Red Sox Trade Deadline 2022

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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They will soon be cranking out productive and cheap talent, as these really nice prospects work their way to the majors.

It took Houston a bunch of really terrible years to become a juggernaut. The Sox are retooling everything on the fly while hoping to not totally tank (I don’t necessarily mean deliberately…I mean just not be a godawful 100 loss team year after year) like Houston did.
Did Houston fans stop watching after Springer and Correa weren’t brought back?
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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They will soon be cranking out productive and cheap talent, as these really nice prospects work their way to the majors.

It took Houston a bunch of really terrible years to become a juggernaut. The Sox are retooling everything on the fly while hoping to not totally tank (I don’t necessarily mean deliberately…I mean just not be a godawful 100 loss team year after year) like Houston did.
Hopefully they will, but it doesn’t always work that way. Most of the Sox prospects (with the notable exception of Casas) aren’t all that close to the majors- a lot can go wrong between A ball and the majors. Also need to consider how strong the systems are in the division- some rankings have the Sox system 4th in the division - and I’d argue that every team in the AL East has more young major league talent than the Sox.
 

Van Everyman

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Hopefully they will, but it doesn’t always work that way. Most of the Sox prospects (with the notable exception of Casas) aren’t all that close to the majors- a lot can go wrong between A ball and the majors. Also need to consider how strong the systems are in the division- some rankings have the Sox system 4th in the division - and I’d argue that every team in the AL East has more young major league talent than the Sox.
All the more reason to retain Xander and Devers now and sell off some parts for some additional prospects. The early returns have been mixed on Bloom’s “trade a known quantity (Beni/Renfroe) for prospects and depth pieces“ deals but the jury is still out on most of them and I do think it’s generally the right approach if you’re trying to build back a depleted farm without tanking. But if you want to compete while you’re still rebuilding you can’t be stingy when it comes locking up the high end talent. And you need to make some calls midseason (ie, Vaz) that may be tough in the short term.
 

nvalvo

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But if his part goes to my other post (quoted by @sezwho) - if we are talking about the next 5 years (Devers prime) then we’re mostly talking about using players who are already in the system to fill in around Soto and Devers and it goes without saying that you’re going to be using the player pool left over from the hypothetical Soto trade. I don’t think I’d be that optimistic about that pool supplementing a MLB lineup… which would put us right back in the position of having to pay free agents to stay competitive.
Yup. It's fun and easy to dream on a Soto–Rafaela–Duran outfield behind a Devers–Mayer–Story–Casas infield, but, the thing is, in a scenario where Soto is in Boston, Rafaela, Mayer, and Casas (or similar) are playing in Washington. So, what we're instead looking at is a Soto–Koss—Duran outfield behind a Devers–Arroyo–Story–Binelas infield, and, well, that's where people start making Angels comps.

This is why the team that will net Soto will either just have stunning high-end prospect depth (STL) or just be a bit reckless (SD).
 

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Yup. It's fun and easy to dream on a Soto–Rafaela–Duran outfield behind a Devers–Mayer–Story–Casas infield, but, the thing is, in a scenario where Soto is in Boston, Rafaela, Mayer, and Casas (or similar) are playing in Washington. So, what we're instead looking at is a Soto–Koss—Duran outfield behind a Devers–Arroyo–Story–Binelas infield, and, well, that's where people start making Angels comps.

This is why the team that will net Soto will either just have stunning high-end prospect depth (STL) or just be a bit reckless (SD).
The first scenario is plausible if the Sox sign him as a FA
 

E5 Yaz

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The first scenario is plausible if the Sox sign him as a FA
Agreed. Tomase's column is such a surface-level whining knee-jerk piece of tripe. In the position this iteration of the Red Sox find themselves, I'd rather they take a chance on Soto/Ohtani when they inevitably hit free agency, instead of gutting their prospect list now and then potentially losing them in a year or three.

He throws Pedro's name in there without the context that it took all of two prospects to get him from the Expos. A Pedro today, you'd have to double it, at least ... look at what Castillo cost the Mariners.

Tomase's basically putting a whiner-line call into text
 

nvalvo

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The first scenario is plausible if the Sox sign him as a FA
Yup. But does he reach free agency? If so, I think we'd all be pretty interested.

edited to add: This also changes somewhat if we could acquire him on the model of the Betts-to-LA deal: taking on Corbin or Strasburg along with him. If the deal becomes something like Soto, Strasburg (and some proportion of his deal) for a more moderate package like Duran, Yorke and Wikelman Gonzalez, then it remains very possible to create a very expensive but excellent team in the aftermath — as the Dodgers have done. But unless the Nats are prioritizing shedding money, I doubt we're their most appealing trading partner.
 
