Shams: Celtics "engaged in conversations" with 76ers for Ben Simmons

Cellar-Door

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I would say that Shams agent contacts are much stronger than the Celtics would be in being truthful. No team is going to admit to a reporter that they are in these type of discussions. I believe his sources way more than any standard Celtics denial.


Has Shams ever been played like this before? I don’t recall any history of that which is why I believe him.
I don't think Shams got played, I think that is a carefully crafted sentence, and the Celtics carefully crafted theirs.

Shams says... " Sources tell me Celtics and Sixers had discussions about Simmons", seperately he says "any trade would be based around Brown" those are 2 separate thoughts. As to the first... he's reported similar many times and had a leak from the other side saying "never happened" or something similar. The reason being, 1 GM calls it discussions if the name is mentioned, the other calls it not a discussion because there was no real discussion beyond a quick mention. Nobody got played, that's just how the game works.
 

jasail

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I am far from a Simmons guy but I can be a Simmons at the right price guy. If they could get it done for some combo of Smart and parts, then get it done. Those are two good players who could benefit from a change of scenery and the C's chip in some more to pay for the Simmons potential. The Sixers aren't going to make that trade though and Smart can't be moved for like two more months. Jaylen is not the right price. Even if you are of the opinion that Brad needs to split the Jays up (and I'm not there) Simmons isn't the return you'd want. Regardless, I hope the C's are in talks with the Sixers about Simmons, just as I hope they're in talks with every team out there about the potential acquisition of assets. Set aside that this team likely needs to shift some pieces around, trying to upgrade your roster is GM due diligence. All that said, this is either Shams pumping the tires for Morey to generate buzz or Shams pumping the tires for Klutch/Simmons to drive some interest and get him out of Philly before he starts slinging hoagies at WaWa to make ends meet.
 

BigMike

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Recent injury aside, which certainly seems like a very temporary thing, Brown seems poised to potentially become one of the real stars in the league. He's also signed to a (now) below market contract, in my opinion.

Simmons' value seems to be plummeting. That certainly doesn't mean he can't turn it around, but even trading them straight up seems like a stretch to me - but others on this board are much higher on Simmons than I am.
I'm not sure his value is plummeting. Perhaps the perception of his value is plummeting.

Like we "know" Indiana made an offer. Would they make the same offer today? Probably?

It seems like Sacramento and Minnesota have made offers, and I suspect both would make the same offer today.

Philly's wants in a deal have seemed to far outpace what other teams value Simmons at so far. At some point they will take the best offer they can get, and it will make Philly better than what they have right now, but it is not going to be the transformative package Philly has wanted
 

nighthob

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I don't agree if that facilitator doesn't have any gravity. Beal's addition works because he's a solid facilitator in the way Marcus is, but he can shoot and get to the rim.
Also to me... if you trade Jaylen Brown... well that opens up a whole lot of stars... some of whom are better than Simmons. Trading Jaylen for Simmons on the hope you can get Beal probably makes sense less than trading Jaylen for a PG who can also shoot.

Jaylen for Simmons makes little sense because it requires a second move. If you're willing to trade Jaylen, why not just go get a guy at PG who won't create offensive issues? Simmons is attractive as a trade asset in a non-Jaylen deal because his talent is so high, in a Jaylen deal... you're trading the best player and creating more holes that you need to fill.
Yeah, if you're trading Brown for a facilitator someone like SGA makes a lot more sense.
 

lars10

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From a basketball perspective a Brown for Simmons swap is pretty interesting. The biggest question isn't value or fit. Its whether Simmons could actually get a fresh start in a city like Boston. People had the knives out for the team - and all of its stars/coach/president - after a handful of games. Simmons working through his issues in real time as a Celtic - and with this team in particular - doesn't seem like an ideal situation.

It also won't help if Brown is the outgoing star given his popularity.
Why would you trade your (current.. because of Tatum's shooting issues as of late) best player for another team's player who can't shoot from outside of 16'. Simmon's value at this point is at an all time low and Brown's is at an almost all time high.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I think your “blow it up” stance has gone to your head and made you a little crazy here.

“Having discussions” could mean Brad asked what it would take, Morey says “Brown” Brad says no. After a couple of days, Brad asks if the price has gone down and Morey says it’s still brown. End of discussion.

So Shams wouldn’t be “played” since what he’s saying is the truth. But it’s also nothing serious and won’t go anywhere.

