Pick 35, or 25, or 31, or 34 and 39, or 38 and 39: Where we certainly will find the future of Celtics Basketball

chilidawg

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A place for all things NBA 2nd round. Who's out there that you like and think might be available?

Tankathon 31-40:
Jalen Wilson
Cidy Sissoko
Trace Jackson-Davis
Jaime Jaquez Jr.
Brandon Podziemski
Julian Phillips
DaRon Holmes
Kobe Brown
Terquavion Smith
Julian Strawther
 

nighthob

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I like Strawther more than Podziemski. Julian Phillips, too. If Boston has to choose between the Julians I'm leaning Strawther, though Phillips has more upside. I'm actively praying that the foot injury causes Whitehead to float to Boston.
 

chilidawg

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Trace Jackson-Davis please, but doubt he gets to 35.
TJD is an interesting one, very productive player, can score, rebound pass and block shots. When I watched IU in the NCAA's though I thought that's the most slothful looking productive player I've seen. Maybe that energy goes way up in a reduced role.

Vecenie has a good rundown from the combine, which has become more of a 2nd round showcase with all the top players opting out. Olivier-Maxcence Prosper and Ben Sheppard are the two he highlighted as having the best showings, but I know nothing of either.

https://theathletic.com/4536345/2023/05/23/nba-draft-combine-takeaways-olivier-maxence-prosper/

I loved Sanogo in the tournament, just seemed like a guy who did everything right. Vecenie had this to say about him "There is some short-area quickness there, and he communicates extremely well and calls out coverages for his guards. He’s also incredibly physical and strong. He’s not a Drew Timme or Oscar Tshiebwe type who has no chance to defend at the NBA level." And also "Beyond that, Sanogo is kind of a butt-kicker on the inside. There’s not another way to phrase it. He’s tougher and more physical than you. He came in at just 6-7 1/4 without shoes, but he has an enormous near-7-3 wingspan and a 9-0 1/2 standing reach that will allow him to play center.
 

benhogan

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TJD is an interesting one, very productive player, can score, rebound pass and block shots. When I watched IU in the NCAA's though I thought that's the most slothful looking productive player I've seen. Maybe that energy goes way up in a reduced role.

Vecenie has a good rundown from the combine, which has become more of a 2nd round showcase with all the top players opting out. Olivier-Maxcence Prosper and Ben Sheppard are the two he highlighted as having the best showings, but I know nothing of either.

https://theathletic.com/4536345/2023/05/23/nba-draft-combine-takeaways-olivier-maxence-prosper/

I loved Sanogo in the tournament, just seemed like a guy who did everything right. Vecenie had this to say about him "There is some short-area quickness there, and he communicates extremely well and calls out coverages for his guards. He’s also incredibly physical and strong. He’s not a Drew Timme or Oscar Tshiebwe type who has no chance to defend at the NBA level." And also "Beyond that, Sanogo is kind of a butt-kicker on the inside. There’s not another way to phrase it. He’s tougher and more physical than you. He came in at just 6-7 1/4 without shoes, but he has an enormous near-7-3 wingspan and a 9-0 1/2 standing reach that will allow him to play center.
I imagine Brad has a ton of "motor, off the court, attitude, etc" intelligence on TJD with all of his Indiana connections.

My bias for 2nd rounders is high-floor, decorated upperclassmen, that can potentially play an immediate bench role. The new CBA and Double Super MAX Jays will make filling out the bench via 2nds/G-League grads important.

The Celtics can play the development game with their overseas lottery tickets
 

chilidawg

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Vecenie's pre combine Mock had everyone's favorite Bobi Klintman at 35. I'm in: "The 20-year-old Klintman is a still-developing prospect. As you just read, he knows that. He doesn’t have the kind of body of work most NBA prospects do at this stage for a potential top-40 pick. He averaged five points and four rebounds per game over the entirety of last season. But most players don’t possess the tools Klintman does. At 6-foot-10, he has legitimate guard skills. He can grab and go on the break and lead the offense. His feel for the game is outstanding. At youth levels in Sweden, including in last summer’s U20 European Championships, he showcased high-level passing ability, averaging 5.1 assists per game. He hit 36 percent of his 3s in his freshman season at Wake. The idea of Klintman is everything NBA teams are looking for in a future-facing prospect.

https://theathletic.com/4382121/2023/04/06/bobi-klintman-nba-draft/
 

Cellar-Door

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I was keeping an eye on Bilal Coulibaly, but looks like he's rising into the mid-late 1st.

