Hadn't realized Benintendi finished with an 87 wRC+ and literally 0 WAR. The White Sox are a real disaster. Fun fact: Yoshida's 2023 was basically Benintendi's with better than league average offense. Really funny that since dumping Benintendi the Red Sox both keep replicating him and yet are still doing better than him in results.
Didn't Manny lead the league in outfield assists a few times? I mean, we all know he wasn't good out there, but defenive metrits are garbage
Outfield assists is not a metric.
He also... did not throw out many many baserunners who advanced because he was playing bad defense.
I worded that badly because I had to refrain from saying meaner things. But I was referring to the many other people who successfully made it without him throwing them out.
He also started out as a RF in Cleveland and threw out lots of runners. His defense really cratered in his last year there, and he got LF in Boston.
With Damon's arm, it probably was always a good idea to employ three cut off men when he had to throw to third.
And even he had 5-7 OF assists/yr in his Sox time. (Not sure how many were of the "8-7-x" variety
).
I saw a clip of pre-game practice before Game 1 of the 2007 ALCS where Trot was talking to one of his Cleveland teammates about Manny and he calls Manny's arm "sneaky quick," which I've always found to be a great description. Manny could unload the ball very quickly once he fielded it, he was deceptive in that regard.
In Manny's defense when Johnny Damon threw the ball from deep center it usually required seven minutes for the ball to roll all the way to the cutoff man.
If you want to cite one counting stat that is factored into all-in-one metrics that factor in a lot of things & are used by MLB teams, & say your singular counting stat is more useful, there's really not much to talk about. I'm sure Lou Gorman will be intrigued by this analysis.
Can you show your work on that?
Who? Its 2023- things can be measured without being tabulated manually by human beings. I don’t profess to know exactly how it’s done but I assume it’s not done by hand.
Yes, in 2023 things like jump, route, and speed are measured by cameras. Baseball Reference dWAR allegedly includes some of that. But they include a dWAR number for every player in history, and you can't argue with a straight face that defensive numbers for Honus Wagner are anything other than mostly made up.
The short answer is that OAA uses Statcast data in a more nuanced way than DRS & UZR. But for a longer answer...
I agree.
Been thinking this will have to be an ai soon if it’s not now. Too many variables, from ball speed and spin to positioning to parks and wind and humidity and…before you even get to evaluating the fielder. Seems ultimately a AI will watch all the plays (for whatever range) and figure out how everyone did against ‘average for PositionX’ for any given amount of plays. .
Thanks for this and I agree he'll be better next year. People talked about the longer season taking its toll but I don't think I ever heard anyone mention how it was extra long for him with the WBC. Time will tell but I'm hopeful.
With you on this. I think he's better defensively than the stats represent for 1- he gets the "Green Monster Penalty" and 2- defensive stats kinda blow. That said, he's far from JBJ out there and I don't think he's the liability that people claim him to be. From my years of watching, it really seems that the difference between a great OF and an average one is pretty insignificant over the course of a full season. I generally like his approach at the plate and agree that he'll likely will improve. People are writing him off after one exhausting season for him with the WBC.
Not sure what that means.
You’re not alone, he’s one of my favorites. I think he’ll be better next year, as well.
I feel the part of the Yoshida blowback is due to the fact that some folks have an issue separating game threads from postings that actually try to engage in rational discussion. Personally, I was slightly disappointed in that Yoshida was a bit Jekyll and Hyde at the plate. His start at the plate was slow to develop and then he went on a tear, looking like he the best hitter in the game. Of course we know that he eventually reverted back to his early season form, but that streak that he put together couldn't have been a fluke. With the newness of everything now behind him, I'm looking forward to year two.
His approach was far too professional and patient for that to have been fluky. His season went, - long funk adjustment period. Then- kickass, totally professional hitter, patient and disciplined, full field hitting with some power (20HR level over a full season). Then.... the question is: Did the league adjust to him and he couldn't make that last adjustment the way so many new-to-MLB hitters can look great for a stretch and then never put it together again, or was he legit exhausted. Playing the WBC, long MLB season? I'd bet it's the latter. The occasional hitters that find a great stretch that never recover tend to be free swingers which I don't think Yoshida is. I think we'll see a more consistent .800+ OPS hitter with great OBP skills.
I think the result will be the same unless the hitting coaches change. Literally almost no one gets better under their watch.
…can you find a recording of it? There’ll be at least three or four Japanese speakers on this site who could provide a translation.
Yep, Cassas and Duran never improved at the plate, so I guess Yoshida has no chance of improving either. /s
Absolutely. Can’t really be too data driven here as the MLB sample is so small but I’m quite optimistic - I’ll see that 800 and raise to 825+
Nooo, sorry. It was part of their regular programing.....but I will do some digging.. .If any...... of your Japanese speakers sunscribe to NHK then it can be pulled up again. Otherwise it's history. Sorry.
Yeah, I just meant that it confirms what you said about upper leg issues throughout the year which hopefully they can sort out as that will impact every aspect of his game.
