Shams: Celtics "engaged in conversations" with 76ers for Ben Simmons

RedOctober3829

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The Boston Celtics have engaged in conversations with the 76ers revolving around Simmons and expressed interest in the 6-foot-11 guard, sources tell The Athletic. Talks have been fluid with no traction as of yet, those sources say. Any potential Simmons deal with the Celtics would have to include All-Star forward Jaylen Brown, an ascending talent who is in the midst of another career season, averaging 25.6 points, 6.1 rebounds and 2.5 assists.

The Celtics are off to a 4-6 start, winning two recent games against Miami and Orlando before losing to Dallas Saturday night. President of basketball operations Brad Stevens admitted to NBC Sports Boston that the organization is “going to find out” if it has the right group of players.

https://theathletic.com/2940604/2021/11/08/ben-simmons-trade-talk-where-things-stand-with-the-sixers-plus-more-nba-notes-shams-charanias-inside-pass/
 

Cellar-Door

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Yeah makes sense to check in, makes sense to not do it if Jaylen is the price.

I doubt it happens, but a Smart +++ for Simmons makes some sense for both sides. In the end though PHI will send him off for a bigger name, even if the production isn't any better
 

CreightonGubanich

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I would be beyond shocked if Brad Stevens traded Jaylen Brown for Ben Simmons. Like, I'd be questioning everything I thought was true in the world. It's not happening.

I'm not necessarily anti-Simmons; if it's for Smart+, sign me up. But a Tatum-Simmons pairing alone is not a title contending team and never will be.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Blow it up!!!

Would it be considered tampering if Stevens reached out to Beal for approval before making this type?

Where can I sign up for a Tatum/Beal/Simmons 2022 Opening Night lineup?
 

88 MVP

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Im sure the Sixers are asking for Jaylen. Im equally confident Brad would say “no,” or at least counter by asking for Simmons+ in return for Jaylen.

If Simmons could be had for Smart and additional assets, I would do it. It just feels like the core of this roster needs a shakeup. Plus, a roster with point-Simmons could put together some really tough defensive lineups and lineups that could really get out and run.
 

Van Everyman

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PBS planting stories to get Jaylen back on the court with his tight hammy?

In a vacuum, I can kind of see what the thinking would be replacing Jaylen with Simmons. While I'm less bearish on this Celtics team than a lot of people on this board, it's clear they are working through a lot of things -- not least of which is how to get Tatum and Brown flowing together. I think it can work and they're already showing some progress, but there are gonna be fits and starts getting there.

By swapping Jaylen for Simmons, Tatum becomes the dominant scorer with no overlap in skill sets with his second star. Simmons facilitates Tatum's scoring and feeds the other guys when Tatum is bottled up. And he is an elite defender and rebounder. The question, as always with Simmons right now, is chemistry.

As much as I've killed Simmons on this board, it's ... interesting.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Feels to me like the Celtics approach is "we'd love Simmons, and every asset other than Jaylen and Jayson is on the table to get there" and the Sixers will have to decide whether they can do better (which I suspect they can).

One caveat: if Jaylen is, behind the scenes, just not helpful I can imagine him for Simmons ++ as a way out for both teams. But that feels pretty tough to execute to me, in part because if you are willing to deal Jaylen I'm not sure that's the best offer you can get.

I agree with others this feels like a Sixers plant, too.
 

JCizzle

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There doesn't seem to be anything close to a match between these teams. The two Celtics assets are more valuable than Simmons. The rest of the roster is basically worthless at this point for varying reasons - Smart's offensive start, RL's & AN's lack of development, projected late lottery pick position (at best), etc.

A Jaylen swap makes the already good Sixers REALLY good.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Also, what is the trade restriction for Smart and Richardson, essentially until January?

Schroder is useful to Philly this year and tradeable in a few days, but only part of any deal for sure.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Oh hell no. I'm planning to buy my second Celtics jersey ever after Bird. It's going to have the name "Brown" on the back. Do not ruin my plans, Brad.
 

Kliq

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Bill Simmons pretty casually said before the season started that the Sixers asked the Celtics about a Simmons trade and that they asked for Tatum.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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From a basketball perspective a Brown for Simmons swap is pretty interesting. The biggest question isn't value or fit. Its whether Simmons could actually get a fresh start in a city like Boston. People had the knives out for the team - and all of its stars/coach/president - after a handful of games. Simmons working through his issues in real time as a Celtic - and with this team in particular - doesn't seem like an ideal situation.

It also won't help if Brown is the outgoing star given his popularity.
 

Cellar-Door

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Also, what is the trade restriction for Smart and Richardson, essentially until January?

