That's why Darwin was sent down. I thought COVID IL was still on the 40 ... no?It's for Josh Winckowski who just came off the COVID IL.
That's why Darwin was sent down. I thought COVID IL was still on the 40 ... no?It's for Josh Winckowski who just came off the COVID IL.
Have to wait until the trade deadline, when a number of 40-man and 26-man spots are likely to be freed up.Generally expecting more DFA's coming up for the more useless of BP arms (Ort next?)
was Darwin not on the 40? And Valdez will likely clear waivers. I doubt we have seen the end of that shipwreck.That's why Darwin was sent down. I thought COVID IL was still on the 40 ... no?
Humiliation!Didn't see it posted anywhere on the main board. Baltimore overtook us with tonight's loss. Sole possession of last place in the AL East and a .500 record.
This sucks.
How'd we be doing absent freak injuries?Joke’s on all the people who claimed the Sox were only a 4th place team this year. We sure showed them.
Yeah there's s lot of knee-jerk, CHB-like snarkiness going on here that sometimes is beneath main board-level discussion, or should be IMO. I've mostly discounted it as frustration over a super -frustrating season.How'd we be doing absent freak injuries?
I don't remember people being this bitter in 2006.
So why do you continue to watch if it's so unenjoyable? Hate watching?At least personally, a large part of the frustration is that the Sox are getting epically horrible production at a few positions, that should be fairly easy to upgrade, yet have done nothing to address it. Most nights, the product on the field has been fairly embarrassing to watch.
Add in the melancholy feelings of watching many of the teams best players likely in their last days with the team, and the increasing possibility that the team will be worse in the coming years, and yeah, it’s not exactly fun.
It’s also the way the team is playing; sure they’ve had injuries (as have many other teams) but they are playing sloppy, uninspired, non competitive baseball with lousy fundamentals, numerous mental mistakes, etc etc.
Add in the unforced errors (the not able to go to Toronto stuff), the lack of apparent X/Devers negotiations) and it hardly feels like a fun team with good vibes.
And fans were angry / disappointed in ‘06 too.
Where did I say I “hate the product”? I love baseball and the Sox; lousy baseball is still better than no baseball; and whether I watch or not has no impact on how the team plays, sadly.So why do you continue to watch if it's so unenjoyable? Hate watching?
If you hate a product and continue to support that product, it's not going to change.
Moreover, the constant harping on the same issues makes the experience far less enjoyable for the rest of us.So why do you continue to watch if it's so unenjoyable? Hate watching?
If you hate a product and continue to support that product, it's not going to change.
No one is loving the way they are playing right now but if someone is getting literally no enjoyment out of watching the Boston Red Sox and/or it's actually making their mood worse...Where did I say I “hate the product”? I love baseball and the Sox; lousy baseball is still better than no baseball; and whether I watch or not has no impact on how the team plays, sadly.
Are there folks here that are loving the way they’ve been playing lately?
Yup, exactly.At least personally, a large part of the frustration is that the Sox are getting epically horrible production at a few positions, that should be fairly easy to upgrade, yet have done nothing to address it. Most nights, the product on the field has been fairly embarrassing to watch.
….
They didn't finish last in 2006.How'd we be doing absent freak injuries?
I don't remember people being this bitter in 2006.
They haven't finished last in 2022.They didn't finish last in 2006.
They've spent more than $200 million to be in last place in the division. This isn't all about the injuries either.
Tell me the truth: do you really think this team is a good one this year, one that can compete in the playoffs?They haven't finished last in 2022.
Yeah, if healthy. They are 3.5 games back of the playoffs right now with 64 games to go.Tell me the truth: do you really think this team is a good one this year, one that can compete in the playoffs?
