Payton Pritchard: Season Savior

[RetractableRoof]

The "that's what I do" roar - I want to know who that was for. Everyone keeps saying it was towards the bench, and maybe so. But also standing between the him and the bench was Portis. I wonder if in the prior couple of trips down the court on the defensive end if Portis had scored over PP and let him know "that's what I do" in a bit of trash talk. The way I read it, the roar was a bit too emphatic in the context of the game at that moment, perhaps as a bit of a dagger maybe - but to me it was reminiscent of the primal roar of Horford after the dunk on GA in the Horford game.

In the end it doesn't matter, but I'd love someone to ask him about it.

 

[senormarkymark]

The "that's what I do" roar - I want to know who that was for. Everyone keeps saying it was towards the bench, and maybe so. But also standing between the him and the bench was Portis. I wonder if in the prior couple of trips down the court on the defensive end if Portis had scored over PP and let him know "that's what I do" in a bit of trash talk. The way I read it, the roar was a bit too emphatic in the context of the game at that moment, perhaps as a bit of a dagger maybe - but to me it was reminiscent of the primal roar of Horford after the dunk on GA in the Horford game.

In the end it doesn't matter, but I'd love someone to ask him about it.

inspecting the video, it was totally directed at Portis. nice catch. PP is an awesome part of this Celts team.

 

[the moops]

inspecting the video, it was totally directed at Portis. nice catch. PP is an awesome part of this Celts team.

Yea, I am curious what Portis had said to him. Probably something like "what the fuck are you doing out here little man".

I have grown to like Portis though. That dude plays hard and has just the right amount of crazy in him. Wonder where he will be next year and at what price.

 

[joe dokes]

Yea, I am curious what Portis had said to him. Probably something like "what the fuck are you doing out here little man".

I have grown to like Portis though. That dude plays hard and has just the right amount of crazy in him. Wonder where he will be next year and at what price.

Portis give me the good Marcus Morris vibe. There's value in that.

 

[Light-Tower-Power]

I wonder if Niko Mirotic thinks Portis has the right amount of crazy in him or if it's maybe a little too much.

 

[lovegtm]

I wonder if Niko Mirotic thinks Portis has the right amount of crazy in him or if it's maybe a little too much.

One has an NBA title and one plays for Barcelona now, so I guess Crazy Bob's approach worked out alright.

 

[Smokey Joe]

One has an NBA title and one plays for Barcelona now, so I guess Crazy Bob's approach worked out alright.

And the Chicago Bulls won what? It’s a team game and you are supposed to avoid sending your teammates to the hospital. I would prefer to pass on Portis.

Besides one is in Barcelona and the other in Milwaukee, so I guess Niko’s approach worked out pretty well for him.

 

[Kliq]

And the Chicago Bulls won what? It’s a team game and you are supposed to avoid sending your teammates to the hospital. I would prefer to pass on Portis.

Besides one is in Barcelona and the other in Milwaukee, so I guess Niko’s approach worked out pretty well for him.

And if IIRC, Mirotic had plenty of options to play in the NBA but wanted to go back to Europe. He could easily be on a playoff team at the moment if he stuck around.

 

[Euclis20]

He averaged 15 and 7 in back to back years (ages 26 and 27) while hitting 37% of his 3s at high volume as a 6'10 power forward. He absolutely would have a spot in someone's playoff rotation if he wanted to, he might still have more value than Portis.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

And the Chicago Bulls won what? It’s a team game and you are supposed to avoid sending your teammates to the hospital. I would prefer to pass on Portis.

Besides one is in Barcelona and the other in Milwaukee, so I guess Niko’s approach worked out pretty well for him.

He's own a bunch of titles and awards too. Granted, not NBA.

He's doing ok. https://www.euroleaguebasketball.net/euroleague/news/signature-star-nikola-mirotic-barcelona/

 

[128]

Good read on The Pritch:

https://www.johncanzano.com/p/canzano-payton-pritchard-is-doing?s=r

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Besides one is in Barcelona and the other in Milwaukee, so I guess Niko’s approach worked out pretty well for him.

One lost to PP, and the other lost to Yabu/Poirier. Which is worse?

 

[Smokey Joe]

One lost to PP, and the other lost to Yabu/Poirier. Which is worse?

I think I’d rather drink to forget in Barcelona then in Milwaukee.

 

[Minneapolis Millers]

I think I’d rather drink to forget in Barcelona then in Milwaukee.

They’re both waterfront cities. Do you need salt air? Want seafood with your beer, or cheese??

