In a column just posted by Gordon Edes, he says that the Red Sox are a potential suitor for Johnny Cueto.
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/45482
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/45482
E5 Yaz said:
Well, in theory at least, there could be more competition for those FA arms. Some team could always outbid you with "just money," but if you have a deep farm system, you could have a better chance of getting the player you want depending on the other team's needs. In theory, at least; obviously it doesn't always or even usually work this way.j44thor said:This upcoming FA starting pitching class looks to be the strongest in quite some time. Sure some of these guys may not end up hitting FA but there is a virtual certainty that there will be high quality #2 starters available and a strong possibility that multiple "aces" will also reach FA.
Price
Cueto
Zimmerman
Wei-Yin Chen
Mat Latos
Samardzija
Brett Anderson
Mike Leake
Kazmir
Ian Kennedy
There are simply far too many high quality arms becoming available to have it make any sense to trade top 100 prospects for production you can obtain in the off-season for just $$.
jscola85 said:Doug Fister is also a FA and 31 right now. Not having a great year but has been pretty darn good from 2011-2014.
Danny_Darwin said:Well, in theory at least, there could be more competition for those FA arms. Some team could always outbid you with "just money," but if you have a deep farm system, you could have a better chance of getting the player you want depending on the other team's needs. In theory, at least; obviously it doesn't always or even usually work this way.
Also, sometimes the player just doesn't want to play for you, even if you offer a lot of money (not often, but sometimes). And sometimes, the player takes the richest offer and it becomes immediately apparent that the two sides weren't a good match. Good thing that has never happened to the Red Sox!
Also you forgot Greinke.
Lose Remerswaal said:
Greinke can't play in a pressure cooker environment.
j44thor said:Greinke also isn't technically a FA. He has an opt out on his remaining 3yr 71M. He probably gets an extra year tacked on if he opts out but there is some risk, especially in this FA class. LAD may decide to unload the brinks truck for Price instead if he opts out. More likely he opts out only if he has an agreement in principal to return to LAD.
I believe he has some big anxiety disorderehaz said:This "Greinke can't play in a pressure cooker" nonsense/he's a bad fit for Boston schtick is absurd. The guy is probably the smartest pitcher in the game and would most likely pitch well anywhere. We're talking about a guy that knows the ins and outs of xFIP probably better than most people on this board and he's by all accounts a standup competitor and teammate (multi-time gold glover, serious try-hard).
That being said, with the contract he's likely to get at age 32, I would not want Boston to be the team paying top dollar. In an alternate universe, a player like Greinke is exactly who I would like to be heading the Sox rotation. Mental health history and all.
Yes I know. He was 23? And had gone undiagnosed with social anxiety disorder. Now he's on medication and has not had a problem since (that was 06/07?). I don't believe that a lack of public understanding surrounding mental health issues would preclude him from being successful in an environment like NY or Boston. Someone as athletic, smart, and adaptable like Greinke would be a better bet as far as I'm concerned over a clearly declining player (Hamels/Fister) or pitchers with histories of serious arm issues (Cueto/Zimmermann/Latos). In my opinion, the only pitcher better suited is Price.soxhop411 said:I believe he has some big anxiety disorder
Scott Lauber @ScottLauber 3m3 minutes ago
FWIW- hearing Cole Hamels likely wouldn't rule out trade to team that isn't in contention this year. That would seem to keep #RedSox in mix
HriniakPosterChild said:Iwakuma is already 34, and he spent 11 years pitching in NPB before he came to Seattle.
In NPB, I have read it is expected that you throw a few thousand pitches between starts to "show your fighting spirit!"
(Maybe You Gotta Have Wa is out of date.)
soxhop411 said:“@jaysonst: Asked an exec of a team interested in Johnny Cueto if they saw anything to be alarmed about in his start Sunday. He said: "Yes. Everything."”
sackamano said:Greinke is a bad personality fit for Boston, based on a decade old anxiety issue, and we're giving up on Cueto because of one really bad start.
Cracker jack scouting right there.
soxhop411 said:“@jaysonst: Asked an exec of a team interested in Johnny Cueto if they saw anything to be alarmed about in his start Sunday. He said: "Yes. Everything."”
j44thor said:Greinke also isn't technically a FA. He has an opt out on his remaining 3yr 71M. He probably gets an extra year tacked on if he opts out but there is some risk, especially in this FA class. LAD may decide to unload the brinks truck for Price instead if he opts out. More likely he opts out only if he has an agreement in principal to return to LAD.
Well, giving up on is probably strong language. Certainly you don't want to trade for an injured pitcher on a two month rental, especially as his current team won't be giving him away. I'm sure they'll revisit this during the offseason.sackamano said:Greinke is a bad personality fit for Boston, based on a decade old anxiety issue, and we're giving up on Cueto because of one really bad start.
Cracker jack scouting right there.
The issue wasn't that Crawford "couldn't handle the media" and that's why he sucked. Carl just sucked because he sucks. Not like he's doing much better in chill L.A.pdub said:Re: Greinke
I don't want this team going near a player who has even the slightest chance of not being "cut out" for Boston. Carl Crawford--I hate to bring him up--is an example of a guy who faced some doubt prior to the signing. Lo and behold he ended up hating his time here. Greinke is a great pitcher but I just don't feel like rolling the dice. Especially when he's 32 and about to command top dollar.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/13298292/who-trade-cole-hamels-deadline-anyoneUnlike with the Dodgers and Cubs, Hamels has the right to veto a trade to Boston. But we're hearing the Red Sox have been led to believe he'd go there if his $20 million option for 2017 is guaranteed. The issue here, though, is: Why would the Red Sox make this trade?
