Red Sox Trade Deadline 2022

BoSoxGent

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Looking for Bullpen help,
RH relief has to be the priority, although it’s less of one of Whitlock goes back to the pen.

As far as targets…Dillon Tate, Alex Lange, Will Vest, Michael Fullmer, Scott Barlow, Paul Sewald, Penn Murfee, Diego Castillo, Anthony Bass, Wil Crowe, Dave Robertson, Alexis Diaz, and Daniel Bard are among those I think seem possible.

1b seems like an area of need, as well as RH OF off the bench.

Feels like Dalbec, Downs, Seabold, Groome, are among the players on the 40-man that could be included in deals.
 

BoSoxGent

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I agree BP is a priority, even if Whitlock, Houck and Schriber are “Finishers”, I’d like to add Dave Robertson’s experience at an affordable price.

Trey Mancini is a great addition, but he’s out of our (Prospect) price range I would suspect.

I don’t think the O’s want any of our surplus Starters, and any position prospect in our top 20 is too great a cost (except Jeter Downs or Jay Groome.

What would Robertson cost, considering our Playoff experience this year is primarily for experience purposes (IMHO) ??

Just testing the waters here for the player cost …. ‍♂
 

chawson

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I agree BP is a priority, even if Whitlock, Houck and Schriber are “Finishers”, I’d like to add Dave Robertson’s experience at an affordable price.

Trey Mancini is a great addition, but he’s out of our (Prospect) price range I would suspect.

I don’t think the O’s want any of our surplus Starters, and any position prospect in our top 20 is too great a cost (except Jeter Downs or Jay Groome.

What would Robertson cost, considering our Playoff experience this year is primarily for experience purposes (IMHO) ??

Just testing the waters here for the player cost …. ‍♂
The Orioles don’t really trade their good players within the division. I think the only exception has been Zach Britton to the Yankees, but that was for a good haul of prospects. Mancini is beloved in Baltimore and with the universal DH and more buyers because of the expanded playoffs, I don’t see how we’d be their preferred trading partner.
 

BoSoxGent

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The Orioles don’t really trade their good players within the division. I think the only exception has been Zach Britton to the Yankees, but that was for a good haul of prospects. Mancini is beloved in Baltimore and with the universal DH and more buyers because of the expanded playoffs, I don’t see how we’d be their preferred trading partner.
Agreed on Mancini …

I was more interested in the cost of an OLD (experienced) Dave Robertson to bolster the Pen and solidify Game Finishers
 

BoSoxGent

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I can live with finishers of Whitlock, Houck, Schriber, ROBERTSON (trade) and Thomas/Hill/Strahm as situational Lefties for this Year.

What would Dave Robertson cost in prospects?
 

Ganthem

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I am wondering if there is a need for both an outfielder and first baseman. I think Franchy has showed enough that he should have a full time job for the rest of the season. In order to keep Franchy in the lineup everyday that might limit the Sox to one or the other.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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I am wondering if there is a need for both an outfielder and first baseman. I think Franchy has showed enough that he should have a full time job for the rest of the season. In order to keep Franchy in the lineup everyday that might limit the Sox to one or the other.
Since we don't really know the status of Kiké, and he wasn't exactly... ummmm.... good when he was playing, I think they actually need another either 1B or corner OF bat. Maybe Kyle Schwarber will be available again?
But seriously... .the best OF configuration presently- and likely going forward- is Verdugo in LF, Duran in CF and Franchy in RF with JBJ as the late inning defensive sub. Or.. .keep playing Franchy at 1B and bring in a corner OF bat with some better defense. They do need help. CANNOT count on Dalbec at all this season.
If they don't bring in help then Arroyo needs to get more time at 1B with Franchy in the field.
 

