Pick 35, or 25, or 31, or 34 and 39, or 38 and 39: Where we certainly will find the future of Celtics Basketball

nighthob

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I hope not, Sasser is a smurf. I’m over the whole Smurfy G experience. If OMP is off the board then Sidy Cissoko might still be there, and he’s a potential JOAT player (and Boston suddenly finds itself in need of one).
 

benhogan

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Honestly I think Brogdon is getting underrated because people only look at last year for his offense when he was asked to be a bench scorer, he was much better as a true PG in IND (a better passer with fewer turnovers than Marcus) and while his defense was not good last year, it wasn't the disaster many make out. When healthy it was just meh, and with better rim protection behind him you can get away wit that.
It's like all those people that independently voted for him as 6th Man of the Year were completely wrong. :rolleyes:

He was that efficient offensive weapon off the bench we spent years pining for.
Can he guard fast wings on the perimeter, nope.
Can he body beefier Wings/Centers down low, yep.
He certainly isn't Kemba post-AS game bad

I'm not an MD, but how serious can the elbow be if he was playing on it? May as well keep him with the thoughts that it will heal.
 

JM3

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If OMP and Jaquez are moving up, someone else has to fall. Guys like Leonard Miller and Kris Murray might be in play. Ben Sheppard is an interesting shooter who would fit. TJD if you're so inclined (I'm less impressed) should be there at 25.

Draft is always a crap shoot.
I'm kind of intrigued by Leonard Miller's upside.

Would like it a lot if he slid, but seems unlikely.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5MuxuXiyBE
 

Jimbodandy

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It's like all those people that independently voted for him as 6th Man of the Year were completely wrong. :rolleyes:

He was that efficient offensive weapon off the bench we spent years pining for.
Can he guard fast wings on the perimeter, nope.
Can he body beefier Wings/Centers down low, yep.
He certainly isn't Kemba post-AS game bad

I'm not an MD, but how serious can the elbow be if he was playing on it? May as well keep him with the thoughts that it will heal.
Clippers are morons. I'm starting to wonder whether Malcolm's people leaked the elbow thing because he likes it here.
 

BigMike

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Honestly I think Brogdon is getting underrated because people only look at last year for his offense when he was asked to be a bench scorer, he was much better as a true PG in IND (a better passer with fewer turnovers than Marcus) and while his defense was not good last year, it wasn't the disaster many make out. When healthy it was just meh, and with better rim protection behind him you can get away wit that.
But Brogdon's value during his Indiana days was a future late first round pick, and a steaming pile of crap.
 

Cellar-Door

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Givony has the Celtics going with Rayan Rupert. 6'6" with a 7'2" wingspan, just turned 19 a few weeks ago but has been a pro since 15.
Projects as a 3 and D wing, but the 3 isn't there yet (32% last year) but good FT shooter (75%+) so projects pretty well.

Here is Givony's writeup of the pick's other options he considered:
“The Celtics could go in any number of directions here, either grabbing a formerly highly touted prospect such as Dariq Whitehead or Brice Sensabaugh sliding due to medical concerns, taking a swing on someone like Julian Phillips, or possibly adding a more veteran piece they hope can plug into the rotation immediately such as Trayce Jackson-Davis,
 

lovegtm

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Honestly I think Brogdon is getting underrated because people only look at last year for his offense when he was asked to be a bench scorer, he was much better as a true PG in IND (a better passer with fewer turnovers than Marcus) and while his defense was not good last year, it wasn't the disaster many make out. When healthy it was just meh, and with better rim protection behind him you can get away wit that.
I think, in general, people have gotten too fixated on perimeter defense as opposed to rim protection. You can get away with a LOT as a guard defender as long as you can stop the "guy backs you down and just shoots over you" cheat code.
 

chilidawg

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“The Celtics could go in any number of directions here, either grabbing a formerly highly touted prospect such as Dariq Whitehead or Brice Sensabaugh sliding due to medical concerns, taking a swing on someone like Julian Phillips, or possibly adding a more veteran piece they hope can plug into the rotation immediately such as Trayce Jackson-Davis,
In other words, I have no fucking idea what they might do.
 