I'm intrigued by Tristan Vukčević if they aren't looking for impact this year (I assume they aren't), great shooting big, needs to get stronger and defend better but 20 and can stay at Partizan.

Prosper has some Jae Crowder vibes.
 

benhogan

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https://theathletic.com/4536345/2023/05/23/nba-draft-combine-takeaways-olivier-maxence-prosper/

I loved Sanogo in the tournament, just seemed like a guy who did everything right. Vecenie had this to say about him "There is some short-area quickness there, and he communicates extremely well and calls out coverages for his guards. He’s also incredibly physical and strong. He’s not a Drew Timme or Oscar Tshiebwe type who has no chance to defend at the NBA level." And also "Beyond that, Sanogo is kind of a butt-kicker on the inside. There’s not another way to phrase it. He’s tougher and more physical than you. He came in at just 6-7 1/4 without shoes, but he has an enormous near-7-3 wingspan and a 9-0 1/2 standing reach that will allow him to play center.
agreed, Sanogo would also be very attractive as a 2nd/Undrafted rookie FA (if he tells teams to go away)
 

RedOctober3829

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Adama Sanogo would be a nice pickup as a bench big. He's started to step out and hit the 3 so that's a good sign. He'll come in, work his ass off, and be a good teammate. Great footwork and instincts in the post that allow him to get position to score easier than he probably should.

Jaime Jacquez would be a do-everything guard that I could get behind.
 

SteveF

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Klintman is almost certainly going in the first round. He pulled out of the combine which is often an indication of some team promising to take him in exchange for not doing workouts/releasing medicals.

It's a pretty deep draft and there will probably be multiple future NBA rotation players on the board at 35. Hopefully the Celtics are lucky enough to snag one.

This list almost certainly means nothing, but it's content for the mill:

The known list of players to have worked out with the Celtics: (According to USA Today, as of June 8th)
  • Kao Akobundu-Ehiogu, Memphis
  • Charles Bediako, Alabama
  • Leaky Black, North Carolina
  • Branden Carlson, Utah
  • Johnell Davis, FAU
  • Demarcus Demonia, Texas A&M-Commerce
  • RayJ Dennis, Toledo
  • Tosan Evbuomwan, Princeton
  • Jaylen Forbes, Tulane
  • Enrique Freeman, Akron
  • Alex Fudge, Florida
  • Taylor Funk, Utah State
  • Patrick Gardner, Marist+
  • Jazian Gortman, Overtime Elite
  • Sam Griesel, Nebraska
  • Coleman Hawkins, Illinois
  • Andre Jackson Jr., UConn
  • Trayce Jackson-Davis, Indiana
  • Dillon Jones, Weber State
  • Taevion Kinsey, Marshall
  • Chris Livingston, Kentucky
  • Alijah Martin, FAU
  • Isaiah Miranda, NC State
  • Omari Moore, San Jose State
  • Justyn Mutts, Virginia Tech+
  • Landers Nolley II, Cincinnati
  • Norchad Omier, Miami (Fla.)
  • Clifford Omoruyi, Rutgers
  • Drew Peterson, USC
  • Craig Porter Jr., Wichita State
  • Justin Powell, Washington State
  • Jalen Slawson, Furman
  • Terrence Shannon Jr., Illinois
  • Mike Sharavjamts, Dayton
  • Jamal Shead, Houston
  • Jake Stephens, Chattanooga
  • Oscar Tshiebwe, Kentucky
  • Vincent Valerio-Bodon, Sopron KC (Hungary)
  • Jordan Walker, UAB
  • Jordan Walsh, Arkansas
 
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TripleOT

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Isaiah Miranda is an interesting prospect, a 19 year old 7 foot beanpole with guard skills, who grew up 50 minutes south of TD Garden in Pawtucket RI. He was supposed to prep a year in CA, but ended up at NC State as a redshirt, with the coaches there claiming he wasn’t physically ready for ACC basketball. Probably a stretch at 35, but tremendous potential with proper strength and conditioning work. Good vertical for a 7’1” player, a dunking machine who can shoot the three with touch.
 