Ganthem

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Since we don't really know the status of Kiké, and he wasn't exactly... ummmm.... good when he was playing, I think they actually need another either 1B or corner OF bat. Maybe Kyle Schwarber will be available again?
But seriously... .the best OF configuration presently- and likely going forward- is Verdugo in LF, Duran in CF and Franchy in RF with JBJ as the late inning defensive sub. Or.. .keep playing Franchy at 1B and bring in a corner OF bat with some better defense. They do need help. CANNOT count on Dalbec at all this season.
If they don't bring in help then Arroyo needs to get more time at 1B with Franchy in the field.
Kind of what I am thinking. Play Franchy in Right and trade for a first baseman. Have Kike become a super utility player when he comes back. I feel they have given him enough rope and they need to buckle down and put their both team forward. It is hard to see how that includes KIke on an everyday basis based on how he had hit previously.
 

jackno

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Gotta ask... What do you think the return would be for a Sale trade? It has to help with money for Devers and Xander. Kind of tired of his act.
 

nvalvo

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Gotta ask... What do you think the return would be for a Sale trade? It has to help with money for Devers and Xander. Kind of tired of his act.
FWIW, the trade sim has him with a mildly positive (+5) trade value again. That represents a real recovery for a number that was well underwater pretty recently.
 

moondog80

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FWIW, the trade sim has him with a mildly positive (+5) trade value again. That represents a real recovery for a number that was well underwater pretty recently.
30 mil this year and 27.5 mil in 2023 and 2024. I’d be shocked of some team took 100% of that contract.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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30 mil this year and 27.5 mil in 2023 and 2024. I’d be shocked of some team took 100% of that contract.
Nobody is trading anything for Sale until he can pitch- I’d guess the rest of the season and playoffs. Even then, yeah… Sox would need to pick up at least 1/2 his salary
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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I don’t pay much attention to other teams other than the MFYs and am pretty unfamiliar with who would be a reasonable target but it seems quite clear that the Sox need to get a corner outfielder. JBJ isn’t cutting it. Franchy I think is fine to take over full time at 1B.
It’s more important than a bullpen arm as the injured cavalry is about to show up just over yonder hill.
Any discussion here would be appreciated on available OF’ers and who we’d have to part with to get him. Schwarber was an excellent target last season and relatively painless in not losing any major depth. If Bloom could pull off another similar deal, despite the recent play, I think they’ll be in fine form to make a deep playoff run.
 

RobertS975

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Kyle Schwarber was as inexpensive as he was last year because he was almost a month away from being able to play.
 

grimshaw

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Kyle Schwarber was as inexpensive as he was last year because he was almost a month away from being able to play.
Exactly. If the Sox went for Rizzo, for example, the price would have been a whole lot more than Aldo Ramirez (who unfortunately has yet to pitch this year because of an elbow injury).
 

sean1562

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The Athletic recently had an article listing all the players that might be available for a trade

https://theathletic.com/3367735/2022/06/17/mlb-trade-deadline-2022-targets/

The only OF on that list that are appealing and obtainable for the Red Sox are

Andrew Benintendi
Mitch Haniger
Trey Mancini

I don't think we are going to shell out for Bryan Reynolds or Ian Happ. A deal for Bryan Reynolds probably has to include Bello, Ceddanne, and more. Maybe Bello, Yorke, and someone like Blaze Jordan would get him. I do not know much about his defensive profile. Could he play RF with Duran in CF?

Moving Franchy RF and looking for a platoon partner for Dalbec might be a better option. Then again, looking at Bobby's platoon splits, he still kinda sucks against LHP too so maybe someone that can let us just demote the guy.

1B that fit this profile

Josh Bell
Seth Brown(a career .769 OPS against RHP but also kind of just sucks)
Garrett Cooper signed through next season .834 OPS
CJ Cron, signed through next season, probably out of our prospect price range
 

YTF

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I don’t pay much attention to other teams other than the MFYs and am pretty unfamiliar with who would be a reasonable target but it seems quite clear that the Sox need to get a corner outfielder. JBJ isn’t cutting it. Franchy I think is fine to take over full time at 1B.
It’s more important than a bullpen arm as the injured cavalry is about to show up just over yonder hill.
Any discussion here would be appreciated on available OF’ers and who we’d have to part with to get him. Schwarber was an excellent target last season and relatively painless in not losing any major depth. If Bloom could pull off another similar deal, despite the recent play, I think they’ll be in fine form to make a deep playoff run.
Good God no!!!. I am thrilled with the improvements that we've seen from Franchy concerning his approach at the plate and his play at first base has improved, but not to the point that he should been manning the position full time. Recently he's looked quite bad out there.
 

grimshaw

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Josh Bell is a no-brainer this year for no other reason than to declutter the 40 man and some potential Rule 5 guys. He shouldn't cost an arm and a leg and is arguably the biggest upgrade on the market.