Schroder is useful to Philly this year and tradeable in a few days, but only part of any deal for sure.
Smart January 25, RIchardson no restriction.
 

bankshot1

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This sounds like Morey stirring some embers hoping for a fire to move his damaged asset who wants out.

I hope Jaylen is way off the table on this one.

I'm intrigued with the idea of Simmons PGing for the Js, and we kicked it around before, but the price has to be at a discount. I can't see paying a premium to Phily for a PG that won't shoot 3s.

We currently got enough guys who can't shoot 3s
 

Cellar-Door

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This sounds like Morey stirring some embers hoping for a fire to move his damaged asset who wants out.

I hope Jaylen is way off the table on this one.

I'm intrigued with the idea of Simmons PGing for the Js, and we kicked it around before, but the price has to be at a discount. I can't see paying a premium to Phily for a PG that won't shoot 3s.

We currently got enough guys who can't shoot 3s
yeah, this is clearly a case of.. the Celtics called, Moret asked for Brown, was laughed off, but leaked it to try and show that Simmons still is worth more than D-Lo and scraps.
In reality the trade that makes sense is probably TL, Smart and a 1st? maybe throw another 1st or Nesmith in there. Celtics probably do that, PHI likely doesn't, even if D-Lo and scraps is probably a worse return, it's easier to sell.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Im sure the Sixers are asking for Jaylen. Im equally confident Brad would say “no,” or at least counter by asking for Simmons+ in return for Jaylen.

If Simmons could be had for Smart and additional assets, I would do it. It just feels like the core of this roster needs a shakeup. Plus, a roster with point-Simmons could put together some really tough defensive lineups and lineups that could really get out and run.
Our problem with trades is that we don’t really have much in the way of “additional assets” but the Sixers do have an intriguing group of role players who we’d surely be interested in obtaining in a multi-player swap. Curry, Danny Green or Korkmaz solve a major issue this team has had for awhile with their shooting while Niang can correct Ainge’s mistake of drafting the wrong Iowa State forward 5-6 years ago.

We don’t have anywhere near enough to add to a Smart deal however the Sixers do have some shooters who will loose minutes/looks with Jaylen there so Philly would be more included to include them. Gimme some Seth or Korkmaz with Simmons, on Beal’s approval, and let’s hang a banner!!
 

bankshot1

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yeah, this is clearly a case of.. the Celtics called, Moret asked for Brown, was laughed off, but leaked it to try and show that Simmons still is worth more than D-Lo and scraps.
In reality the trade that makes sense is probably TL, Smart and a 1st? maybe throw another 1st or Nesmith in there. Celtics probably do that, PHI likely doesn't, even if D-Lo and scraps is probably a worse return, it's easier to sell.
I was going to post my ouch point is Smart + (Romeo or ) and two 1s. If I can keep TL (I like him a lot) I would like to, but Simmons may make him a little redundant in the paint.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Our problem with trades is that we don’t really have much in the way of “additional assets” but the Sixers do have an intriguing group of role players who we’d surely be interested in obtaining in a multi-player swap. Curry, Danny Green or Korkmaz solve a major issue this team has had for awhile with their shooting while Niang can correct Ainge’s mistake of drafting the wrong Iowa State forward 5-6 years ago.

We don’t have anywhere near enough to add to a Smart deal however the Sixers do have some shooters who will loose minutes/looks with Jaylen there so Philly would be more included to include them. Gimme some Seth or Korkmaz with Simmons and let’s hang a banner!!
Simmons+Curry for Brown+ is intriguing. It pains me to say that as Jaylen is probably my favorite current Celtics player.
 

Ale Xander

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Would deal everyone except Jaylen, Jayson, and RWIII for him, in spite of my making fun of his shooting. He’d fit in well with Jayson.
 

RedOctober3829

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Our problem with trades is that we don’t really have much in the way of “additional assets” but the Sixers do have an intriguing group of role players who we’d surely be interested in obtaining in a multi-player swap. Curry, Danny Green or Korkmaz solve a major issue this team has had for awhile with their shooting while Niang can correct Ainge’s mistake of drafting the wrong Iowa State forward 5-6 years ago.

We don’t have anywhere near enough to add to a Smart deal however the Sixers do have some shooters who will loose minutes/looks with Jaylen there so Philly would be more included to include them. Gimme some Seth or Korkmaz with Simmons and let’s hang a banner!!
Smart/Richardson/Hernangomez would work money wise but Smart can't be traded until Jan. 20. What about putting Horford and his contract into the deal and Philly spinning him off to another team for more assets?
 

