Payton Pritchard: Season Savior

chilidawg

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 22, 2015
6,401
Cultural hub of the universe
Pritchard seems to be hoping to have a more substantial role on the team after this season. So, he wants to stay for this season (a ring would be nice), but next season he wants playing time, which makes sense given that he would be in RFA in the summer of 2024 and wants to get paid. My working assumption is that he is part of a trade package either at the deadline or in the offseason regardless of his comments.
I just don't get how you'd assume you know what motivates PP. Are you buds and he's told you he wants to "get paid"? There's a very real chance that he's just a highly motivated and competitive guy who wants to play a bigger role, because that's what he's spent most of his life trying to become.

Maybe most guys just want to get paid, but let's not assume we know what motivates individuals.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
31,741
PP wants to see how far he can go in the NBA. Pretty natural given all of the work he put in. The full segment is below:

yeah obviously after I'm done here like up this year I like to you know look be part of a bigger role a little bit (um) (you should want that) yeah I definitely do (um) it's obviously what I work for and (um) I think that's what Brad and them know too we've had a discussion but
(um) you know bigger role (um) I want to be part of a winning culture but I want to also really help that (you know really I'm trying to think) like be a big piece of that. I'm not saying it's the best player on the team or anything but I want . . . I don't know what my future could hold unless I'm can take that next step so
I don't know what what it is in five to ten years but I just want to look back and know that like I put my best foot forward and put all the work in so whatever happens I can live with as long as I did it my way and so that's the most important thing to me
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
31,099
What am I missing? it looks like the C's picked up the option for next season at a hair over $4MM:

Payton Pritchard

  • 2023-24 option exercised October 29, 2022.
  • 2022-23 option exercised November 1, 2021.
  • 2022-23 and 2023-24 are team options.
  • Signed rookie scale contract on November 24, 2020.
Salary:
  • 22-23: $2,239,200
  • 23-24: $4,037,277
https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/BOS.html

(edit: nice tables disappeared when I posted... making it as legible as I can quickly)
It means that he can/will request a trade following the season if he’s still here past the deadline. This is where an agents value comes into play and where they earn their money.


I just don't get how you'd assume you know what motivates PP. Are you buds and he's told you he wants to "get paid"? There's a very real chance that he's just a highly motivated and competitive guy who wants to play a bigger role, because that's what he's spent most of his life trying to become.

Maybe most guys just want to get paid, but let's not assume we know what motivates individuals.
Wanting a larger role and getting paid aren’t mutually exclusive. Actually the large majority of times they are aligned together especially when you’re facing your first post-rookie contract.
 

tbrown_01923

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 29, 2006
802
It means that he can/will request a trade following the season if he’s still here past the deadline. This is where an agents value comes into play and where they earn their money.
I don't disagree.

maybe they have started those conversations already. Either with respect to being potentially on the move this deadline or over the summer. $4mm matches a lot more than $2mm (either alone or in aggregate) - so probably not until this summer unless they see an equivalent depth ball handler available (to add along with whoever they would acquire at the deadline. I doubt they target depth ball handler with pritch).
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,961
Santa Monica
It means that he can/will request a trade following the season if he’s still here past the deadline. This is where an agents value comes into play and where they earn their money.



Wanting a larger role and getting paid aren’t mutually exclusive. Actually the large majority of times they are aligned together especially when you’re facing your first post-rookie contract.
Agreed.

PP's agent has been working the ESPN trade machine since the day Brad added Malcolm Brogdon.
and wore down the keys when Hauser was getting more minutes earlier this season.

I'm pretty sure he has been back-channeling league-wide and implying what PP wants in an extension this Summer (the cheaper the extension, the more likely he'll be traded for)

It's the ABCs of being an NBA Agent. I think some people assume an Agent shows up every 4 years, negotiates a MAX deal, & heads over to Bel-Air CC for 18 holes with margaritas lined up at the turn.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
18,535
I just don't get how you'd assume you know what motivates PP. Are you buds and he's told you he wants to "get paid"? There's a very real chance that he's just a highly motivated and competitive guy who wants to play a bigger role, because that's what he's spent most of his life trying to become.

Maybe most guys just want to get paid, but let's not assume we know what motivates individuals.
Not sure how you get the above from my post, but whatever....