Their four-game sweeparoo at Anaheim coming out of the break pretty much blew them out of contention. So how logical is it for a team in their situation to be buying, not selling, in July?
Except this isn't a team inclined to think inside any traditional boxes. The Red Sox can't be traditional sellers, because they don't have much to sell. But they've told other clubs they expect to be nontraditional buyers, no matter where they are in the standings, because they see this as a buying opportunity for pieces that could help them long-term -- especially at the top of their rotation.
"If they finish last," said one exec, "that would be three out of four years of last-place finishes. So I can't see them buying to try to get back in it this year. But think of the urgency for next year."
Well, clearly, they're thinking of it. The Red Sox sent one of GM Ben Cherington's most trusted assistants, Allard Baird, to see Hamels' start on Sunday. And the minute Hamels left the game, Baird left the ballpark. So could they have painted a more vivid portrait of what they're shopping for than that?
"I still think the Red Sox have the most pieces to make this deal of anyone," said an NL exec. "But I don't know how aggressive they are. I know that if I didn't have expectations of competing this year, I would not do this. If they wait, they'll have [free-agent] alternatives in the winter. So why take on the risks with a guy like this for the next two or three years, without the upside of him helping you be really good this year?"
Interesting question. But anyone counting out the Red Sox is misreading the tea leaves.
In that same article it doesn't necessarily list the Red Sox as the "favorites " at all. Rival executives say Boston is 1 of 4 destinations most thought of with the Dodgers being the "runaway favorite".soxhop411 said:
Red(s)HawksFan said:You know who benefits keeping the Red Sox name alive in any Hamels rumors? The Phillies. I think all the smoke is coming from them to try to wheedle a better deal out of a more realistic buyer like the Dodgers. The Dodgers (and other contenders) would have a lot more urgency in making a deal than the Red Sox, given the Sox can just back away and decide to wait until November to make a deal or sign a FA.
kieckeredinthehead said:
So Baird just likes cheesesteaks?
glennhoffmania said:First of all he's signed through 2018 and the option is for 2019, not 2017.
Second, and more importantly, why in the world would anyone rather trade valuable assets for Hamels and what could end up being a 4/91.5m deal than give Greinke 5/125m? Is it because Hamels is two months younger? Greinke is the superior pitcher and costs only money. Trading for Hamels would be idiotic at this point.
But this quote is interesting.Red(s)HawksFan said:
Maybe. And maybe he likes to visit various ballparks/games throughout the season, but it's only noteworthy when he goes to Philly because Hamels rumors generate clicks, retweets and listener calls?
So he was clearly there to only see Hamels.Well, clearly, they're thinking of it. The Red Sox sent one of GM Ben Cherington's most trusted assistants, Allard Baird, to see Hamels' start on Sunday. And the minute Hamels left the game, Baird left the ballpark. So could they have painted a more vivid portrait of what they're shopping for than that?
I know this is just some guys opinion filtered through an ESPN article but this is really bad.soxhop411 said:"If they finish last," said one exec, "that would be three out of four years of last-place finishes. So I can't see them buying to try to get back in it this year. But think of the urgency for next year."
jscola85 said:
Because Greinke isn't going anywhere, and he will want/get longer than a 5 year deal. Greinke is very happy in LA and the Dodgers will just top basically any offer on the table. Plus, they're basically the exact same age and have extremely similar career figures. It's nice knowing Greinke has had success in the AL but Hamels has been a big game pitcher for the Phillies in the past too. Just as importantly, this org seems to have a categorical aversion to contracts over 4-5 years, so 4/$92M + prospects (assuming none are true deal-breakers like Betts or Devers) may be better in their eyes than a $200M deal for Greinke (which is what he is likely to get, given the Scherzer comp).
Left unsaid - a billion other scouts were there and no one else on the Phillies is worth scouting.soxhop411 said:But this quote is interesting.
So he was clearly there to only see Hamels.
glennhoffmania said:
I was only referring to previous comments saying that people would be against giving Greinke 5/125 if he opts out. Giving up multiple prospects for the right to pay Hamels a little below market price doesn't sound like a better deal to me.
I mean is there any question that about the only games played in Philly that draw more than a cursory crowd are the ones that he's starting? And that 10% of the crowd is working for the rest of the MLB teams?grimshaw said:Left unsaid - a billion other scouts were there and no one else on the Phillies is worth scouting.
jscola85 said:
I don't necessarily disagree. It's just not a realistic assumption to compare Greinke at 5/$125M because that deal is fantasyland. If the only two options for the org are decent prospects + Hamels for 4/$92M or Greinke at 7/$200M, I think the org goes with Hamels. The key is how well do you trust the org to pick the right prospects to part with. If this were the Schuerholz Braves org of the 90s/aughts, you could feel good they were trading the right guys at the right time.
If that's the case, I think Hamels would be a fine bet. Unfortunately I am not sure it is, as looking at the Peavy deal (our last "prospects for a veteran" trade), giving up Montas and Iglesias appears to have given up two future legit MLB starters for a 4th/5th starter.
glennhoffmania said:
I think another big assumption is that Greinke is going to get Scherzer's deal. Greinke would be signing his deal when he'll be almost two years older than Scherzer was. And the deferrals matter. I wouldn't be shocked if LA gives him that deal but it's not apples to apples with Scherzer.
jscola85 said:
Fair point on the deferrals and age, but as a counterpoint, Greinke is on pace for an even better season than Scherzer. If Lester, an inferior pitcher to both those guys, got 6 years and $155M, I would suspect Greinke will get at least 6 years and something closer to Scherzer's number than Lester's.