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Minneapolis Millers

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… but as fans, we should support the acquisition of a 23-year-old Ted Williams, plus keeping Devers.
I’d love to see the Sox get Soto. He’s a great, cornerstone player. But SOSH is a Sox message board. Can we all please stop with the “Juan Soto is Ted Williams” nonsense? He’s not Ted Williams.
 

nvalvo

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I’d love to see the Sox get Soto. He’s a great, cornerstone player. But SOSH is a Sox message board. Can we all please stop with the “Juan Soto is Ted Williams” nonsense? He’s not Ted Williams.
True. Ted Williams isn't even in his top ten baseball-reference most similar batters, who are Mike Trout, Frank Robinson, Bryce Harper, Miguel Cabrera, Mickey Mantle, Tony Conigliaro, Hank Aaron, Orlando Cepeda, Giancarlo Stanton, and Ken Griffey Jr.
 

sharke5

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Agreed. Tomase's column is such a surface-level whining knee-jerk piece of tripe. In the position this iteration of the Red Sox find themselves, I'd rather they take a chance on Soto/Ohtani when they inevitably hit free agency, instead of gutting their prospect list now and then potentially losing them in a year or three.

He throws Pedro's name in there without the context that it took all of two prospects to get him from the Expos. A Pedro today, you'd have to double it, at least ... look at what Castillo cost the Mariners.

Tomase's basically putting a whiner-line call into text

Well said. God forbid Tomase put any type of real effort into one of his columns.
 

soxhop411

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Tomase is being disingenuous here as usual.

when we have the prospects. We are in on players like this. (Like Kimbrel and sale).

And thats the problem, that people like him and willfully ignoring. We DONT have that prospect talent to go after those types of players just yet. And as always it takes two to tango. A team has to WANT our top prospects and not prefer another team’s prospects over ours.
 

Ganthem

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Tomase is being disingenuous here as usual.

when we have the prospects. We are in on players like this. (Like Kimbrel and sale).

And thats the problem, that people like him and willfully ignoring. We DONT have that prospect talent to go after those types of players just yet. And as always it takes two to tango. A team has to WANT our top prospects and not prefer another team’s prospects over ours.
I would also add that the Sox are more then one player away from being a juggernaut. Next year they just have a left fielder, second baseman and third baseman. They have a lot of holes to fill. Blowing your wad on one player, no matter how good, is going to crimp their ability to effectively fill those holes.
 

Philip Jeff Frye

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True. Ted Williams isn't even in his top ten baseball-reference most similar batters, who are Mike Trout, Frank Robinson, Bryce Harper, Miguel Cabrera, Mickey Mantle, Tony Conigliaro, Hank Aaron, Orlando Cepeda, Giancarlo Stanton, and Ken Griffey Jr.
That's pretty goddamn impressive - five Hall of Famers, two more sure things in Trout and Cabrera, and a couple of could-be's in Harper and Stanton (although I guess I'd bet against them right now, especially Stanton).

Also points out what a shame Tony C's beaning was..
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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That's pretty goddamn impressive - five Hall of Famers, two more sure things in Trout and Cabrera, and a couple of could-be's in Harper and Stanton (although I guess I'd bet against them right now, especially Stanton).

Also points out what a shame Tony C's beaning was..
I of course worry about some of those names as they aged- Cabrera has brought Detroit to one ALCS 9 years ago and has otherwise been a dead weight. Harper in Philly? Trout in Anaheim, etc….
Combining Devers and Soto (and Story) for likely $100M alone looks like a potential anchor around a neck in 4 more years.
 

curly2

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I know it rarely happens -- although it did with Chapman and the Yankees -- but it wouldn't shock me if any or all of the Sox big three trade chips, JDM, Eovaldi and Vazquez, were willing to come back as free agents. Now I don't know if Bloom would be willing to sign them, but he's going to have A LOT of holes to fill next year, and he's got top field a team, so if he can find agreeable terms, I could see it. Eovaldi and Martinez have been with multiple teams already, and I think they like Boston, and while Vaz may not like being traded from the only organization he's only ever know, but if he's close with Cora, he might not want to come back.
 