I feel like I’m shouting at clouds here but why in the world would you give up Brown for a guy who’s value has completely cratered? The whole thing makes 0 logical sense and reeks of Morey/klutch using Shams to help pump up some value for Ben
So you’re not disagreeing with me that the two teams dad discussions. I don’t understand what you’re debating about that.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Why would you trade your (current.. because of Tatum's shooting issues as of late) best player for another team's player who can't shoot from outside of 16'. Simmon's value at this point is at an all time low and Brown's is at an almost all time high.
I do not believe that Brown is the Cs best player (though again he is my favorite). Furthermore, we clearly have a difference of opinion about Simmons value which is fine. It appears that you would not consider a deal centered around these two players. I would depending on the other pieces involved and the other parts of the plan (another body incoming separately?).

Again I love Jaylen Brown and would be thrilled if he remains a C for life, winning multiple rings. However, I am also open to the idea that there are multiple paths to another banner and the easiest ones may involve surrounding Jayson Tatum with other pieces.
 

TripleOT

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Moving Brown for Simmons is foolish. That cautiously parsed story by Shams got the Simmons trade on a front burner again, so Klutch did its job.

Would any contender want an average of $37 million of salary space tied up for the next four years to a mentally fragile players who flames out in the playoffs? Even if Simmons could be had for a pu up platter of Smart, TL, Nesmith, and picks, it would be a gamble. (TL to a third team for a shooter, or draft assets).

I would probably take the gamble, figuring that playing with two star wings who can shoot and finish would be a fit where Simmons could build back some trade value even if that fit isn’t going to lead to a title. Philly is probably going to have to settle on a package that does not include an all star player, and Boston is wise to inquire.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Frankly, I'd be more concerned if the Celtics didn't ask about Simmons. These leaks don't really change the market - you'd need to see real traction to the rumors before that might happen. More to the point, Stevens et al should be checking on any player that might potentially be available as well as the ones who seem immovable.
Yeah, they should 100% be poking the tires on Simmons. And Philly should 100% be asking for Jaylen Brown if they are really willing to just let Simmons sit out 4 years. I wouldn't trade Brown for Simmons because I think Jaylen has far more trade value. On the court, I think they are of similar value though.

I'd love to buy on him low but I don't see the 76ers accepting a Marcus Smart and Robert Williams package. Even if they do end up selling for 50 cents to the dollar.
 

sezwho

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Yeah, they should 100% be poking the tires on Simmons. And Philly should 100% be asking for Jaylen Brown if they are really willing to just let Simmons sit out 4 years. I wouldn't trade Brown for Simmons because I think Jaylen has far more trade value. On the court, I think they are of similar value though.

I'd love to buy on him low but I don't see the 76ers accepting a Marcus Smart and Robert Williams package. Even if they do end up selling for 50 cents to the dollar.
Ultimately, I wonder if Morey is simply holding out for a similarly distressed asset from a team in a similar situation.

Kyrie comes to mind, but the NBA periodically spawns ’Star X wants/needs out now!’ dramedies for the other side to have the opportunity to reciprocate.

Call it the franchise’s Black Swan event.
 

nighthob

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Ultimately, I wonder if Morey is simply holding out for a similarly distressed asset from a team in a similar situation.

Kyrie comes to mind, but the NBA periodically spawns ’Star X wants/needs out now!’ dramedies for the other side to have the opportunity to reciprocate.

Call it the franchise’s Black Swan event.
Or James Harden. It would be hilarious if that deal happened this season.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Ultimately, I wonder if Morey is simply holding out for a similarly distressed asset from a team in a similar situation.

Kyrie comes to mind, but the NBA periodically spawns ’Star X wants/needs out now!’ dramedies for the other side to have the opportunity to reciprocate.

Call it the franchise’s Black Swan event.
Yeah, the other 2 obvious ones are Beal and Dame but the Wiz are off to a good start and the Blazers are in a fine spot atm.

I could see KAT maybe demanding a trade but that doesn't help the 76ers.

NO sucks but players like Ingram don't really demand trades. I guess Kyrie wanting to be traded from LeBron is somewhat similar but most of the type the guy requesting a trade is Embiid or Lebron, not the 2nd fiddle.

Shaq/Kobe is another.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Karalis (on the Locked On C's pod) gave the most plausible explanaton of Celtics involvement in Simmons talks that I have yet heard.

Not "let's do Brown for Simmons," though I have no doubt Philly asked for Brown. More like: "Hey Daryl Morey, give us a call if you need a third team to make your deal happen, we have some salaries we could move and some TPEs."
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Yeah, the other 2 obvious ones are Beal and Dame but the Wiz are off to a good start and the Blazers are in a fine spot atm.
Yeah, Morey has to be watching 'Zards - best record in the EC 'Zards - games and muttering to himself Shining style about how they picked this year to start winning games.