HomeRunBaker

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Simmons+Curry for Brown+ is intriguing. It pains me to say that as Jaylen is probably my favorite current Celtics player.
I’ve been a Jaylen guy since pre-draft but it’s pretty clear to see that he doesn’t fit well with Tatum. Brad to Jayson: “Hey uh, I wonder how your buddy would feel about playing with a left handed PG. Hmmm…….let me know by 4pm today.”
 

HomeRunBaker

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Smart/Richardson/Hernangomez would work money wise but Smart can't be traded until Jan. 20. What about putting Horford and his contract into the deal and Philly spinning him off to another team for more assets?
Morey would have Simmons chained in his basement for 4 years before doing that deal.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Smart/Richardson/Hernangomez would work money wise but Smart can't be traded until Jan. 20. What about putting Horford and his contract into the deal and Philly spinning him off to another team for more assets?
That's a pretty terrible deal asset-wise for Philly and while Smart is an interesting fit for them I really can't believe this is the most they have on the table for Simmons.

The three-team notion makes sense: the problem between Bos and Phi is that the 'asset value' and 'basketball fit' elements really don't sync up well at all.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I’ve been a Jaylen guy since pre-draft but it’s pretty clear to see that he doesn’t fit well with Tatum. Brad to Jayson: “Hey uh, I wonder how your buddy would feel about playing with a left handed PG. Hmmm…….let me know by 4pm today.”
Again, I think the issue isn't fit or coming up with the right exchange. Do you really think Boston can stomach Simmons working through his issues? He isn't fixed. His value going forward is entirely predicated on him finding a situation where he can use his strengths while hopefully addressing or at least minimizing his flaws. Boston strikes me as a pretty tough place to play normally but with Simmons baggage it seems almost impossible. Maybe I am wrong and the fans embrace him however after the past few weeks, I strongly doubt it.
 

ifmanis5

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Do not want unless he now wants to shoot threes. I like Ben more than most and he would defer to the Jays offensively, but even then, is this the salve that soothes the 'soft' team?
 

HomeRunBaker

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That's a pretty terrible deal asset-wise for Philly and while Smart is an interesting fit for them I really can't believe this is the most they have on the table for Simmons.

The three-team notion makes sense: the problem between Bos and Phi is that the 'asset value' and 'basketball fit' elements really don't sync up well at all.
Philly has so much more to add to a deal for Jaylen than we have to add to a deal with Smart. Korkmaz and Curry are valuable pieces and still growing.
 

benhogan

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Blow it up!!!

Would it be considered tampering if Stevens reached out to Beal for approval before making this type?

Where can I sign up for a Tatum/Beal/Simmons 2022 Opening Night lineup?
76ers would need to send more than Simmons for Brown. but if those ancillary pieces + Smart/TL/young guys meant Beal then you ride with that to start 2022

Especially if PBS doesn't clear out the draft stock, which he'll need to add other vets during 2022-23 midseason

Tatum/Hanlen would have to orchestrate the Beal end.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Do not want unless he now wants to shoot threes. I like Ben more than most and he would defer to the Jays offensively, but even then, is this the salve that soothes the 'soft' team?
Celtics fans:

* Screams and throws things at TV when Smart launches a 3-pointer.

* Also Celtic fan, refusing to trade for Simmons bc he won’t shoot three’s.
 

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Hard for me to even think about a Jaylen trade but it just kind of feels inevitable at some point, idk. Certainly Beal rather than Simmons makes more sense as the other side of a Jaylen deal.

In the right situation I think Simmons could pretty quickly reestablish himself. Paired with Embiid was never going to be that situation. He needs to be more or less the point-center and rim-runner, and switching monster on defense with Tatum. That's a potentially dominant pairing of guys who can both cover 1 through 5, you'd basically just need 3 other guys who won't throw up on themselves defensively and you can put together an effective D (assuming both are fully engaged, of course). The three point stuff is kind of a red herring because the spacing with Embiid would always be an issue. His role here would be more like if TL had point guard skills and could do more than dunk.
 

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Hard for me to even think about a Jaylen trade but it just kind of feels inevitable at some point, idk. Certainly Beal rather than Simmons makes more sense as the other side of a Jaylen deal.

In the right situation I think Simmons could pretty quickly reestablish himself. Paired with Embiid was never going to be that situation. He needs to be more or less the point-center and rim-runner.
To me, the issue with Simmons is much more his competitive drive, or lack thereof, than his actual basketball skills.
 

Eddie Jurak

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A deal built around Smart+Richardson would work from a financial perspective.

Which teams would be interested in adding Horford? The value is obvious, but fitting him into a good team's cap situation seems hard, and why would a bad team want him? Is there a middling team that would see a reason to add him?