Cost controlled guys for positions of need are ok with me too since patching the outfield doesn't seem sustainable with no one imminent coming up. If they plan on making a run the next few seasons they will need to address some uncertainty.

I hope they buy and sell.
 

Ganthem

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Good God no!!!. I am thrilled with the improvements that we've seen from Franchy concerning his approach at the plate and his play at first base has improved, but not to the point that he should been manning the position full time. Recently he's looked quite bad out there.
Cordero in the past month has put up a 119 WRC+ and a 758 ops. It would behoove the Sox to continue to play him since he could be a factor next season. They need to bench Kike, dump JBJ and trade for an outfielder OR a first baseman in order to keep Franchy in there every day.
 

YTF

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Cordero in the past month has put up a 119 WRC+ and a 758 ops. It would behoove the Sox to continue to play him since he could be a factor next season. They need to bench Kike, dump JBJ and trade for an outfielder OR a first baseman in order to keep Franchy in there every day.
I've no issue with Franchy getting a good amount of playing time, I have a big issue with him becoming the everyday 1st baseman. The defensive improvements that we've seen from the left side of the infield are partially voided by the inability to field the ball at first.
 

Ganthem

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I've no issue with Franchy getting a good amount of playing time, I have a big issue with him becoming the everyday 1st baseman. The defensive improvements that we've seen from the left side of the infield are partially voided by the inability to field the ball at first.
Then put him in right and find a first baseman and preferably not a platoon partner for Dalbec
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Cordero has put up a whopping 0.1 war, though. It’s cool that the stats suggest he is “elite” but the actual results are kind of meh. Everyone hated Benintendi because he didn’t have enough power, yet Franchy’s light tower power has resulted in a .402 slugging; 3 points lower than AB, and 3 homers. And he’s been pretty lackluster since a solid May, and the defense is…interesting.

I think it’s worth playing Franchy as much as possible but are we convinced he’s a key part of the next great Sox team?
 

YTF

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Cordero has put up a whopping 0.1 war, though. It’s cool that the stats suggest he is “elite” but the actual results are kind of meh. Everyone hated Benintendi because he didn’t have enough power, yet Franchy’s light tower power has resulted in a .402 slugging; 3 points lower than AB, and 3 homers. And he’s been pretty lackluster since a solid May, and the defense is…interesting.

I think it’s worth playing Franchy as much as possible but are we convinced he’s a key part of the next great Sox team?
Has anyone suggested that?
 

soxhop411

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Trust your eyes. He’s not a good player.
Lol. Come on. “Trust your eyes”.

give me a better explanation than that for why you think he isnt an MLB player.

thats a cop out especially for a place like SOSH that loves analytics.

any GM in any sport that uses an “eye test” to base their decisions wont have a job in sports for long. Especially in 2022
 

DeadlySplitter

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Cordero has always been an analytics darling that has only translated to a AAAA player at best.

He hits it pretty hard, but what about launch angle?
 

ngruz25

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scottyno

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Cordero has always been an analytics darling that has only translated to a AAAA player at best.

He hits it pretty hard, but what about launch angle?
Still not quite where you'd want it, but much better than last year. 12.3 up from 7.7. Someone that hits as hard as he does probably wants to be closer to 15.
 

RedOctober3829

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Lol. Come on. “Trust your eyes”.

give me a better explanation than that for why you think he isnt an MLB player.

thats a cop out especially for a place like SOSH that loves analytics.

any GM in any sport that uses an “eye test” to base their decisions wont have a job in sports for long. Especially in 2022
What does any of this even mean?

Look at baseball with more angles than just on a spreadsheet. Watch the games, look at the numbers, then evaluate the player. That’s how players are judged. Analytics are one tool not the end all be all. Anyone that knows anything about baseball will tell you this. In regards to Cordero, the numbers don’t back up what you see on the field. He’s a bench player at best. He doesn’t do any one thing particularly well and really doesn’t have a position.
 

grimshaw

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Statcast was a good predictor for Dalbec putting it together in the 2nd half last season. He hasn't built on any of that this season unless you're happy every time he shows some signs of life. The fear for me is that this could also be Franchy.

