As an unabashed Freddie fan, I would love to have him on the Sox. Dealing with a glut of talent is rarely a bad problem to have.
Red Sox in season discussion
- Thread starter Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat
- Start date
The only reason to be hesitant about Freeman is the cost and how it could impact the rest of the roster. It's going to take top dollars for a long time, which is always a risk. But he's legit top 2-3 in the league good. Since he entered the league, only two first basemen have been better than him on an OPS+ basis (Votto and Goldschmidt). Arguably there's only one 1B better right now (Vlad Jr).
I have my doubts that their interest is serious and anything other than making it slightly more difficult for AL East rivals to lock him up, but having him in the lineup would be a big boost.
I'd love to see him here, but the early asking price was 6 years at 30M per and while he's been very durable that's a big commitment through age 38. Maybe this is an attempt to "drive up the price" with the MFY and Toronto involved? Or maybe they see this as a legit counter to what NY and Toronto have done. It does free up Casas to be moved and it would be one less bat to worry about next off season. In the end, I don't think it happens.
Last edited:
Freddie is about as close to a cant miss star as you can have. But I would much rather go all in on Suzuki and fill a true position of need and wait out Casas for one more year.
Not many trades I can envision Casas a part of. But Murphy+Montas is one and the A’s are wide open at 1B now.
If we are entertaining 1B ideas, 2 years of Joey Votto would cost 57 million and might get Castillo stapled to him. And doesn’t really hurt the Casas timeline. I’d prefer that route.
Definitely. He's still productive, if overpaid. You can get some young talent and still a useful piece just by flexing a little financial muscle.
He doesn’t make any sense. Dalbec is perfect to hold the fort until Casas. Even “getting a good return” on a Casas deal would need to offset the cost somewhere else. I don’t see it happening.
Would like to see something happen though, but not Freeman
Would like to see something happen though, but not Freeman
If Correa is off the table, I would be all-in on Freddie Freeman. Great player, high character. He can play 1B this year and between him, Devers, or Casas could all rotate through the DH slot after this year when JD is a free agent. This would be a no-brainer to me.
Hernandez CF
Bogaerts SS
Devers 3B
Freeman 1B
Martinez DH
Verdugo LF
Arroyo 2B
Vazquez C
Bradley RF
Bench: Duran, Dalbec, Plawecki, Arauz
Heck of a lineup.
Hernandez CF
Bogaerts SS
Devers 3B
Freeman 1B
Martinez DH
Verdugo LF
Arroyo 2B
Vazquez C
Bradley RF
Bench: Duran, Dalbec, Plawecki, Arauz
Heck of a lineup.
I find it next to impossible to believe they are actually pursuing Freddie Freeman, given his age, Bloom's disinclination to sign expensive FA, and the strength at the position organizationally. I would just like Bloom to get one - one - blue chip bat for the outfield (or middle infield), say, Suzuki or Bryant ....but even there I'm not holding my breath ...
This wasn’t the main thrust of your post, but would Hernandez play in center if JBJ were a starter? I guess we’ll see you n another week or so.
Red October can only go with what we have ATM. Push to shove perhaps JBJ plays center, but I think that also magnifies the need for another corner OF.
Yes I believe they would keep Kike in center and JBJ in right. Kike was great in center last year.
If Freeman were to happen, it would seem like something driven by his desire to play here over LAD/NYY/TOR, teams I’d imagine would offer comparable money. I’m not convinced that’s true, but it could be.
I think if there’s a superstar who wants to be here, it’s worth deviating from the plan rather than bank on winning bids for ideal FA fits who might not want to for reasons of geography and climate (Suzuki, et al.)
I could see how getting Freeman for like 6/$180 could be preferable to signing Correa at nearly twice that cost, and obviate anything messy with Bogaerts. Freeman would also seem to age gracefully without the shift.
Making Casas available gets us in the conversation for guys like Luis Castillo, Sean Murphy, German Márquez and Ramon Laureano. I’d figure Dalbec and Duran would likely go too in separate deal(s).