That should be considered a fluke more than anything else. Winning 83 games in a season is not a recipe for success by any reasonable standard.This team won a WS. 83-78. https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/STL/2006.shtml
I think this is a good summary. The young players who have been given a chance in the wake of all the injuries have unfortunately been unable to contribute in any positive way. Bello doesn't appear to be ready; that's not a character flaw but at the same time it's pretty lousy timing.The Sox are only 3.5 games out of a playoff spot, despite their horrific play. The real problem is that they won't be getting any help from Sale (which I was expecting, so that's a huge letdown), and Devers is out for a little bit still, and most importantly, they have to leapfrog 4 teams in order to claim that last WC spot. Not THAT long ago they had the #1 WC position by a couple of games' margin, and they've fallen quite far back with a bunch of other teams slipping in there.
So their playoff chances are much, much lower than they were not long ago. AND they won't be getting the internal help they were counting on. Also, in that vein, I was really expecting Bello to come in and help and he's come in and been a disaster. I don't think this is any sign that he will fail in his career, but for THIS year he's been most unhelpful:
4.0 ip, 6 h, 4 r, 4 er, 3 bb, 2 k (L, 7-1)
4.0 ip, 7 h, 5 r, 5 er, 3 bb, 5 k (L, 10-5)
4.0 ip, 9 h, 5 r, 5 er, 2 bb, 2 k (L, 8-4)
12.0 ip, 22 h, 14 r, 14 er, 8 bb, 9 k, 10.50 era, 2.50 whip, 6.8 k/9, team is 0-3 in his appearances
Who cares? You asked if the Sox could compete in the playoffs. Yes, they can. Or they can even just get lucky. Because the playoffs are a crapshoot and shit happens. Luck matters.That should be considered a fluke more than anything else. Winning 83 games in a season is not a recipe for success by any reasonable standard.
It's been more than just the injuries. Verdugo is OPS+ing 85, JBJ 58. Duran's at 92 but his defense is terrible. They're getting underperformance all over the outfield.Despite the lousy production at two positions, the team was doing pretty well until a torrent of injuries. To be sure, *not* having lousy production at 2 positions would have been able to soften the blow of the injuries somewhat, but they still have to play the games.
We're not going to agree on this at all. Hoping to be an 83 win team that sneaks into the playoffs isn't what this team should be doing.Who cares? You asked if the Sox could compete in the playoffs. Yes, they can. Or they can even just get lucky. Because the playoffs are a crapshoot and shit happens. Luck matters.
Speaking of Verdugo and JBJ...is there any rational explanation why Verdugo is 113OPS+ on the road and 65(!) at home; and JBJ is 123 at home and 6(!!!!!!!!!) on the road. Six.It's been more than just the injuries. Verdugo is OPS+ing 85, JBJ 58. Duran's at 92 but his defense is terrible. They're getting underperformance all over the outfield.
JBJ at least had always hit vastly better at Fenway. I don't know why, he must see the ball well here or something.Speaking of Verdugo and JBJ...is there any rational explanation why Verdugo is 113OPS+ on the road and 65(!) at home; and JBJ is 123 at home and 6(!!!!!!!!!) on the road. Six.
They did really well in June. They played: Athletics (6), Angels (4), Mariners (3), Cardinals (3), Tigers (3), Guardians (3), Blue Jays (3), Reds (1). Not exactly a brutal stretch, but they did play some WC contenders.Despite the lousy production at two positions, the team was doing pretty well until a torrent of injuries. To be sure, *not* having lousy production at 2 positions would have been able to soften the blow of the injuries somewhat, but they still have to play the games.
It's not what they should be hoping to do, but if they do that and win a WS... are you going to complain? Will that WS mean less?We're not going to agree on this at all. Hoping to be an 83 win team that sneaks into the playoffs isn't what this team should be doing.
It gets similarly tiresome reading the same people saying everything is just fine over and over and over.edit: And as RR said, it gets tiresome reading the same people complain about the same thing over and over and over.