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chilidawg

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Givony's latest ESPN Mock:
31 Jacquez jr.
32 Jackson jr.
33 Jackson II
34 Phillips
35 Vukcevic
36 Sheppard
37 Saser
38 TJD
39 Walsh
40 Cissoko

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/37757403/2023-nba-mock-draft-post-combine-pro-day-impacts-draft-class

Tankathon:
31TJD
32 Jaquez Jr.
33 Cissoko
34 Jackson Jr.
35 Sasser
36 OM Prosper
37 Klintman
38 Jalen Wilson
39 T Smith
40 Strawther

A lot of the same names. ESPN has OMP going in the first, Klintman and Vukcevic lower. Sasser doesn't seem to make sense for the C's, but Klintman, OMP, and Vukcevic seem like fits. TJD might be the readiest to contribute.
 

benhogan

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Isaiah Miranda is an interesting prospect, a 19 year old 7 foot beanpole with guard skills, who grew up 50 minutes south of TD Garden in Pawtucket RI. He was supposed to prep a year in CA, but ended up at NC State as a redshirt, with the coaches there claiming he wasn’t physically ready for ACC basketball. Probably a stretch at 35, but tremendous potential with proper strength and conditioning work. Good vertical for a 7’1” player, a dunking machine who can shoot the three with touch.
no projects please unless they plan on living in Europe for a few years
 

PedrosRedGlove

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Kobe Brown looks interesting. Some similarities to Grant Williams: measurables and SEC production, Brown was 1st team All-SEC and SEC Scholar-Athlete of the Year this year. His junior & senior numbers are very comparable to what Grant did at Tennessee.

It seems like he might have more skill than Grant though, and especially intriguing is his 3 point improvement this year. He was under a 25% shooter his first 3 seasons at Missouri, then this year he shot .455 (51/112) on 3.3 attempts/game.

If that's at all real there's some upside, and he's a 23 year old senior and looks to fit the high floor, polished product criteria as well.
 

TripleOT

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no projects please unless they plan on living in Europe for a few years
It’s doubtful that the Cs will be able to select a rotation ready rookie at 35, so taking a prospect with a high ceiling makes more sense to me than taking a player who might some day crack the back half of the rotation. It seems that Boston has that philosophy, with JDD and French JB. Since they already have a project PG and a project wing, a project big makes sense.
 

CreedBratton

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As a Gonzaga fan, I want them to take Strawther, who I actually think should be rated a little bit higher, just like Nembhard last year. Could be another steal.
 

BaseballJones

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How about Andre Jackson? Great size, elite athleticism, quality ball-handling and playmaking. He doesn't shoot well, but man the guy can lead a team and defend anything from 1-4.
 

bosockboy

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Kobe Brown looks interesting. Some similarities to Grant Williams: measurables and SEC production, Brown was 1st team All-SEC and SEC Scholar-Athlete of the Year this year. His junior & senior numbers are very comparable to what Grant did at Tennessee.

It seems like he might have more skill than Grant though, and especially intriguing is his 3 point improvement this year. He was under a 25% shooter his first 3 seasons at Missouri, then this year he shot .455 (51/112) on 3.3 attempts/game.

If that's at all real there's some upside, and he's a 23 year old senior and looks to fit the high floor, polished product criteria as well.
I’m a Mizzou guy and would love this, great kid. His jumper is a set shot which may not translate the best.
 

TripleOT

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Only a handful of players picked 35 and after the last four drafts could even sniff the Celtics rotation: Herb Jones, Dosunmu, Livers, Jaylin Williams, Tillman, KMart Jr., Gafford, THT, Terance Mann, Jalen McDaniels. It will be a miracle if Brad can find a contributor at 35 this summer.