 

[Smokey Joe]

They’re both waterfront cities. Do you need salt air? Want seafood with your beer, or cheese??

I drink wine to forget.

 

[the moops]

Pritchard needs a new hair style.

 

[lovegtm]

One interesting thing to me in these playoffs is that PP has gone from "bench guy who can get hot" to "guy they'd play 30+ mins/night if it weren't for defensive issues."

His shooting unlocks a ton for Brown and Tatum, particularly when he's in screening action with them.

Curious as to whether he has a path forward defensively the next few years. Most 6-1 guys like that who end up as ok or good defenders do it by being really, really strong and getting under their man, while having enough lateral quickness to survive.

PP actually fits that profile ok; he'd just need to get stronger, which he seems to have the build for.

This post SHOULD NOT be taken as green glasses PP optimism. I'm just trying to think what he could do to stay on the floor more the next few years.

 

[amarshal2]

Agreed. And they also get very good at taking charges.

 

[lovegtm]

Agreed. And they also get very good at taking charges.

They do, although the charges are more of a nice to have. Kemba, for example, was great at taking charges, and awful at everything else.

(I know you're not saying that's all there is to it; just noting that you could probably be a very good defensive smaller guard without taking charges, and the reverse is also true.)

 

[benhogan]

One interesting thing to me in these playoffs is that PP has gone from "bench guy who can get hot" to "guy they'd play 30+ mins/night if it weren't for defensive issues."

His shooting unlocks a ton for Brown and Tatum, particularly when he's in screening action with them.

Curious as to whether he has a path forward defensively the next few years. Most 6-1 guys like that who end up as ok or good defenders do it by being really, really strong and getting under their man, while having enough lateral quickness to survive.

PP actually fits that profile ok; he'd just need to get stronger, which he seems to have the build for.

This post SHOULD NOT be taken as green glasses PP optimism. I'm just trying to think what he could do to stay on the floor more the next few years.

PP is the bench oven many had hoped Carsen would turn into. Opposing bench defenses/offenses are not as finely calibrated as starting units so I suspect Peyton can develop into an effective/efficient 8th man playing 20-25mpg.

I'd guess his max upside(1%) is Tyler Herro-lite bench shooter (who also takes advantage of playing against other bench players) in a few seasons.

13-14ppg/42% 3pt/25mpg has a small chance of happening if he continues to be post-Dennis Schroder Pritchard

 

[HomeRunBaker]

First PP was VanVleet……now he’s Herro, the Heat’s 20ppg scorer and one of their two best shot creators.

 

[benhogan]

First PP was VanVleet……now he’s Herro, the Heat’s 20ppg scorer and one of their two best shot creators.

Ha, I think I said 13ppg has a small chance of happening (as the 8th man)

I was using the Herro-lite example as guy that sucks at defense but has found a role that takes advantage of other bench units.

 

[bankshot1]

I think of PP more akin to Vinnie Johnson. Like the Microwave, PP may be the bench source of instant offense on a team built on D

 

[lovegtm]

I think of PP more akin to Vinnie Johnson. Like the Microwave, PP may be the bench source of instant offense on a team built on D

He's very different from that already, on the offensive end. He's a roleplaying elite shooter, not microwave 6th man offense. He's the opposite of a 6th man in a lot of ways--his game makes more sense playing off of the starters

The question I wanted to discuss wasn't his player comps, but how passable his defense could realistically get, given that he has already carved out a role offensively that isn't going away any time soon.

 

[bankshot1]

He's very different from that already, on the offensive end. He's a roleplaying elite shooter, not microwave 6th man offense. He's the opposite of a 6th man in a lot of ways--his game makes more sense playing off of the starters

The question I wanted to discuss wasn't his player comps, but how passable his defense could realistically get, given that he has already carved out a role offensively that isn't going away any time soon.

PP's strength right now is offense and not get hunted and roasted on D. Vinnie was the 3rd guard behind two great guards who's primary role was igniting the Pistons offense without getting burned on D. He was nowhere near the defensive player of the players he subbed for (IT or Dumars), on a team who's real strength was a bruising tough D.. (like the current Celts) That was the larger context of the Vinnie/PP comp and their roles.

 

[benhogan]

He's very different from that already, on the offensive end. He's a roleplaying elite shooter, not microwave 6th man offense. He's the opposite of a 6th man in a lot of ways--his game makes more sense playing off of the starters

The question I wanted to discuss wasn't his player comps, but how passable his defense could realistically get, given that he has already carved out a role offensively that isn't going away any time soon.