What I do know is that for a rookie scale player like Pritchard, his upcoming RFA is his big chance to get paid. Waiting too long for the big payday poses obvious risks to PP. And collecting the counting stats, especially pointz and minutes, is helpful to getting paid as an RFA.

Now maybe Pritchard would prefer to stay with the Celtics and is willing to take a "home town discount". But as a highly competitive athlete he probably perceives his own ceiling to be a lot higher than what his current role is on the Celtics, a role that is much reduced from last season's, where he was "good enough" to be a key rotation player on a team that went to the Finals. So there could indeed be opposition between his own goals and the team's, especially when looking forward to next season.

His interview could have been his own words about how he feels. Or they could be very carefully agent-crafted messaging to give teams notice that he is looking for them to come calling.
 

Imbricus

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 26, 2017
4,937
Yup, Payton will be on the move this off season. He's now being openly unhappy about his diminished role with these comments following the passing of the trade deadline:

“I definitely was expecting and hoping for a trade,” Pritchard said. “But you know, I have to look at the good things. We’re the best team in the NBA right now and we have a great team with really great players, so for me it’s an opportunity to learn and keep growing.”
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
13,412
Yup, Payton will be on the move this off season. He's now being openly unhappy about his diminished role with these comments following the passing of the trade deadline:
I mean, they need to get more value for him in the offseason than they'd get from paying him $4M to be a good backup. That's tough to find.

The thing that sucks for PP is the Celtics are a perfect team for him: lots of primary initiators and big defenders at other positions, so he can play small SG, which is probably his best position.

Brad just clearly dislikes guys who are less than 6'4" (at least in wingspan terms), so PP is stuck as an Ainge legacy.
 

Imbricus

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 26, 2017
4,937
I mean, they need to get more value for him in the offseason than they'd get from paying him $4M to be a good backup. That's tough to find.

The thing that sucks for PP is the Celtics are a perfect team for him: lots of primary initiators and big defenders at other positions, so he can play small SG, which is probably his best position.

Brad just clearly dislikes guys who are less than 6'4" (at least in wingspan terms), so PP is stuck as an Ainge legacy.
There's a chance that Brad just does him a solid, with the kid entering his last year under team control. Also, teams were making inquiries about him, so maybe he could be flipped for another cost-controlled young player (wing? big?).

Davison/Begarin should be ready to pick up his small minutes next season. Pritch seems to be one of the clear victims of the Celtics "switch everything" defensive scheme; obviously players need to be at least 6' 4" or 6' 5" to succeed in those (unless you're built like a tank, like Marcus). I'm a Pritchard fan, and I think he'll do well elsewhere and even has a chance to develop into a starter on one of the bottom-13 NBA teams.
 

bankshot1

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 12, 2003
25,136
where I was last at
I like PP, IMO he brings enough energy and outside shooting to a team that too often lapses into lethargy, to offset the size/D issue. And in Smart's absence I think his value has risen, but barring injuries, as long as Marcus, Derek and Bro are wearing Green, PP will remain mostly a well-paid cheerleader.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
18,535
I have enough confidence in Brad to believe that if there was a real risk of Pritchard's unhappiness being a real problem for the team, he would have been dealt at the deadline. But I think PP realizes that being a malcontent now is not going to help him, and that there will be another opportunity to move in the offseason.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,961
Santa Monica
I mean, they need to get more value for him in the offseason than they'd get from paying him $4M to be a good backup. That's tough to find.

The thing that sucks for PP is the Celtics are a perfect team for him: lots of primary initiators and big defenders at other positions, so he can play small SG, which is probably his best position.

Brad just clearly dislikes guys who are less than 6'4" (at least in wingspan terms), so PP is stuck as an Ainge legacy.
Since Danny gave away Vanderbilt for next to nothing, I wonder if there were any PP for Vanderbilt discussions?

The Lakers are going to love JVs energy/dirty work, even after Game 1 they were talking about it.

I'd expect PP+Gallo to be packaged this Summer.
 

PedrosRedGlove

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 5, 2005
670
I like PP, IMO he brings enough energy and outside shooting to a team that too often lapses into lethargy, to offset the size/D issue. And in Smart's absence I think his value has risen, but barring injuries, as long as Marcus, Derek and Bro are wearing Green, PP will remain mostly a well-paid cheerleader.
I think this is the crux of it, he's a good player but he just doesn't seem to be good enough to fill the 3rd small guard role on a true Contender.