Odds are they will pick a project with great upside. They may want to bring Begarin over this year, and could use some young energy as their 11th man.
 

benhogan

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It’s doubtful that the Cs will be able to select a rotation ready rookie at 35, so taking a prospect with a high ceiling makes more sense to me than taking a player who might some day crack the back half of the rotation. It seems that Boston has that philosophy, with JDD and French JB. Since they already have a project PG and a project wing, a project big makes sense.
the Celtics have had a little more recent success selecting so-called "higher floor" picks than "higher ceiling" projects, so I'm not going to pretend to know their philosophy at #35
 

Cellar-Door

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I think there is likely some real CBA related upside to drafting a stash here if they like one. Next year's roster is pretty full, but they'll be gutting it in 2-3 years to stay under the apron and that's when bringing in a high 2nd talent who has been developing overseas at a high 2nd salary would be great
 

Auger34

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I think there is likely some real CBA related upside to drafting a stash here if they like one. Next year's roster is pretty full, but they'll be gutting it in 2-3 years to stay under the apron and that's when bringing in a high 2nd talent who has been developing overseas at a high 2nd salary would be great
At 35, I think the only player that fits the “stash” description is Vukcevic
 

benhogan

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I think there is likely some real CBA related upside to drafting a stash here if they like one. Next year's roster is pretty full, but they'll be gutting it in 2-3 years to stay under the apron and that's when bringing in a high 2nd talent who has been developing overseas at a high 2nd salary would be great
Europe is a good place for young prospects.

I also wouldn't be shocked to see a 14-man roster with more experienced players on 3-ways.
 

bakahump

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3 ways only work in college. These men are professionals. Brad will have to get freakier then 3 ways if he plans on bringing in talent.
 

benhogan

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Jay King weighs in. The Athletic is a very worthwhile subscription for those on the fence.

https://theathletic.com/4591105/2023/06/08/celtics-2023-nba-draft-pick-35/?source=dailyemail&campaign=601983


Jordan Walsh: 6-foot-6 forward, Arkansas
Walsh just works. His energy stands out. He can get too eager (he fouled out of eight games) but his intentions are pure. He accepts the challenge of defending. Even when a ballhandler beats him, Walsh regularly hustles his way back into the play — and he sometimes finishes it with a block from behind. His rearview contests occasionally have shades of Derrick White. As Celtics fans know, that’s high praise. Especially for a 19-year-old with a 7-foot-2 wingspan, Walsh plays with an unusual motor. He needs to add more strength but he’s tough and young with a solid frame already. He projects to be the type of versatile defender every team wants.

Jaime Jaquez Jr.: 6-foot-6 forward, UCLA
Jaquez Jr. hasn’t ever been a steady outside shooter. He’s not the quickest defender. He’s 22 and has a bunch of qualities that often make NBA teams say, “Pass.”

UCLA still won all sorts of big games over the past three seasons largely because Jaquez Jr. consistently played winning basketball at both ends of the court. He handled the ball in pick-and-rolls, defended all sorts of opponents and rebounded. Not many big wings can be trusted to run isolations at one end of the court while guarding up at the other, but Jaquez Jr. managed to do so at UCLA, showing off two-way versatility that helped make him one of the nation’s best players over the last three seasons. His intelligence at both ends helped define his team

Brandin Podziemski: 6-foot-4 guard, Santa Clara
After barely playing at Illinois as a freshman, Podziemski transferred and immediately emerged as one of the nation’s most productive players. Not many guys can combine the volume and efficiency he did as a sophomore at Santa Clara. While averaging 19.9 points per game and handling many of the creating responsibilities, he shot 51.3 percent on 2-pointers, 43.8 percent on 3-pointers and 77.1 percent from the free-throw line.

Podziemski displayed great touch, feel and a complete offensive repertoire. He can thrive in the post, where he can score and facilitate, and in transition, where he made a killing in college. Especially if he’s able to add more 3-point versatility (both off the bounce and off movement), it’s easy to see how he should help an offense at the NBA level. He gives off some Luke Kennard vibes, right down to the dominant high school numbers.

Jalen Pickett: 6-foot-2 guard, Penn State
I almost put Jalen Clark in this spot, but this list is too heavy on UCLA players already. His defense could make some team happy, though.