Let’s say we whiff on Schwarber and Suzuki, sign Freeman and move our newly blocked prospects for other targets. Send Dalbec, Duran and Darwinzon to the Reds for Castillo, Moustakas and Nick Senzel, then trade Casas, Vaz and Arroyo to the A’s for Sean Murphy, Andrus, Trivino and Pinder (.884 OPS vs. LHP last year; +3 outs above average in RF ‘19-21). (All simulator approved). Here’s what that looks like:
Hernández - CF
Freeman - 1B
Bogaerts - SS
Devers - 3B
Martinez - DH
Verdugo - LF
Senzel - 2B
Murphy - C
Pinder/JBJ - RF
Bench: Moustakas, Plawecki, JBJ, Andrus
Rotation: Sale, Castillo, Eovaldi, Pivetta, Houck, Wacha, Hill
Bullpen: Barnes, Whitlock, Diekman, Trivino, Strahm, Taylor (Brasier, Bazardo, Sawamura, Valdez)
IL: Paxton
I’d roll with that. Especially if we could extend Castillo to something like the Berrios deal. Moustakas (2/$32M) may be a DH candidate depending on JDM’s future, and could rebound too in ‘23 with the shift banned.
I think if there’s a superstar who wants to be here, it’s worth deviating from the plan rather than bank on winning bids for ideal FA fits who might not want to for reasons of geography and climate (Suzuki, et al.)
I could see how getting Freeman for like 6/$180 could be preferable to signing Correa at nearly twice that cost, and obviate anything messy with Bogaerts. Freeman would also seem to age gracefully without the shift.
Making Casas available gets us in the conversation for guys like Luis Castillo, Sean Murphy, German Márquez and Ramon Laureano. I’d figure Dalbec and Duran would likely go too in separate deal(s).
Let’s say we whiff on Schwarber and Suzuki, sign Freeman and move our newly blocked prospects for other targets. Send Dalbec, Duran and Darwinzon to the Reds for Castillo, Moustakas and Nick Senzel, then trade Casas, Vaz and Arroyo to the A’s for Sean Murphy, Andrus, Trivino and Pinder (.884 OPS vs. LHP last year; +3 outs above average in RF ‘19-21). (All simulator approved). Here’s what that looks like:
Hernández - CF
Freeman - 1B
Bogaerts - SS
Devers - 3B
Martinez - DH
Verdugo - LF
Senzel - 2B
Murphy - C
Pinder/JBJ - RF
Bench: Moustakas, Plawecki, JBJ, Andrus
Rotation: Sale, Castillo, Eovaldi, Pivetta, Houck, Wacha, Hill
Bullpen: Barnes, Whitlock, Diekman, Trivino, Strahm, Taylor (Brasier, Bazardo, Sawamura, Valdez)
IL: Paxton
I’d roll with that. Especially if we could extend Castillo to something like the Berrios deal. Moustakas (2/$32M) may be a DH candidate depending on JDM’s future, and could rebound too in ‘23 with the shift banned.
The Reds are going to trade Castillo for a guy who couldn't crack our post-season lineup, another guy who couldn't crack our lineup at all and a walk-prone, oft-injured relief pitcher?
I think a big part of chawson's suggestion was also taking on Moustakas' salary. Not quite enough, imho, to get Castillo, but that's a tire to kick.
If we're going to discuss Freeman at 30+ per why not offer the 32+ that it may take to sign Suzuki and Schwarber. Fill your OF need and lock in JDM's replacement. Find a trade partner for Martinez eat some of the contract and apply the rest to pitching. I know that's a bit simplistic but it seems there's a path there. Let Duran play and develop in AAA.
Last edited:
Small nitpick but on Devers DH days neither of the other two can play 3B.
Joey Votto is 38 but his contract is winding down to the point where it's not a total albatross ($25M in 2022 and 2023). It would be pretty cool to have Casas' idol as the stop gap for a season and Votto could move to DH in 2023.
Perhaps taking on Votto's entire contract would enable them to acquire Luis Castillo without putting Casas and/or Mayer on the table. Two years of Berrios cost the Blue Jays two top 50 prospects if I recall correctly. Castillo may be better but you're also taking on ~$50M in salary. Maybe a package centered around Nick Yorke makes sense?
Perhaps taking on Votto's entire contract would enable them to acquire Luis Castillo without putting Casas and/or Mayer on the table. Two years of Berrios cost the Blue Jays two top 50 prospects if I recall correctly. Castillo may be better but you're also taking on ~$50M in salary. Maybe a package centered around Nick Yorke makes sense?