Couldn't happen to a nicer franchise.
 

benhogan

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Right about now Atlanta, Sacramento, Indiana, Minnesota and San Antonio lob calls to Morey to check-in on Ben Simmons. In about a month they will start upping their offers

While losing 3 straight, the Sixers seem to be surviving with Maxey at PG
 

Cellar-Door

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Given the Lakers don't seem to play defense, would Morey consider a Westbrook for Simmons deal?
If the Lakers want to get off Westbrook it's going to cost them an asset, they aren't getting anything positive back for him.
 

Devizier

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If the Lakers want to get off Westbrook it's going to cost them an asset, they aren't getting anything positive back for him.
Yeah, not a chance. The Sixers would have to include Danny Green just to match salaries, and I’m not sure they’d take Westbrook over Green straight up at this point.
 

nighthob

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Yeah, not a chance. The Sixers would have to include Danny Green just to match salaries, and I’m not sure they’d take Westbrook over Green straight up at this point.
Technically not true as I’m pretty sure that Westbrook’s trade kicker expired as part of the deal that sent him to Houston. Simmons has one which means that he counts for $38 million (roughly) on the outgoing end. The problem is that the only prospect LA has makes 9.5 large, meaning that he can’t really be included.
 

PedroKsBambino

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You’d have to staple significant assets to Westbrook and Lakers don't have them.

Whatever Simmons’ value is today, it’s positive and plenty of teams can beat an offer centered on a bottom-five ish contract
 

HomeRunBaker

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94WIP's Howard Eskin said on radio FWIW that Simmons is going broke and may be back playing so that he can pay his bills. https://www.audacy.com/94wip/sports/76-ers/report-ben-simmons-is-broke-may-be-forced-to-return

I don't know anything about Erskin's reputatio or if he is correct that Simmons still isn't getting any of his salary but I thought I'd see what people thought.
The Sixers really need him back if there is any chance to make it work. Their defensive drop off this year without Simmons has been pretty astronomic.
 

Cellar-Door

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94WIP's Howard Eskin said on radio FWIW that Simmons is going broke and may be back playing so that he can pay his bills. https://www.audacy.com/94wip/sports/76-ers/report-ben-simmons-is-broke-may-be-forced-to-return

I don't know anything about Erskin's reputatio or if he is correct that Simmons still isn't getting any of his salary but I thought I'd see what people thought.
Eskin has no reliability, he's very much a hack.
It's possible Simmons is broke, but I really doubt it. He got paid his $8.25M installment in October and he hasn't come close to that in fines since.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Eskin has no reliability, he's very much a hack.
It's possible Simmons is broke, but I really doubt it. He got paid his $8.25M installment in October and he hasn't come close to that in fines since.
Thanks for this.

I didn't know that PHI paid the October 1 installment. Last I heard (early Nov) that PHI put the Oct 1 payment in escrow and never heard that PHI had released it.
 

Cellar-Door

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Thanks for this.

I didn't know that PHI paid the October 1 installment. Last I heard (early Nov) that PHI put the Oct 1 payment in escrow and never heard that PHI had released it.
Yeah the Woj article that cites is this one:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32559520/philadelphia-76ers-resume-fining-ben-simmons-sources-say

Buried in it is that they released the escrow funds, and now were back to putting money in escrow as they started fining him again. Levick either missed it or wasn't clear that the previous escrow (minus fines I'm sure) was released.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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ElUno20

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So we're heading into December. What is the actual plan here? For him to sit out until the trade deadline? This seems like seriously odd.
 

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Oh yes, I've come to enjoy it as well. The posturing and flailing of Morey plus Klutch plus BS plus the general Philly schadenfreude are properly magical.
The whole Simmons saga was a topic of conversation this Thanksgiving in the Jimbo house. Possible trades, what's the next play, does he get vaccinated? The generation of 20-somethings is more interested in Ben than Kyrie's shananigans at the moment. Must drive the latter nuts.
 

HomeRunBaker

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The whole Simmons saga was a topic of conversation this Thanksgiving in the Jimbo house. Possible trades, what's the next play, does he get vaccinated? The generation of 20-somethings is more interested in Ben than Kyrie's shananigans at the moment. Must drive the latter nuts.
Bucket List: Spend one Thanksgiving with The Dandy’s!!