HomeRunBaker

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In other words, I have no fucking idea what they might do.
I expect the pick to be a 4-year player or someone close who can step in for Grant or the 4th guard role replacing Pritchard. I wouldn't expect a stash or a one-and-done project...we aren't in developmental mode with a first rounder capable of earning minutes and helping us win now.
 

Jimbodandy

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I expect the pick to be a 4-year player or someone close who can step in for Grant or the 4th guard role replacing Pritchard. I wouldn't expect a stash or a one-and-done project...we aren't in developmental mode with a first rounder capable of earning minutes and helping us win now.
Agree completely.

I think that 3-year player is the new 4-year player for the most part, but otherwise yeah. NBA body, can contribute in some way now. And that guy's probably a big or a small, because wings that fit that profile don't usually last 3-4 years anymore.
 
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benhogan

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I expect the pick to be a 4-year player or someone close who can step in for Grant or the 4th guard role replacing Pritchard. I wouldn't expect a stash or a one-and-done project...we aren't in developmental mode with a first rounder capable of earning minutes and helping us win now.
exactly, Brad was a Head Coach, he knows how hard it is to develop 19yr old rookies (not named Jay), especially when they are in GFIN mode.

Draft Picks are like new cars, once they leave the lot on draft night they lose some value. Wouldn't be shocked if Brad makes another move
 

Cellar-Door

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I expect the pick to be a 4-year player or someone close who can step in for Grant or the 4th guard role replacing Pritchard. I wouldn't expect a stash or a one-and-done project...we aren't in developmental mode with a first rounder capable of earning minutes and helping us win now.
I would guess it will depend on what's there and Brad will be flexible, if you don't see a guy you think is better than Hauser or a vet minimum guy, then you can swing for upside because you need impact on cheap deals in 2 years more than you need it now.

Assuming no Brogdon trade, your playoff rotation looks like:
TL
Horford
Porzingis
Tatum
Brown
Brogdon
White

Those are your 7 locks. Maybe 1-2 more will play.

For wings you have Hauser on the roster, for guards you have Pritchard. For other options you have vet minimums, and you have Grant S&T (or Grant but I doubt that).

There is a chance there to draft for long term, use Grant to add a player and maybe move Pritchard for a more ready now option. As an example, you might use Grant and some draft capital to get Delon Wright or Monte Morris, while moving Pritchard for Rudy Gay and a 2nd.
 

jmanny24

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There hasn't been a lot of talk about him but what about Brandin Podziemski from Santa Clara?
 

RedOctober3829

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I expect the pick to be a 4-year player or someone close who can step in for Grant or the 4th guard role replacing Pritchard. I wouldn't expect a stash or a one-and-done project...we aren't in developmental mode with a first rounder capable of earning minutes and helping us win now.
Take a big swing with all the future picks still in our grasp and go up in the draft for Jordan Hawkins. They need more knockdown shooting and he's the guy.
 

nighthob

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Stupid question: will Boston make the pick tonight or will Memphis “make the pick for Boston”? I assume it is the latter.
I'm guessing that this is a summer trade (new league calendar year) and that the Grizz make the selection for Boston as a result. If OMP goes to Houston at #20, though, it might mean that Gran't heading to Rocketland to be a voice of sanity in that locker room (and as a Rockets fan I find that thought terrifying).
 

chilidawg

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Lazy vs Crazy

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Such as? Who are the options you think could be had?
The guard salary matches for Brogdon are pretty dire. Terry Rozier? Mike Conley? Spencer Dinwiddie?

Lonzo Ball would be perfect if he still had a working knee, but alas.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I would guess it will depend on what's there and Brad will be flexible, if you don't see a guy you think is better than Hauser or a vet minimum guy, then you can swing for upside because you need impact on cheap deals in 2 years more than you need it now.
That would surprise me as we are concerned with adding depth on a cheap deal to contribute to winning. An upside guy isn't going to have an opportunity to play and grow here as he would on a lottery team. That would seem to be a waste of a guaranteed salary to me.
 

nighthob

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That would surprise me as we are concerned with adding depth on a cheap deal to contribute to winning. An upside guy isn't going to have an opportunity to play and grow here as he would on a lottery team. That would seem to be a waste of a guaranteed salary to me.
Unless it's Dariq Whitehead. If he's healthy he's good enough to log regular season minutes.
 