I don't think we're quite in a GFIN mode, given the pitching staff. So Freeman and a ton of GFIN/exhaust-the-farm lateraling while bloating the payroll makes not much sense to me. Neither does Schwarber.
Looking ahead, in 2023, we're losing: Xander (possibly), JD, Enrique Hernandez (SS/DH/CF). Wacha/Hill (rotation stopgaps). Vazquez/Plawecki (C). So we're going to be either hitting the expensive FA market, or trading to address the OF, C, and SS in 2023.
But we should be all set at 1B/3B/DH in 2022 and 2023. Dalbec appears to have recovered enough to be viable and won't hit arb until 2024. Devers, unless extended, is a FA in 2024. Casas should arrive this year, and, given a possible slump or disappointment, should be ready for the 2023 campaign. JD is JD.
Most of the organization's prospect bats (if not traded for value) should arrive in the 2024-5 years: Mayer (SS), Yorke (2B), Jordan (3B/1B), Binelas (3B/1B).
Looking ahead, in 2023, we're losing: Xander (possibly), JD, Enrique Hernandez (SS/DH/CF). Wacha/Hill (rotation stopgaps). Vazquez/Plawecki (C). So we're going to be either hitting the expensive FA market, or trading to address the OF, C, and SS in 2023.
But we should be all set at 1B/3B/DH in 2022 and 2023. Dalbec appears to have recovered enough to be viable and won't hit arb until 2024. Devers, unless extended, is a FA in 2024. Casas should arrive this year, and, given a possible slump or disappointment, should be ready for the 2023 campaign. JD is JD.
Most of the organization's prospect bats (if not traded for value) should arrive in the 2024-5 years: Mayer (SS), Yorke (2B), Jordan (3B/1B), Binelas (3B/1B).
The idea that the Sox are going to suddenly make a series of moves which add tons of payroll and strips the team of cost controlled young players don’t seem at all realistic to me. I think they will see what RH bat is willing to take a short term deal and maybe add a middle infielder. Suddenly taking on Voto’s deal would be quite a pivot. Adding a top shelf starter would be nice but I’m not sure how they do it with the current set up; they don’t appear to have room for another one without moving one of the guys they have, and none are good candidates to deal.
Right, taking on Moustakas’ $32 million would grease the wheels, is the idea. I’m not sure how many other teams would be willing to do that.
What would you propose to do with these cost-controlled young players instead?
In that scenario, we’d be trading two first basemen blocked by an incoming Hall of Famer, who’d benefit substantially going forward (according to this study published today) by the banished shift. And we’re also filling holes at catcher (Murphy), 2B/CF (Senzel), SP (Castillo), RF (Pinder) and I suppose DH (Moustakas) that we’d otherwise have to fill by spending money in free agency — which is the process by which we attempt to outbid other teams and cross our fingers that our targets actually want to play in Boston.
It’s not at all clear that signing Freeman and trading blocked pre-arb players (Dalbec, Casas, Duran) for more appropriate ones is more expensive than the alternative.
Last edited:
Wasn't Votto entirely worth his contract last year? Fangraphs has him at 3.6 WAR. Steamer is only projecting 1.7 this year, not sure why. But I don't think you can count on getting discounts by taking his full contract.
If we’re talking Votto then it’s worth noting that he’s been pretty consistent in saying that he doesn’t want to waive his NTC. Doesn’t hurt to ask, I guess.
Also by all accounts an incredible character guy. Pretty optimal player to build a young team around over the next half-decade.
I think this is right. Votto wants to stay in Cincinnati or he'd have been moved a long time ago, and I think the feeling is mutual. In fact, I think a big reason why the Reds are moving other players for nothing or next to nothing is so they can afford him (in their own minds anyway).
True but he's 38 years old and his two previous seasons combined he accumulated 1.4 WAR over nearly 200 games.
As to the no-trade, Votto's been loyal in the past, but after watching the Reds trade away Winker and Gray following their only remotely successful seasons (2020 and 2021) since 2013, maybe he's changed his mind as he approaches the end of his career.