I like Pritchard a lot too but I think it's more than just the size/switch everything issue at this point. He was really exposed in the Finals against Golden State last year and that seems to have spiraled with his reduced playing time this year. (I can't remember the exact circumstances but he also disappeared in the Miami series as well, averaging over 22mpg for the first 4 games and then 4mpg for the final 3) Hopefully he can re-focus and finish strong, shooting .330 from deep isn't helping the Celtics' cause or his trade value very much right now.
 

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
8,704
Imaginationland
I think this is the crux of it, he's a good player but he just doesn't seem to be good enough to fill the 3rd small guard role on a true Contender.

I like Pritchard a lot too but I think it's more than just the size/switch everything issue at this point. He was really exposed in the Finals against Golden State last year and that seems to have spiraled with his reduced playing time this year. (I can't remember the exact circumstances but he also disappeared in the Miami series as well, averaging over 22mpg for the first 4 games and then 4mpg for the final 3) Hopefully he can re-focus and finish strong, shooting .330 from deep isn't helping the Celtics' cause or his trade value very much right now.
As is mostly the case for this year, Pritchard didn't disappear in the Miami series, better guys just showed up. Smart missed game 1, White missed game 2, then Smart missed game 4. In that series when both Smart/White played, Pritchard averaged just over 6 mpg, and when one of them didn't, he averaged about 26 mpg.
 

DGreenwood

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 2, 2003
2,510
Seattle
I'd expect PP+Gallo to be packaged this Summer.
Gallo is on a player option next year. The only way I see him exercising it is if he wants to be with the Celtics and has assurances that there's a role for him, otherwise he just declines it, right?
 

gammoseditor

also had a stroke
SoSH Member
Jul 17, 2005
4,309
Somerville, MA
This is an unpopular opinion but I don’t think he’s very good and I don’t think there are any teams that would give him consistent minutes. His ball handling and passing aren’t good enough for an undersized guard. His shooting is inconsistent. He will make the occasional highlight hussle play that gets everyone excited but the negatives far outweigh the positives.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
49,861
This is an unpopular opinion but I don’t think he’s very good and I don’t think there are any teams that would give him consistent minutes. His ball handling and passing aren’t good enough for an undersized guard. His shooting is inconsistent. He will make the occasional highlight hussle play that gets everyone excited but the negatives far outweigh the positives.
This is fair though I tend to look at players in terms of how their flaws impact their playability.

Pritchard does a lot of things reasonably well but like a semi-skilled big, he is only effective in certain matchups and along side specific types of players. Pun intended, in short PP has limited uses cases.

That doesn't mean that Pritchard can't get more minutes elsewhere - I would not be surprised if he does- but I also think he is going to face the same battles he's had as a Celtic. He isn't a good enough player overall (yet and perhaps he never will develop into one) to overcome his other negatives.
 

radsoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 9, 2009
14,036
And play better.
For sure. A bit of a chicken or the egg scenario with improved depth this season and fewer minutes for him... but he has just not been good this year. If he was playing like this his rookie season he would be simply considered a bust.

I don't blame him for wanting to move on as he needs to prove he is a rotation player to get another contract but not sure his candor is particularly helpful at the moment. He could have said the second part without saying he was "hoping for a trade".
 

TripleOT

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2007
8,114
This is fair though I tend to look at players in terms of how their flaws impact their playability.

Pritchard does a lot of things reasonably well but like a semi-skilled big, he is only effective in certain matchups and along side specific types of players. Pun intended, in short PP has limited uses cases.

That doesn't mean that Pritchard can't get more minutes elsewhere - I would not be surprised if he does- but I also think he is going to face the same battles he's had as a Celtic.
If Pritchard was on a bad team, he certainly would be capable of putting up decent numbers. Once Brodgon was acquired, and Hauser showed enough defensive moxie to claim the designated shooter bench role, PP’s fate was set. His response to being slotted as a spare rotation part has not been good. A Pritchard shooting only 33% from three isn’t a rotation player on a contender. He might not even be a rotation guy on a bad team.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
31,207
I don't mind the honesty. Like Debrusk, he didnt rip anyone or come off like a petulant POS. He's not claiming fake injuries as a protest. He played hard, as usual, after not being traded.
His teammates and coaches, the *only* constituents who matter, get it.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,961
Santa Monica
Gallo is on a player option next year. The only way I see him exercising it is if he wants to be with the Celtics and has assurances that there's a role for him, otherwise he just declines it, right?
He's 34 and he just missed an entire season to get surgery on a bum knee. He was a bad defender before. I'm skeptical there will be NBA teams lining up for DG. But if there are, great. I imagine he'd make Blake look spry on D.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
31,741
This is an unpopular opinion but I don’t think he’s very good and I don’t think there are any teams that would give him consistent minutes. His ball handling and passing aren’t good enough for an undersized guard. His shooting is inconsistent. He will make the occasional highlight hussle play that gets everyone excited but the negatives far outweigh the positives.
As for your overall part, I think stating that there aren't any teams that would give him consistent minutes is too strong. I agree that there aren't many, but there doesn't need to be many, there just has to be a couple and I don't know if there might be a GM out there that wants to play him consistently.