You only want PP on the floor if he's a top 2 or 3 offensive option because the downgrade on defense isn't worth it. So if one of the JAYs is sitting great. I can't see him getting to 30mpg or starting with White/Smart on the roster

Then again if he is the best 3pt shooter in the NBA (46% on 4.4 attempts/gm post-trade deadline) he'll warp defenses massively and it would be hard to keep him off the floor. Having knockdown 3pt shooters like PP and Grant when the JAYs get doubled is intoxicating

HRB took the 1% Tyler Herro-lite comment completely out of context, which I guess is expected

I'd guess his max upside(1%) is Tyler Herro-lite bench shooter (who also takes advantage of playing against other bench players) in a few seasons.

13-14ppg has a small chance of happening

 

[TheRooster]

I'm not exactly sure what his ceiling is, but I sure like his his 25/4 Ast/TO ratio in the playoffs. And both Ime and Tatum seem to trust him.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

I'm not exactly sure what his ceiling is, but I sure like his his 25/4 Ast/TO ratio in the playoffs. And both Ime and Tatum seem to trust him.

I'd guess he's close to it, though some team may give him more minutes. He can hit the 3 and he takes care of the ball, so he's going to be in the league for awhile. I'd guess he improves a little as a playmaker, too.

If' he is scoring 13 a game, he's probably closer to the 6th man or even a starter than he is the 8th man, though. He's not a traditional microwave type. He averaged 15.9 per 36 this year.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

You only want PP on the floor if he's a top 2 or 3 offensive option because the downgrade on defense isn't worth it. So if one of the JAYs is sitting great. I can't see him getting to 30mpg or starting with White/Smart on the roster

Then again if he is the best 3pt shooter in the NBA (46% on 4.4 attempts/gm post-trade deadline) he'll warp defenses massively and it would be hard to keep him off the floor. Having knockdown 3pt shooters like PP and Grant when the JAYs get doubled is intoxicating

HRB took the 1% Tyler Herro-lite comment completely out of context, which I guess is expected

Did you turn off your “fun detector” this morning?

 

[benhogan]

Did you turn off your “fun detector” this morning?

game day stress

There are good odds that sometime next season I'll have some nitwit around here tell me that I called PP the next Tyler Herro

PP can be a good rotational role player whose upside is a Chris Ford level scorer, which I'd gladly take.

Payton is over 41% from 3 his first 2 seasons, he should have the greenest of green lights from 3...Just think the best way to use him is against other teams 2nd stringers when his D won't get as exploited (like TH)

 

[lovegtm]

PP is going to play a lot in this series. The Warriors don't really have anyone to post him (the Iggy fadeaway was just sad), and he has the lateral quickness to not be a 1-on-1 mismatch against Steph.

I guess the Warriors could try to get Klay post fadeaways against him, but the Celtics would happily let Klay get 30 points on 11-25 shooting if the Warriors let their offense devolve to those kind of postups (they won't, because Kerr isn't dumb).

 

[Imbricus]

Nice article about PP in the New York Times.

I found this part the most interesting, after the Times said Pritchard had some "difficult conversations" with Udoka early in the season, when he was buried on the bench:

“I asked him at one point if he ever sees me playing here. Am I good enough to play?” Pritchard said. “I believed in myself. I was always good enough. But is this the right fit? He just reassured me, and the trade deadline happened. And then the opportunity came.”

You figure a lot of second-year guys might just quietly accept getting relegated to a deep bench role. Sounds like PP was making a little noise though. So you have to wonder how much that was going through Brad's mind as he shuffled the pieces at the trade deadline (and did a helluva job, landing White and shedding Richardson and Schroder, who just didn't fit what the Celtics needed.)

Incidentally, I love Brad as a GM. I think this, more than coach, is the role he was really born for.

 

[dhellers]

game day stress

There are good odds that sometime next season I'll have some nitwit around here tell me that I called PP the next Tyler Herro

PP can be a good rotational role player whose upside is a Chris Ford level scorer, which I'd gladly take.

Payton is over 41% from 3 his first 2 seasons, he should have the greenest of green lights from 3...Just think the best way to use him is against other teams 2nd stringers when his D won't get as exploited (like TH)

Why can't PP be better then Herro? His D already is.

 

[slamminsammya]

Why can't PP be better then Herro? His D already is.

I can't see PP ever being able to create his own shot the way Herro can due to his physical limitations.