Cellar-Door

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That would surprise me as we are concerned with adding depth on a cheap deal to contribute to winning. An upside guy isn't going to have an opportunity to play and grow here as he would on a lottery team. That would seem to be a waste of a guaranteed salary to me.
So to me I think it depends on how they rate the guys available, and what they plan for other moves.
While yes a project might not get much time this year, the can G-League etc. and to be honest, depending on other moves, I think many of the more "ready now" guys won't crack the rotation either.
The Celtics' cap sheet beyond 2 years right now is:
Tatum PO
TL

Now they likely offer Brown the designated extension and he signs it, and the plan is likely to offer Tatum one in the next 12 months or so.
But that puts you in a spot where you have a lot of the cap tied up in 3 guys
If you extend Porzingis now it's 4 guys taking up a ton of cap, you will need rookie deal guys ready to play real minutes that year, and you don't want it to be actual rookies, so this year and next are your spots to take at least 1 shot on a guy you think could be a legit starter in 2 years. Next year's draft is generally viewed as.... bad. So maybe they get there and say... "I think this guy can be an above average starter in 2 years, while this other guy can compete for the 9th/10th man now, but is never more than an end of the rotation guy" and pick the guy with the upside.
 

chilidawg

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Now they likely offer Brown the designated extension and he signs it, and the plan is likely to offer Tatum one in the next 12 months or so.
But that puts you in a spot where you have a lot of the cap tied up in 3 guys
If you extend Porzingis now it's 4 guys taking up a ton of cap, you will need rookie deal guys ready to play real minutes that year, and you don't want it to be actual rookies, so this year and next are your spots to take at least 1 shot on a guy you think could be a legit starter in 2 years. Next year's draft is generally viewed as.... bad. So maybe they get there and say... "I think this guy can be an above average starter in 2 years, while this other guy can compete for the 9th/10th man now, but is never more than an end of the rotation guy" and pick the guy with the upside.
This makes a lot of sense to me.
 

nighthob

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Now they likely offer Brown the designated extension and he signs it, and the plan is likely to offer Tatum one in the next 12 months or so.
But that puts you in a spot where you have a lot of the cap tied up in 3 guys
If you extend Porzingis now it's 4 guys taking up a ton of cap, you will need rookie deal guys ready to play real minutes that year, and you don't want it to be actual rookies, so this year and next are your spots to take at least 1 shot on a guy you think could be a legit starter in 2 years. Next year's draft is generally viewed as.... bad. So maybe they get there and say... "I think this guy can be an above average starter in 2 years, while this other guy can compete for the 9th/10th man now, but is never more than an end of the rotation guy" and pick the guy with the upside.
This, I think, is likely. The high school class of '22 was really good, leading to this being an unusually good draft. So taking a flier on someone with future starting potential wouldn''t be the worst result. Especially a G with Cassell's reputation for working with guards.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Unless it's Dariq Whitehead. If he's healthy he's good enough to log regular season minutes.
Yes completely agree. I specifically mentioned him about a month ago as this years Spencer Dinwiddie who slides due to an injury.
 

HomeRunBaker

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So to me I think it depends on how they rate the guys available, and what they plan for other moves.
While yes a project might not get much time this year, the can G-League etc. and to be honest, depending on other moves, I think many of the more "ready now" guys won't crack the rotation either.
The Celtics' cap sheet beyond 2 years right now is:
Tatum PO
TL

Now they likely offer Brown the designated extension and he signs it, and the plan is likely to offer Tatum one in the next 12 months or so.
But that puts you in a spot where you have a lot of the cap tied up in 3 guys
If you extend Porzingis now it's 4 guys taking up a ton of cap, you will need rookie deal guys ready to play real minutes that year, and you don't want it to be actual rookies, so this year and next are your spots to take at least 1 shot on a guy you think could be a legit starter in 2 years. Next year's draft is generally viewed as.... bad. So maybe they get there and say... "I think this guy can be an above average starter in 2 years, while this other guy can compete for the 9th/10th man now, but is never more than an end of the rotation guy" and pick the guy with the upside.
We'll see but I disagree that the vision right now is for 4-5 years down the road and not looking to add rookie contract depth for the reasons you actually mention over the next several sessons. It wasn't an accident that we added late Day One picks each of the next two years. These are where the plug and play role players are often found.
 

nighthob

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Yes completely agree. I specifically mentioned him about a month ago as this years Spencer Dinwiddie who slides due to an injury.
He's at the top of my wish list at the moment, 6'6" 220 and looks like he can carry more without losing athleticism. And enough game that if I squint I can see him as Jaylen insurance if the owners decide that a $200 million payroll is too rich for their blood.
 

benhogan

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TJD put up better numbers his Freshman year than a lot of these 1 & dones. You're getting 3 years of IU development for free.