I'm a Smart-stan, but I think Smart needs to go if Simmons came in. Can't have long stretches of 2 and 3 non-shooters on the floor. That deal can't happen for 2 months though.

Note: Al Horford, Josh Richardson, and Ime Udoka were all together with Simmons in Philly for one year.
 

Van Everyman

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I do think Ime is making a conscious effort to mix things up a bit this year, making Tatum add a facilitator component to his game (which is not the same as making him a passer). But I also don't think it was a coincidence that Tatum had his best game with Brown on the shelf. The good news is, given the restrictions on when they can move guys, I think they have some time this season to work on things and see how their play evolves.
 

Cellar-Door

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Jaylen for Simmons and multiple pieces would make a lot more sense if Marcus Smart wasn't on the team, but there may be no player in the NBA who is a worse fit with Simmons than Smart.

If I could move Smart and pieces for a scorer who can shoot.. sure. But also, if I could move Smart for a scorer who could shoot, I might just do that and roll with Jaylen/Tatum/3rd.
 

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Jaylen for Simmons and multiple pieces would make a lot more sense if Marcus Smart wasn't on the team, but there may be no player in the NBA who is a worse fit with Simmons than Smart.

If I could move Smart and pieces for a scorer who can shoot.. sure. But also, if I could move Smart for a scorer who could shoot, I might just do that and roll with Jaylen/Tatum/3rd.
Not sure the Sixers would need (or want) both Thybulle and Smart, however imposing that duo might be defensively.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Jaylen for Simmons and multiple pieces would make a lot more sense if Marcus Smart wasn't on the team, but there may be no player in the NBA who is a worse fit with Simmons than Smart.

If I could move Smart and pieces for a scorer who can shoot.. sure. But also, if I could move Smart for a scorer who could shoot, I might just do that and roll with Jaylen/Tatum/3rd.
Agreed. If the Wizards were failing right now they would be much more open to a Beal for Smart ++ knowing they would be losing him or include some of the Philly pieces to DC.
 

ifmanis5

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The last thing this team needs is another high priced guy who can't shoot. No way I'm giving up the Jays at all, but other pieces and I'd at least take a few meetings and certainly would be all ears for a 3-way.
 

Cellar-Door

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Agreed. If the Wizards were failing right now they would be much more open to a Beal for Smart ++ knowing they would be losing him or include some of the Philly pieces to DC.
Honestly though... if I could get Beal for Smart+++ I'd just play Beal at PG and keep Jaylen.
 

benhogan

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Which teams would be interested in adding Horford? The value is obvious, but fitting him into a good team's cap situation seems hard, and why would a bad team want him? Is there a middling team that would see a reason to add him?

Note: Al Horford, Josh Richardson, and Ime Udoka were all together with Simmons in Philly for one year.
A contender, a win-now team. Horford looks great and his style of play is probably good for a few more seasons

Golden State Warriors come to mind.

Agree, trust Ime knows what he's getting into with Ben Simmons after spending a season with him

This isn't a knee jerk reaction after the foul on Saturday, but Smart getting dealt seems really possible this year (JRich can probably replace MS at a cheaper price)
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Agreed. If the Wizards were failing right now they would be much more open to a Beal for Smart ++ knowing they would be losing him or include some of the Philly pieces to DC.
Smart++ is the piece of your scenario that doesn't seem realistic. There are a bunch of contending teams who offer Beal an attractive landing spot and have better assets than Boston has ex-Brown. Now if Stevens can acquire picks maybe you can cobble something together but it seems unlikely.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Smart++ is the piece of your scenario that doesn't seem realistic. There are a bunch of contending teams who offer Beal an attractive landing spot and have better assets than Boston has ex-Brown.
I think only way that kind of deal happens is if Beal tells them privately he's committed to playing with Tatum and willing to say so publicly and thus would tank the trade market Anthony Davis-style.

I see little reason to believe that is how he feels or would take that path even if he did
 

benhogan

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If they aren't in trade talks, Brad Stevens should come out strong saying "there is NO WAY they'd offer what the 76ers are asking".

Creating any smoke here only helps the 76ers if Morey is close with the Wolves, Kings, etc
 

Light-Tower-Power

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I think I’m with HRB on team blow it up. As much as I like Brown, I don’t think his game complements Tatum’s very well. It’s not a coincidence that they rarely both have great games. I’m not sold on Simmons but the thought of a revitalized Simmons and hopefully Beal alongside Tatum is intriguing.
 

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Brown only makes sense to me if there is behind the scenes drama and Boston wants to get in front of it before he demands a trade or something. Getting Simmons plus another good piece or two from Philly might make sense then.

I don't think Philly is interested in Smart.