 

[benhogan]

Why can't PP be better then Herro? His D already is.

Ha, mostly length and being able to get his shot off as a primary scorer which is what Tyler Herro is on Miami.

20ppg is next to impossible for PP, since the shots and role aren't there. PP could probably put up POINTZ on a lottery team but on the Celtics he's a good role player

 

[Euclis20]

Ha, mostly length and being able to get his shot off as a primary scorer which is what Tyler Herro is on Miami.

20ppg is next to impossible for PP, since the shots and role aren't there. PP could probably put up POINTZ on a lottery team but on the Celtics he's a good role player

Herro is quicker and has a lot more bounce than Pritchard, but ironically has a shorter wingspan. Pritchard is 6'4.5, Herro is 6'3. Herro likely still has a taller standing reach as he's 4 inches taller, but he definitely plays shorter than his size.

 

[lovegtm]

I can't see PP ever being able to create his own shot the way Herro can due to his physical limitations.

Yeah, shot creation is the premium skill, and why Herro will get paid a lot more than even the best version of PP can ever dream.

Specifically for playing with the Jays, the best version of PP might be better, especially adjusted for cost. The best version of Desmond Bane would have been better still, but, alas...

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Herro is quicker and has a lot more bounce than Pritchard, but ironically has a shorter wingspan. Pritchard is 6'4.5, Herro is 6'3. Herro likely still has a taller standing reach as he's 4 inches taller, but he definitely plays shorter than his size.

Who are you referring to? You mean Herro plays taller than his size due to his athleticism that allows him to play above the rim at times, right? He’s one of the better rebounding guards in the league bc he plays bigger than his number.

 

[Euclis20]

Who are you referring to? You mean Herro plays taller than his size due to his athleticism that allows him to play above the rim at times, right? He’s one of the better rebounding guards in the league bc he plays bigger than his number.

I was referring to Herro, but I guess it depends on what's happening. Everyone laughed when Pritchard gave Herro the "too small" talk, but he wasn't wrong - defensively at least, he doesn't play like an athletic 6'5 wing, and it's in part because he's got alligator arms.

 

[Spelunker]

Peyton Pixels

View: https://twitter.com/rynprry/status/1533630693208727553?

 

[bakahump]

Maybe we should rename him the Payton Predator-chard

 

[benhogan]

I like the idea of Payton Pritchard using his quickness/energy to pick up fullcourt

from the Athletic
https://theathletic.com/4115186/2023/01/23/celtics-payton-pritchard/?source=dailyemail&campaign=601983

With about 10 minutes left in Saturday’s game, the Raptors called on a lineup that could have meant trouble for Payton Pritchard. Missing the injured Fred VanVleet, they decided not to use a point guard at all. Their smallest player on the court, Gary Trent Jr., was a physical, 6-foot-5 wing. Everyone else on the court for Toronto stood at least 6-foot-8. With so much size on the other side, Pritchard had nowhere to hide. Who would he guard? Who could he guard?

The Celtics didn’t hide Pritchard at all. They put him front and center. On the first possession with that group on the court, Pritchard picked up the 6-foot-9 Scottie Barnes as soon as the Raptors inbounded the ball. Barnes, playing the role of point guard on that play, had serious trouble initiating the offense because of Pritchard’s full-court pressure. Pritchard nearly stripped Barnes at one point before forcing Barnes to pick up his dribble and throw the ball to his nearest teammate

Pritchard didn’t allow the Raptors to use their size against him. He played all but two seconds of the fourth quarter as the Celtics held Toronto to 19 points in the frame. Energized by his ball pressure, Boston forced five turnovers in the quarter, punishing the Raptors for their lack of a real point guard.

One reason Pritchard has taken over some of Sam Hauser’s minutes lately: The Celtics have been able to defend at a high level even while downsizing in the second unit backcourt. Over 152 minutes with Pritchard and Malcolm Brogdon on the court, the Celtics have allowed just 106.6 points per 100 possessions, a mark that would lead the league over the full season. That’s a small sample size but a promising one nonetheless. To earn minutes off the bench, Pritchard will need to continue excelling alongside Brogdon.

More than half of the minutes for that duo have come over the last six games. During that stretch, Pritchard has taken advantage of an opportunity to climb Hauser in the rotation. With Hauser’s shot still missing and other teams hunting him on defense, the Celtics have gone away from him entirely. The last two games have resulted in his first two DNP-CDs of the season. Even with Jayson Tatum out and a number of other regulars injured against the Raptors, Hauser didn’t get off the bench against them.

