One thing I never really thought of until now but Schroder's 1st 3 seasons were with Al Horford. He was "tutored" by Al much like Jaylen and Jayson.Someone of consequence seems to like this.
Same here. This angle makes me much more interested in how this is going to go.One thing I never really thought of until now but Schroder's 1st 3 seasons were with Al Horford. He was "tutored" by Al much like Jaylen and Jayson.
I'm not getting why this has become a one or the other conversation.That's my take as well, and why I think Schroder off the bench and Smart starting makes sense.
If JRich reverts back to his pre-Covid form with Miami we aren’t going to have many more backcourt minutes available so I could see Pritchard’s role limited somewhat as well. This would be a very good thing to happen if we get the old JRich.Pritchard will neither start nor long significant minutes at the point. Of all the Celtic guards in the rotation mix, Pritchard stands out as the most defensively limited.
It's been reported that Udoka is going to put the ball in Smart's hands more this season (see tweet below). Sounds like to me that if Smart doesn't have the title "Point Guard," he's going to be a de facto PG. Schroder will be handling the ball in the second unit. They could have used his offense last year (which is what they were trying to get from Teague but never got it).I'm not getting why this has become a one or the other conversation.
The way the roster is set up now, they're playing two different positions.
Schroder and Pritchard will play the bulk of the minutes as the point guard.
Smart is now in the wing mix as the third starter there, unless people want Richardson to start over him?(assuming they're not gonna try the double big again)
Yes, I'm aware he said that.It's been reported that Udoka is going to put the ball in Smart's hands more this season (see tweet below). Sounds like to me that if Smart doesn't have the title "Point Guard," he's going to be a de facto PG. Schroder will be handling the ball in the second unit. They could have used his offense last year (which is what they were trying to get from Teague but never got it).
View: https://twitter.com/ASherrodblakely/status/1425249071321653248?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Ime Udoka also said we'll likely see the ball in Marcus Smart's hands more this season. "He's kind of asked for that. He'll be a great facilitator as well."
He almost certainly will play significant minutes because they're going to need his shooting with Smart/Schroder/Richardson being the other guards in the rotation.Pritchard will neither start nor long significant minutes at the point. Of all the Celtic guards in the rotation mix, Pritchard stands out as the most defensively limited.
People are still talking about how Anthony Davis’s dad feels about the years-old IT situation, so yeah pretty much.What would be the headline if this went the other way?
Celtics rescind offer to Black player: Lebron Lakers welcome Shroeder after he's run out of Boston
I think Schroder and PP will be fine against second units. I mean if memory serves, didn't the Cs often play two guards smaller (and worse defenders) than those two last year?Yes, I'm aware he said that.
But, both Pritchard and Schroder are going to be in the rotation. Do people think playing them together is a great idea? I don't.
And if they don't play together, they're going to be the point guards to be separated as much as possible. Or call them little guards if you prefer.
I just don't see how Schroder/Smart are playing the same slot.
It makes the most sense to me that Smart is starting at the 2, or bigger guard, with Schroder(or Pritchard). Not instead of Schroder(or Pritchard).
If I were taking that Udoka quote as gospel, I'd think the starting backcourt would be Smart/Pritchard, since Pritchard would be much more useful off the ball if Smart has the ball in his hands.
I hope that's what happens, but my guess is Schroder will start with Smart to keep him happy.
My thoughts on Pritchard:He almost certainly will play significant minutes because they're going to need his shooting with Smart/Schroder/Richardson being the other guards in the rotation.
Pritchard averaged 19 minutes per game in the regular season last year as a rookie. That's already significant minutes. I'd guess he gets bumped up into the low 20s range when the team is fairly healthy, with Schroder taking the rest.
They sure did. Though they had three little guys in the rotation most of the year. Impossible to avoid having two little guys together in that case.I think Schroder and PP will be fine against second units. I mean if memory serves, didn't the Cs often play two guards smaller (and worse defenders) than those two last year?