Anyway, Pickett became one of my favorite players to watch last season after transferring to Penn State. He might have the funkiest game of any draft prospect. He’s a point guard who lives in the post, a penetrator who plays with his back to the basket, a crafty dude who probably leaves defenders confused about why they can’t stop him.

Will Pickett’s unique game translate to the NBA? I’m not sure. Pickett is old for a prospect and he’s not the best athlete. Though he shot the 3-pointer well this past season, he did so on low volume and doesn’t have a long track record of sinking outside shots (he made 35.5 percent of 3-point attempts throughout his college career). There are reasons why Vecenie’s latest mock draft projected the 23-year-old Pickett to go undrafted. He is far from conventional and inverts the point guard position. It’s possible he won’t find the right fit for his weird game.

It could take a creative coach to unlock Pickett, but he had a huge season at Penn State. He handed out a ton of assists without turning the ball over much. He averaged 17.7 points per game, 7.4 rebounds per game and 6.6 assists per game on efficient shooting percentages from inside and outside the arc. He has decent size and length for a point guard and a long history of making smart decisions with the ball. I might be going to “Moneyball” here, hollering about how the sidearmed pitcher can mow down people, but Penn State had one of the most potent offenses in the nation last season with the ball in Pickett’s hands much of the time.
 

HomeRunBaker

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With this teams rotation projected to be veteran-laden there won't be much opportunity for a rookie to compete for minutes. My play would be to move our pick and an asset into the low 1st to a contender who doesn't want to be bound to rookie on a GTD multi-year deal.....

for the purpose of drafting Dariq Whitehead and his broken foot out of Duke. Spend the year rehabbing and recovering with the hopes of having a healthy borderline lottery pick long term. You've got the Duke connections w Pagliuca so we will have more info than anyone into this player so that's my hope.
 
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PedroKsBambino

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I like that plan---I believe Celtics have misplayed a bunch of similar picks by 1) worrying about near-term roster spots (reality is there hasn't been a year where there aren't several fungible guys at end of bench) or 2) aiming for role/quick contribution instead of taking big shots (the Carsen Edwards problem).

So I'm all for a Whitehead-like move, or a shot at another higher upside guy. I get that Grant worked out, but overall they haven't taken enough shots at a real impact guy....and of course, those will likely fail but it's worth trying given roster, PT situation, and looming CBA limitations. I believe the rotation depth guys people envision are also available as FAs (and not just to Miami Heat!) and would try to get them that way.
 

chilidawg

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I like the sound of Walsh over the others in the Athletic article, but I'm a sucker for length and athleticism. Whitehead makes sense also. I think there's room at the back of the roster or 2 ways for a development guy or two, and I think that strategy is a good one for long term success.

If a guy like TJD drops and they think he's a contributor soon I'm down with that too. Depth up front and at the big wing are our biggest needs imo.
 

Cellar-Door

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I like that plan---I believe Celtics have misplayed a bunch of similar picks by 1) worrying about near-term roster spots (reality is there hasn't been a year where there aren't several fungible guys at end of bench) or 2) aiming for role/quick contribution instead of taking big shots (the Carsen Edwards problem).

So I'm all for a Whitehead-like move, or a shot at another higher upside guy. I get that Grant worked out, but overall they haven't taken enough shots at a real impact guy....and of course, those will likely fail but it's worth trying given roster, PT situation, and looming CBA limitations. I believe the rotation depth guys people envision are also available as FAs (and not just to Miami Heat!) and would try to get them that way.
Celtics haven't really had many early 2nds. Edwards was really the only recent one, and one of the reasons for "possibly ready now" was that they had some unsettled tax issues with Al and Kyrie FAs
 

PedroKsBambino

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Yeah, I mean overall---dumping the "Bane" pick, Madar, Grant (which worked, to be clear), PP etc.
 