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Red(s)HawksFan

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I of course worry about some of those names as they aged- Cabrera has brought Detroit to one ALCS 9 years ago and has otherwise been a dead weight. Harper in Philly? Trout in Anaheim, etc….
Combining Devers and Soto (and Story) for likely $100M alone looks like a potential anchor around a neck in 4 more years.
Say what? The Tigers went to three straight ALCS and won one of them (losing to the Giants in the World Series) with Cabrera in the lineup. He won the MVP in two of those seasons. Yes, he's not been great (or healthy) for the last 6-7 years, but I can't imagine the Tigers regret trading for him (they may now regret extending him for his age 34-41 seasons though).
 

moondog80

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I of course worry about some of those names as they aged- Cabrera has brought Detroit to one ALCS 9 years ago and has otherwise been a dead weight. Harper in Philly? Trout in Anaheim, etc….
Combining Devers and Soto (and Story) for likely $100M alone looks like a potential anchor around a neck in 4 more years.
This is the dilemma. Free agency is, almost by design, paying for the downside of a player's career, with the price based on accomplishments form when the player was younger. That blows up...a lot. Problem is, how else are you going to take advantage of being a high revenue club?
 
I know it rarely happens -- although it did with Chapman and the Yankees -- but it wouldn't shock me if any or all of the Sox big three trade chips, JDM, Eovaldi and Vazquez, were willing to come back as free agents. Now I don't know if Bloom would be willing to sign them, but he's going to have A LOT of holes to fill next year, and he's got top field a team, so if he can find agreeable terms, I could see it. Eovaldi and Martinez have been with multiple teams already, and I think they like Boston, and while Vaz may not like being traded from the only organization he's only ever know, but if he's close with Cora, he might not want to come back.
Lester was deep in talks about re signing with the Sox after his trade IIRC, right? I felt like at least within the media (which is a big caveat), it was felt that coming back to Boston was very much in play that off-season
 

soxhop411

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nvalvo

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I of course worry about some of those names as they aged- Cabrera has brought Detroit to one ALCS 9 years ago and has otherwise been a dead weight. Harper in Philly? Trout in Anaheim, etc….
Combining Devers and Soto (and Story) for likely $100M alone looks like a potential anchor around a neck in 4 more years.
Kind of like with A-Rod, the first giant contract the Tigers gave Cabrera worked out fabulously. It was a 8/$152m deal, and he was worth 46 WAR over those 8 years — on a dollars/WAR basis, that's amazing. But that doesn't really tell the story, because with two years left on that deal, they tore that deal up and extended him with a 10/$292m deal, in which he's only been worth about 13 WAR — most of which was earned in the two years that would have been covered by the first deal. Granted, that was a reward for two consecutive MVP seasons (and five straight finishes in the top five in MVP voting), but the point remains that it was the second giant contract that was the problem.

Seen from one perspective, this is actually an argument for giving monster deals to young players like Devers and Soto. The then-huge contract that they gave Miggy when he was 25 worked out marvelously. It was the massive extension they gave him when he was 31 that was a problem.
 

Looch

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Listening to WFAN, Mets fans are Jonesing on the idea of getting JD and Vasquez. What would a winning return from them look like, for those who follow this stuff much more closely than I do?
 

curly2

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Lester was deep in talks about re signing with the Sox after his trade IIRC, right? I felt like at least within the media (which is a big caveat), it was felt that coming back to Boston was very much in play that off-season
That was definitely speculated about. Ultimately it seemed there was bad blood from Lester and his agent toward Lucchino for their initial offer. I don't think there would necessarily be any bad feelings from these three guys.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Seen from one perspective, this is actually an argument for giving monster deals to young players like Devers and Soto. The then-huge contract that they gave Miggy when he was 25 worked out marvelously. It was the massive extension they gave him when he was 31 that was a problem.
This is true. Unfortunately, the trend now is that players, even younger ones, are seeking deals that take them well past that age 31 season. See Tatis Jr or Machado (thru age 35 season) or Trout (thru age 38) or Betts (thru age 39).

Makes you wonder if contracts like the one Wander Franco got this winter are what teams should be doing with their young franchise cornerstones.
 

billy ashley

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Hernandez had an abysmal start to the season but has rebounded nicely. He's got decent power and doesn't whiff a lot. If you can stomach the absolute lack of walks he could hit well enough to be an interestingish catcher.

Going into the season reports were pretty rough on the defense (they have been for years). Wong looks like a legit back-up.

The trouble with trading Vazquez is there isn't much hope on the near horizon for a full time catcher. I'm pleased with the development of Wong, but I'm curious what the long term play is if Vazquez is traded or if he leaves via free agency.
 