Unless AN really lights it up during training camp, I think opening night starting lineup will be JT, JB, MS, RIchardson, and TL. Schroder will be first in off the bench and his job will be to create for the second unit. PP, AN, and Al will be regular substitutions; everyone else will be match-up based.
Most of the metrics I've seen have DS as a slight overall negative on D. A bit disappointing because it feels like he should be better, confusingly not much better Kemba. I think Kemba's instincts make up for some of his shortcomings, probably the opposite for Schroder.Saw this article, I guess Schroder has a 6-8 wingspan, didn't realize that.
warming up to a defender that can guard small PGs and aggressively pick up on-ball defense over the halfcourt line
https://hardwoodhoudini.com/2021/08/11/boston-celtics-dennis-schroder-provides/3/
Schroder is great at pickpocketing careless bigs or stripping loose ball-handlers, leveraging his 6-8 wingspan to overwhelm opposing creators.
Schroder has a very high motor, often picking up opposing guards in a full-court press, and possesses high caliber screen navigation to keep up with screen-heavy guards. He’s positionally aware and is very good at denying the ball, often leading to steals that ignite transition plays.
The only weakness in Schroder’s defensive game is his size and his underwhelming help instincts.
At 6-3, 172 pounds, he can quickly be taken advantage of by bigger creators in the post or when going downhill.
He’s been on some bad teams though. Defensive metrics don’t treat those players kindly.Most of the metrics I've seen have DS as a slight overall negative on D. A bit disappointing because it feels like he should be better, confusingly not much better Kemba. I think Kemba's instincts make up for some of his shortcomings, probably the opposite for Schroder.
Certainly seems like he should have more potential than Kemba on that side of the ball, maybe Ime can get more out of him.
They were some lousy teams, but the defense was pretty damn good on most of those teamsHe’s been on some bad teams though. Defensive metrics don’t treat those players kindly.
I was surprised to see that Schroder only played on one real bad team.....not surprisingly the one that was 21st in DefR. Aside from that he’s been at the forefront of some real good defenses. This is a good thing.They were some lousy teams, but the defense was pretty damn good on most of those teams
Here are the b-ref defensive ratings for the teams he was on
ATL - 14th, 6th, 2nd, 4th, 21st
OKC - 4th, 7th
LAL - 1st
He's a fine defender who does what you need him to do at the point of attack. This team will wrack up plenty of steals and runouts because Tatum, Smart, and TL can all above-average to great at getting deflections at their position. I'd like to see J-Rich go back to being the guy who got ~120 steals in 2017-2018. Hopefully with Nesmith nipping at his heels, he'll feel the pressure to do so.They were some lousy teams, but the defense was pretty damn good on most of those teams
Here are the b-ref defensive ratings for the teams he was on
ATL - 14th, 6th, 2nd, 4th, 21st
OKC - 4th, 7th
LAL - 1st
I agree, and this is exactly where recent Celtics teams have struggled.If you take a ten thousand foot view of Schroder's career, he is the very definition of league average whether its offense or defense. If you want to get granular beyond that, you certainly can make a case for him being better or worse but he is in Boston precisely because his of his dependable level of production. That is also why he didn't find the market he expected for his services.
I think we'll be happier with DS defense over Kemba's D.Most of the metrics I've seen have DS as a slight overall negative on D. A bit disappointing because it feels like he should be better, confusingly not much better Kemba. I think Kemba's instincts make up for some of his shortcomings, probably the opposite for Schroder.
Certainly seems like he should have more potential than Kemba on that side of the ball, maybe Ime can get more out of him.
A big problem was Kemba getting exploited in the half court defense, which necessitated help, which put the defense in rotation, which resulted in open threes, which gave lesser teams life. Good teams overwhelm lesser teams from the opening tip. This year’s team should be a lot better defensively with Kemba gone, and with German Rondo, JRich,, AL, and Dunn, if he gets to play.I think we'll be happier with DS defense over Kemba's D.