He is an exciting, toolsy player who is also running out of time to prove himself as an every day player. At some point a contending baseball team will need better than him at 1st or be confident that he can take over an outfield spot. The underlying numbers look wonderful for the bat and he's a big asset on the bases, but that doesn't change the fact he doesn't have a position when they deem it time for Casas to get his chance.

I want him on the team, I just don't want to roll the dice that he's a major part of the future. There's nothing wrong with an above average, dirt cheap utility guy. Every team needs them.
 
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soxin6

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Statcast was a good predictor for Dalbec putting it together in the 2nd half last season. He hasn't built on any of that this season unless you're happy every time he shows some signs of life. The fear for me is that this could also be Franchy.

He is an exciting, toolsy player who is also running out of time to prove himself as an every day player. At some point a contending baseball team will need better than him at 1st or be confident that he can take over an outfield spot. The underlying numbers look wonderful for the bat and he's a big asset on the bases, but that doesn't change the fact he doesn't have a position when they deem it time for Casas to get his chance.

I want him on the team, I just don't want to roll the dice that he's a major part of the future. There's nothing wrong with an above average, dirt cheap utility guy. Every team needs them.
Are the Sox really a contending team? I realize that they are currently in contention, but they don't have a winning record against anyone in their division and they have the toughest schedule left in the AL East. Sure the pitching will get healthier, but are they really a move or two away from contending for a championship? If the answer is no, they should sell what they can and try to collect more chips for next year.
 

grimshaw

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Are the Sox really a contending team? I realize that they are currently in contention, but they don't have a winning record against anyone in their division and they have the toughest schedule left in the AL East. Sure the pitching will get healthier, but are they really a move or two away from contending for a championship? If the answer is no, they should sell what they can and try to collect more chips for next year.
Contending meaning next season in this case for me. I don't think they are going far, if anywhere this season. I would not lose sleep if they traded Franchy, but if his value hasn't significantly improved since the last time he was moved, then I'd rather keep him in a bench role for next season.
 

Manramsclan

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Luis Castillo should be the target. 1 year of control left in 2023 then becomes a FA. Possible to extend him.

The way the Reds have been trending(slashing payroll and dealing talent for parts/full rebuild), I could see them taking a deal for multiple Major League ready pieces who would make the minimum. Not often would I think that that type of talent would be available for the storied PuPu Platter trade. I would think the Sox would be willing to overpay with quantity due to the impending 40 Man roster crunch and wouldn't give up anyone of consequence. Three dimes for a quarter type of thing.

Dalbec, one of Seabold/Winckowski/Crawford, one of Jeter Downs/Wong/Hernandez, and a High A lottery ticket I think would get it done.

I am spitballing here and don't know what trade simulators out there are actually viable, but I think this type of trade is presaged by what Bloom said in that interview:

You definitely have more options. I don’t know if it makes things easier, necessarily… We’re only allowed to have 40 on the 40-man roster and sometimes, when you are in a spot when you have good depth, you get faced with choices because of that. It can be helpful to try to get in front of those choices. The market might not always let you do that in the way that you want to.
Do you feel like those guys — whether it be Josh Winckowski, Connor Seabold, Kutter Crawford or someone else — would be extra attractive to other clubs?
When it comes to the trade market, the general rule is that teams like good players. It’s obvious but true. Generally, the closer those players are to the big leagues, the closer they are to being able to step in and help a club, the more value they’re going to carry. But also, the more valuable they are to us.
These are not mutually exclusive though at first glance they seem to be. There is also a little posturing here. Of course none of those three pitchers are untouchable. He is also right that they are and have been extremely helpful to this club. They have value to us and therefore they have value to other clubs as well. This is the place to deal from right now for this team.
 

chawson

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I'm going to edit down my post because I think I was wrong about the Statcast part, but I think the main point still holds: Franchy is elite when he makes contact, but he doesn't make contact much, so in the aggregate, he's just a pretty okay hitter.
His walk rate is 80th of 238 qualified MLB hitters (min. 190 PA).

Because of various injuries and pandemics, Cordero still has only had roughly one full season’s worth of PAs at the MLB level over his career (642), even with a couple months of semi-regular play this year. I think if you have a guy who lights up the Statcast metrics like that entering his second MLB season, you’d be excited.

