated and mutated over the last stretch as the media cycles have quickened.
 

moondog80

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There's at least one more interviewee that hasn't been reported.

As MassLive’s Sean McAdam reported Thursday, the Red Sox are still waiting to hear back on requests to speak with a couple of other candidates. Additionally, there are indications that another external candidate, whose identity has not been made public, has also already interviewed with the Red Sox about the role.

https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2023/10/kim-ng-declines-red-sox-interview-becoming-latest-to-pull-out-of-gm-search.html
A mystery candidate!
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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There are 29 major league teams other than the Red Sox and a ton of front office employees. So...yes? Am I missing something? This seems to be phrased like a "gotcha" but the answer is so obvious I feel like I'm not connecting something

Two of the Sox preferred candidates, Sam Fuld and Brandon Gomes, are friends with Bloom. I would postulate, as have multiple members of the media, that they reached out to him for his opinion on the job. Based off of the fact that they both declined to even be interviewed, I would guess that Bloom didn't exactly give a ringing endorsement.

They are also both not in charge of their respective teams, so Bloom might not have even been dealing with them.
I think the bolded is part of the problem with the coverage and conversations about this. We don't know that they were preferred. We know they were offered an interview because they declined it. That's all we really know. Any notion of "leading" or "preferred" candidates versus other (lesser?) candidates is all media (and fan) speculation.
 

YTF

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There's at least one more interviewee that hasn't been reported.

As MassLive’s Sean McAdam reported Thursday, the Red Sox are still waiting to hear back on requests to speak with a couple of other candidates. Additionally, there are indications that another external candidate, whose identity has not been made public, has also already interviewed with the Red Sox about the role.

https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2023/10/kim-ng-declines-red-sox-interview-becoming-latest-to-pull-out-of-gm-search.html
Ah...the equivalent of the trade deadline "mystery team".
 

Auger34

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I think the bolded is part of the problem with the coverage and conversations about this. We don't know that they were preferred. We know they were offered an interview because they declined it. That's all we really know. Any notion of "leading" or "preferred" candidates versus other (lesser?) candidates is all media (and fan) speculation.
Yes, we will never truly know the answer using your guidelines above. However, even if they were just "candidates", my point still stands. It's not mutually exclusive that some front offices could have been tired of Bloom's methods and that some "candidates" are friends of Bloom's and care about his recommendation.

I still have no idea what chawson's response was driving at.
 
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