I think his handles is fine and his shooting will get better with consistent minutes but his biggest problem to me is his passing. I agree with you and don't think he sees the court well enough to be a true PG and that's typically something that isn't going to get better at his age.

I'm sure PP "knows" he can play in the NBA and just wants a chance to prove it. I'm rooting for him. I also think there's a pretty high likelihood he ends up being a legend in one of the overseas leagues too.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
31,099
Since Danny gave away Vanderbilt for next to nothing, I wonder if there were any PP for Vanderbilt discussions?

The Lakers are going to love JVs energy/dirty work, even after Game 1 they were talking about it.

I'd expect PP+Gallo to be packaged this Summer.
I’m a big Vanderbilt guy but trading one unhappy rookie contract guy who needs playing time prior to hitting the FA market for another in the identical boat doesn’t accomplish much.
As for your overall part, I think stating that there aren't any teams that would give him consistent minutes is too strong. I agree that there aren't many, but there doesn't need to be many, there just has to be a couple and I don't know if there might be a GM out there that wants to play him consistently.

I think his handles is fine and his shooting will get better with consistent minutes but his biggest problem to me is his passing. I agree with you and don't think he sees the court well enough to be a true PG and that's typically something that isn't going to get better at his age.

I'm sure PP "knows" he can play in the NBA and just wants a chance to prove it. I'm rooting for him. I also think there's a pretty high likelihood he ends up being a legend in one of the overseas leagues too.
i don’t see any reason why he can’t be a 4th guard on many teams over the next couple years until he loses a step but nobody is going to give up anything of value for a player such as this with the upside so low. I’m sure his agent will force a move over the summer and hopefully he plays well enough to earn a decent 2-3 year deal for a couple mill more than what he makes now. It will likely be his one chance at some decent money.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,961
Santa Monica
I’m a big Vanderbilt guy but trading one unhappy rookie contract guy who needs playing time prior to hitting the FA market for another in the identical boat doesn’t accomplish much.
JV would have been a nice wiry defensive athlete to throw at 4s (and potentially Giannis over a long series). Plus saving Tatum/Brown regular season defensive wear and tear.

At the end of the day, we both wanted a BIG (TL/Al Insurance + shrink-wrapping). Muscala was an excellent option.

I like Payton but he literally has no role on this team. 3 much better PGs and Hauser is a better off-ball shooter/defender.
 

NomarsFool

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 21, 2001
8,636
Trading PP for a similarly valuable wing or big on a team that has a lot of wings or bigs seems like a win win for everyone. I don’t know that there is that player/situation, but I’d imagine that is what the Celtics will be looking in to.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
31,099
Trading PP for a similarly valuable wing or big on a team that has a lot of wings or bigs seems like a win win for everyone. I don’t know that there is that player/situation, but I’d imagine that is what the Celtics will be looking in to.
I doubt we would get anything more than a mid-2nd rounder. He’s a limited guy on an expiring contract this summer.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
13,412
I doubt we would get anything more than a mid-2nd rounder. He’s a limited guy on an expiring contract this summer.
Which is why I think they'll just keep him next year. I don't think he'll cause TRozzay type locker room problems, and he has more value as a backup than they'd be able to acquire for a bad 2nd rounder.

Keep him one more season, then go with God in 2024.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
31,099
Which is why I think they'll just keep him next year. I don't think he'll cause TRozzay type locker room problems, and he has more value as a backup than they'd be able to acquire for a bad 2nd rounder.