It’s funny to me that so many people are clamoring for C.J. Cron and Josh Bell, two Statcast darlings who are the definition of late bloomers. Both of those guys had twice the major league PAs as Franchy has before fully breaking out. Cordero’s age-27 season is going much better than both of theirs did.
 
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scottyno

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What does any of this even mean?

Look at baseball with more angles than just on a spreadsheet. Watch the games, look at the numbers, then evaluate the player. That’s how players are judged. Analytics are one tool not the end all be all. Anyone that knows anything about baseball will tell you this. In regards to Cordero, the numbers don’t back up what you see on the field. He’s a bench player at best. He doesn’t do any one thing particularly well and really doesn’t have a position.
He hit's the ball harder than almost any other player in baseball. Pretty sure that's one thing he does well.
 

sean1562

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I dont think Dalbec has any trade value whatsoever. He is 27 years old. The Reds are so bad that they should be looking for high potential prospects for Castillo. They also have Joey Votto at 1B. Votto looks like his career is practically over and he still has a better OPS than Dalbec.

Seabold is nearly 27 and is having elbow problems. I don't think any team is going to be interested in him as a trade piece either. If the Reds are going to trade us Castillo, I would imagine they ask for one of Bello/Ceddanne, possibly both, to headline that deal.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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Offer them Tanner Houck and Kutter Crawford. They don't have to worry about multiple series in Toronto and it would solve the roster issues those two create. That would just leave Sale and he would be easy to work around for one series, nor is he likely to be as depended on as those two have been this year.
 

nvalvo

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Having a 47.6% groundball rate won't help the slugging percentage.
It's the Yandy Diaz play.

The Rays made a bet on Diaz because of his exceptional exit velocities, and tried to get him to hit the ball in the air more, with only moderate success. His average launch angle went from below 1 to above 6. It's more line drive/doubles power than over-the-fence pop, but he's a nice player. They took a guy who had a 94 OPS+ in Cleveland, and got a 121 out of him across a few seasons in TB.

Franchy hits the ball considerably harder than Diaz and already has a better launch angle. You quoted his groundball rate for his career — it's down to 39.2% this season. He's shaved 10% off his K rate and doubled his walk rate since last season.

I think we want to see where this path leads.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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At this point, Franchy should be playing every day, to see if the underlying stats can turn into really power production. There’s no point in giving any potential Franchy at bats to someone like JBJ, IMO. Team needs to figure out if Franchy is part of the future, and he’s a better option now than JBJ or Dalbec, anyways.
 

Sox Puppet

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I still have the old archetype of the slugging 1B in my mind and can't seem to move past it. I imagine a power-hitting slugger who maybe is a little slow on the basepaths, not quite athletic enough to move up the defensive spectrum, but who can mash and needs to play either there or at DH. Maybe a Niko Kavadas type. If he can field at all, that's a bonus.

Franchy's improved quite a lot since last year, but it's still taking time for me to wrap my head around a guy with 3 HR halfway through the season as a strong asset, even with excellent peripherals. And yes, I know HR, RBI, and the "eye test" are outdated ways of measuring a player. I think this is me needing to acknowledge my own cognitive limitations as a fan.
 

effectivelywild

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Cordero has always been an analytics darling that has only translated to a AAAA player at best.

He hits it pretty hard, but what about launch angle?
That's also why looking at "barrels" can be helpful, since that combines both exit velocity and launch angle.
 

RobertS975

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I still have the old archetype of the slugging 1B in my mind and can't seem to move past it. I imagine a power-hitting slugger who maybe is a little slow on the basepaths, not quite athletic enough to move up the defensive spectrum, but who can mash and needs to play either there or at DH. Maybe a Niko Kavadas type. If he can field at all, that's a bonus.

Franchy's improved quite a lot since last year, but it's still taking time for me to wrap my head around a guy with 3 HR halfway through the season as a strong asset, even with excellent peripherals. And yes, I know HR, RBI, and the "eye test" are outdated ways of measuring a player. I think this is me needing to acknowledge my own cognitive limitations as a fan.
George Scott, Mo Vaughn.... ain't walking through that door! This first base need is what we were obsessed with through most of last year, then Dalbec had a good month and a half.