E5 Yaz

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I fear we are headed for an uneventful trade deadline ... then two months of regret that they didn't do anything
 

amfox1

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Listening to WFAN, Mets fans are Jonesing on the idea of getting JD and Vasquez. What would a winning return from them look like, for those who follow this stuff much more closely than I do?
I think LAD and NYM are the two primary contenders for JDM and there should be a bunch of contenders (HOU, CLE, TB, SD, NYM, STL) for CVaz once Castillo is traded. I'd be pushing for Mark Vientos, a high-minors pitching prospect (Jose Butto or Eric Orze) and a low-minors lotto ticket for the two of them. NYM may also want to send back Dom Smith and/or JD Davis, both of whom are DFA candidates post-trade deadline and neither of which have much value, to clear roster space. Vientos and Butto are on NYM's 40-man roster.
 

jmanny24

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I think LAD and NYM are the two primary contenders for JDM and there should be a bunch of contenders for CVaz once Castillo is traded. I'd be pushing for Mark Vientos, a second high-minors pitching prospect (Jose Butto or Eric Orze) and a low-minors lotto ticket for the two of them. NYM may also want to send back Dom Smith and/or JD Davis, both of whom are DFA candidates post-trade deadline and neither of which have much value, to clear roster space. Vientos and Butto are on NYM's 40-man roster.
I've seen Vientos' name mentioned a lot and think he is a good target but not to go all Willie McGee, where does he play? He's a 3B who has played a total of 47 games at other positions in the minors.
 

chawson

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I've seen Vientos' name mentioned a lot and think he is a good target but not to go all Willie McGee, where does he play? He's a 3B who has played a total of 47 games at other positions in the minors.
Washington?

Kidding, mostly. Vientos would be a good get (with DSmith or JDavis attached) but I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s then shipped in a bigger package.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Peterson and JD Davis seem look potentially good fits, they plug holes for the Sox and would be part of the team next year. They seem to fit the profile of the types Bloom had gone after as well. Mets don’t have much in the way of LH relievers; maybe we could foist Diekman on them too.
 

amfox1

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I've seen Vientos' name mentioned a lot and think he is a good target but not to go all Willie McGee, where does he play? He's a 3B who has played a total of 47 games at other positions in the minors.
He probably becomes the backup corner infielder, takes some PAs at DH and maybe can play a little LF (although he may not). His power is his main carrying tool (with a better hit tool than Bobby D).
 

Yaz4Ever

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I’m on board with Chaim completely overhauling this team with very few exceptions. Devers, Whitlock, Houck, …. I’m struggling to find anyone else I want him to hold onto (other than Xander). I doubt Story has a market and I’d be happy to have him back. I’d be perfectly happy to break a record on the number of players to be traded away in a 36 hour period. Other than Soto or Ohtani, I don’t see anyone to go crazy over. Just load the team with youngsters, hope some pan out, and spend the savings on the open market for the next couple of years.
 

YTF

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At this point I'm pretty much in agreement. It would be one thing if the team had hit a rough patch of poor play with a full compliment of healthy players and there was still hope of nailing down a WC spot with 60ish games left, but as currently constructed this team can't contend. Right now the return potential for some of the available pieces doesn't seem to be as high as we might hope, but the Sox and any team selling may well benefit from that added wild card team and the number of teams who think that they are still in contention. One way or another next season was always going to be a rebuild on some level. I hope that there is at least one trade that returns a piece that will fill a need for next season. Ideally a guy that can step in and fill a need in the starting lineup, but at the very least a STRONG 4th OF or multi positional player.
 

snowmanny

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It's fine if they get MiL pieces that can be flipped for a bigger piece in the off-season. I'm not expecting to have heard of anybody they might acquire in the next two days.
 

sean1562

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https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/free-agents/

Looking at the big FAs this offseason, who would we really want to sign? Go for Turner over Xander? Contreras over Vazquez? Mitch Haniger or Joey Gallo in the OF? Bring back Benintendi? It isn't a great FA year tbh. IDK if we can cobble together a championship caliber team through FA.
 

RobertS975

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I’m on board with Chaim completely overhauling this team with very few exceptions. Devers, Whitlock, Houck, …. I’m struggling to find anyone else I want him to hold onto (other than Xander). I doubt Story has a market and I’d be happy to have him back. I’d be perfectly happy to break a record on the number of players to be traded away in a 36 hour period. Other than Soto or Ohtani, I don’t see anyone to go crazy over. Just load the team with youngsters, hope some pan out, and spend the savings on the open market for the next couple of years.
Story is untradeable First and foremost, he is pretty much useless for most or all of this season anyway. And if someone wants him for the future 5 or 6 years left on his contract, it would undoubtedly require the Sox to pay a nasty portion of his salary. Forget about it!
 

YTF

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Looking at the big FAs this offseason, who would we really want to sign? Go for Turner over Xander? Contreras over Vazquez? Mitch Haniger or Joey Gallo in the OF? Bring back Benintendi? It isn't a great FA year tbh. IDK if we can cobble together a championship caliber team through FA.
Just thinking out loud...I wonder if Turner might consider a return to the OF. He's not played there since '16 and I have no idea what sort of defender he was back then, but there's definitely going to be a hole or two in the Boston OF.