Keep him one more season, then go with God in 2024.
I said this last week but this is where agents earn their 4%. So far, his hasn’t done a good job. If he doesn’t by early summer I’d expect PP to switch to someone who can get it done.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
13,412
I said this last week but this is where agents earn their 4%. So far, his hasn’t done a good job. If he doesn’t by early summer I’d expect PP to switch to someone who can get it done.
What's the agent's leverage? Tell PP to start taking dumps in teammates' lockers?

TRo at least had some leverage because he was playing real minutes, so could just chuck and piss people off in those.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
31,099
What's the agent's leverage? Tell PP to start taking dumps in teammates' lockers?

TRo at least had some leverage because he was playing real minutes, so could just chuck and piss people off in those.
It’s the agents job to create it. Happens all the time especially by the elite ones.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,961
Santa Monica
I doubt we would get anything more than a mid-2nd rounder. He’s a limited guy on an expiring contract this summer.
His agent should be calling 1-800-DANNYRA, PDX (local hero)
then the stinkers: Spurs, Hornets, Pacers, Rockets, Pistons
or find a team with a surplus of veteran 4/5s

PP comes with plenty of playoff experience, 40% 3pt shooter, 1 cheap yr left + RFA
 

ZMart100

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 15, 2008
3,251
I would have no problem doing PP a solid in the offseason and trading him for little return. The Cs can probably find a vet-min replacement who will provide most of his value in the limited minutes available.
 

TripleOT

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2007
8,114
Yes, it was probably his fault that Tatum had a poor finals.
Not PP’s fault alone, but the Celtics’ bench lost the bench battle in the finals. Despite Tatum’s struggles, if the Celtics bench held their own in the finals, they’d be trying to go back to back this season. This season’s bench shouldn’t be at a disadvantage against any playoff matchup. A lineup of Brodgon, White, Grant Williams, Hauser, and Muscala as starters might be better than a couple of bottom teams.
 

Eddie Jurak

canderson-lite
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
45,382
Melrose, MA
Not PP’s fault alone, but the Celtics’ bench lost the bench battle in the finals. Despite Tatum’s struggles, if the Celtics bench held their own in the finals, they’d be trying to go back to back this season. This season’s bench shouldn’t be at a disadvantage against any playoff matchup. A lineup of Brodgon, White, Grant Williams, Hauser, and Muscala as starters might be better than a couple of bottom teams.
That hardly warrants the conclusion that they lost because of Pritchard (i.e. "not good enough to be the third guard oin a contender"). He came 2 wins away from doing exactly that, and I hardly think it makes sense to blame the series on him.
 

TripleOT

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2007
8,114
That hardly warrants the conclusion that they lost because of Pritchard (i.e. "not good enough to be the third guard oin a contender"). He came 2 wins away from doing exactly that, and I hardly think it makes sense to blame the series on him.
He was not good enough to be the fourth guard on a contender, and that’s one of the reasons why the Celtics traded for Brogdon.
 

Eddie Jurak

canderson-lite
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
45,382
Melrose, MA
…..and didn’t win a title so the rotation was upgraded. This is common.
Which is taking an issue with something I never said.

It's not fair to say a team with Pritchard in the rotation cannot be a title contender because one already has been. Period. End of story.

Edit: I think the Celtics would have won last year but for Rob's injury.
 

gammoseditor

also had a stroke
SoSH Member
Jul 17, 2005
4,309
Somerville, MA
Which is taking an issue with something I never said.

It's not fair to say a team with Pritchard in the rotation cannot be a title contender because one already has been. Period. End of story.

Edit: I think the Celtics would have won last year but for Rob's injury.
If your superstars are good enough the 8th and 9th guys matter less, but they still matter. It’s fair to say it’s possible to be a contender with Pritchard as the 8th/9th man. It’s also fair to say if you are a contender you don’t want Pritchard in your rotation.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
31,099
Which is taking an issue with something I never said.

It's not fair to say a team with Pritchard in the rotation cannot be a title contender because one already has been. Period. End of story.

Edit: I think the Celtics would have won last year but for Rob's injury.
Now we are jumbling words. Sure….you can put JD in the rotation with Booker, Durant, and Paul and use this as evidence that he’s a rotation player on a contender. Phrased better….there isn’t a single contender who would be satisfied and content with Pritchard in their rotation.
 

128

Member
SoSH Member
May 4, 2019
10,321
Hard to watch this game today and come away thinking Pritchard could not be an NBA rotation player.