I'm sure there is a DARKO/CARMELO/etc graph out there that says Kemba was average defensively last season, which is utter rubbish. I've watched enough of DS and Kemba over the last few seasons to comfortably expect Schroder to be a much better team defender. I'd also expect Tatum, Smart, Brown's defensive metrics to look better this season without having to cover for Kemba.
IMO Kemba drifts around and tries to pick up charges/loose balls, which probably juices adv def metrics. He's undisciplined, adds no on-ball defensive pressure, and is incapable of challenging shots on the perimeter. His decaying knee/age makes him worse than his days in Charlotte when he was considered simply a bad defender.
At any point, a disciplined (playoff) offense can single him out and easily get the defense into rotation.
I expect Thibs to tear out whatever strands he has left on that bulbous noggin' with a backcourt of Kemba/Fournier.
#kembarant
Yes, that's it. It was glaring at the end of the season against a Heat team that was playing for a seed. They attacked Kemba relentlessly, got the C's D out of position and absolutely buried the C's by half.A big problem was Kemba getting exploited in the half court defense, which necessitated help, which put the defense in rotation, which resulted in open threes, which gave lesser teams life. Good teams overwhelm lesser teams from the opening tip. This year’s team should be a lot better defensively with Kemba gone, and with German Rondo, JRich,, AL, and Dunn, if he gets to play.
Just to keep piling on Kemba in the Schroder thread, his ball dominance combined with lack of availability made it impossible to develop a rhythm and absolutely buried them offensively as well. Nice guy, bye bye..The Jays absurd leaps in offensive production made Kemba a very costly extravagance. Being the 3rd option on offense (and a pedestrian 3pt shooter/distributor at that) couldn't make up for his terrible defense.
that tooJust to keep piling on Kemba in the Schroder thread, his ball dominance combined with lack of availability made it impossible to develop a rhythm and absolutely buried them offensively as well. Nice guy, bye bye.
Thanks, I got it buried there and couldn't get it back out when I tried to edit it. Weird.
This is probably true, but I would think that a player signing a 1-year pillow contract to rebuild market value would be focused more on 'fit' than on top dollar. If the Lakers had somehow offered him $10 million on the condition that he would be 13th man on the roster, I think he'd have still taken the Celtics offer.Schroder is a great, cheap signing for the Celtics, but that article sure is puff. One, he "chose" Boston because so far as I can tell he had exactly 0 competing offers. If someone had come in $1 above that offer, does anyone think he would have still "chosen" Boston? There was no choice: it was the only offer on the table.
I don;t know. Just a quick look at the numbers suggests he was playing differently (albeit not better).And, two, living in L.A. I see a ton of Lakers and the idea he "had to repress his game" because he was playing with Davis and LeBron is also fatuous. First because he simply didn't do that -- his problem was he didn't adjust his game but still played as a shoot first guy despite shooting a mediocre 43% and having superior players around him. And, if the problem was playing with 2 famously unselfish stars, well he sure collapsed as soon as they weren't on the floor with him, so I really really don't think that argument works. With or without the stars, he was mediocre or worse.
A funky season for the Lakers: Lebron and Davis missed a lot of time, leaving Schroder as one of the only competent offensive creators and playmakers for big chunks of the season. It makes sense that Schroder would struggle as not only lead guard but lead offensive shot-creator. He's a secondary playmaker and will really play up against second units.in re the former, I think both are true. He didn't have that choice....once the Lakers moved on, there wasn't another option. I don't doubt you're right that the smart decision if he did have an option with a bit more money would have been to choose the better fit in the hopes of getting much bigger money next year.
in re the latter, you're right -- that's what one gets for posting based on eye test and not double checking vs the numbers. Just a funky, up and down season overall. He's in the perfect position coming off the position to re-build his value.