Gradey Dick sporting an interesting costume
 

Cellar-Door

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So ESPN locked their mock in a half hour before the draft, they switched us to Sensabaugh.

Have to admit I haven't watched that much of him, but all the scouting reports read like all the things I like least in a player... 2 mensicus injuries, poor defender, poor passer, low basketball IQ, but gets those midrange buckets.
 

mikeford

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we traded down like 400 times to end up with Walsh and a million 2nd rounders

are 2nd rounders worth something in the NBA all of a sudden? why on earth would you do this?
 

lovegtm

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So maybe they get there and say... "I think this guy can be an above average starter in 2 years, while this other guy can compete for the 9th/10th man now, but is never more than an end of the rotation guy" and pick the guy with the upside.
You nailed that one pretty hard; congrats.

we traded down like 400 times to end up with Walsh and a million 2nd rounders

are 2nd rounders worth something in the NBA all of a sudden? why on earth would you do this?
2nd rounders are great for greasing the wheels in trades where a 1st would be too much to give up (not just because of the higher upside, but also because of Stepien).

An example given here was doing a S&T for Grant and getting a decent roleplayer back. That might require the Celtics sending a pick to get it done, but a 1st would be way too much to pay. The Cs were completely out of 2nds forever, so they needed to restock for future dealing.

Walsh is a decent upside play, so combine that with the 4 2nds for making future moves, and Brad really nailed it imo.
 

mikeford

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2nd rounders are great for greasing the wheels in trades where a 1st would be too much to give up (not just because of the higher upside, but also because of Stepien).

An example given here was doing a S&T for Grant and getting a decent roleplayer back. That might require the Celtics sending a pick to get it done, but a 1st would be way too much to pay. The Cs were completely out of 2nds forever, so they needed to restock for future dealing.

Walsh is a decent upside play, so combine that with the 4 2nds for making future moves, and Brad really nailed it imo.
Fair enough, thank you.
 

lovegtm

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Here’s the full accounting of our second round picks acquired last night:

View: https://twitter.com/ChrisForsberg_/status/1672204084386967552?s=20
The Washington one on its own could probably be turned into another 3-4 2nds, since the Wizards will be tanking like crazy to avoid conveying their (top-10 protected) 2025 pick and to get draft position.

The 2026 one has a lot of outs to be good as well.

Great job by Brad on completely restocking the 2nds cupboard.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Those are much better 2nds than I had feared----none are 'fake' and there's some level of upside on each.

Given Celtics are likely to deal several of those, and if they pick will want a single player per year, it's a nice haul
 

JakeRae

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Here’s the full accounting of our second round picks acquired last night:

View: https://twitter.com/ChrisForsberg_/status/1672204084386967552?s=20
This is a very good list of seconds. The 2025 and 2026 picks are likely in the 30s and overall there’s a decent chance none of these are in the 50s. It’s very easy to see why we pulled the trigger on each of the trades last night given the returns we were getting each time. While some speculated at least the first trade might have been driven by cap management considerations, it seems like we just kept getting offers that were too good to say no to, except maybe the trade of 39 for a future second which I assume was in part about our plan being to add one player, not two, in this draft.
 

AB in DC

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Yeah I saw mention of that in the thread but I didn't follow where that came from. Would they not have had the MLE if they kept the 35 instead of trading up to 25 temporarily?
 

Cellar-Door

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Yeah I saw mention of that in the thread but I didn't follow where that came from. Would they not have had the MLE if they kept the 35 instead of trading up to 25 temporarily?
yeah you're correct, they gave up the ability to easily get the MLE with the move up, got it back with the move down, might give it away again in a trade down the line.