Watching Morey and Klutch play this out in the press is actually kind of fun.
Klutch and Rich Paul have to be loving all the attention and free marketing they are receiving. The only thing preventing them from owning the entire league is not growing their own people fast enough. It will be interesting to see what happens in 5-6 years when LeBron retires and what role he has (aside from owner lol).
 

Jimbodandy

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Bucket List: Spend one Thanksgiving with The Dandy’s!!


Klutch and Rich Paul have to be loving all the attention and free marketing they are receiving. The only thing preventing them from owning the entire league is not growing their own people fast enough. It will be interesting to see what happens in 5-6 years when LeBron retires and what role he has (aside from owner lol).
It's great attention and free marketing. Only possible downside is if he ends up traded to NBA Siberia like Minnesota or Sacramento. Even then, they probably have multiple avenues of spin available.
 

HomeRunBaker

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It's great attention and free marketing. Only possible downside is if he ends up traded to NBA Siberia like Minnesota or Sacramento. Even then, they probably have multiple avenues of spin available.
Klutch recently opened an office in Atlanta and snatched Trae Young and Cam Reddish from their prior representation. Simmons for John Collins/pieces once he’s eligible to be traded in January? Gives the Hawks a lock down wing defender while allowing Trae to be freed up to play more off the ball offensively. Who says no?
 

Jimbodandy

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Klutch recently opened an office in Atlanta and snatched Trae Young and Cam Reddish from their prior representation. Simmons for John Collins/pieces once he’s eligible to be traded in January? Gives the Hawks a lock down wing defender while allowing Trae to be freed up to play more off the ball offensively. Who says no?
Hawks have mad shooting, and Simmons covers some defense shortcomings. Not sure that you want to play him with Capela though.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Klutch recently opened an office in Atlanta and snatched Trae Young and Cam Reddish from their prior representation. Simmons for John Collins/pieces once he’s eligible to be traded in January? Gives the Hawks a lock down wing defender while allowing Trae to be freed up to play more off the ball offensively. Who says no?
Why does PHI want John Collins? With Embiid, Drummond, Niang, Harris, and even Paul Reed, seems like the don't really need what Collins offers. What they really need is someone who can play wing defense and create. Someone kind of like . . . ., well never mind.
 

PedroKsBambino

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If you made it, say, Gallo and Hunter for Simmons does that make more sense for either? Works cap-wise, though less sure asset-wise. Atlanta is a great team to make a consolidation trade----with Simmons and Jaylen Brown as the most likely targets. Presumably one can debate which team throws in a pick/other asset.

I imagine Morey is going to see if he can wait until the deadline at least, and what develops---does Dame ask out? Do Celtics implode and make Brown available? KAT wouldn't seem a fit, though he's another guy who could potentially push his way out (no signs of that, though).
 

HomeRunBaker

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If you made it, say, Gallo and Hunter for Simmons does that make more sense for either? Works cap-wise, though less sure asset-wise. Atlanta is a great team to make a consolidation trade----with Simmons and Jaylen Brown as the most likely targets. Presumably one can debate which team throws in a pick/other asset.

I imagine Morey is going to see if he can wait until the deadline at least, and what develops---does Dame ask out? Do Celtics implode and make Brown available? KAT wouldn't seem a fit, though he's another guy who could potentially push his way out (no signs of that, though).
If that is the return Morey would accept a deal would have been done this past summer. He’s not going to settle for a non-star type player (2nd tier) and is apparently going to wait out until one becomes available which they always do.
 

PedroKsBambino

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If that is the return Morey would accept a deal would have been done this past summer. He’s not going to settle for a non-star type player (2nd tier) and is apparently going to wait out until one becomes available which they always do.
I was playing out options, but yeah---I think Morey is going to wait until he has to do a deal or gets a star and that isn't yet the case. He surely has ownership buy-in to that plan. I do think conceivable the buy-in is limited to the deadline this year, but most likely not.

If I owned the team I would be asking how he thinks about sacrificing a prime Embiid year vs adding a couple solid pieces this year, but Morey himself has been so clear his entire FO career it is all about the stars I don't think he'll be persuaded by anything less.
 

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If I owned the team I would be asking how he thinks about sacrificing a prime Embiid year vs adding a couple solid pieces this year, but Morey himself has been so clear his entire FO career it is all about the stars I don't think he'll be persuaded by anything less.
A couple of solid pieces probably sacrifices a year of Embiid too. Maybe longer if it complicates future moves.

If a return like that doesn't put Philly over the top, might as well wait. A deal like that will still be there when all other avenues are exhausted.