With Pritchard in those second-unit groups instead, the Celtics are a bit different. Smaller. Faster. They ramped up the defensive pressure to change a recent game against Brooklyn. They did the same thing against Toronto even on a night Boston ended the game with four regulars, including three usual starters, unable to play. Pritchard won’t play every night when the Celtics are fully healthy. He didn’t play at all during the win against Golden State on Thursday. Still, there’s a path to semi-consistent playing time for him if Boston’s defense continues to thrive with him on the court.

 

[DJnVa]

Payton Pritchard Sounds Like He's Very Ready To Leave Celtics (nesn.com)

Pritchard still has one more season left on his rookie contract, but the way the 25-year-old talked about his Celtics tenure on a recent “Point Forward” podcast appearance suggests his days in Boston are numbered.

“Obviously after I’m done here, after this year, I’d like to look — be a part of a bigger role a little bit,” Pritchard told hosts Evan Turner and Andre Iguodala, as transcribed by WEEI. “Brad (Stevens) and them know, too. We’ve had that discussion but — a bigger role. I want to be part of a winning culture, but I want to also help that, be a really big piece of that. I’m not saying it’s the best player on the team, but I don’t know what my future holds unless I can take that next step.”

 

[tbrown_01923]

What am I missing? it looks like the C's picked up the option for next season at a hair over $4MM:

Payton Pritchard

• 2023-24 option exercised October 29, 2022.
• 2022-23 option exercised November 1, 2021.
• 2022-23 and 2023-24 are team options.
• Signed rookie scale contract on November 24, 2020.

Salary:

• 22-23: $2,239,200
• 23-24: $4,037,277

https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/BOS.html

(edit: nice tables disappeared when I posted... making it as legible as I can quickly)

 

[benhogan]

Plus he hits RFA after that.

1. Payton probably hears the trade rumors Or
2. his agent is actively involved w/Brad in trying to get him moved Or
3. this is a low-key way of asking to be traded

 

[lexrageorge]

Pritchard seems to be hoping to have a more substantial role on the team after this season. So, he wants to stay for this season (a ring would be nice), but next season he wants playing time, which makes sense given that he would be in RFA in the summer of 2024 and wants to get paid. My working assumption is that he is part of a trade package either at the deadline or in the offseason regardless of his comments.

 

[benhogan]

Pritchard seems to be hoping to have a more substantial role on the team after this season. So, he wants to stay for this season (a ring would be nice), but next season he wants playing time, which makes sense given that he would be in RFA in the summer of 2024 and wants to get paid. My working assumption is that he is part of a trade package either at the deadline or in the offseason regardless of his comments.

If PP's agent backchannels that he'd sign a team-friendly extension this summer, I could see Danny or the Spurs wanting to add him in a trade.

 

[Saints Rest]

PP probably was/is hoping that his career arc would be something like Terry Rozier's. Through two years, PP was arguably putting together a stronger run than TR. But in year 3, PP has dropped to 4th on the ball handler depth chart while TR moved up to starter after Kyrie got hurt, and put together a strong playoff run.

 

[lovegtm]

He knows that he could play a lot more minutes on some other NBA teams, and he wants to play lots of minutes in the NBA while he still can, because it clearly means a lot to him as a peak life experience, and he'll make a lot more money.

I get it; it just sucks for him that it doesn't make sense for the Celtics to toss him away for nothing. It also sucks for him that Brad seems to philosophically not like small guards in team-building, for understandable reasons.

 

[Euclis20]

It really does suck. Through no real fault of his own, his minutes have fallen each year. He's a better defender than his size would suggest (and there's a real argument for him being the 4th best on the team at creating his own shot), but there are 3 combo guards on the roster who are all bigger, better playmakers and better defenders. Short of injury, he's scrapping for minutes with Hauser just as a second unit floor spacer and very occasional energy guy. At this point in his career, he deserves to be better than to be the 9th/10th/11th man (even on a title contender), but unfortunately for him, deserves got nothing to do with it.

*edit - I see the comparison with Rozier, both in terms of role and size (both are 6'1 and 195) and Pritchard has shown more (and is a far better shooter), but Terry is/was on another level in terms of potential. Terry isn't exactly Morant or Westbrook, but he's very athletic for his size and has a much longer wingspan. Even if Pritchard were to somehow have a playoff run like Rozier did in 2018 (not rooting for that because it likely means that 2 of Smart/White/Brogdon get hurt), he wouldn't get a deal like Terry did.