I guess, but hopefully you are wrong otherwise the entire MLB season is a joke. Which it now may be thanks to the extra wild cards.Who cares? You asked if the Sox could compete in the playoffs. Yes, they can. Or they can even just get lucky. Because the playoffs are a crapshoot and shit happens. Luck matters.
I don't see anyone saying everything is just fine. I see a lot of people who think the Sox can compete this year are also talking about possibly selling.It gets similarly tiresome reading the same people saying everything is just fine over and over and over.
Last year the Reds would have made the playoffs under the current system. 83-79.I guess, but hopefully you are wrong otherwise the entire MLB season is a joke. Which it now may be thanks to the extra wild cards.
Baseball is by far the random walk-iest of all major sports by an enormous amount, which is why the regular season used to matter. Eventually the better teams would separate, but even the very best teams win 100 games (which reduces quickly to 100-60 or 5-3 which is ~ one game over 500).
If the goal is to be 500 and stumble into the playoffs and hope the better teams hit balls to your fielders, which for sure can happen for series or two, then welcome to the Bloomtown.
That's wildly unfair. Bloom wasn't hoping to construct a .500 team and get lucky. If you look at my admittedly subjective look at who has over performed and under performed and performed at about expectation level, they have SO MANY more guys under performing than over performing. Bloom wasn't counting on that kind of unfortunate tilt in his roster. Looking at the standings, if his team performs at normal levels (a few guys Under, a few guys Over, and most at about Expectation level), than this team is probably in first place in the WC standings, or at least is IN the WC spot right now at a minimum. You just can't count on this terrible disparity, this many guys playing so much worse than expectation.If the goal is to be 500 and stumble into the playoffs and hope the better teams hit balls to your fielders, which for sure can happen for series or two, then welcome to the Bloomtown.
Ting. We also have to consider that Franchy wasn't on the radar, was brought up as a stop-gap, started putting it together. . .then fell apart. These things happen. But it's not like ineffectual-Franchy was the plan when we played our first game.I mean, here's the thing. It's one thing to assemble a crappy team. But it's another to have such a high percentage of them underperforming your expectations.
I'm going to call you out on this. Show it.It gets similarly tiresome reading the same people saying everything is just fine over and over and over.
Agree that it’s tiresome to talk about how Bloom failed this off-season (although it’s also bizarre that every concern about a Bloom move from this year is met with a “the team was good last year” refrain) less tiresome to wonder why he hasn’t done anything to fix mistakes of several months ago. But that seems to be the argument of many; he set up the roster, no control over what happens after that.I don't see anyone saying everything is just fine. I see a lot of people who think the Sox can compete this year are also talking about possibly selling.
But yeah, season over. Let's talk about how Bloom failed this offseason by counting on Bobby Dalbec and JBJ yet again.
Because it's not a mature argument, it's wishcasting. Sure, if they sneak into the playoffs with a 500 or even worse record, they could go on a run. That's so unlikely to happen GIVEN WHAT WE'VE SEEN FROM THE TEAM THIS YEAR that it's not worth discussing. Such a statement stifles discussion instead of enhancing it because you're clinging to the 0.0000000000001% chance that it might happen. It's entirely unrealistic.Mature and entirely unobjectionable points like: "Anyway, this sucks, but if we get to the post season, we could always go on a run" get treated to the street-corner howling instead of developed.
You did the legwork to capture underperformers, which is great as the board always needs rigor, but I'm not sure my take is unfair.That's wildly unfair. Bloom wasn't hoping to construct a .500 team and get lucky. If you look at my admittedly subjective look at who has over performed and under performed and performed at about expectation level, they have SO MANY more guys under performing than over performing. Bloom wasn't counting on that kind of unfortunate tilt in his roster. Looking at the standings, if his team performs at normal levels (a few guys Under, a few guys Over, and most at about Expectation level), than this team is probably in first place in the WC standings, or at least is IN the WC spot right now at a minimum. You just can't count on this terrible disparity, this many guys playing so much worse than expectation.