Cellar-Door

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Yeah, I mean overall---dumping the "Bane" pick, Madar, Grant (which worked, to be clear), PP etc.
yeah, some misfires there, but a lot of those were about $. I find it hard to criticize moves made in the late 1st or early 2nd that are made solely to accomodate ownership's tax level comfort. That's the price you pay for Tatum/Brown/Kemba/Hayward, and all the other big contracts over the years. I think one just needs to look at the drafts of some of the similar teams (LAC, GSW, MIL, etc.) to see how being a very good team around or over the tax impacts your drafts.
 

chilidawg

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The Ringer (KOC) has a nice mock draft page with a little more scouting depth than the others, https://nbadraft.theringer.com/mock-draft. Lots of long wings with defensive chops and questionable offensive games in the early 2nd range, Lewis, Rupert, Jackson Jr., Cissoko, Walsh. Nnaji may drop as well if they want to go big projects. Vukcevic has great offensive potential but I'm getting a can't defend in the NBA vibe.

Jaquez Jr. is the current mock at 35, ready to contribute multi skilled guy who needs to up his perimeter game to really succeed in the NBA.
 

nighthob

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I like Jacquez, just not for Boston. They have enough three point challenged players with broad games. What they need, desperately, is guys that can shoot treys reliably. If they were going in that direction I’d a thousand times prefer someone like Jordan Walsh, who due to age could still turn into a decent shooter.
 

PedroKsBambino

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How about Andre Jackson? Great size, elite athleticism, quality ball-handling and playmaking. He doesn't shoot well, but man the guy can lead a team and defend anything from 1-4.
Reading draft profiles, I'm curious what those who watched enough college hoops to have a view make of Andre Jackson. I just didn't watch any this past year, and so I feel lost in the draft!

Profile-wise, he's pretty unique and I'm intrigued but this is a case where you really would like the eye-test as well. There's no-shoot guys who have had impact in NBA for sure, though as Hollinger notes today there's very few who were this extreme a 'no-shoot' guy in college as well.

Anyone have a guess on whether he can cut it in NBA?
 

tbrown_01923

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I don't even know where to start with his form... its awful to look at. I am no shot doctor, I don't know how correctable it is, but the load, the legs, the release. I don't like any of it (and neither does the ball).

But the rest of his game is interesting. The transition play, the athleticism, the defense. Is he long enough and strong enough to guard at the 4? Could he be some version of Shawn Marion? Or how much of Shawn does he need to be to be able to contribute positively on the court...
 

Havlicheck

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I don't even know where to start with his form... its awful to look at. I am no shot doctor, I don't know how correctable it is, but the load, the legs, the release. I don't like any of it (and neither does the ball).

But the rest of his game is interesting. The transition play, the athleticism, the defense. Is he long enough and strong enough to guard at the 4? Could he be some version of Shawn Marion? Or how much of Shawn does he need to be to be able to contribute positively on the court...
Marion shot @ 48% from the field, 84% from the free throw line, 33% from 3 for his career. His shot looked awful but it tended to go in. He was always a credible scorer college and pro, regardless of how bad the shot looked.
 

tbrown_01923

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Marion shot @ 48% from the field, 84% from the free throw line, 33% from 3 for his career. His shot looked awful but it tended to go in. He was always a credible scorer college and pro, regardless of how bad the shot looked.
Let's not overstate Sawn's offensive impact. Marion's career 3pt percentage is perfectly Marcus Smart-ish - but at half of Smarts attempts. Given how much stress Smart shooting has caused, i wonder what folks would have said if Shawn upped his attempts (yeah, it was a different game then). Andre Jackson shoots free throws at 70%, threes at 29% over his career (not a ton of volume). He shoots 2's at 52% an combined 43% from the field. None of that is great and is a far away from what Shawn was able to reach as a pro.

The real value Marion brought was almost all on "D" and in transition. How much of that can Andre provide? How much would he need to provide to be able to see the court?
 

Cellar-Door

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Jackson doesn't seem like he should be comped to Marion, who was a good offensive player in college who couldn't (and didn't) shoot 3s. Jackson is a non-factor in college. He was 11th on his own team in FGA/40, he took 42% of his shots from 3 and stunk at it, he didn't consistently get to the line. Now could he become a completely different player in the pros.... sure, but that profile reads more as "guy who never plays a second on NBA basketball" than "comparisons to former top 10 picks.


Maybe you hope he's Lu Dort? Though even Dort had much better volume and aggressiveness in college.