Not very. Soxprospects says this year is his ETA, like June or so. That plus Dalbec's second half is what makes putting all your eggs in the Freeman basket seem insane and completely counter to their organizational plan. I guess he has enough potential holes in his swing where you could still say "it's just projection" but there just doesn't seem to be a ton of uncertainty there where you would take the risk in blocking him.
It's funny. I was assuming that if we are indeed kicking the tires on Freeman, that we had an offer in hand for JDM. Send him to the NL, and when Casas is ready, he and Freeman split 1B/DH duties.
Of course, that doesn't address the need for a RH hitting OF. It's a little confusing.
Of course, that doesn't address the need for a RH hitting OF. It's a little confusing.
Olson and the Braves reached an eight-year, $168 million contract extension, sources tell ESPN. Olson had two years before becoming a free agent. He turns 28 at the end of this month so the new contract will take him through age 35.
That seems like a really team friendly deal. Maybe now is the time to see what Devers might consider for an extension. I'd be thrilled if he agreed to similar terms through age 35 but I've assumed it would take a lot more dollars.
EDIT: Not sure how the Braves are getting these deals done, but the numbers for Acuna, Albies, and now Olson set up that team to be really good for a long time.
That seems like a really team friendly deal. Maybe now is the time to see what Devers might consider for an extension. I'd be thrilled if he agreed to similar terms through age 35 but I've assumed it would take a lot more dollars.
EDIT: Not sure how the Braves are getting these deals done, but the numbers for Acuna, Albies, and now Olson set up that team to be really good for a long time.
I am in favor of staying the course with the apparent plans at 1B and SS, meaning no big signings there so as to keep the path clear for Casas and Mayer. That said, I believe that this plan is actually the riskier once, since Freeman seems as close to plug-and-play as you’re likely to find in free agency. So when it comes to a scenario where all the eggs are going in one basket, it’s probably the one where we’re counting on an emergence of the youngsters. Again, that’s the plan I prefer for a number of reasons, but I think it’s important to acknowledge the risks.
Heyman is still banging the Freeman-possibly-to-the-Sox drum. This second tweet adds so little to the first (from 5 hours earlier) that I think this "reporting" is agent-driven (as usual from Heyman).
View: https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1503791866248155144
View: https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1503791866248155144
I will never understand the Albies one, but in this case, Olson is from Atlanta, so it makes sense he'd want to lock in there for the long haul.
Which is pretty much what I said yesterday. Been rolling my eyes at Heyman all day.
When was the last time Heyman actually reported something without carrying water for someone? I don't believe the Sox are in on Freeman unless this is Bloom thinking outside the box and possibly moving Casas for an OF or SP. I also don't believe they want JBJ anywhere near a starting position.
Whew! The only explanation for him doubling down is that he knows we are all on to his complete bullshit act.
See here's why I was spitballing bringing in Suzuki and Schwarber. The money for the two combined would be MAYBE 5M per year more than what it takes to get Freemen. Suzuki addresses the RH OF need, Dalbec starts at first and Casas comes up when they think he's ready. Schwarber and Casas give you two left handed power bats and you should be able to find a taker for JDM. Depending on the partner and the return you might have to eat some of the $$$. This also lessens the need for JBJ to be an everyday guy, keeps Duran in AAA and doesn't cost the Sox a single prospect.
View: https://twitter.com/LBPRCinEnglish/status/1503818775187046410
Hernández covers Puerto Rican baseball, and seems decently well sourced.
Rosario is a lefty bat, but he's also a corner outfielder with a career 108 OPS+. Not a terrible Suzuki fallback option.
Hernández covers Puerto Rican baseball, and seems decently well sourced.
Rosario is a lefty bat, but he's also a corner outfielder with a career 108 OPS+. Not a terrible Suzuki fallback option.
Didn’t see posted, but seems like Xander is pretty sure he’s an SS
“Bro. I'm a shortstop, man. That's where I've played my whole career. Obviously it's a position I take a lot of pride in. If you look at my numbers, they've been pretty good for these years. I like being there. That's it."
“Bro. I'm a shortstop, man. That's where I've played my whole career. Obviously it's a position I take a lot of pride in. If you look at my numbers, they've been pretty good for these years. I like being there. That's it."