I mean, Dalbec. His first two seasons (156 g) he hit 33 homers in 545 plate appearances (one homer every 16.5 PA) and had an ops+ of 112. Ok. maybe he's not THAT good. Fine. You expect some result less than that. Say, maybe, one homer every 20 PA, and an ops+ of 100, with the power - which he's ALWAYS had in spades - making up for a low OBP.
But this year he's got 8 homers in 268 plate appearances (one homer every 33.5 PA), and an ops+ of 69. So you expected worse numbers than what he had done his first two years, but he's been absolutely WAY worse than even that. But if he WAS putting up what I might have expected - which was still a drop-off from his first two seasons - he'd have been much much more productive this year and maybe helped them win a few more games - which alone might have been enough to put them in a WC spot or close to it. And that's just ONE guy.
so why do you continue to read if it's not enjoyable? hate posting?Moreover, the constant harping on the same issues makes the experience far less enjoyable for the rest of us.
But that's the thing. 7 of the last 25 World Series winners (28.0%) have been WC entrants. That's not remotely 0.0000000000001%. It means that if the Sox do manage to get in, they have a VERY REAL and legitimate chance to make a deep run and maybe even win it all.Because it's not a mature argument, it's wishcasting. Sure, if they sneak into the playoffs with a 500 or even worse record, they could go on a run. That's so unlikely to happen GIVEN WHAT WE'VE SEEN FROM THE TEAM THIS YEAR that it's not worth discussing. Such a statement stifles discussion instead of enhancing it because you're clinging to the 0.0000000000001% chance that it might happen. It's entirely unrealistic.
You're taking every bit the partisan position you're accusing others of having. In your own words: don't be a part of that.
It's not the WC bit I take issue with. Of course a WC team can win it, as long as it's a GOOD team.But that's the thing. 7 of the last 25 World Series winners (28.0%) have been WC entrants. That's not remotely 0.0000000000001%. It means that if the Sox do manage to get in, they have a VERY REAL and legitimate chance to make a deep run and maybe even win it all.
You are correct, of course, that none of us were hoping for, or expecting, the team to be in last place in the AL East at this point in time. Of course, I don't know that we were expecting Baltimore to be a +.500 team at this point either, so good for them (bad for us). The season has been very disappointing so far. We all agree on that. I don't think any of us here were hoping for this. But it's one thing to say that this season is a disappointment so far, and it's another thing to say that they're DONE and basically have no chance.
I, for one, am holding out hope that somehow, some way, they can squeak into the playoffs and then get hot like they did last year, which is totally possible and not a crazy thought at all.
What I think is unfair is the insinuation on your part that this was Bloom's plan - to be a .500 team and then sneak in and get lucky in the playoffs. Now I could have been misreading your intent, and if so, I apologize. But that was the point of my "you're being wildly unfair" comment. Please correct me if I'm wrong.You did the legwork to capture underperformers, which is great as the board always needs rigor, but I'm not sure my take is unfair.
I don't understand. I think they have had TWO guys on the pitching staff that have over performed expectations: Wacha and Schrieber. That's it. How is that "lucky", when compared to the number of pitchers that have under performed?I thought they were just as lucky with pitching performance this season as they were unlucky with offense. Why be so keen to credit Bloom for luck in Pitching and give him a pass for Offense? I thought they were quite lucky to get on a hot streak with the bats last season too. and the Schwarber bet could have gone the other way quite easily.
IF this team gets healthy (and that includes Sale) AND this team finds production in RF or 1B (Get it done, Chaim) THEN they have a chance to do well in the Wildcard and maybe go a bit deeper than we expected before the season began.It's not the WC bit I take issue with. Of course a WC team can win it, as long as it's a GOOD team.
It's the idea that an 83 win team has a puncher's chance at the title because it happened once.
No but that's kinda misreading it a little. The point isn't that an 83 win team won it so the Sox can (and that team was a division winner, mind you). It's that as long as you get into the postseason tournament, no matter how you got there, you've got a chance. And frankly, it's not hard at ALL for me to see how THIS team could make a run in the postseason if they get there. They have some outstanding players who just need to perform at their expected level at the same time. Which, to be fair, seems like a stretch right now, but hey, it's not CRAZY.It's not the WC bit I take issue with. Of course a WC team can win it, as long as it's a GOOD team.
It's the idea that an 83 win team has a puncher's chance at the title because it happened once.
I have to put Dalbec and Cordero firmly in the "E" column, and that's been one of Blooms biggest failures in constructing this team. They haven't underperformed. No one should've been expecting sustained production at 1B, because that's not who those guys are. Dalbecs hot streak for a few weeks in the second half last year, not withstanding. Same with JBJ. It was wing and prayer stuff thinking he'd bounce back with a productive offensive season at this stage in his career. The injuries are what they are, they are significant, and he's not at fault for those. But the bargain basement approach at 1B and in the outfield is a hit on his record.Players underperforming (U), overperforming (O), or performing roughly as expected (E):
C - Vazquez (O)
1b - Dalbec (U)
2b - Story (U)
3b - Devers (E)
SS - Bogaerts (E)
LF - Verdugo (U)
CF - Hernandez (U)
RF - Bradley (U)
DH - Martinez (U) - good OPS at 130, but very little power and run production (just 38 rbi)
OF - Refsnyder (O)
OF - Duran (U) - not killing them at the plate (not good either of course), but D has been terrible
OF/1b - Cordero (U)
IF - Arroyo (U)
C - Plawecki (U) - nobody expected much but a 53 ops+ is considerably worse than his career norm
P - Pivetta (E)
P - Sale (U) - thought he'd be back sooner, then did meh, then is out again
P - Eovaldi (U) - 4.30 era and hurt
P - Wacha (O) - the one real stunner this year
P - Hill (E)
P - Whitlock (U) - thought he'd be better, even though he's been fine overall
P - Houck (E)
P - Sawamura (E) - numbers are in line with what he did last year
P - Diekman (U)
P - Davis (E)
P - Barnes (U)
P - Brasier (U)
P - Schrieber (O) - the other wildly successful story of this year
P - Strahm (E)
P - Robles (U) - and now gone
P - Seabold/Ort/Crawford/Danish (E) - didn't expect much...haven't gotten much
I mean, those are just my subjective judgments, but from this list, I see 33 guys (or 30 if you count that last group as one guy, as I kind of did). Of that list, just 4 of them are over performing my expectations: Vazquez (106 ops+), Refsnyder (149 ops+ in limited time), Wacha (2.69 era but now hurt), and Schrieber (who's been phenomenal).
There have been 17 guys by my count that are underperforming what I would have expected from them.
I mean, here's the thing. It's one thing to assemble a crappy team. But it's another to have such a high percentage of them underperforming your expectations. Like...I didn't expect a whole lot out of, say, Brasier. But he's been WAY worse than even those modest expectations. Ok, whatever. But then there's guys like JD, who has a decent ops+, but he's not hitting for any power or driving in any runs (8 homers and 38 rbi at this point project to 13 homers and 63 rbi...terrible for your #4 hitter). WAY underperforming what is expected of him. Story had a nice stretch in May but he's been hurt and overall not good. Eovaldi has underperformed, with a 4.30 era and has been injured.
Obviously there's ranges. Like there's underperforming (Eovaldi by just a little) and there's *underperforming* (Barnes' utter catastrophe of a season). But when over half your team is underperforming and only like 4 guys are OVER performing - and one of them is just a fill-in (Refsnyder), then you know you have problems. Typically you expect a few guys to over perform, a few guys to underperform, and most of the team to play roughly to their expected level. This team isn't doing that at ALL.
In fact, when you look at that reality, it's actually amazing that they're even at .500.